Cleveland Columnist Writes: [You Took] Our Team, How About Giving Us Your Quarterback?

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325004518' post='924076']

And I won't dispute that. But a lot of teams are built that way. Did you see what happened to Atlanta yesterday when they tried to make [b]Matt Ryan[/b] throw 50 times? Or to the Jets when Sanchez had to throw 50 times? When the Patriots won their first two superbowls, Brady was throwing between 25-30 times a game. Roethlisberger averaged even less in the Steelers' Superbowl seasons. Of course our offense has to run through Ray Rice. Haven't you seen the number of posts where I've pointed out that not getting Rice involved costs us games? Ray Rice is our offensive tone setter, but that does not mean he's more or less critical to the success of the offense. The running game in general is critical to our success, whether it was [b]Rice, McGahee, McClain, or Jamal Lewis[/b] running the ball. Joe Flacco is at his best off of play action, he runs it as well as almost anyone in the league, and yet we're not running the ball half the time to set up play action. That's on the offensive gameplanning.

And since when is it a crime for a quarterback to rely on a strong running game to help him win? Is your point that we need a guy who can come in here and throw 50+ times every game and win, because then unless you can think of a way to get a Brees, Rodgers, Manning, or Brady, forget it. Look at Cam Newton. [b]Every time he's thrown the ball over 30 times except once, his team has lost. Does that mean his a bad, or even average quarterback? No, it simply means he's not the driving force of their offense yet, that the running game and a balanced attack is still critical to the team's success.[/b]

Again, aside from the four quarterbacks and their teams that I mentioned, that's true for every other team in the league. So why is Joe Flacco not being asked to win a game a slight on him? When he's asked to, he's answered the call many times (Arizona, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, the Jets both times when the running game did nothing, etc.). Does he still make mistakes, yes? But if you think that a running game is more important to winning than an even slightly-below average passing game, then I'd have to ask you what NFL you're watching.

The Jets came up short twice because in the end, you can't trust Sanchez. When he played decent in the regular season the Jets dominated. Now he's playing poorly, and the Jets are sunk. Why, considering how poor of a quarterback he's been? It's simply because having even a little production out of the passing game is more important in today's NFL than having the best running attack. The Ravens had a better defense and a better running back than Ray Rice for 6 years, and they still came up short. The Vikings had a stellar defense and the best running back in the game, and still fell flat until Favre got there. The Titans had a guy who ran like crazy, got over 2000 yards, and guess what happened? They missed the playoffs. Yet his rookie season, when he ran for only 800 yards, but the Titans had a solid quarterback in Collins, they went 13-3 and were the top seed. History, especially recent history, says that even if you have an elite running back, the quarterback is still the most important piece in determining whether you go to the playoffs or not. You can't dispute those facts. Ray Rice is by far a [b]better[/b] player than Flacco is, may be a better player than Flacco will ever be. But Flacco is more important to this team, because he is the quarterback. [b]Whoever the quarterback is on this team would be the most important player on the team. The evidence of that is indisputable.[/b]
[/quote]
Where to start? Matt Ryan and Joe, are about equal at the quarterback position. Sanchez is and has always been a bottom tier guy.
Now with that said, if Dilfer won a Superbowl , Joe Namath won a super bowl, Terry Bradshaw won a Super Bowl, Brad Johnson won a superbowl . Add big Ben's first Super bowl run in there too. All of these guys have one thing in common. They rode great defenses into super stardom. When asked;" who was that quarterback that won that Super Bowl in Baltimore"? Most peoples response, i don't know. So is he the most important? Not really. Just another player unless you make a name for yourself.

Cam Newton has, 3893 passing yards, with 20 touchdowns, and 60 % completion percentage.
Cam rushing, 674 yards 5.6 yards an attempt, with 14 touchdowns, double the amount of any back on his team.
To put these stats in perspective the Carolina panthers have totaled 46 TDS and Cam has 34 of those. [b]So yeah, i would say he is the driving force behind the team.[/b]

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325006008' post='924105']

You still have not answered my question BTW. How come if any quarterback could come in here and win, why didn't we win when we had a better defense, better o-line, and better running back?
[/quote]
When did we have all three of those things better? Who was our quarterback?

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325009673' post='924181']

I point out your mistakes in grammar to show your incompetence. You expect Flacco to be much more than competent at the hardest position in sports, but you can't even avoid simple mistakes yourself.

I guarantee that I am far better equipped to analyze football than you are. That much is perfectly clear. You lack the ability to avoid reacting to every game and every play in a vacuum. Everything is Flacco's fault by default. That's the sign of a level 1, knows absolutely nothing fan. That's why after Flacco drove 92 yards for the win in Pittsburgh, you emphatically took back all of the negative things that you said about him. But now, a month and half later, we're right back to where we started. Just ridiculous.
[/quote]
[font="verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#000000"]Grammar doesn't prove intelligence, it proves grammatical skill. Incompetence is merely a lack of skill.........ouch that hurt. lmao. You analyzing football better than me is laughable. Back to Flacco. He is average. Typing and playing football im probably alot better at one than the other. I will let you decide witch<<<<<<<<lmao.[/color][/size][/font]

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325028651' post='924536']
When did we have all three of those things better? Who was our quarterback?
[/quote]

Kyle Boller. If anyone can win with this team, why couldn't he? Or Elvis Grbac, for another. Look up the numbers. There were several years from 2001-2006 where we had Jamal Lewis (a better running back than Rice is) a defense that gave up fewer PPG than ours does now, and a great o-line anchored by JO, Mike Flynn, Edwin Mulitalo, etc. Right now we don't even have a great left tackle like JO was, and Matt Birk is a shell of who he was even last year. Guys have been injured all season - this is one of the worst oline's we've had in a decade.

[hawkprey]

I don't think we can have a thread anymore without someone bargaining Cam away. Has this been done here yet?

[K-Dog]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1325029477' post='924551']
I don't think we can have a thread anymore without someone bargaining Cam away. Has this been done here yet?
[/quote]

what are you talking about?
Some one here doesnt like Cam ?

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1325029477' post='924551']
I don't think we can have a thread anymore [b]without someone bargaining Cam away[/b]. Has this been done here yet?
[/quote]

Bargain him away? Who'd take him? I'm getting to the point where I'd start offering to pay teams to take him from us.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325029291' post='924544']
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=2][color=#000000]Grammar doesn't prove intelligence, it proves grammatical skill. Incompetence is merely a lack of skill.........ouch that hurt. lmao. You analyzing football better than me is laughable. Back to Flacco. He is average. Typing and playing football im probably alot better at one than the other. I will let you decide witch<<<<<<<<lmao.[/color][/size][/font]
[/quote]

I didn't say anything about intelligence, I said that you were less competent at typing/grammar than Flacco is at QB. Add reading comprehension to that list.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325028306' post='924531']

[b]That's not what he's talking about. What he's referring to is that you stated "I will avoid telling you my extent of football knowledge, as it can be intimidating on these sites." That's quite a bit of hubris if you ask me. Unless you were a former NFL player or coach yourself, or even a spectacular college player, I don't see how your football knowledge could be any greater than any other poster on this site[/b]. A lot of us have been watching football for decades, and many of us I'm sure have played football at some level or another. Being a lifetime blogger doesn't make you an expert on any sort of knowledge. What it sounds like your saying is "I'm right because I have a vast amount of knowledge and experience that you don't. If I were to display my full knowledge people will be intimidated." First off, why would we be intimidated? If we're talking to someone who knows a lot about the game and what it takes to play, we'd me more inclined to talk to you.

More importantly, you still have not answered my question though I feel like I've asked you 3-4 times. If Joe is an average to slightly-below average qb and we've gotten to the playoffs on the strength of our defense and running game, then how do you explain 2003 and 2005, with a better defense, a better running back, and a better offensive line, that we finished 10-3 in 03 and were bounced in the first round, and finished 6-10 in 2005 and missed the playoffs totally?
[/quote]
I hate doing this now, but here goes. I Have played football at every level including the NFL for a few days. Kinda my point. When called out before on these threads, i provided my story with some, so if you want or need proof im sure they will be willing to share.

To answer your second question to be honest in 03 i was still trying to make a team not sure what happened then. In 05 there is no way you are going to the Superbowl with Jim fassel as your O coordinator and Kyle Boller as your starting QB. Boller was a below average QB. Thats why we had no shot. That offensive line as i remember it, was not all that good either. Jamal rushed for 906 yards in 05. Not sure you didn't mean another year.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325037715' post='924709']

I didn't say anything about intelligence, I said that you were less competent at typing/grammar than Flacco is at QB. Add reading comprehension to that list.
[/quote]

By pointing these things out you were trying to accomplish what exactly? Get the point?
Internet school teachers.....lmao

Dude you are the weakest link. Goodbye.

[RivenHale]

That whooshing sound we all hear is our posts flying over RBates' head.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='frozen joe flacco fan' timestamp='1325005892' post='924104']
[b]Quite frankly, I don't get the point. Aren't you assuming that because your extent of football knowledge is so extensive that nobody else's opinion matters? Many pro football coaches can fall into the same trap. As you probably know, when it comes to decision making in any business, egos need to be left at the door[/b]. Coaching arrogancy has led the Ravens to many of their losses in the past --- of course, this is a problem that is not unique to the Ravens. As far as knowledge is concerned, people will never care how much you know until they know how much you care. I can remember two Ravens playoff games involving an outstanding QB named Steve McNair. In the first game, I sat in the stands thinking if we only had a good QB we could beat the Titans. We lost. In the second game, He was our QB and had us down on the goal line and threw a ill-advised pass to our opponent that day which cost us a chance to advance in the playoffs. Wasn't our record 13-3 that year and didn't we have a 1st round bye? I'm worried about Sunday's game in Cincy for a different reason than you are. You're obviously worried about Joe while I'm worried about his receiving corps. Joe only completed 11 passes on Sunday and 7 were to his three backs. The 134 passing yards was his lowest total for the season. We cannot do that against a Marvin Lewis coached team.

[b]Since you are a student of the game, you know that a 200 yard passing day used to be the benchmark for a great QB. It still is for teams with a balanced running game and passing game. Unfortunately, there aren't many NFL teams left with great running backs like there used to be. [/b]If others on this team would step up and do their jobs and quit relying solely on Joe Flacco, we could win on Sunday and secure at least the #2 seed. Unfortunately, I don't expect that to happen and believe we will wind up as the #5 seed. If we don't win on Sunday, it doesn't mean that Andy Dalton is better than Joe Flacco. Incidentally, I hope I'm wrong about Sunday's outcome. "Whiners never win and winners never whine."
[/quote]
To answer your first question, Not at all. My opinion on this site, is no more important than anyone else's. Arrogant is something i am not. I just thought it was time to let one guy in particular know (john Johnson) that he was out of his league when he started on bashing my football knowledge.

Second part of your highlighted post. Since the rule changes over the last decade in the NFL they have made it a lot easier on the quarterbacks to throw for a ton of yards. In fact, minus Alex Smith, Blaine Gabbert, Curtis Painter, Matt Moore, Matt Cassel, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder. They all average more than 200 yards a game. Flacco has never had a problem getting the ball down the field in terms of yardage, he has had a ton of trouble in the red zone, and with turnovers this season. Which really negates all the positive things he is able to do over the course of a season. Completion percentage is bad also. Getting receivers involved in the game is a quarterbacks number one job, it takes pressure of the running back and the O line. RR leads this team in receptions, because Flacco loves to check it down. With a guy like Anquan on the team, why does RR lead the team in receptions? Moving forward, if this is all we can do on offense it will get us beat.

[CapoRocky]

Honestly, I don't understand that you can't see the business nature of the game that transcends the regional loyalties. As a man born abroad (Val d'Aosta, Italia), to a Sicilian father and a Northern Italian mother, I have seen the worst of regional infighting in our football leagues. It is not uncommon for men to lose their lives betting on their team and losing. Just imagine the dark side of the word vendetta. Mario Puzzo was born here and doesn't know half of what goes on in the old country. Moving forward, the Colts left Baltimore to pursue a better financial situation in Indianapolis. I had just come here to Baltimore when they were stinking up the league. Many people were following the Redskins then. The Browns left Cleveland under similar circumstances. We are the Ravens, not the Browns. I thank our lucky stars that we didn't inherit those crap-stained uniforms. As much as everyone love the old Colts, we are not the same team that won the 1958-9 championships. We have a new identity and destiny to become a repeat champion like the Colts of old. The Packers don't scare me, but Cameron's lame play calling could put a damper on our progress in the playoffs. Wake up call. I'd much rather face the Packers than the Saints, even though we somehow managed to beat the Saints last year. I'm not intimidated by Rogers at all. The biggest threat to our survival in the playoffs is our lack of confidence in our ability. We proved ourselves by beating all of our conference opponents. Now, we can go out a champion by sweeping them all. The road through M&T stadium in the cold of January will be a tough one for our enemies. Victory is ours. The playoffs are not the end of all things. We must get a bye and home field advantage. The big men are betting for us not against us. We must do the honorable thing and win.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325054679' post='924893']
To answer your first question, Not at all. My opinion on this site, is no more important than anyone else's. Arrogant is something i am not. I just thought it was time to let one guy in particular know (john Johnson) that he was out of his league when he started on bashing my football knowledge.
[/quote]

You've already demonstrated your level of football knowledge, repeatedly. You came crawling back to Flacco after the 92 yard drive in Pittsburgh, taking back everything you said, and now you've gone right back to your simple-minded criticism and calling him average. Only someone with a very limited understanding of football (as well as statistics) would act this way. No one who understands football would waver so much based on one game or a few games, instead of considering Flacco's entire body of work.

[SoCalRavenFan]

[quote name='BALTIMOREFLACCO' timestamp='1324856509' post='922693']


All I need
[/quote]
amen

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325052806' post='924879']
I hate doing this now, but here goes. [b]I Have played football at every level including the NFL for a few days.[/b] Kinda my point. When called out before on these threads, i provided my story with some, so if you want or need proof im sure they will be willing to share.
[/quote]

LMAO!!!

Not for one second do I believe that, and I never will because you can't provide proof. Because you weren't an NFL player.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='RivenHale' timestamp='1325053928' post='924884']
That whooshing sound we all hear is our posts flying over RBates' head.
[/quote]
Didn't know i was having a conversation with you....
So yeah, right over my head.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325056197' post='924903']

LMAO!!!

Not for one second do I believe that, and I never will because you can't provide proof. Because you weren't an NFL player.
[/quote]
That's nice. If I cared about your opinion would show you, but i don't so i won't.

[CapoRocky]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325056726' post='924906']
Didn't know i was having a conversation with you....
So yeah, right over my head.
[/quote]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=3]Una volta ero un giocatore di calcio, ma ora sono un professore universitario. [/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Arial][size=3]I never even heard of the NFL before the 1980s when I fled Italy for the new world. Now, I possess a PHD and teach at (an unknown but highly reputed east coast university). Life is good for us all, no? I want to quote an Italian proverb for you kings of BS: [/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Arial][size=3]Se non riesci a stupire con il brillance, quindi li confondere con stronzate. (if you can't dazzle them with brillance, baffle them with BS).[/size][/font][/color]
Felice anno nuovo, la mia famiglia e gli amici. (happy New Year my family and friends). That was my the basis of my PHD defense at (a famous lacrosse university) in Biomedical Engineering. Of course, the thick Italian accent and my incredible good looks didn't hurt. (hahaha). Unfortunately, ladies, I am married to a female equivalent of Venus.

[CapoRocky]

I only edit because I am a perfectionist and hate to use your language improperly.

[CapoRocky]

Please, all i need is some genes from Ngata, Suggs, and Rice and I would make the best lineman in the league by 2033.

[CapoRocky]

Biomedical Engineering is for sports as well as for military applications. (hehehe)

[CapoRocky]

As for the negativists, that post these kind of down drivers of motivational paradigns, I digress into your foul spiral of sputum by saying that this kind of post will surely bring a collective downturn into our hopes of a Ravens victory in the Super Bowl. I was there in 2001. It was magnifico.

[chesapeakeaviator]

5-0 in the best division in football. 11-4. We expected to win every single game we've played in. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not worried one lick about Joe Flacco being my starting QB. He's a winner, his teammates believe in him, guys who don't even have to sing his praises once they leave Baltimore do... enough for me. I don't think he's as good as Brees, Brady, Rodgers, et al. I also think those teams don't have a D like we do, thanks in part to the against-the-cap salaries that having a QB of that caliber commands. I'll take that trade. The game at Pittsburgh. Shows you exactly what Joe can do.

I'm infinitely more concerned about our SPECIAL TEAMS, who always seem to give up big, potentially game-changing plays. I could see that coming up to bite us in the rear once the playoffs get here.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325028651' post='924536']
When did we have all three of those things better? Who was our quarterback?
[/quote]

Are you joking? Jamal Lewis, Ravens defense in the early 2000s and Jonathan Ogden anchoring LT? Would a true Ravens fan not know this?

[The Raven]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325099655' post='925229']

Are you joking? Jamal Lewis, Ravens defense in the early 2000s and Jonathan Ogden anchoring LT? Would a true Ravens fan not know this?
[/quote]

As much as I hate to defend RBates (haha ), he realizes this. His point is, that throughout 2000-2006 we had the greatest defense, runningback, and offensive line, but we didn't win because we didn't have a quarterback.

At least I hope thats what his point is.

[FerrariFan87]

The Browns wouldn't be able to offer enough picks/compensation to pry Joe from Ozzie anyway... they also "gave" us Ngata, do they want him too?

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325000627' post='924018']
I love when people assume. Just because we are on the internet, does not mean that we do not know the game at the NFL level. I will avoid telling you my extent of knowledge when it comes to pro football, as I find that it can be a little intimidating on these sites. However your assumptions make you look ridiculous, also pointing out mistakes in grammar don't really make you intelligent. In fact, It screams "I have no legitimate reason to belittle you, but you made a grammatical error so I guess I'll go with that". My point however still stands Flacco has looked average all season. Yes he is the best Qb we have ever had. He still looks average. Yes Flacco has won more games for us then any Qb we have ever had. He still looks average. Get the point?
[/quote]

When you say average, do you mean top 15 in the world at what he does? Because that's exactly my point, I have a perfectly valid reason to criticize what you're saying. You're criticizing someone for not meeting your expectations at one of the hardest positions in sports, but he's actually very competent at a much more difficult task than anything you deal with. I think you just need some perspective, watch other NFL games or order NFL Red Zone and you'll see how many mistakes other QBs make, and how "average" they can look at times.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325099923' post='925235']

As much as I hate to defend RBates (haha [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]), he realizes this. His point is, that throughout 2000-2006 we had the greatest defense, runningback, and offensive line, but we didn't win because we didn't have a quarterback.

At least I hope thats what his point is. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]
[/quote]

No, that's not his point. We made the point that if Flacco is so average, why couldn't we just find some average QB to do what he's done when we had a better defense, better RB, and better o-line? RBates asked "when did we have that?"

It wasn't easy with the QBs we had before Boller. It wasn't easy with Boller (obviously). It wasn't easy with McNair (above average I'd say).

[The Raven]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325100185' post='925241']

No, that's not his point. We made the point that if Flacco is so average, why couldn't we just find some average QB to do what he's done when we had a better defense, better RB, and better o-line? RBates asked "when did we have that?"

It wasn't easy with the QBs we had before Boller. It wasn't easy with Boller (obviously). It wasn't easy with McNair (above average I'd say).
[/quote]

Well dang... That's just asinine!