Who Will Our New Qb Be ?

[flynismo]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1324997608' post='923979']
If you look at the stats when we don't run a lot we lose as to say if we have to put the ball in Joes hands we lose way more then we win.
[/quote]

Well, let's put that theory to test.
Four times this year, Flacco threw the ball 40+ times. We won 3 of those four games. And of those 3 wins, two of them were miraculous comeback victories (set a franchise record against AZ for coming back from a 21 point deficit, and then the very next week was the 92 yard drive against PIT, which is the stuff that legends are made of).

So ... I cant agree with the statement that we lose way more than we win when we put the game in Flacco's hands.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='ArmyRavensFan' timestamp='1325008635' post='924151']
The Baltimore Fan base lives in a New York Yankees world without a salary cap where we can be elite at every position. As it stands the Ravens are well rounded team with an elite defense and top 5 running back. How do the defenses with the Elite QBs such as Green Bay, New Orleans, New England, and Indianapolis stack up? How about their running backs? Yes these QBs can carry their teams by themselves but at the risk that if they go down then their team’s season is over (ex. Patriots 2008, Colts 2011). The reason being that these QBs eat a large portion of the salary cap and thus the teams have less money to add supporting cast. Baltimore has the luxury of winning a variety of ways. All teams have weaknesses but if fans think Joe Flacco is the Raven’s primary weakness, then the Ravens we are in good shape.

A lot of threads and columnists have written about Baltimore’s lack of identity. The fact is that Baltimore’s Identity has always been smash mouth football. A hard hitting, punch you in the mouth football team with great defense and a solid running game. Baltimore is a team that no one wants to play against because even if you pull out a victory over Baltimore, you are going to come out timid and hurting. That is who we are and I wouldn’t want it any other way. So if this is our identity, I do not expect to win a shootout and I place the blame for games like San Diego on the defense. An Elite defense should never allow 34 points, period.

So with that said, what about Joe Flacco and the Ravens future. His contract is coming up but so are several other key individuals such as Ben Grubbs and Ray Rice. Webb’s contract is not that far off either. I like Joe Flacco and I think he is a good fit for Baltimore but I believe Ray Rice and Ben Grubbs are more important to this team’s identity. Now if Joe Flacco takes a contract extension [b]at the right price [/b](far cheaper than an elite QB) and we are able to keep Rice and Grubbs, then I think Joe Flacco is our QB of the future. If Joe Flacco remains our QB though, I do think it is time to move on from Cam Cameron and see how Joe progresses under a different system. I am not saying Cam is the problem, but his system might not be the right fit for Joe. Either way, the Ravens need to find out.
[/quote]

I'd say the reasonable price for Flacco is in the Matt Shaub to Ryan Fitzpatrick range, between 6-8 million a year. And that's an absolute bargain, considering Michael Vick is making 20 million, MARK SANCHEZ 15 million, Carson Palmer 14 million, Matt Ryan 11 million. 8 million is about what Brees and Rodgers make, and this is before their big contract extensions - both will be paid top money (Brees will get his extension this year, and Rodgers probably next year or the year after). Ray Rice will get probably between 7-10 million a year. Quarterbacks by their nature are better paid, but if you look at other running backs, Steven Jackson makes about 10 million and AP about 11 million, MJD 8 million. So I'd actually be okay with giving both guys about 8 million a year, because that's where I see them both fitting in respective to the rest of their counterparts in the league.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325009488' post='924176']

I'd say the reasonable price for Flacco is in the Matt Shaub to Ryan Fitzpatrick range, between 6-8 million a year. And that's an absolute bargain, considering Michael Vick is making 20 million, MARK SANCHEZ 15 million, Carson Palmer 14 million, Matt Ryan 11 million. 8 million is about what Brees and Rodgers make, and this is before their big contract extensions - both will be paid top money (Brees will get his extension this year, and Rodgers probably next year or the year after). Ray Rice will get probably between 7-10 million a year. Quarterbacks by their nature are better paid, but if you look at other running backs, Steven Jackson makes about 10 million and AP about 11 million, MJD 8 million. So I'd actually be okay with giving both guys about 8 million a year, because that's where I see them both fitting in respective to the rest of their counterparts in the league.
[/quote]

Matt Ryan makes more than Aaron Rodgers? Yeah that Rookie Wage scale.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1325009608' post='924180']

Matt Ryan makes more than Aaron Rodgers? Yeah that Rookie Wage scale.
[/quote]

Ryan was the #3 overall pick in 2008, Rodgers went #24 in 2005. And Brees' deal came after his shoulder injury when nobody wanted to take a shot on him except New Orleans (Maimi [i]still [/i]has to be kicking themselves). Here's something even worse. I'm pretty sure Jamarcus Russell made 40-50 million off of his deal (32 million guaranteed, then 3 years getting paid) despite being cut halfway into it.

But yeah, the following qb's make more than Rodgers does: Petyon, Vick, Roethlisberger, Palmer (though IDK what the whole retirement thing did), Brady, Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, Romo, Eli, Cutler.

[nk02442]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1325008689' post='924153']


So, you're saying that asking your offense to travel 3000 miles and scoring 35+ points (which is what we needed to do since our defense gave up 34) is reasonable to expect?
[/quote]
If Our offense scored 30 points they would not have scored 34, so yes. I dont know how to get it throughy our thick skull, but the game is tailored to the passing game nowadays and to win against top offense, YOU HAVE TO SCORE POINTS. That simple.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325008834' post='924157']

Whatever the term is athlete, mobile qb, history shows that to be a great quarterback first and foremost you have to be a great pocket passer. Roethlisberger is also a very athletic guy and is one of the best all time at turning broken plays into big gains. But most of the damage that he, Rodgers, Steve Young, etc. did/do are from inside the pocket. That's partly why I think Cam Newton will succeed where [b]Vick [/b]and Vince Young[b] failed,[/b] because unlike them, he is a tremendous pocket passer that only uses his running ability as a compliment, just like Rodgers and Big Ben do.
[/quote]
HUH?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325059799' post='924929']
HUH?
[/quote]

Vince Young

TDs 46
INTs 51
comp % 57.9
Sk% 6.0
QB rat 74.4

Now that is his career. His sack % has only been below 6% once and that is this season with his limited playing time. His INT % has been over 3% nearly every year. All these things you come on here and bash Flacco for - he is worse.

Last season was the first and only season that Vick's completion percentage rose above 60%. One of the major bashing arguments that I see from you and others regarding Flacco. He only has 2 more TDs than INTs this season as well. Yes I know he has rushing TDs but we have 2 RBs for that. It isn't what we need from the QB position.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325059799' post='924929']
HUH?
[/quote]

If you think Michael Vick has been a successful qb in this league, especially considering he was the number 1, yes number 1, overall pick in 2001, I then I don't know what to say. Obviously we rate quarterbacks on two different things, and what I consider success you don't. People are killing Flacco for his completion % being under 60 percent - It took Vick 10 years to figure out how to complete 60 percent of his passes, and he needed a loaded WR corps consisting of Jeremy Maclin, Desean Jackson, Jason Avant, and Brent Celek to do it. He's under 60 percent this year, and couldn't get the job done with the best team in the league. He's never thrown for more than 21 TDs in a season, and has thrown almost as many INTs as TDs in several seasons he's been in. Oh, I forgot, "he can run". Well, if you take 2 seasons, 02 and 09, he had more rushing TDs in those two seasons, 17 than in the rest of his career combined. Yeah he can run, but it doesn't seem to help his team win. This year, he's completing 59.6 percent of his passes for 15 TDs and 13 INTs, and rushed for another TD, while gaining about 3500 yards between rushing and receiving. Hardly "elite" qb numbers - oh and lets not forget, he's being paid 20 million dollars to do it, so close to 1.3 million a TD. Wow, what a deal for an "elite" quarterback. The man has no excuses, his team is one of the most talented in the league, especially on offense, and he is a big part of the reason they haven't gotten the job done. I live in Philadelphia, and I can tell you exactly what everyone around here thinks of Michael Vick and the job he's done this season. Not to mention, if you listen to all of his postgame press conferences and his radio addresses, the man has to be one of the worst teammates in the league. Every time it's "My offensive line couldn't block for me", "There was nobody open", "I can't do it all by myself", "I'm carrying this team".

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1325071737' post='924944']

Vince Young

TDs 46
INTs 51
comp % 57.9
Sk% 6.0
QB rat 74.4

Now that is his career. His sack % has only been below 6% once and that is this season with his limited playing time. His INT % has been over 3% nearly every year. All these things you come on here and bash Flacco for - he is worse.

Last season was the first and only season that Vick's completion percentage rose above 60%. One of the major bashing arguments that I see from you and others regarding Flacco. He only has 2 more TDs than INTs this season as well. [b]Yes I know he has rushing TDs but we have 2 RBs for that. It isn't what we need from the QB position.[/b]
[/quote]

Michael Vick last year was in the MVP conversation no need to defend him at all. Rushing stats do matter, because they are usually designed pass plays that get busted, and the quarterback has to run (e.g., Flacco's 30 yard scamper in the last game.) You can not exclude any stats when talking about players. If a Qb scrambles, and that scramble happens to put us in scoring range, that changes the game,and perhaps our win loss record.

I have never spoke on Vince Young he is not a good Qb.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1325071737' post='924944']

Vince Young

TDs 46
INTs 51
comp % 57.9
Sk% 6.0
QB rat 74.4

Now that is his career. His sack % has only been below 6% once and that is this season with his limited playing time. His INT % has been over 3% nearly every year. All these things you come on here and bash Flacco for - he is worse.

Last season was the first and only season that Vick's completion percentage rose above 60%. One of the major bashing arguments that I see from you and others regarding Flacco. He only has 2 more TDs than INTs this season as well. Yes I know [b]he has rushing TDs[/b] but we have 2 RBs for that. It isn't what we need from the QB position.
[/quote]

Michael Vick actually only has 1 rushing TD this season.

[BloodRaven]

Why are there always stupid topics like this? these cause as much infighting and dissent as trolling threads. I'm here every day and I don't remember anyone saying we should cut Flacco, and if there was it's certainly not worth bringing more attention to.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1325079071' post='924972']
Why are there always stupid topics like this? these cause as much infighting and dissent as trolling threads. I'm here every day and I don't remember anyone saying we should cut Flacco, and if there was it's certainly not worth bringing more attention to.
[/quote]

Did you read my thread "Let's Say Something Good about a Player"? There are only (I think anyway) positive things in that thread.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1325059799' post='924929']

HUH?
[/quote]
Yes, Vick has failed. He failed miserably with the Falcons (did they even have more than one winning season with him?), he has once again failed with the Eagles (proving that his 2010 season was the aberration) and he certainly failed in his personal life since being sentenced to a lengthy stay locked up. That is failure to me.

[Ravenslifer]

If I'm not mistaken, Michael Vick also said something last year along the lines of "I guess I better start watching film." He said that he never watched game film the ENTIRE time he was in Atlanta.

[url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Vick-tells-ex-coach-that-he-never-watched-game-f?urn=nfl-274159"]http://sports.yahoo....?urn=nfl-274159[/url]

Here is an article. I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather have a quarterback that has both the acumen and the desire to get better for himself and his teammates than a guy who thought he knew everything for 10 years. There have been several articles written about how Joe Flacco is a gym rat and spends a lot of time in the film room. Hm, sounds like an intelligent quarterback who cares about getting better. Michael Vick? Apparently he knows everything already.

[chesapeakeaviator]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325081889' post='925012']
If I'm not mistaken, Michael Vick also said something last year along the lines of "I guess I better start watching film." He said that he never watched game film the ENTIRE time he was in Atlanta.

[url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Vick-tells-ex-coach-that-he-never-watched-game-f?urn=nfl-274159"]http://sports.yahoo....?urn=nfl-274159[/url]

Here is an article. I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather have a quarterback that has both the acumen and the desire to get better for himself and his teammates than a guy who thought he new everything for 10 years. There have been several articles written about how Joe Flacco is a gym rat and spends a lot of time in the film room. Hm, sounds like an intelligent quarterback who cares about getting better. Michael Vick? Apparently he knows everything already.
[/quote]

Agree completely. After watching Vick this year on a team with a PHENOMENAL RB, standout WRs and a great TE, and a line that was supposed to be decent on paper, I have to wonder about him and his drive to play at this level. He's clearly more talented than Flacco (when he throws those 60 yard bombs on a rope off his back foot, it's clear that he possesses a talent that even the truly elite QBs don't have), but obviously never had the mind to be disciplined. The NFL is all about discipline--talent is a given for every player who makes it this far.

It's too bad for him--he never amounted to a fraction of what he could have been.

[itscbm5042]

There are a few issues at play here. One, is that the fanbase in general knows that the Ravens would be border line unbeatable every game with an ultra elite QB like Rodgers or Brees and we want desperately for Flacco to become that. He has more arm strength than Brees, he has more size than Rodgers...but here is what people forget. Flacco... is not very smart. He just will never have that high football IQ that the ultra elite QBs possess. His physical attributes will take him pretty far, but he is just not a very smart guy and his development has been retarded by Cam Cameron's awful play calling and QB/Coach protocol. There is no reason on God's green Earth why Flacco shouldn't be wearing a wrist band in his 4th year. Unacceptable. There is no reason he should take a sack with 7 seconds to throw, unacceptable.

He is a big guy, he is a strong guy, but is a DUMB guy. The truth hurts. Now personally I like Flacco and can't wait to see what he can do without Cameron holding him down any further. But Flacco should be throwing for 4,000+ and 30+ TDs every year on a team like this. Instead he has hit a plateu of 20-25TDs and 3500 yards and that just isn't good enough, because we know he can be better. He should never have these 190yd 0TD games he puts up every once in awhile.

Next year, give him the wrist band, make sure he focuses on leading receivers and is getting used to throwing in front of Smith and Evans (a combo of Flacco's arm and Torrey's speed should be absolutely deadly if they can consistently get on the same page). The guy only had receivers like Derrick Mason, Boldin, and Housh to throw to for the first 3 years. This is why he underthrows receivers, he hasn't been able to recognize the vastly increased speed and his muscle memory is still in slow receiver mode. He HAS to break that.

Flacco could be better, he can be very good, but he will never be ultra elite because is not a very smart QB and that is partially due to Cameron infecting him with his God awful approach and being surrounded by slow receivers for his early development years.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='itscbm5042' timestamp='1325090323' post='925069']
There are a few issues at play here. One, is that the fanbase in general knows that the Ravens would be border line unbeatable every game with an ultra elite QB like Rodgers or Brees and we want desperately for Flacco to become that. He has more arm strength than Brees, he has more size than Rodgers...but here is what people forget. Flacco... is not very smart. He just will never have that high football IQ that the ultra elite QBs possess. His physical attributes will take him pretty far, but he is just not a very smart guy and his development has been retarded by Cam Cameron's awful play calling and QB/Coach protocol. There is no reason on God's green Earth why Flacco shouldn't be wearing a wrist band in his 4th year. Unacceptable. There is no reason he should take a sack with 7 seconds to throw, unacceptable.

He is a big guy, he is a strong guy, but is a DUMB guy. The truth hurts. Now personally I like Flacco and can't wait to see what he can do without Cameron holding him down any further. But Flacco should be throwing for 4,000+ and 30+ TDs every year on a team like this. Instead he has hit a plateu of 20-25TDs and 3500 yards and that just isn't good enough, because we know he can be better. He should never have these 190yd 0TD games he puts up every once in awhile.

Next year, give him the wrist band, make sure he focuses on leading receivers and is getting used to throwing in front of Smith and Evans (a combo of Flacco's arm and Torrey's speed should be absolutely deadly if they can consistently get on the same page). The guy only had receivers like Derrick Mason, Boldin, and Housh to throw to for the first 3 years. This is why he underthrows receivers, he hasn't been able to recognize the vastly increased speed and his muscle memory is still in slow receiver mode. He HAS to break that.

Flacco could be better, he can be very good, but he will never be ultra elite because is not a very smart QB and that is partially due to Cameron infecting him with his God awful approach and being surrounded by slow receivers for his early development years.
[/quote]
What makes you so sure he's "dumb"? He scored a 27 on the Wonderlic...

[1/28/01]

FYI - 27 is one below Brees and Mannings score of 28

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='itscbm5042' timestamp='1325090323' post='925069']
There are a few issues at play here. One, is that the fanbase in general knows that the Ravens would be border line unbeatable every game with an ultra elite QB like Rodgers or Brees and we want desperately for Flacco to become that. He has more arm strength than Brees, he has more size than Rodgers...but here is what people forget. Flacco... is not very smart. He just will never have that high football IQ that the ultra elite QBs possess. His physical attributes will take him pretty far, but he is just not a very smart guy and his development has been retarded by Cam Cameron's awful play calling and QB/Coach protocol. There is no reason on God's green Earth why Flacco shouldn't be wearing a wrist band in his 4th year. Unacceptable. There is no reason he should take a sack with 7 seconds to throw, unacceptable.

He is a big guy, he is a strong guy, but is a DUMB guy. The truth hurts. Now personally I like Flacco and can't wait to see what he can do without Cameron holding him down any further. But Flacco should be throwing for 4,000+ and 30+ TDs every year on a team like this. Instead he has hit a plateu of 20-25TDs and 3500 yards and that just isn't good enough, because we know he can be better. He should never have these 190yd 0TD games he puts up every once in awhile.

Next year, give him the wrist band, make sure he focuses on leading receivers and is getting used to throwing in front of Smith and Evans (a combo of Flacco's arm and Torrey's speed should be absolutely deadly if they can consistently get on the same page). The guy only had receivers like Derrick Mason, Boldin, and Housh to throw to for the first 3 years. This is why he underthrows receivers, he hasn't been able to recognize the vastly increased speed and his muscle memory is still in slow receiver mode. He HAS to break that.

Flacco could be better, he can be very good, but he will never be ultra elite because is not a very smart QB and that is partially due to Cameron infecting him with his God awful approach and being surrounded by slow receivers for his early development years.
[/quote]

I agree with you except that he is dumb...he just hasn't been taught properly in my opinion, and that learning could still happen if we act immediately this year to get a new OC and qb coach.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325092379' post='925100']
What makes you so sure he's "dumb"? He scored a 27 on the Wonderlic...
[/quote]

And Wonderlics mean nothing about football intelligence anyway. Dan Marino scored a 16 on his and Donovan McNabb a 14, I believe. I'm pretty sure both of those guys were at least "somewhat" successful in this league. 27 is about average for a quarterback.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325097087' post='925173']

And Wonderlics mean nothing about football intelligence anyway.  Dan Marino scored a 16 on his and Donovan McNabb a 14, I believe.  I'm pretty sure both of those guys were at least "somewhat" successful in this league.  27 is about average for a quarterback.
[/quote]
Even still, I'd love to see facts proving that Flacco is "dumb"...

[Alexir]

Will we replace Flacco? No
Should we replace Flacco? Depends on our salary situation. If we are tight and it comes down to keeping him with his extension or a guy like Webb, I'm taking Webb everytime because he shows up more consistently. You build your football team around consistency.

Overall, Flacco isn't going anywhere but if our next offensive coordinator can't get more out of him, then someone better send him on his way. 4th year Quarterbacks who have played over 65+ games should be playing at a much higher level.

[Alexir]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325097391' post='925185']
Even still, I'd love to see facts proving that Flacco is "dumb"...
[/quote]
He's from Jersey? lol

[The Raven]

[quote name='itscbm5042' timestamp='1325090323' post='925069']
There are a few issues at play here. One, is that the fanbase in general knows that the Ravens would be border line unbeatable every game with an ultra elite QB like Rodgers or Brees and we want desperately for Flacco to become that. He has more arm strength than Brees, he has more size than Rodgers...but here is what people forget. Flacco... is not very smart. He just will never have that high football IQ that the ultra elite QBs possess. His physical attributes will take him pretty far, but he is just not a very smart guy and his development has been retarded by Cam Cameron's awful play calling and QB/Coach protocol. There is no reason on God's green Earth why Flacco shouldn't be wearing a wrist band in his 4th year. Unacceptable. There is no reason he should take a sack with 7 seconds to throw, unacceptable.

He is a big guy, he is a strong guy, but is a DUMB guy. The truth hurts. Now personally I like Flacco and can't wait to see what he can do without Cameron holding him down any further. But Flacco should be throwing for 4,000+ and 30+ TDs every year on a team like this. Instead he has hit a plateu of 20-25TDs and 3500 yards and that just isn't good enough, because we know he can be better. He should never have these 190yd 0TD games he puts up every once in awhile.

Next year, give him the wrist band, make sure he focuses on leading receivers and is getting used to throwing in front of Smith and Evans (a combo of Flacco's arm and Torrey's speed should be absolutely deadly if they can consistently get on the same page). The guy only had receivers like Derrick Mason, Boldin, and Housh to throw to for the first 3 years. This is why he underthrows receivers, he hasn't been able to recognize the vastly increased speed and his muscle memory is still in slow receiver mode. He HAS to break that.

Flacco could be better, he can be very good, but he will never be ultra elite because is not a very smart QB and that is partially due to Cameron infecting him with his God awful approach and being surrounded by slow receivers for his early development years.
[/quote]

Lolwut.

Is this a joke?

It has to be.

Is it?

[arnie_uk]

i agree with all he said apart from the "dumb" comment... None of us here can say he is smart or dumb tbh, unless we know him personally

[True]

[quote name='itscbm5042' timestamp='1325090323' post='925069']
[i]-snip-[/i]
Flacco could be better, he can be very good, but he will never be ultra elite because is not a very smart QB and that is partially due to Cameron infecting him with his God awful approach and being surrounded by slow receivers for his early development years.
[/quote]
This is a question I've thought for a while. Kind of like the chicken in the egg. Is Flacco's football IQ not there yet (not talking about mental intelligence) that he can make adjustments and audibles at the LOS or does Cam Cameron want to strictly follow his game plan?

I think that's why many want Cam to go. We've had the same system + QB for four years but it hasn't advanced as far as we've hoped. You don't see many pre-snap audibles, line shifts, motions, etc; This year I have noticed Q playing in the slot more or having receivers in bunch formation so it has slightly gotten more complicated. We want Joe Flacco to take a giant leap and become a field general but it hasn't come to fruition yet.

Listening to other QBs and their OC relationship there is a slight power struggle that isn't only common to the Ravens. OCs want everything run their way or the highway, but if the QB is good enough they'll give them more control to change stuff. The common word I always hear is "trust" and having faith that the QB will execute. That trust is hard to gain and requires a ton of experience.

Is it Joe or Cam's fault? I don't know, but as a fan I know the offense has to be much better and I think it will in the future.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325097391' post='925185']
Even still, I'd love to see facts proving that Flacco is "dumb"...
[/quote]

Exactly. I don't know what his college grades were, but he obviously passed. And I'm sure the front office did their due diligence when drafting him. People seem to forget that by insinuating things like this, they are basically saying the front office is dumb for taking a guy who lacks intelligence. Besides the average score for a qb is a 24, so Flacco is actually above average. Peyton Manning scored a 28, and that guy might be the most "intelligent" quarterback in the history of the game. Now, I believe Jeff George scored a 10, Vince Young scored a 6 the first time and a 14 on the retake, and we see how their careers turned out. But still to me, scoring anything below a 15 on that exam (have you seen one) is someone who really isn't trying.

[Moderator 3]

Dumb? The Flacco-bashing has reached a new low.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1325099260' post='925220']
This is a question I've thought for a while. Kind of like the chicken in the egg. Is Flacco's football IQ not there yet (not talking about mental intelligence) that he can make adjustments and audibles at the LOS or does Cam Cameron want to strictly follow his game plan?

I think that's why many want Cam to go. We've had the same system + QB for four years but it hasn't advanced as far as we've hoped. You don't see many pre-snap audibles, line shifts, motions, etc; This year I have noticed Q playing in the slot more or having receivers in bunch formation so it has slightly gotten more complicated. We want Joe Flacco to take a giant leap and become a field general but it hasn't come to fruition yet.

Listening to other QBs and their OC relationship there is a slight power struggle that isn't only common to the Ravens. OCs want everything run their way or the highway, but if the QB is good enough they'll give them more control to change stuff. The common word I always hear is "trust" and having faith that the QB will execute. That trust is hard to gain and requires a ton of experience.

Is it Joe or Cam's fault? I don't know, but as a fan I know the offense has to be much better and I think it will in the future.
[/quote]

The one thing I can say about Cam Cameron, going back to his days in San Diego and when he was in Miami, the players will tell you he is a control freak. He has a hard time sharing any kind of power he has. You can look that up on fanboards and articles from both 2007 in Miami and pre-2007 when he was with the Chargers. And former Ravens tight end LJ Smith was on a radio interview where he said the same thing. Smith said basically that Cam has an "I'm the smartest guy in the room" and an "it's my way or the highway" complex.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1325099503' post='925225']
Dumb? The Flacco-bashing has reached a new low.
[/quote]

I guess the bashers are just running out of things to say.