Cleveland Columnist Writes: [You Took] Our Team, How About Giving Us Your Quarterback?

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325100460' post='925248']

Well dang... That's just asinine!
[/quote]

Tell me about it. As if any team could get to the playoffs four years in a row with our less than dominant defense (especially last year) and average QB play. But according to some, Flacco just fell into the perfect situation for an average QB to thrive and appear well above average. What a blessing for Flacco, he's just so darn lucky!

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325100460' post='925248']

Well dang... That's just asinine!
[/quote]

Basically his point is Joe Flacco is average (and I'd say that's RBates being "generous" in his opinion of Flacco). He's saying that there are a lot of qbs that could come in here and do the job Flacco does, so why not look for someone better. The point several of us have been trying to make is that earlier in the decade, everything about this team except maybe the receiving corps was better. Those defenses = better than this defense. That offensive line = better than this one. Todd Heap = better than Dickson and Pitta now. Jamal Lewis = better than Ray Rice. Ed Reed and Ray Lewis were still in their 20s. And yet there were still seasons where we finished below .500 and missed the playoffs, and I don't believe we even won a playoff game between 2001-2007. Only when Flacco got here did we start winning. So how come other "average/mediocre" qbs couldn't do the same? He still hasn't answered that question. His only response is to pretend that what we're saying is in fact, not true.

[JohnJohnson]

Well described Ravenslifer. And yes, I agree that RBates is probably being generous in his true opinion of Flacco. A lot of Flacco haters think he sucks. They think he's below average, not just average. They think that he's the reason that we don't go 15-1 or 16-0. A lot of them were saying that Josh Freeman was better after last season (lol).

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325102036' post='925264']
Well described Ravenslifer. And yes, I agree that RBates is probably being generous in his true opinion of Flacco. A lot of Flacco haters think he sucks. They think he's below average, not just average. They think that he's the reason that we don't go 15-1 or 16-0. A lot of them were saying that Josh Freeman was better after last season (lol).
[/quote]

I literally just posted something about Freeman. His rating this year - his 3rd year - is like 73 or 74, and has has 14 TDs to 19 INTs. Could you just imagine what some people here would be saying about Flacco if it was him? Yet almost everyone in Tampa Bay is blaming Morris, Greg Olson (OC), Alex Van Pelt (QB coach), his wide receivers (as if he didn't have Kellen Winslow Jr., Mike Williams - a guy everyone said was as talented as Dez Bryant, Aurellius Benn), and everyone but Freeman.

Same thing with Sanchez. If you go onto the Jets' boards (at least back in October/November when I was there) it was all Brian Schottenheimer, Sanchez's "old" receiving corps, no running game, injuries to the o-line, the list goes on and on.

And yet our quarterback is part of a team going to the playoffs for the fourth straight year, it seems like half the people here are interested in finding a replacement for him in next year's draft.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325102562' post='925275']

I literally just posted something about Freeman. His rating this year - his 3rd year - is like 73 or 74, and has has 14 TDs to 19 INTs. Could you just imagine what some people here would be saying about Flacco if it was him? Yet almost everyone in Tampa Bay is blaming Morris, Greg Olson (OC), Alex Van Pelt (QB coach), his wide receivers (as if he didn't have Kellen Winslow Jr., Mike Williams - a guy everyone said was as talented as Dez Bryant, Aurellius Benn), and everyone but Freeman.

Same thing with Sanchez. If you go onto the Jets' boards (at least back in October/November when I was there) it was all Brian Schottenheimer, Sanchez's "old" receiving corps, no running game, injuries to the o-line, the list goes on and on.

And yet our quarterback is part of a team going to the playoffs for the fourth straight year, it seems like half the people here are interested in finding a replacement for him in next year's draft.
[/quote]

Actually, I think that Jets fans are starting to sour on Sanchez. But yeah, a month ago and earlier they were still clinging to him. The difference between Sanchez and Flacco is that Flacco has shown steady improvement. Even this year, when his stats are down, you can see that he's a better QB. At worst he's an above average QB. At best? Nobody knows, because he still hasn't stopped improving.

The ironic thing is, the QBs we're comparing him to were supposed to start from day one. Flacco was supposed to sit for two years and develop, because he hadn't played in an offense that was friendly to the NFL transition. Yet, he's played more games to this point in his career than any QB ever has, and has outperformed a lot of top 5-10 draft picks. So the idea that he has enough experience because he's played for four years, and that he's as good as he's going to get, is ridiculous.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325103061' post='925284']

Actually, I think that Jets fans are starting to sour on Sanchez. But yeah, a month ago and earlier they were still clinging to him. The difference between Sanchez and Flacco is that Flacco has shown steady improvement. Even this year, when his stats are down, you can see that he's a better QB. At worst he's an above average QB. At best? Nobody knows, because he still hasn't stopped improving.

The ironic thing is, the QBs we're comparing him to were supposed to start from day one. Flacco was supposed to sit for two years and develop, because he hadn't played in an offense that was friendly to the NFL transition. Yet, he's played more games to this point in his career than any QB ever has, and has outperformed a lot of top 5-10 draft picks. So the idea that he has enough experience because he's played for four years, and[b] that he's as good as he's going to get[/b], is ridiculous.
[/quote]

Two words to that: Drew Brees. Two more words: Eli Manning. Actually, come to think about it, people in New York were treating Eli worse than this in his 4th year.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325103817' post='925294']

Two words to that: Drew Brees. Two more words: Eli Manning. Actually, come to think about it, people in New York were treating Eli worse than this in his 4th year.
[/quote]

Two more: Peyton Manning. Two more: Kurt Warner.

Eli Manning is probably the best comparison, because he kind of has a similar personality to Flacco. He was a #1 draft pick though, and came into the league a more developed player. So that just supports what we're saying even more, that Flacco will continue to develop.

Btw, there's nothing funnier to me than people who called Peyton Manning a "choker." After getting to his 2nd Super Bowl, people called him a choker for making one mistake at the end and not winning it. If there's one thing I've learned as I've gotten older, it's that many people are totally fine with making strong assertions about things that they know nothing about.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325104147' post='925300']

Two more: Peyton Manning. Two more: Kurt Warner.

Eli Manning is probably the best comparison, because he kind of has a similar personality to Flacco. He was a #1 draft pick though, and came into the league a more developed player. So that just supports what we're saying even more, that Flacco will continue to develop.

Btw, there's nothing funnier to me than people who called Peyton Manning a "choker." After getting to his 2nd Super Bowl, people called him a choker for making one mistake at the end and not winning it. If there's one thing I've learned as I've gotten older, it's that many people are totally fine with making [b]strong assertions about things that they know nothing about[/b].
[/quote]

Isn't that the truth. Really I blame the internet and all the free access to information. It's great, but you wouldn't believe how many times I've seen people come into a doctor's office after looking some symptoms up on WebMD or something and "self diagnosing". Then they say some ridiculous thing like "I have 3 symptoms of West Nile Virus, so I must have it." Some even come in with charts and diagrams - it would actually be pretty funny if they weren't so serious about it.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325104683' post='925311']

Isn't that the truth. Really I blame the internet and all the free access to information. It's great, but you wouldn't believe how many times I've seen people come into a doctor's office after looking some symptoms up on WebMD or something and "self diagnosing". Then they say some ridiculous thing like "I have 3 symptoms of West Nile Virus, so I must have it." Some even come in with charts and diagrams - it would actually be pretty funny if they weren't so serious about it.
[/quote]

There's so much information out there today, but information isn't useful unless you know how to interpret it. I often hear people say "there are lies, damned lies and statistics." People blame their own faulty inferences on statistics because they don't understand how to use them in context. It's people who lie and make false assertions, not numbers or facts. It was too funny listening to people complain about Flacco's completion percentage after half a season with an overhauled receiving corps, and completely ignoring his three previous years of solid statistics.

[OUravensfan]

Jamal was a better power back and certainly better at short yardage andnin his prime if he got on the secondary it was trouble; however rice is far more versatile and much better in the passing game

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='OUravensfan' timestamp='1325131618' post='925641']Jamal was a better power back and certainly better at short yardage andnin his prime if he got on the secondary it was trouble; however rice is far more versatile and [b]much better in the passing game[/b][/quote]

Jamal caught quite a few passes himself. Had almost 300 yards receiving his first year with us and 450 his second year. And remember, we had no 1000 yard receivers either, because we had squat at quarterback. Jeff Blake, Chris Redman, Kyle Boller, Anthony Wright. The best he got was maybe McNair, maybe Derek Anderson's probowl season in Cleveland. Joe is a much better quarterback than almost everyone Jamal ever had to work with. Jamal had no passing game outside of Todd Heap to take any sort of pressure off of him. Imagine Jamal's numbers out of the backfield if he did have Joe instead of Kyle Boller.

Here's a better comparison: for their careers, Ray Rice (so far) has averaged 9 yards per reception, and Jamal averaged 8.5. So I'd say their receiving skills were actually very similar.

Overall point: Jamal was at least as good as Rice is now for the Ravens. I'm going to say he was better, because he did it when we had no qb and no receiving threats besides Heap (who was also short-changed and took way too many hits). Defenses knew like 80 percent of the offense went through Jamal, and he still did it. Rice gets shut down a lot more than some people are willing to admit. With Jamal, and a better defense than we have now, and a better offensive line than we have now, we still missed the playoffs, with average quarterbacks at the helm. RBates seems to think Ozzie and the FO deliberately put scrubs in at quarterback - he's saying they were way below average types that shouldn't have even been starting. He does this to indicate that Flacco, a mediocre to average qb, is only succeeding here because of the defense and nothing else. Because if he is forced to admit that almost everything except maybe the receiving corps from year 3 onward was better from 2001-2007 than it was from 2008-2011, then he will be forced to admit that Flacco is in fact an above average starting qb. And if he does that, his argument is moot.

RBates wants Flacco gone. He believes Flacco is "average" and we can do better. His argument is that "any average qb" could come in here and succeed. My point is the front office tried it when we had a better defense, tried the average qb route, and they couldn't get the job done. So he's got to in some way prove either the qb's were really terrible or else something is better. He can't point out the defense. He can't point out the receivers until Q got here. And I don't see how he can make the case against Jamal not being at least as good, in my view better, than Rice. So with everything largely the same, Flacco was able to do more than what Ozzie's idea of an "average" qb could do, and yet he's not worth resigning and we should find someone else?

[Guest RBates]

Jamal a better back than RR? Again how can you compare the two they have to totally different skill sets. If i needed a thumper i take Jamal but more times than not i will take RR. He can do it all. Could you imagine the damage RR could do on the Colts with Manning or that Kurt Warner led St Louis Rams team..RR could start on any team in this league minus Minnesota.

Rbates wants Flacco gone? I called him average because that is how he is playing. Middle of the road football.
Kyle Boller was not average he was terrible that's why he is backing up Jason Campbell (an average QB) as we speak

Steve Mcnair was[b] about average[/b] by the time he got here to Baltimore. The only reason i say that is because his rushing ability was declining tremendously. To put it in perspective, minus the completion percentage, where Mcnair had a 63% to Flacco's 56.8% they are about even on the season, granted Flacco has more passing yards, he also has more turnovers. Steve was about average, the following year it was time to hang em up. See my point yet? Flacco is an Average quarterback that is really having a below average season. Just because he is the best Qb that we have ever had, does not excuse poor play. I know some of yall have yall number 5 jersey hung up waiting on game day. The facts are the facts people. Sorry.He has the tools and a front office that believes he can be better. Will he? Remains to be seen. Some will say its on Cam execution at the position is on the quarterback. Cam doesn't have one play, that says turn the ball over in his play book.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325165933' post='925817']
Jamal a better back than RR? Again how can you compare the two they have to totally different skill sets. If i needed a thumper i take Jamal but more times than not i will take RR. He can do it all. Could you imagine the damage RR could do on the Colts with Manning or that Kurt Warner led St Louis Rams team..RR could start on any team in this league minus Minnesota.

Rbates wants Flacco gone? I called him average because that is how he is playing. Middle of the road football.
Kyle Boller was not average he was terrible that's why he is backing up Jason Campbell (an average QB) as we speak

Steve Mcnair was[b] about average[/b] by the time he got here to Baltimore. The only reason i say that is because his rushing ability was declining tremendously. To put it in perspective, minus the completion percentage, where Mcnair had a 63% to Flacco's 56.8% they are about even on the season, granted Flacco has more passing yards, he also has more turnovers. Steve was about average, the following year it was time to hang em up. See my point yet? Flacco is an Average quarterback that is really having a below average season. Just because he is the best Qb that we have ever had, does not excuse poor play. [u][b] I know some of yall have yall number 5 jersey hung up waiting on game day[/b][/u]. The facts are the facts people. Sorry.He has the tools and a front office that believes he can be better. Will he? Remains to be seen. Some will say its on Cam execution at the position is on the quarterback. Cam doesn't have one play, that says turn the ball over in his play book.
[/quote]

i don't have a Flacco jersey! lol!

~Mili

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1325167249' post='925835']

i don't have a Flacco jersey! lol!

~Mili
[/quote]
Me either ....lol

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325165933' post='925817']
Jamal a better back than RR? Again how can you compare the two they have to totally different skill sets. If i needed a thumper i take Jamal but more times than not i will take RR. He can do it all. Could you imagine the damage RR could do on the Colts with Manning or that Kurt Warner led St Louis Rams team..RR could start on any team in this league minus Minnesota.

Rbates wants Flacco gone? I called him average because that is how he is playing. Middle of the road football.
Kyle Boller was not average he was terrible that's why he is backing up Jason Campbell (an average QB) as we speak

Steve Mcnair was[b] about average[/b] by the time he got here to Baltimore. The only reason i say that is because his rushing ability was declining tremendously. To put it in perspective, minus the completion percentage, where Mcnair had a 63% to Flacco's 56.8% they are about even on the season, granted Flacco has more passing yards, he also has more turnovers. Steve was about average, the following year it was time to hang em up. See my point yet?[b] Flacco is an Average quarterback that is really having a below average season. [/b]Just because he is the best Qb that we have ever had, does not excuse poor play. I know some of yall have yall number 5 jersey hung up waiting on game day. The facts are the facts people. Sorry.He has the tools and a front office that believes he can be better. Will he? Remains to be seen. Some will say its on Cam execution at the position is on the quarterback. Cam doesn't have one play, that says turn the ball over in his play book.
[/quote]

You still have not offered a single explanation as to Flacco's numbers last year, or in fact the year before. Both of those years were far superior to anything McNair did while in Baltimore. So by your very own definition, if McNair's season was average, then Flacco 2009 and 2010 was above average.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1325167249' post='925835'] i don't have a Flacco jersey! lol! ~Mili[/quote]

I don't own any Jerseys. Can't afford them.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325167731' post='925841']

You still have not offered a single explanation as to Flacco's numbers last year, or in fact the year before. Both of those years were far superior to anything McNair did while in Baltimore. So by your very own definition, if McNair's season was average, then Flacco 2009 and 2010 was above average.
[/quote]
i described Mcnair's season as [b]about average. [/b]The following year he was off the team.

He had the same year as Flacco this season. Im not interested in the past. I could care less. Moving forward, i worry about our current QB playing in the big games that we have on the schedule this year. Listen i know some of you are die hard Flacco fans and for the record seeing our history of QB's, i can't blame you. This discussion gets hard to have, if you can't see that he is having a below average season. So i guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325169113' post='925850']
i described Mcnair's season as [b]about average. [/b]The following year he was off the team.

He had the same year as Flacco this season. Im not interested in the past. I could care less. Moving forward, i worry about our current QB playing in the big games that we have on the schedule this year. Listen i know some of you are die hard Flacco fans and for the record seeing our history of QB's, i can't blame you. This discussion gets hard to have, if you can't see that he is having a below average season. So i guess we will have to agree to disagree.
[/quote]

Let's see, so beating Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh wasn't a big game? The comeback vs. the Cardinals where his receivers dropped 7-8 passes, including 3 TD passes, wasn't a big game? Blowing the Steelers out in week 1 wasn't a big game? Giving us a chance to sweep the division for the first time since 2006 isn't a big deal? Please, enlighten me as to the nature of what you would consider a "big game".

You're right. It is pointless to argue. You don't like Flacco, and I have no right to question that. I do apologize, and I will attempt to refrain from discussing this particular subject with you any further. It's obvious that you and I both are set in our opinions, and no arguments from either of us will sway the other. I hope, however, that I am right and Flacco is our franchise qb and will be a top five qb in the league. Because I am tired, tired of watching 15 years of non-elite quarterback play in Baltimore. I believe Flacco can change that if he gets a chance away from Cam Cameron. Only the future will bring my answers. For now, all I can say is that I want the Ravens to sweep the division, and win it all this year. I believe you want the same. So I will put aside the Flacco arguing with you for the remainder of the season, and hope we can both agree that our goal, in the end, is the same: brining the Lombardi back to Baltimore.

[1/28/01]

Is he having a down year? Yes! Is he the best we've had at the position? Yes! Is he inconsistent? Yes! Does he need work? Yes! Does he show flashes and have the tools for great success? Yes! Is some of Flaccos inconsistency and failures fall on Cam? Yes! Is the constant back and forth about Flacco ridiculous? Yes! Is this a huge game coming up? Yes!

It could all start here....this game is not only big for the Ravens, but Flacco as well. He needs a strong performance here to solidify what so many of us see; the potential to be great!!

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325171010' post='925870']
Is he having a down year? Yes! Is he the best we've had at the position? Yes! Is he inconsistent? Yes! Does he need work? Yes! Does he show flashes and have the tools for great success? Yes! Is some of Flaccos inconsistency and failures fall on Cam? Yes! Is the constant back and forth about Flacco ridiculous? Yes! Is this a huge game coming up? Yes!

It could all start here....this game is not only big for the Ravens, but Flacco as well. He needs a strong performance here to solidify what so many of us see; [b]the potential to be great!![/b]
[/quote]

Well yeah there is that but, more importantly is the win. I just think this game will come down to Joe and our receivers (yes, notice the AND in that sentence, the man can't do it all by himself). And by receivers, I'm including TEs holding onto the ball (looking at you Dickson).

It's all right in the palm of our hands men. Now, let's get it done.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325169533' post='925856']

Let's see, so beating Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh wasn't a big game? The comeback vs. the Cardinals where his receivers dropped 7-8 passes, including 3 TD passes, wasn't a big game? Blowing the Steelers out in week 1 wasn't a big game? Giving us a chance to sweep the division for the first time since 2006 isn't a big deal? Please, enlighten me as to the nature of what you would consider a "big game".

[b]You're right. It is pointless to argue. You don't like Flacco, and I have no right to question that. I do apologize, and I will attempt to refrain from discussing this particular subject with you any further. It's obvious that you and I both are set in our opinions, and no arguments from either of us will sway the other. I hope, however, that I am right and Flacco is our franchise qb and will be a top five qb in the league. Because I am tired, tired of watching 15 years of non-elite quarterback play in Baltimore. I believe Flacco can change that if he gets a chance away from Cam Cameron. Only the future will bring my answers. For now, all I can say is that I want the Ravens to sweep the division, and win it all this year. I believe you want the same. So I will put aside the Flacco arguing with you for the remainder of the season, and hope we can both agree that our goal, in the end, is the same: brining the Lombardi back to Baltimore.[/b]
[b][/quote][/b]

Thank you for a decent discussion and i agree 100% with this. Its ok that maybe we don't see eye to eye when it comes to Flacco's play. The guy is still the best QB that we have had so i can't argue that. It is however nice to have this discussion with someone that actually concede to the fact that we are not going to agree and leave it at that.

Thanks again Happy New Year!!!

For the record; i hope Flacco shoves my words down my throat in Cinci. Go Ravens!!!!!

[1/28/01]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1325171172' post='925872']

Well yeah there is that but, more importantly is the win. I just think this game will come down to Joe and our receivers (yes, notice the AND in that sentence, the man can't do it all by himself). And by receivers, I'm including TEs holding onto the ball (looking at you Dickson).

It's all right in the palm of our hands men. Now, let's get it done.
[/quote]
Of course the win is most important. But like you said, it could very well come down to Joe. So, great performance by Joe = great = win

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325171010' post='925870']
Is he having a down year? Yes! Is he the best we've had at the position? Yes! Is he inconsistent? Yes! Does he need work? Yes! Does he show flashes and have the tools for great success? Yes! Is some of Flaccos inconsistency and failures fall on Cam? Yes! Is the constant back and forth about Flacco ridiculous? Yes! Is this a huge game coming up? Yes!

It could all start here.... [u][b]this game is not only big for the Ravens, but Flacco as well. He needs a strong performance here to solidify what so many of us see; the potential to be great!![/b][/u]
[/quote]

i agree!

but then again...not only to solidify what we as Ravens fans may see in him and his abilities (at times) but more importantly how everyone else (media, fellow players in the league etc.) views his gameplay as a QB on the national stage...in crunch time....under the lights....when the heat and pressure is on....when it is for all of the marbles etc. etc. etc. he says that he is pretty damn good and that the media doesn't talk about the Ravens enough? well...come gametime on Sunday....on the road vs his nemesis the bengals....with an opportunity to perhaps knock them out of the playoffs...and with the AFC North crown, a home playoff game and a 1st rd bye on the line...now is the time for Joe Flacco to show the world (if it is truly in him) what he is made of as a starting and potential "franchise" QB. IF not...then it is back to "wacco-flacco" talks from tons of people because they are waiting for him to fail. No! they expect him to fail because, unfortunately, that has been his pattern.

~Mili

[TDubbs]

I live in Canada. I watch little to none NFL media coverage. I watch all the games on Sunday. Ive never understood why some fans hate so much on Flacco. I look around the league at others teams and their Qbs and think to myself, man are we lucky to have Flacco.

Many teams have been looking for a Franchise QB for a decade and havent had any luck. Many QBs cannot stay healthy long enough to build a career, and obviously some just cant play at the NFL level and are career backups. I guarantee if you ask fans around the league they would take Joe in a heartbeat.

Flacco has been my favourite QB since we drafted him, few rookies can come to a team like this, play right from the start and progress every game. All he has done is play every game injury free and win games. Yeah, he has had some down right awful games. He still has those plays that make you scratch your head and think, I could have made a better decision. But when you look for a prototype in a QB 6f6 240 pounder who can make any throw on the field is what your looking for. This kid is only going to get better with time as he matures mentally and I cant wait to see how good he can be 2 years down the road (hopefully with a ring on his finger).

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='TDubbs' timestamp='1325197486' post='926318']
I live in Canada. I watch little to none NFL media coverage. I watch all the games on Sunday. [b]Ive never understood why some fans hate so much on Flacco. [/b]I look around the league at others teams and their Qbs and think to myself, man are we lucky to have Flacco.

Many teams have been looking for a Franchise QB for a decade and havent had any luck. Many QBs cannot stay healthy long enough to build a career, and obviously some just cant play at the NFL level and are career backups. I guarantee if you ask fans around the league they would take Joe in a heartbeat.

Flacco has been my favourite QB since we drafted him, few rookies can come to a team like this, play right from the start and progress every game. All he has done is play every game injury free and win games. Yeah, he has had some down right awful games. He still has those plays that make you scratch your head and think, I could have made a better decision. But when you look for a prototype in a QB 6f6 240 pounder who can make any throw on the field is what your looking for. This kid is only going to get better with time as he matures mentally and I cant wait to see how good he can be 2 years down the road (hopefully with a ring on his finger).
[/quote]

Here are some of the possible reasons I've come up with

1) Joe is not an emotional guy, he hardly ever says what he's thinking. It gives people the impression that he doesn't work hard and doesn't care - both of which are total b.s. btw, if you ask other Ravens players how hard Joe works. People want some rah rah guy like Mark Sanchez.

2) Joe is a small school quarterback. Even though he transferred because the coach played favorites with the clearly inferior Tyler Palko, people somehow only see that he comes from Delaware, therefore he must be inferior to guys coming out of bigger programs.

3) Joe is not one of these "athletic running quarterbacks" ala Michael Vick or Vince Young. People seem to be infatuated with these guys even though they don't win when it counts. I don't get it, but whatever. (There may also be an additional element that I believe is one cause, but makes me uncomfortable to both think about and discuss. I really believe it's there but it's just a suspicion I won't name it.)

4) Joe doesn't put up big stats, so obviously if he's not a good fantasy qb he must suck as a qb in real life.

Those are some of the top reasons IMO. All of which, I think, are useless when judging a quarterback, but to each his own.

[TDubbs]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325198462' post='926332']
Here are some of the possible reasons I've come up with
[/quote]

Hmm all fair points for people to bring up to hate on a QB I suppose, good call, and I do hear some of those from people whom I speak with.

To point 1) For a QB I dont mind that hes not as fiery as a Ray Lewis. At crucial points in a game I want him to be the one to keep his cool and not be flustered or too amped up. Ex: The 2 minute drive in Pittsburgh this year, he was cool calm and collected and drove with ease in a hostel enviornment. Id rather put Anquan Boldin in at QB rather than have Dirty Sanchez, I think he is just the worst, but that may be biased by my hate for Gang Green.

2) Never understood what the big deal is with people judging talent by which school a guy goes to, talent is talent in my eyes. Unless of course he is from Da U then he is superior.

3) I hate people who say that they want running QBs. How many games did Mike Vick play this year? I want my QB to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball to guys who get paid to run. Joe is deceptively fast as well, He ripped that 30 yarder pretty nicely last week.

4) Most are guilty by judging talent by Fantasy points these days, I to tend to fall victim to that trap. Not everything should be judged solely on numbers.

[K-Dog]

[quote name='TDubbs' timestamp='1325201143' post='926370']

Hmm all fair points for people to bring up to hate on a QB I suppose, good call, and I do hear some of those from people whom I speak with.

To point 1) For a QB I dont mind that hes not as fiery as a Ray Lewis. At crucial points in a game I want him to be the one to keep his cool and not be flustered or too amped up. Ex: The 2 minute drive in Pittsburgh this year, he was cool calm and collected and drove with ease in a hostel enviornment. Id rather put Anquan Boldin in at QB rather than have Dirty Sanchez, I think he is just the worst, but that may be biased by my hate for Gang Green.

2) Never understood what the big deal is with people judging talent by which school a guy goes to, talent is talent in my eyes. Unless of course he is from Da U then he is superior.

3) I hate people who say that they want running QBs. How many games did Mike Vick play this year? I want my QB to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball to guys who get paid to run. Joe is deceptively fast as well, He ripped that 30 yarder pretty nicely last week.

4) Most are guilty by judging talent by Fantasy points these days, I to tend to fall victim to that trap. Not everything should be judged solely on numbers.
[/quote]


reposting in case any one missed it the first time

[jdynamite]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1324915589' post='923064']

Flacco and Joe Thomas head up would almost be a good trade. U kidding me a top 5 LT for a mediocre quarterback.
[/quote]

So are you agreeing with my trade scenario. Or the trade I commented on?
Original was someone saying trade flacco for josh cribbs and a 1st round pick.
So I said we could at least try to get Joe Thomas with a pick or both 1st round picks Cleveland will have.
I notice u referred to Flacco as mediocre QB but if Palmer is worth 1st and conditional 1st ( next yr). Then Flacco should have similar value.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

With all the flack Joe has received from Baltimore fans, I would not blame him if he wanted to be traded in the offseason. Personally, I would hate to see it but I would understand it. I give him a lot of credit for playing through the consatnt barrage of attacks he has had to endure. I don't think the small school theory has anything to do with the criticism since he graduated from the same school that Rich Gannon attended. Unless I'm mistaken, He re-wrote all of Rich Gannon's records at Delaware. Hopefully, he will surpass some of the NFL stats Gannon compiled. He may not be as flashy or flamboyant as Romo, Ryan and Sanchez, but he has already locked up another playoff start. With a little luck, he may become the second QB from the Univ. of Delaware to play in a Super Bowl. I would agree that our Super Bowl hopes rest mainly on the broad shoulders of Joe Flacco. He will be under a lot of pressure but pressure is nothing more than an opportunity to prove oneself and I know he will not crack under the pressure. I don't want to see Mr. Bates' words shoved down his mouth but I would like to see him have to eat some raw crow when we win on this Sunday.

[jonesy57]

I agree Palmer is of similar value to Flacco. I guy you can win with and once in awhile has an outstanding game. Also has a "I can't believe he screwed up that badly" type game.

Flacco is an above average QB. Doesn't carry a team, but once in awhile. Usually is not the problem in a loss.

If you can get two 1st rd. picks for him; You would be crazy not to do it. Take those two picks and try to get RG3 or Luck?

If you boys get one of those guys you will be looking at a Super Bowl bid for years to come.