Who Will Our New Qb Be ?

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1324831732' post='922397']
If Joe can't lead us to a victory over the Bengals next week[b] I really think we need to give Tyrod Taylor a shot in the playoffs.[/b] We would play either the Broncos or the Raiders in the 1st round and I think he could lead us to a victory over either of those two teams.
[/quote]
Wow i can't believe this. Not going to Neg you though. But you can't be serious.

[wizard1]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324856787' post='922698']

said the guy that assured us we would be swept by the Steelers and Flacco would be benched for Tyrod who would lead us to victory.

And you don't think this has the least bit to do with Cam becoming the new QB coach and being the OC? Last year Zorn was QB coach, this year Cam. Last year good, this year not so much. Interesting!
[/quote]
Cam doesn't have anything to do with natural fundamentals and football instincts. You can't teach speed and make someone not be afraid under pressure.You don't train someone to be a leader or force inspiration. Flacco will continue to flounder-a leopard cannot change his spots. Flacco is what he is and for the rest of this season he is what we have.

[Ravenslifer]

Here's some numbers that are more comprehensible.

Tom Brady first 4 season quarterback ratings:

86.5, 85.7, 85.9, 92.6

Drew Brees first 4 season quarterback ratings:

76.9, 67.5, 104.8, 89.2

Brett Favre first 4 season quarterback ratings:

85.3, 72.2, 90.7, 99.5

Peyton Manning first 4 season quarterback ratings:

71.2, 90.7, 94.7, 84.1

Keep in mind that all four of those guys are going to the Hall of Fame.

Joe Flacco first 4 season quarterback ratings:

80.3, 88.9, 93.6, 79.7

Again, Flacco hasn't been as great as some of these seasons, but he hasn't been as poor either.

[wizard1]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324857057' post='922703']


Really? You really think the defense is why we struggle? That Chargers game, no doubt what-so-ever. Even with that game, they're the #4 and #2 (Pass - 193.9yds/game & Rush - 91.8yds/game) defense in the NFL after 16 weeks. But they hold more blame than the offense and Flacco?

I even saw someone ragging on the defense for yesterday. They tried to give it away ... the defense is crumbling. Really?

Yesterday the defense held Cleveland to 256 total yards, 5-13 on 3rd down, 0-1 on 4th down, one TD and no field goals while getting one INT and two sacks. And that's not good enough? What more do you expect a defense to do? Now are we asking them to score too?

The lengths people go to on these forums to shield Flacco from criticism amazes me at times.
[/quote]
So true=there are some very uninspirational Flacco pom pom wavers around here. Our defense is the reason we are where we are THATS THE TRUTH.

[The Raven]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1324857315' post='922707']
Cam doesn't have anything to do with natural fundamentals and football instincts. You can't teach speed and make someone not be afraid under pressure.You don't train someone to be a leader or force inspiration. Flacco will continue to flounder-a leopard cannot change his spots. Flacco is what he is and for the rest of this season he is what we have.
[/quote]

When a QB takes a step back, and his QB coach is changed, well, that can't be just a coincidence, and its naive to assume that.

So you are suggesting that we are going to sign Rivers?

[wizard1]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324856969' post='922702']


And what "side of the street" do you hear this from?
[/quote]
UH that would be the opposite side of the street from you.

[ROH522155]

Anybody who thinks the Chargers will let Rivers walk is a FOOL.

[wizard1]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324857510' post='922713']

When a QB takes a step back, and his QB coach is changed, well, that can't be just a coincidence, and its naive to assume that.

So you are suggesting that we are going to sign Rivers?
[/quote]
A possible trade that brings Norv Turner along as OC-of course that would be way down the road - we still have football to focus on.

[Ravensstrike4424]

we dont live in who world

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324857057' post='922703']


Really? You really think the defense is why we struggle? That Chargers game, no doubt what-so-ever. Even with that game, they're the #4 and #2 (Pass - 193.9yds/game & Rush - 91.8yds/game) defense in the NFL after 16 weeks. But they hold more blame than the offense and Flacco?

I even saw someone ragging on the defense for yesterday. They tried to give it away ... the defense is crumbling. Really?

Yesterday the defense held Cleveland to 256 total yards, 5-13 on 3rd down, 0-1 on 4th down, one TD and no field goals while getting one INT and two sacks. And that's not good enough? What more do you expect a defense to do? Now are we asking them to score too?

The lengths people go to on these forums to shield Flacco from criticism amazes me at times.
[/quote]

Nobody is shielding him. They guy has been inconsistent and needs to step up. But from the tone of some of the posters on here, apparently if we'd put Tyrod Taylor in from game one we'd be undefeated. At times, every player and every unit has struggled. Flacco more than most. Nobody would dispute that. What I'm tired of is people pretending that this is all Flacco will ever be, and that he can't get better, especially if given a better OC and gameplan. The point a lot of us are trying to make is that almost every quarterback Cam Cameron has tutored has struggled under him and his system, and several of them like Drew Brees and Philip Rivers have gone on to great success without him. The front office really blundered letting Zorn and Saunders go to keep Cam, and almost every former Ravens player and quite a few analysts have said so.

Joe needs to step up. But some people here keep insisting that he is the only problem on this team, and that by replacing him we'd be better off. That's what a lot of us are getting sick of. That and certain posters, who I will not name, who only get on here to bash Flacco, never bash anyone else because apparently every one of our other players is a pro bowler or hall of famer and all of them are being held back by Flacco. The other day some guy made a statement that if it wasn't for Flacco both Torrey and Q would have passed 1000 yards receiving already, and apparently Torrey, despite being a rookie, makes Flacco look better instead of the other way around. All the credit goes to the receivers, Ray Rice, the line, and it's like the games against Pittsburgh were either flukes or it was really Tyrod Taylor in disguise, because Flacco gets almost no credit from anyone on this board for what he did. The Ravens win as a team and lose as a team, and I, and am sure a lot of other people, are getting tired of all the threads that are always about Flacco. Why are there never threads about Michael Oher being drafted as a left tackle and not being able to play the position? Why are there no threads about Matt Birk really regressing and showing his age? Why are there very few threads about wide receivers continuing to drop perfectly thrown passes almost on a game by game basis? Why is it always a thread that attacks Flacco? Explain that to me.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1324857327' post='922708']
Here's some numbers that are more comprehensible.

Tom Brady first 4 season quarterback ratings:

86.5, 85.7, 85.9, 92.6

Drew Brees first 4 season quarterback ratings:

76.9, 67.5, 104.8, 89.2

Brett Favre first 4 season quarterback ratings:

85.3, 72.2, 90.7, 99.5

Peyton Manning first 4 season quarterback ratings:

71.2, 90.7, 94.7, 84.1

Keep in mind that all four of those guys are going to the Hall of Fame.

Joe Flacco first 4 season quarterback ratings:

80.3, 88.9, 93.6, 79.7

Again, Flacco hasn't been as great as some of these seasons, but he hasn't been as poor either.
[/quote]

Wow. Thank you for this productive post. They seem hard to find in Flacco topics, but this is good. Seen in plain sight, Manning, and Brees took fairly large steps back in their fourth years. For what it's worth, Doofusberger also took large steps back in his 3rd and 5th years.

[The Raven]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1324857556' post='922714']
UH that would be the opposite side of the street from you.
[/quote]
[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1324857716' post='922718']
A possible trade that brings Norv Turner along as OC-of course that would be way down the road - we still have football to focus on.
[/quote]

LOL. Okay dude, you win. I give up. These posts are borderline lunacy.

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324857846' post='922722']

For what it's worth, Doofusberger also took large steps back in his 3rd and 5th years.
[/quote]

For your information , I learned to crawl in my 3rd year and said my first word in my 5th. That's moving forward , not back.

And you could try to spell my name correctly , at the very least.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1324854734' post='922661']


Agreed lol. The level of homering is funny. Been reading these threads along time. People were saying the Webb and Kruger were busts lol and now everyone loves them. I believe in giving a player time to develop but with the QBs you either have it or you don't. Cant develop instincts and teach speed.
[/quote]

I can't stand it, this is EXACTLY the kind of post that I hate. You wanna write off a guy before he's even finished his fourth season? Go right ahead. But don't act like it's irrational for people to support him. I guarantee you that all of the QBs you think are so great went through the same exact things, with the exception of Brady and Roethlisberger because they won right away. People called Manning a choker before he won his first SB, and then they called him a choker for not winning a second! The guy is a HOF QB, and people say he choked because he got to a second SB, but didn't win it. Do you realize how absurd that is?

And btw...the fans that called Torrey, Kruger and Webb busts are fans like you. The fans defending Flacco are the type that are actually willing to give players a reasonable amount of time before writing them off. The idea that a QB either "has it or not" has to be one of the most pervasive, annoying myths out there. You'll be eating those words about Flacco soon enough.

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1324857772' post='922721']
The Ravens win as a team and lose as a team, and I, and am sure a lot of other people, are getting tired of all the threads that are always about Flacco. Why are there never threads about Michael Oher being drafted as a left tackle and not being able to play the position? Why are there no threads about Matt Birk really regressing and showing his age? Why are there very few threads about wide receivers continuing to drop perfectly thrown passes almost on a game by game basis? Why is it always a thread that attacks Flacco? Explain that to me.
[/quote]

Why is the QB position the only one with Win-Loss stats? Because they touch the ball 99.99% of the time and the entire offense flows from them. The average fan can't tell when Birk or Oher miss a gap assignment. They can't discern when a WR or TE runs the wrong route. They can't tell when a back who was supposed to stay in and block moves out of position.

But they can easily tell when a QB throws a pass 5 feet too high or skips a pass 4 feet short of his receiver. They can tell when a QB looks directly at a defender and continues holding the ball like a loaf of bread right up until the point it's slapped out of his hand for a fumble. They can tell when a QB throws late and behind open receivers. Highest criticism on the team will naturally flow to the QB, just like ridiculous amounts of praise go there.

Flacco isn't perfect, he has a lot more to learn and he has regressed this year in some key areas overall, that is obvious. In other ways he has also progressed. He is more vocal. He seems to be finally developing a pocket instinct though it comes and goes. I would find it hard to argue with anyone who made the case that Flacco would putting up true Pro-Bowl numbers if Zorn was still here and Cam was gone or backed off.

I simply can not in good faith take true stock of Flacco with Cam still here. Can't do it. He has to go.

[CapoRocky]

I really don't think that anyone will not favor resigning Flacco regardless of the outcome of this season. He knows the system, has an above average arm, and is mobile in the pocket. Flacco is tough, takes a hit well, and doesn't want to come out of the game regardless of the score. He has a winning attitude that is just starting to become apparent. I was watching the Browns game with my son and we heard Flacco screaming after Rice scored a touchdown. He sure didn't sound like a quiet guy at that moment. Sitting in section 124, we can hear much of what is said on the field, as long as it's said with emotion. Sometimes, it gets embarrassing when the players use colorful language. I wouldn't mind signing a taller backup to study under Flacco, but I'd be hard pressed to accept a veteran to replace him.

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1324858497' post='922733']

I can't stand it, this is EXACTLY the kind of post that I hate. You wanna write off a guy before he's even finished his fourth season? Go right ahead. But don't act like it's irrational for people to support him. I guarantee you that all of the QBs you think are so great went through the same exact things, with the exception of Brady and Roethlisberger because they won right away. People called Manning a choker before he won his first SB, and then they called him a choker for not winning a second! The guy is a HOF QB, and people say he choked because he got to a second SB, but didn't win it. Do you realize how absurd that is?

And btw...the fans that called Torrey, Kruger and Webb busts are fans like you. The fans defending Flacco are the type that are actually willing to give players a reasonable amount of time before writing them off.
[/quote]

Fact are the facts dude. I love Flacco but im not going to fight the stats man. Flacco has one of the best defenses year after year.Alot of those Qbs on that list put up big numbers and won games with terrible to mid tier defenses. Joe is not a guy who can do that. If he had tom brady's defense the ravens would finish behind the bengals. I mean look at the buffalo bills or the jets. those teams can't hide their Qb with defenses.

As far as the personal attack goes man. I can remember being one of those people who said kruger and webb have very good instincts and game speed. When they got regular playing time I said man when they develop they will be great. With Joe I just don't see that. He had a chance to prove that during the San diego(as well as the other sub 500 teams we lost to) game where the D played like the bills or jets d when the QB needed to hang with another Qb and he didnt.

[jaege]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324856969' post='922702']


And what "side of the street" do you hear this from?
[/quote]

That would be the side of the street that is "on the edge" right Wiz?

[jaege]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324857920' post='922724']

LOL. Okay dude, you win. I give up. These posts are borderline lunacy.
[/quote]

Have you seen some of this guys posts? Most of them are well over the border of lunacy, past the security check points, and deep into the down town region.

[ROH522155]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1324857556' post='922714']
UH that would be the opposite side of the street from you.
[/quote]

Don't forget to look both ways once we win it all.

[The Raven]

[quote name='BenDufusberger' timestamp='1324858223' post='922730']

For your information , I learned to crawl in my 3rd year and said my first word in my 5th. That's moving forward , not back.

And you could try to spell my name correctly , at the very least.
[/quote]

Hahahaha.

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1324859693' post='922753']

Have you seen some of this guys posts? Most of them are well over the border of lunacy, past the security check points, and deep into the down town region.
[/quote]

I have. I think I'll be done humoring him now. Lol the things I read on this board

[bauer77]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324857920' post='922724']

LOL. Okay dude, you win. I give up. These posts are borderline lunacy.
[/quote]


Woah woah woah. Watch it dude. Don't talk bad about him, he has inside sources from across the street! /sarcasm

No way the Chargers let Rivers walk. It just won't happen. And even if they do, he wont be coming here.

Joe Flacco is our QB. 4 straight playoff appearances in his first 4 years. You guys can say what you want about our stellar defense we have, and how they were the reason we have those 4 straight. But the fact of the matter is, if we had ANY of our previous QB's in our team's history, it wouldnt happen. Tyrod Taylor isn't the answer, and to all you Troy Smith lovers; go to the UFL. Flacco will not get any better until Cam is out of there. Cam is the problem here, not Flacco. As long as Cam is here, the training wheels will always be on for Flacco.

I know this is like arguing a lost cause for some of you people, but I figured I'd just put my two cents in. We could be sooooooo much worse off with some of the QB's these teams have, and yet some people still complain. Its ridiculous.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324857057' post='922703']


Really? You really think the defense is why we struggle? That Chargers game, no doubt what-so-ever. Even with that game, they're the #4 and #2 (Pass - 193.9yds/game & Rush - 91.8yds/game) defense in the NFL after 16 weeks. But they hold more blame than the offense and Flacco?

I even saw someone ragging on the defense for yesterday. They tried to give it away ... the defense is crumbling. Really?

Yesterday the defense held Cleveland to 256 total yards, 5-13 on 3rd down, 0-1 on 4th down, one TD and no field goals while getting one INT and two sacks. And that's not good enough? What more do you expect a defense to do? Now are we asking them to score too?

[u][i][b]The lengths people go to on these forums to shield Flacco from criticism amazes me at times.[/b][/i][/u]
[/quote]

You don't seem to understand. There's no need to shield Flacco. He's fine.

Do think the D is proud of their performance against the brownies? Hillis went through them like a wet paper bag. If they weren't the brownies, they would have scored just before half. Then the mighty brownies walked 80 yards down the field for a score at crunch time. ST allowed another touch. And everyone I know was begging that they would not get the ball again, 'cause they probably would have won. The D was given a 20 point lead in the 3rd quarter and almost blew it! Against the brownies!

Wake up man! The D is sucking bad and needs to pick it up or they are going to Fla. to play golf a lot earlier than they want to!!!!

And by the way, the lions seemed to be able to throttle the bolts pretty well yesterday. Kind of shines even more light on our D's performance in SD.

[wizard1]

[quote name='ROH522155' timestamp='1324857082' post='922704']

Are you honestly a fan of this team? It's a serious question because I can't fathom how one can be SO negative 24/7 and call themselves a fan of that team. Being a fan is all about having faith in your team.
[/quote]
I am a fan and supporter of the Batlimore Ravens as a team and organization but not a fan or supporter of Joe Flacco.

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1324861282' post='922768']

You don't seem to understand. There's no need to shield Flacco. He's fine.

Do think the D is proud of their performance against the brownies? Hillis went through them like a wet paper bag. If they weren't the brownies, they would have scored just before half. Then the mighty brownies walked 80 yards down the field for a score at crunch time. ST allowed another touch. And everyone I know was begging that they would not get the ball again, 'cause they probably would have won. The D was given a 20 point lead in the 3rd quarter and almost blew it! Against the brownies!

Wake up man! The D is sucking bad and needs to pick it up or they are going to Fla. to play golf a lot earlier than they want to!!!!

[b]And by the way, the lions seemed to be able to throttle the bolts pretty well yesterday. Kind of shines even more light on our D's performance in SD.[/b]
[/quote]

I hope you're kidding. D gave up 7 points ... period. And no, I bet the D isn't proud. They don't seem happy unless they shut a team out. And that's why they are as good as they are. They are never satisfied with letting a team score even one point.


You seem to have forgotten a small piece of that puzzle. The Lions threw up 38 points on the Chargers defense. How many points did the Ravens offense put up in that game? How many interceptions thrown? Please. If I had to point to which unit I am more worried about, it sure isn't going to be the Ravens defense.

[ROH522155]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1324861394' post='922770']
I am a fan and supporter of the Batlimore Ravens as a team and organization but not a fan or supporter of Joe Flacco.
[/quote]

This basically means you want Joe to do bad.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1324861394' post='922770']
I am a fan and supporter of the Batlimore Ravens as a team and organization but not a fan or supporter of Joe Flacco.
[/quote]

I remember when this guy proclaimed that he was a believer in Flacco and that he was taking back everything he said, after the 92 yard drive in Pittsburgh. Hilarious.

Dude, you don't have a choice. If you want the Ravens to do well, you want Flacco to do well. And if he doesn't win this season, they're still gonna stick with him. So get used to it buddy.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324862509' post='922783']

I hope you're kidding. D gave up 7 points ... period. And no, I bet the D isn't proud. They don't seem happy unless they shut a team out. And that's why they are as good as they are. They are never satisfied with letting a team score even one point.


You seem to have forgotten a small piece of that puzzle. [u][i][b]The Lions threw up 38 points on the Chargers defense.[/b][/i][/u] How many points did the Ravens offense put up in that game? How many interceptions thrown? Please. If I had to point to which unit I am more worried about, it sure isn't going to be the Ravens defense.
[/quote]

The lions put up 38 points because their offense was on the field, not the sideline watching their D get smoked!

And no, I'm not kidding. Are you telling me you had faith in the D at the end of the game yesterday? Thank God Joe was able to pull the brownies off side and we didn't have to give them the ball. I'm afraid they would have scored.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324862509' post='922783']

I hope you're kidding. D gave up 7 points ... period. And no, I bet the D isn't proud. They don't seem happy unless they shut a team out. And that's why they are as good as they are. They are never satisfied with letting a team score even one point.


You seem to have forgotten a small piece of that puzzle. The Lions threw up 38 points on the Chargers defense. How many points did the Ravens offense put up in that game? How many interceptions thrown? Please. If I had to point to which unit I am more worried about, it sure isn't going to be the Ravens defense.
[/quote]

The Lions defense shut out the Chargers in the first half. It was a tough road game for us, and the Chargers had a tough road game as well. But we haven't exactly played the "shredding" type of QB this season. I wonder how our defense would do against Brady, Brees or Rodgers. They've given us plenty to worry about with the CB injuries as well.

[CapoRocky]

I remember reading that Turner's job was on the line if they didn't win in Detroit. We want a new OC. I think I've found a match.