Who Will Our New Qb Be ?

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1325545279' post='932328']

but we arent talking about last season I said this season and going into next year which what this thread is suppose to be about.
[/quote]
the threads actually about who you would replace him with since so many peopl want his head... no one has came up with a reasonable answer

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1325545717' post='932338']
the threads actually about who you would replace him with since so many peopl want his head... no one has came up with a reasonable answer
[/quote]

That's because there are no reasonable answers. The only guys who could do better here than Flacco are already well established on their teams, and most of them have Superbowl rings.

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1325545717' post='932338']
the threads actually about who you would replace him with since so many peopl want his head... no one has came up with a reasonable answer
[/quote]

Yes and early I said they should bring in a vet because next year is Joes contract year. Before everyone got off topic(myself included) The defense might lose lose ray ed ben rice and webb next year to retirement/fa so flacco will be asked to do more.

[arnie_uk]

a vet as in? ....... Peyton Manning? Kerry Collins? "a Vet" is a very vague answer.. and im assuming you mean this vet takes over and flacco gets dropped down to no.2 QB?

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='atlravensfan' timestamp='1325546225' post='932354']

Yes and early I said [b]they should bring in a vet[/b] because next year is Joes contract year. Before everyone got off topic(myself included) The defense might lose lose ray ed ben rice and webb next year to retirement/fa so flacco will be asked to do more.
[/quote]

I really don't see a whole lot of options out there. Kyle Orton maybe? Jason Campbell? Sad to say, Donovan McNabb may be finished in this league. The rest include names like Chris Redman, David Carr, Chad Henne, Mark Brunell, Derek Anderson (though Redmann and Anderson returning would be pretty interesting since we drafted them).

[deathbird52]

Joe should be our QB next season. The only reason I wouldn't want him if he wants too much money. I just don't think any player should get paid $15 million unless their a HOF caliber player. If he wants more than $14 million he can walk.

[arnie_uk]

no way he asks for that, tahts brees manning and brady money, hes not a shelfish idiot... i dont think lol

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='deathbird52' timestamp='1325547168' post='932387']
Joe should be our QB next season. The only reason I wouldn't want him if he wants too much money. I just don't think any player should get paid $15 million unless their a HOF caliber player. If he wants more than $14 million he can walk.
[/quote]

Like I said, both he and Rice should expect somewhere between 8-10 million, because that's where they are compared to the rest of their counterparts in the league. 8-10 million is tope 5 RB money, but 10 million puts Joe on par with Eli Manning, 9 with Jay Cutler, 8 just below what A-Rod makes (keep in mind that he would be making more than what Brees and Rodgers are[i] currently [/i]making, but that's because those guys haven't gotten their big paydays yet - Brees will get his this offseason, and Rodgers still has 3 years left on his deal, so I'm not sure when the Packers would extend him). 10 million would put Rice on par with Steven Jackson, and below only Adrian Peterson and Jamal Charles.

[deathbird52]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1325547283' post='932394']
no way he asks for that, tahts brees manning and brady money, hes not a shelfish idiot... i dont think lol
[/quote]

Brady, Manning, and Brees make about 20 million. Don't forget Kevin Kolb did nothing make 15 million. Joe has won 4 playoff games and should be paid more than clown but thats too much for my liking.

[arnie_uk]

see the post above on who gets what, thats where joe should be, in and round eli, romo, cutler etc

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='deathbird52' timestamp='1325548639' post='932434']

Brady, Manning, and Brees make about 20 million. Don't forget Kevin Kolb did nothing make 15 million. Joe has won 4 playoff games and should be paid more than clown but thats too much for my liking.
[/quote]

Don't forget too, Michael Vick made 20 million this season.

[deathbird52]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325548806' post='932437']

Don't forget too, Michael Vick made 20 million this season.
[/quote]

QB make so much its annoying.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='deathbird52' timestamp='1325549101' post='932445']

QB make so much its annoying.
[/quote]

Sad, but it is what it is. Quarterback is the "glamour position" and oftentimes is the quarterback that sells tickets. People aren't going to Carolina to see Greg Olson or Lee Ziemba, they go to see Cam Newton. Donald Driver is probably one of the most beloved Packers in the last decade, but people don't buy tickets to see him - they want Aaron Rodgers, like they did Brett Favre before him. Love him or hate him, Tom Brady sells tickets. It's wrong, football is a true team sport and everybody's success depends on someone else, but casual fans love quarterbacks. I think part of it has to do with the sheer number of "stats" they can put up: Passing yards, rushing yards, passing TDs, rushing TDs, INTs, QB rating, YPA, etc. But whatever the case is, people tend to know the quarterback more than anyone else on the team (unless the team is Baltimore, where Ray Lewis is king).

[jaege]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325528691' post='931959']

I hope Joe wins the Super Bowl and then appears on the cover of Sports Illustrated with the ring on his erect middle finger.
[/quote]

I am in full agreement. Love to see Joe Cool's middle finger erect and covered in gold.

[jaege]

[quote name='deathbird52' timestamp='1325549101' post='932445']

QB make so much its annoying.
[/quote]

One stupid GM does not set the standard. Vick proved he is not worth 20 mill.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

All Joe deserves is a fair day's pay for an honest day's work. Based on his body of work over the last 4 years, he's the only starting QB who has led his team to the playoffs 4 years in a row. Seeing that there are only 12 starting QBs in the playoffs in any given year, he is certainly in the top 12. As I have said previously, he's definitely in the Top 10 and he deserves Top 10 money now. As Leo "The Lip" Durocher once said, "Statistics are for losers." To the contrary, what I have posted here are not statistics. They are facts. By the way, I cannot believe that a few of you hard core Flacco detractors don't even have the intestinal fortitude to admit Joe Flacco has proven you wrong! He literally wen't into the Tigers' Cage and came out on top. If you still don't see that, you should probably schedule an appointment with your optometrist. Yes, its a team sport but Joe's our leader and I've never seen a prettier pass than the one he threw to Lee Evans who ultimately dropped it.

Ernie Accorsi, then Colts GM, once questioned John Unitas about a TD pass he threw to Raymond Berry against the LA Rams. After throwing the pass, Unitas started to walk off the field without looking to see if Berry had caught it or not. When asked about it, John responded, "I threw him a perfect pass; it was up to him to catch it." The difference is Berry caught the pass and scored a TD. If Evans had caught the pass, he would have scored a TD. Instead, it was just anothernegative statistic for you Joe Flacco detractors to hang your hat on. Intersetingly, I didn't see much more of Evans after that drop. Let me be perfectly clear. I'm not trying to compare Joe with Johnny U. Obviously, for anyone who had the pleasure to watch Unitas surgically dissect his opposition, he was w/o peers, statistics aside. I am saying Joe Flacco is one of the active Top 10 QBs in the NFL. If you still disagree, name ten active starting QBs who you would objectively rank above him. I think you'll find it is not easy to do if you put some serious thought into it and not just your negative emotion about Joe.

[BmoreRavens732]

How come the haters havent answered frozen joe yet? I would love to see where you rank joe!!!

[Ravenslifer]

Is this thread still going?

[BmoreRavens732]

Only cuz I got bored and had to say something lol my bad but I just gotta know

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='BmoreRavens732' timestamp='1326283692' post='943300']
Only cuz I got bored and had to say something lol my bad but I just gotta know
[/quote]

Don't think they'd want to answer, although there is one guy on here that would rank Tebow over Joe.

I'll take a shot. I'm only going to put guys on this list that have been in the league 3+ years. There have been too many times when a rookie comes in and lights things up only to fall flat on his face his sophomore season and never live up to the hype.

1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Peyton
4. Brees
5. Roethlisberger
6. Eli
7. Rivers
8. Romo
9. Shaub
10. Joe
11. Matt Ryan

That would be my list as of now. If we make it to the Superbowl, though, I'd probably move Joe ahead one or two spots - and if we win, I might consider giving him the 7a tie with Rivers. The fact is he will never pass Rodgers, Brady, Brees, or Peyton as long as they're playing. I could see him in time moving ahead of everyone else on that list, but right now everyone there has a much more extensive body of work - I mean, the top 6 guys have won every Superbowl since 2003.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1326285048' post='943307']

Don't think they'd want to answer, although there is one guy on here that would rank Tebow over Joe.

I'll take a shot. I'm only going to put guys on this list that have been in the league 3+ years. There have been too many times when a rookie comes in and lights things up only to fall flat on his face his sophomore season and never live up to the hype.

1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Peyton
4. Brees
5. Roethlisberger
6. Eli
7. Rivers
8. Romo
9. Shaub
10. Joe
11. Matt Ryan

That would be my list as of now. If we make it to the Superbowl, though, I'd probably move Joe ahead one or two spots - and if we win, I might consider giving him the 7a tie with Rivers. The fact is he will never pass Rodgers, Brady, Brees, or Peyton as long as they're playing. I could see him in time moving ahead of everyone else on that list in time, but right now everyone there has a much more extensive body of work - I mean, the top 6 guys have won every Superbowl since 2003.
[/quote]

I can respect this list right now. I would take issue with one statement though.

So you are saying if we win the SB this year, and we win next year (just hypothetical here) that Joe STILL would not come close to Rodgers, Brady, Brees??? Or if Joe and Torrey gel into next season and become a dangerous tandem, his numbers take a jump and stay there, he still would not come close? Yeah, I take issue with "never" statements like that.

I'm not so sold on Eli but I get the SB thing. Romo/Schaub...well...yeah I personally would not take them over Joe.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1326285784' post='943308']

I can respect this list right now. I would take issue with one statement though.

So you are saying if we win the SB this year, and we win next year (just hypothetical here) that Joe STILL would not come close to Rodgers, Brady, Brees??? Or if Joe and Torrey gel into next season and become a dangerous tandem, his numbers take a jump and stay there, he still would not come close? Yeah, I take issue with "never" statements like that.

I'm not so sold on Eli but I get the SB thing. Romo/Schaub...well...yeah I personally would not take them over Joe.
[/quote]

If we won this year and next year, and Joe proved to be a big part of why we won at least one of those Superbowls (like Roethlisberger, his defense won him his first, then he went out and won the second), I'd make him 5a along with Roethlisberger. In this era, all of the top guys have [i]won[/i] Superbowls (unlike say the 80s, where guys like Marino, Fouts, Elway - who won in the 90s, etc. didn't have the rings). To vault himself up into the discussion with them, I feel that Flacco needs a Lombardi Trophy.

[BmoreRavens732]

I understand eli and kinda get rivers but shaub and romo? Romo is the biggest choke artist in the NFL and schaub never accomplished anything and has.a beast of a WR to throw to not to mention a very good TE and great running game

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='BmoreRavens732' timestamp='1326287896' post='943322']
I understand eli and kinda get rivers but shaub and romo? Romo is the biggest choke artist in the NFL and schaub never accomplished anything and has.a beast of a WR to throw to not to mention a very good TE and great running game
[/quote]

But right now, I'd say they are better quarterbacks, or at least run their systems better, than Joe. That's not a knock on Joe either, but both Shaub and Romo have a much more extensive body of work than he does right now. Remember here, every single guy I put on my list ahead of Joe was drafted no earlier than 2005 (Rodgers), and all but Rodgers were their teams' starting quarterbacks at least one year before Joe got here (Shaub was 2007, everyone else several years earlier). Like I said, a Superbowl victory, or maybe even just a great run this year (i.e. getting to the Superbowl or having a great game in the AFCCG), would have me move Joe up, but right now, I just feel that everyone on my list has a much more impressive resume, mostly because they've had years on Joe to make their resumes. In 3-4 years, I believe Joe will be at least a top 5 quarterback, if he is given the right tools and the right coaching. But right now, I think 10 is about right, and I think it's a great accomplishment for a guy only in his fourth year in the league.

[BmoreRavens732]

I gotcha now

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1326288325' post='943326']

But right now, I'd say they are better quarterbacks, or at least run their systems better, than Joe. That's not a knock on Joe either, but both Shaub and Romo have a much more extensive body of work than he does right now. Remember here, every single guy I put on my list ahead of Joe was drafted no earlier than 2005 (Rodgers), and all but Rodgers were their teams' starting quarterbacks at least one year before Joe got here (Shaub was 2007, everyone else several years earlier). Like I said, a Superbowl victory, or maybe even just a great run this year (i.e. getting to the Superbowl or having a great game in the AFCCG), would have me move Joe up, but right now, I just feel that everyone on my list has a much more impressive resume, mostly because they've had years on Joe to make their resumes. In 3-4 years, I believe Joe will be at least a top 5 quarterback, if he is given the right tools and the right coaching. But right now, I think 10 is about right, and I think it's a great accomplishment for a guy only in his fourth year in the league.
[/quote]


I have no problem with Romo and Eli being ahead of Joe, perfectly reasonable, but Schaub? When was the last time he played well against a top notch defense? He puts up big numbers against door mats and mediocre D's, but he is not a guy I want starting for me in the playoffs, because he isn't good enough to beat Brees or Rodgers in a shootout, and cant beat good defenses.

Of course, Romo isn't exactly a reliable post season performer himself, but at least he has shown that he can beat any defense, not just the pushovers.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1326291545' post='943354']


I have no problem with Romo and Eli being ahead of Joe, perfectly reasonable, but Schaub? When was the last time he played well against a top notch defense? He puts up big numbers against door mats and mediocre D's, but he is not a guy I want starting for me in the playoffs, because he isn't good enough to beat Brees or Rodgers in a shootout, and cant beat good defenses.

Of course, Romo isn't exactly a reliable post season performer himself, but at least he has shown that he can beat any defense, not just the pushovers.
[/quote]

I can see your point, and looking back over Shaub's career you're right. Like I said, if Joe leads us to the AFCCG and plays well, I'd vault him to 8 behind Rivers. I still think Shaub has been more impressive as a quarterback both by the numbers and by his consistency, and he up until this season carried his team much more than Joe had to carry the Ravens. Joe's inconsistent season this year is part of the reason I don't have him higher. Before this season I would have said he was better than both Romo and Eli, but both of those guys really played well this year, and Joe at times was terrible. Again, I don't see how it's a slight on Joe - most of these guys have 4+ years in the league on him, better receiving corps that they've been working with longer, and better wide receivers. In 4 years I expect Joe to be in the top 5. But right now I like him at 10, mostly because of this bizarre season. If he'd played this year the way he played last year and we also swept the division, I'd have him over Eli at number 6. But this year has shown me two things - 1) Joe has the talent to be as good as anyone in this league, and 2) he still has a ways to go before he can fully harness the talent and be an elite (in my book elite is top 5) quarterback.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1326293337' post='943376']

I can see your point, and looking back over Shaub's career you're right. Like I said, if Joe leads us to the AFCCG and plays well, I'd vault him to 8 behind Rivers. I still think Shaub has been more impressive as a quarterback both by the numbers and by his consistency, and he up until this season carried his team much more than Joe had to carry the Ravens. Joe's inconsistent season this year is part of the reason I don't have him higher. Before this season I would have said he was better than both Romo and Eli, but both of those guys really played well this year, and Joe at times was terrible. Again, I don't see how it's a slight on Joe - most of these guys have 4+ years in the league on him, better receiving corps that they've been working with longer, and better wide receivers. In 4 years I expect Joe to be in the top 5. But right now I like him at 10, mostly because of this bizarre season. If he'd played this year the way he played last year and we also swept the division, I'd have him over Eli at number 6. But this year has shown me two things - 1) Joe has the talent to be as good as anyone in this league, and 2) he still has a ways to go before he can fully harness the talent and be an elite (in my book elite is top 5) quarterback.
[/quote]


I dont think anyone takes it as a slight to Joe.

BTW, give me Stafford over Ryan any day of the week.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1326293592' post='943378']


I dont think anyone takes it as a slight to Joe.

BTW, give me Stafford over Ryan any day of the week.
[/quote]

Give me Megatron over Roddy White (and just about any other receiver in the league) any day. The other thing I would like to point out about all of these guys is they (except maybe Peyton b/c IDK how good his receivers look without him) have dominant receivers. Brady has Welker, Hernandez and Gronkowski Rodgers and Brees have like 2 number 1s and 2 number 2s each, Eli had Plaxico and now has Nicks and Cruz, Ben had Holmes and now he has Wallace, Rivers has Gates and Jackson, Romo has Witten and Bryant, Shaub has AJ, Ryan has White and now Jones, Stafford has Megatron. Joe - he has Boldin who has been a number 2 almost his entire career, an injured Lee Evans, and a rookie named Torrey Smith who people love to give tons of credit to, and deservedly so, but a lot of Torrey's success this year is also due to the fact that he has Flacco throwing to him. I mean, if he had, say, Mark Sanchez throwing to him (who couldn't do it with Santonio Holmes), would he be the same guy?

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1326294168' post='943382']

Give me Megatron over Roddy White (and just about any other receiver in the league) any day. The other thing I would like to point out about all of these guys is they (except maybe Peyton b/c IDK how good his receivers look without him) have dominant receivers. Brady has Welker, Hernandez and Gronkowski Rodgers and Brees have like 2 number 1s and 2 number 2s each, Eli had Plaxico and now has Nicks and Cruz, Ben had Holmes and now he has Wallace, Rivers has Gates and Jackson, Romo has Witten and Bryant, Shaub has AJ, Ryan has White and now Jones, Stafford has Megatron. Joe - he has Boldin who has been a number 2 almost his entire career, an injured Lee Evans, and a rookie named Torrey Smith who people love to give tons of credit to, and deservedly so, but a lot of Torrey's success this year is also due to the fact that he has Flacco throwing to him. I mean, if he had, say, Mark Sanchez throwing to him (who couldn't do it with Santonio Holmes), would he be the same guy?
[/quote]


I've always felt that Flacco is in the same group as Brees, Rodgers and Manning in his ability to throw deep balls. Yes those other guys have elite talent at WR and Joe doesn't, but that shouldn't take away from the fact that they are simply amazing QBs.
And it is a big time compliment to put Joe in that category...obviously he isn't as good as them in other aspects, but just agreeing with your point that Flacco has made Torrey's job MUCH easier.

I still think that one of the greatest throws that I have ever seen by any QB was in either 2008 or 2009 against the Bengals when Clayton was having his monster game.
Clayton ran a fly down the sideline, and was covered nearly perfectly by Leon Hall. But Flacco still threw an absolutely perfectly placed ball into Clayton's hands....instead of me trying to describe it, here's a link (the very first play of the video):

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAtqf5OGO4o"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAtqf5OGO4o[/url]