Who Will Our New Qb Be ?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='ROH522155' timestamp='1324937507' post='923410']

That's been lost for a long long time now. Probably since the days when he was clamoring for Troy Smith to start over Flacco.
[/quote]

Yeah you can tell from all the people he wants over Flacco that his issue isn't Flacco and whether or not he is good but he wants a certain type of QB. He wants that RB playing QB like Tebow and Vick which is what it seems to be with many of the Flacco haters club. So just come out and say the truth. Hey I know Flacco has led us to wins but I'd rather have this type of QB. No need to make stuff up to make Flacco look bad.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1324936334' post='923388']

You lost all credibility when you said Tebow looked better than Flacco.

13/30 4 INTs 2 for pick 6's
[/quote]

But didn't you hear? Quarterbacks that can run and scramble are better than pocket passers! I thought everybody knew that! Running QBs are better and are better equipped to win than slow pocket passers! That's why Troy should have 3 rings by now. Tyrod will start next year and set records.


[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]

[RivenHale]

Running quarterbacks like Vick are more fun to watch for a casual fan, because they can do goofy things that shouldn't BE possible. Back when he was playing, Jay Cutler made me shout "Holy CRAP" more often than any other player ever, and Vick is the same kind of guy. But he's not who you want. Maybe eventually, if the rules keep changing, maybe. But right now, you want a guy who stands about 6'6, weighs in around 250, and throws the ball a mile. A guy who can run if he really NEEDS to, and a guy who simply does not falter under any sort of pressure.

I just wish we had a guy like that on the roster. Maybe we can pick him up out of a school from Delaware, or something? I don't know, I'm just spitballing here.

[Alexir]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1324916587' post='923082']
Are you being sarcastic?
[/quote]
Nope just playing devil's advocate.

But seriously though, do we give this guy an extenstion when he is having a SENIOR SLUMP when we have some big names to re-sign in the next 2 seasons?

I wouldn't cut him at all but I would definitely consider offers for him....

[K-Dog]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1324909950' post='923008']
Why hasn't this thread been shut down yet?
[/quote]


I dunno, I am pretty much done with it. I am not sorry I started it. I think I made my point to some , and to some degree.
Ultimately we are fans and not one bit more.
The team, and coaching staff is neither hired nor fired based on our input.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1324937710' post='923413']
No need to make stuff up to make Flacco look bad.
[/quote]

Well, how else are you going to make Flacco look bad? Certainly not by bringing actual facts into the equation...only way to do it is by offering up some halfass observation or cherry picking certain plays while ignoring everything else.

[balimore]

I think Flacco would become much better once we rid of Cam

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1324941543' post='923474']
Nope just playing devil's advocate.

But seriously though, do we give this guy an extenstion when he is having a SENIOR SLUMP when we have some big names to re-sign in the next 2 seasons?

I wouldn't cut him at all but I would definitely consider offers for him....
[/quote]

Lol @ senior slump, that is such a skewed perspective.

When he got here it was "he's a developmental guy, won't start for a couple of seasons." But then, because he overachieved in his first season, everyone just forgot that. Now he's held to the same standard as #1 picks who were drafted to start on day one. Now he's a "senior," and his time to prove himself is up.

He's played more games to this point in his career than any QB in history, and he wasn't even supposed to start on day one. That's pretty crazy.

[respecttheRaven]

I wish people would just leave Joe alone. Go bash someone else's QB. Not ours!!!!!

[Dfence4champs2052]

Bring back Trent Dilfer. He has hardware.

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1324941543' post='923474']
Nope just playing devil's advocate.

But seriously though, do we give this guy an extenstion when he is having a SENIOR SLUMP when we have some big names to re-sign in the next 2 seasons?

I wouldn't cut him at all but I would definitely consider offers for him....
[/quote]

I had to thumbs up that one. someone gave you a neg. Like I said earlier I love joe flacco but if we didnt have the defense we have now
we would be a 500 ball club. We have a QB that yes can win a game for you but also can lose it just as fast. But he is not a rookie or a second year guy.

[flynismo]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1324963702' post='923814']
We have a QB that yes can win a game for you but also can lose it just as fast.
[/quote]

How many games has Flacco lost for us? I can count on one hand how many times we lost and said to myself, "Damn that Flacco. We would have won if not for him."

On the flip side of the coin, our defense lost us the games verse TEN and SD. Poor play on defense accounted for half our losses. Poor play on offense accounted for the other two. So no, I don't think we're a .500 team without our defense anymore than I think we're a .500 team without our offense, especially since our offense bailed out our defense with some big wins this year (ARI, CIN, second PIT game).

Team effort....it's not like the old days anymore where the defense won all our games for us, because our defense isn't nearly as good anymore.

[BmoreRavens732]

I cant stand the haters so im just gonna try not to get banned....GO FLACCO!!!

[sandwich]

[quote name='RayRiceFan27' timestamp='1324937352' post='923409']


Ok, so if we get rid of joe, and draft another QB, wont we have to wait a few years for that QB to develop, and wont our D get old while we wait for another qb to develop? Also, if we get rid of Joe and sign some old guy as a plug, wont it be a year for him to get used to our WR, and team untill he plays well, and wont our D just get old waiting for him to get acustom to our system?

The bottom line is no matter what we do our D will only get older. We cant expect to just get another QB and just expect him to just come in and get us a SB ring in a short time. I know, alot hate Flacco on here, but many need to realize he is still out best option at QB right now. If we get rid of Joe? I dont see us getting a ring anytime soon, and if we try to trade for a good QB, there go our good players, because you know darn well a good QB is going to come with a large asking price. There is no happy medium right now.

Im still waiting for alot of you to answer the ops questions. Ive seen all neg flacco comments but no solutions. I cant stand it when people complain and dont give any solutions. So Im with the op, what do you guys expect to do? WHAT IS THE ANSWER?
[/quote]

Our Defense is actually pretty young. Aside from Ray and Ed we have a youth movement.

Corners: Carey Williams, Lardarius Webb, Jimmy Smith are all YOUNG. Carr is not an old man himself either.

DL: McPhee and Kruger are studs and young. Suggs in just hitting his prime, he is gonna murder the league and even when he gets old will still be nasty. Ngata is just about to hit his prime himself.

LB: McLain is great I like Ellerbe and hoping for kindle to make strides next year. We are not as deep here but we are always good at drafting LB's.

No Concern ffrom me about our D getting older. We are going to compete for a LONG time!

BTW. I like Flacco because I still remember what what we had before, especially Kyle Boller

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1324974174' post='923888']

How many games has Flacco lost for us? I can count on one hand how many times we lost and said to myself, "Damn that Flacco. We would have won if not for him."

On the flip side of the coin, our defense lost us the games verse TEN and SD. Poor play on defense accounted for half our losses. Poor play on offense accounted for the other two. So no, I don't think we're a .500 team without our defense anymore than I think we're a .500 team without our offense, especially since our offense bailed out our defense with some big wins this year (ARI, CIN, second PIT game).

Team effort....it's not like the old days anymore where the defense won all our games for us, because our defense isn't nearly as good anymore.
[/quote]

Well to be honest saying only a handful is kinda under doing if your saying I over did it. I didn't say all the games our defense wins for us. If you look at the stats when we don't run a lot we lose as to say if we have to put the ball in Joes hands we lose way more then we win. I think Suggs said that we should run ray run as a way to say well if the QB has to win the game then we are sunk.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1324840759' post='922521']

Those are the only QB's on that list that have an excellent supporting cast. Peyton Manning always plays with the next man up, but Flacco just underthrows his. Cam Newton's WR core is pitiful besides Steve Smith, but hey, he just broke the record for most passing yards for a rookie. Brees' WR core is ok, he's just an excellent QB and can make anyone look good. You keep saying that the AFC North "needs a certain type of QB". That's just an excuse, and if you ask me, you're in denial about Flacco. I'll give him time show what he's really made of when Cam Cameron leaves, but until then, he's extremely inconsistent.
[/quote]

Brees' wide receiver corps is [i]okay[/i]? Colston may have been a 6th round draft pick, but he's a flat out stud. Jimmy Graham is another flat out stud. Lance Moore, Robert Meachem, Devrey Henderson, these guys would be number 1 or number 2 types receivers on a lot of other teams. Brees is phenomenal, but his receiving corps might be the second best in all of football behind Green Bay's. Actually, according to Bleacher Report, he has the best receiving corps in all of football. Their rank (from July) is New Orleans, Pittsburgh, the Giants, the Jets, the Cowboys, the Colts, the Packers, the Ravens, the Eagles the Broncos. Of course, it's worth pointing out that the guy still lists Mason, Stallworth, and Heap as being part of the Ravens, still has Brandon Lloyd on the Broncos, etc. Although I'm shocked he doesn't have the Patriots listed on there. Between Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez that's a flat-out deadly team. I'll give you the link.

[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/732309-nfl-ranking-and-analyzing-the-10-best-wide-receiving-corps-in-the-nfl/page/11"]http://bleacherrepor...the-nfl/page/11[/url]

[Irish Raven]

[quote name='Irish Raven' timestamp='1324806586' post='922230']
Troy Smith

You know it's the answer lol
[/quote]

Red arrowed for this?

Clearly some posters have zero sense of humour

Maybe they thought I was serious

[K-Dog]

[quote name='Irish Raven' timestamp='1324998899' post='923995']


Red arrowed for this?

Clearly some posters have zero sense of humour

Maybe they thought I was serious
[/quote]

Sad fact is, there are those who truly believe Smith is better than Flacco. Better than most in the NFL at that.

[Ravenslifer]

Is this thread still going on? Seriously? How about we all focus on Cinci and getting a first-round bye.

[nk02442]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1324974174' post='923888']

How many games has Flacco lost for us? I can count on one hand how many times we lost and said to myself, "Damn that Flacco. We would have won if not for him."

On the flip side of the coin, our defense lost us the games verse TEN and SD. Poor play on defense accounted for half our losses. Poor play on offense accounted for the other two. So no, I don't think we're a .500 team without our defense anymore than I think we're a .500 team without our offense, especially since our offense bailed out our defense with some big wins this year (ARI, CIN, second PIT game).

Team effort....it's not like the old days anymore where the defense won all our games for us, because our defense isn't nearly as good anymore.
[/quote]
Our defense did not loose the game against SD. Our offense did. NO team , especially one built like ours could have stopped SD that night. Their Pass pro was perfect and rivers and his recievers were spot on. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCORE POINTS TO WIN. Sometimes games become shootouts. You think we could stop NO or GB any better? Hell no. You have to score points to beat the best teams, its just how the game has evolved. Our offense was pathetic. The fact that we couldnt stop them was all the more reason to keep TOP to keep Rivers off the field. If we were able to move the ball, keep possesion, and not go 3 and out that would have been a competitive game. I am not sure we would have won it, but we wouldnt have gotten blown out. Like I have said before, our D and ST has plenty of flaws that need to be fixed, but any of the top offenses would kill to have our defense. Our Defense is the reason the ravens have been a playoff team the last 10 years.

[The Raven]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1324997608' post='923979']

Well to be honest saying only a handful is kinda under doing if your saying I over did it. I didn't say all the games our defense wins for us. If you look at the stats when we don't run a lot we lose as to say if we have to put the ball in Joes hands we lose way more then we win. I think Suggs said that we should run ray run as a way to say well if the QB has to win the game then we are sunk.
[/quote]

No. He said that because Rice is a freakin animal. He is our best player and needs the ball. That's why he said it. Suggs has put himself out there to defend and support Joe.

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1325002912' post='924043']
Our defense did not loose the game against SD. Our offense did. NO team , especially one built like ours could have stopped SD that night. Their Pass pro was perfect and rivers and his recievers were spot on. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCORE POINTS TO WIN. Sometimes games become shootouts. You think we could stop NO or GB any better? Hell no. You have to score points to beat the best teams, its just how the game has evolved. Our offense was pathetic. The fact that we couldnt stop them was all the more reason to keep TOP to keep Rivers off the field. If we were able to move the ball, keep possesion, and not go 3 and out that would have been a competitive game. I am not sure we would have won it, but we wouldnt have gotten blown out. Like I have said before, our D and ST has plenty of flaws that need to be fixed, but any of the top offenses would kill to have our defense. Our Defense is the reason the ravens have been a playoff team the last 10 years.
[/quote]

The offense was abysmal. Agreed. But, the defense has to be able to keep it close in order for the team to do well. When the defense doesn't force a single punt, you can't tell me honestly that the defense has nothing to do with the loss.

[3-4ravdef509]

Right....because Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Steve Young, and every great quarterback had reached his potential by year 4........why are people here so dense? Yes, he needs to play better, but guess what: all quarterbacks in their 4th year have much room to improve. And we wouldn't have made it to the playoffs 4 years in a row without him. Just ask Boller and every other crap qb that played with our great defense. And yes, he has accountability for us getting bounced out, but that doesn't mean he's a bad quarterback who needs replaced. If we tried, we'd be lucky to find someone half as good in a 3 year span in the draft or FO. All players have ups and downs, and Flacco will continue to improve. If we're in year 8 and he's still struggling, that is a much different story. But our lack of offensive weapons for most of his career and our crap OC have probably stunted his growth already. Yet, he's won more games than Dan Marino did in playing as man games from year 1 til nearing the end of their 4th. People, instead of hating, criticize when you must but try to support your quarterback too. I'd really hate to see him go and feel like the Chargers Front Office did when they saw Brees win a Super Bowl without them.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1325007438' post='924130']
Right....because Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Steve Young, and every great quarterback had reached his potential by year 4........why are people here so dense? Yes, he needs to play better, but guess what: all quarterbacks in their 4th year have much room to improve. And we wouldn't have made it to the playoffs 4 years in a row without him. Just ask Boller and every other crap qb that played with our great defense. And yes, he has accountability for us getting bounced out, but that doesn't mean he's a bad quarterback who needs replaced. If we tried, we'd be lucky to find someone half as good in a 3 year span in the draft or FO. All players have ups and downs, and Flacco will continue to improve. If we're in year 8 and he's still struggling, that is a much different story. But our lack of offensive weapons for most of his career and our crap OC have probably stunted his growth already. Yet, he's won more games than Dan Marino did in playing as man games from year 1 til nearing the end of their 4th. People, instead of hating, criticize when you must but try to support your quarterback too[b]. I'd really hate to see him go and feel like the Chargers Front Office did when they saw Brees win a Super Bowl without them.[/b]
[/quote]

Yeah, although if it happened it would be very entertaining to see what his detractors would say. "Oh look, if they won it all with crappy Joe Flacco, imagine what we could have done with Troy Smith." I've come to realize that a lot of people who knock Flacco really just want an athlete at quarterback like Michael Vick or Vince Young or Cam Newton. Joe doesn't fit the mold they want, so by default he must suck.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325007715' post='924135']

Yeah, although if it happened it would be very entertaining to see what his detractors would say. "Oh look, if they won it all with crappy Joe Flacco, imagine what we could have done with Troy Smith." I've come to realize that a lot of people who knock Flacco really just want an athlete at quarterback like Michael Vick or Vince Young or Cam Newton. Joe doesn't fit the mold they want, so by default he must suck.
[/quote]

How many superbowls and playoff games have athletic quarterbacks won? Just curious.....................................Exactly. My point.\

You're probably right in your assessment though. Which is sad.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1325007843' post='924139']

How many superbowls and playoff games have athletic quarterbacks won? Just curious.....................................Exactly. My point.\

You're probably right in your assessment though. Which is sad.
[/quote]

I would say off the top of my head that the two guys who stand out are Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers. Both of whom, by the way, are first and foremost two of the finest passers in NFL history. Here's a better example. Randall Cunningham was far and away the better athlete than Ron Jaworski. Yet Jaworski is the guy who went 4-4 in the playoffs and led the Eagles to the Superbowl, while Cunningham lost his first 3 playoff games, went 3-6 in the playoffs and won more playoffs games at the end of his career with Minnesota (2) then he did during his prime in Philadelphia (1).

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325008272' post='924143']

I would say off the top of my head that the two guys who stand out are Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers. Both of whom, by the way, are first and foremost two of the finest passers in NFL history. Here's a better example. Randall Cunningham was far and away the better athlete than Ron Jaworski. Yet Jaworski is the guy who went 4-4 in the playoffs and led the Eagles to the Superbowl, while Cunningham lost his first 3 playoff games, went 3-6 in the playoffs and won more playoffs games at the end of his career with Minnesota (2) then he did during his prime in Philadelphia (1).
[/quote]

Were they really athletic quarterbacks, or pocket passes with good mobility. Maybe Young can be considered more of an athlete, but neither or anything like Vick, Young, or Newton in my mind. They could run, but not as a result of great athletic skills like those guys,

[ArmyRavensFan]

The Baltimore Fan base lives in a New York Yankees world without a salary cap where we can be elite at every position. As it stands the Ravens are well rounded team with an elite defense and top 5 running back. How do the defenses with the Elite QBs such as Green Bay, New Orleans, New England, and Indianapolis stack up? How about their running backs? Yes these QBs can carry their teams by themselves but at the risk that if they go down then their team’s season is over (ex. Patriots 2008, Colts 2011). The reason being that these QBs eat a large portion of the salary cap and thus the teams have less money to add supporting cast. Baltimore has the luxury of winning a variety of ways. All teams have weaknesses but if fans think Joe Flacco is the Raven’s primary weakness, then the Ravens we are in good shape.

A lot of threads and columnists have written about Baltimore’s lack of identity. The fact is that Baltimore’s Identity has always been smash mouth football. A hard hitting, punch you in the mouth football team with great defense and a solid running game. Baltimore is a team that no one wants to play against because even if you pull out a victory over Baltimore, you are going to come out timid and hurting. That is who we are and I wouldn’t want it any other way. So if this is our identity, I do not expect to win a shootout and I place the blame for games like San Diego on the defense. An Elite defense should never allow 34 points, period.

So with that said, what about Joe Flacco and the Ravens future. His contract is coming up but so are several other key individuals such as Ben Grubbs and Ray Rice. Webb’s contract is not that far off either. I like Joe Flacco and I think he is a good fit for Baltimore but I believe Ray Rice and Ben Grubbs are more important to this team’s identity. Now if Joe Flacco takes a contract extension at the right price (far cheaper than an elite QB) and we are able to keep Rice and Grubbs, then I think Joe Flacco is our QB of the future. If Joe Flacco remains our QB though, I do think it is time to move on from Cam Cameron and see how Joe progresses under a different system. I am not saying Cam is the problem, but his system might not be the right fit for Joe. Either way, the Ravens need to find out.

[flynismo]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1325002912' post='924043']
Our defense did not loose the game against SD. Our offense did. NO team , especially one built like ours could have stopped SD that night. Their Pass pro was perfect and rivers and his recievers were spot on. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCORE POINTS TO WIN. Sometimes games become shootouts. You think we could stop NO or GB any better? Hell no. You have to score points to beat the best teams, its just how the game has evolved. Our offense was pathetic. The fact that we couldnt stop them was all the more reason to keep TOP to keep Rivers off the field. If we were able to move the ball, keep possesion, and not go 3 and out that would have been a competitive game. I am not sure we would have won it, but we wouldnt have gotten blown out. Like I have said before, our D and ST has plenty of flaws that need to be fixed, but any of the top offenses would kill to have our defense. Our Defense is the reason the ravens have been a playoff team the last 10 years.
[/quote]


So, you're saying that asking your offense to travel 3000 miles and scoring 35+ points (which is what we needed to do since our defense gave up 34) is reasonable to expect?

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1325008546' post='924149']

Were they really athletic quarterbacks, or pocket passes with good mobility. Maybe Young can be considered more of an athlete, but neither or anything like Vick, Young, or Newton in my mind. They could run, but not as a result of great athletic skills like those guys,
[/quote]

Whatever the term is athlete, mobile qb, history shows that to be a great quarterback first and foremost you have to be a great pocket passer. Roethlisberger is also a very athletic guy and is one of the best all time at turning broken plays into big gains. But most of the damage that he, Rodgers, Steve Young, etc. did/do are from inside the pocket. That's partly why I think Cam Newton will succeed where Vick and Vince Young failed, because unlike them, he is a tremendous pocket passer that only uses his running ability as a compliment, just like Rodgers and Big Ben do.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325008834' post='924157']

Whatever the term is athlete, mobile qb, history shows that to be a great quarterback first and foremost you have to be a great pocket passer. Roethlisberger is also a very athletic guy and is one of the best all time at turning broken plays into big gains. But most of the damage that he, Rodgers, Young, etc. did/do are from inside the pocket. That's partly why I think Cam Newton will succeed where Vick and Young failed, because unlike them, he is a tremendous pocket passer that only uses his running ability as a compliment, just like Rodgers and Big Ben do.
[/quote]

Very true. That's the biggest point to be made.