Who Will Our New Qb Be ?

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Lets get rid of Flacco whos been a winning and proven Qb, and lets draft a Qb who could end up being a bust! Then we will complain about the Qb being a bust, and will clamor for a new Qb and the cycle will go on......

[The Raven]

[quote name='PurpleCorsair' timestamp='1325363287' post='927649']

2011 Wins

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Alex Smith
2. Drew Brees
2. Tom Brady
3. Joe Flacco
3. Big Ben
4. Matthew Stafford
4. Matt Ryan

Hmm, aside from the resurgence of Alex Smith, Joe Flacco is behind only future hall of famers, therefore he is elite. See what I did there?
[/quote]

Lol thats cute.

Flacco has the most wins in the past 4 years. Simple as that. Wins matter more than any other stat

[JohnJohnson]

Here's another cherry picked statistic:

Flacco went to Pittsburgh this year, and beat the Steelers with a last second TD. But that's not all he did. He went 14-21 on third down, converting more third downs against the Steelers than they had given up in a game at Heinz field since the merger. He also set a Ravens franchise record for third down conversions.

[The Raven]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1325363876' post='927657']
Here's another cherry picked statistic:

Flacco went to Pittsburgh this year, and beat the Steelers with a last second TD. But that's not all he did. He went 14-21 on third down, converting more third downs against the Steelers than they had given up in a game at Heinz field since the merger. He also set a Ravens franchise record for third down conversions.
[/quote]

Wouldja look at that?! More FACTS! It's funny how FACTS can be used to support an argument

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1325362406' post='927638']

Isnt that what the team did? Not flacco? So...can you make an argument that Mark Sanchez is good since he has gone to AFC championship twice? Kyle Boller had a 'winning season' too if i remember. But it had[b] NOTHING [/b]to do with him.
[/quote]

But that's why we're not judging off of one season. Yes, Boller had a winning season. Sanchez made the playoffs twice (with the help of the Colts sitting their starters, and with much worse stats than Flacco), and played pretty well in the playoffs to get them to the AFC Championship games. And eventually, the Jets lost to the same teams that we lost to.

Things unraveled with Boller. Now, things are unraveling with Sanchez. I'm still waiting for Flacco to stop winning and making the playoffs. The only thing left is to win a Super Bowl, and I'm not gonna cry about the fact that he didn't storm into the league and win it in his first three seasons.

[OriolesMagicPlease]

This has been a most interesting read.

[color=#4B0082][b]GO JOE[/b][/color]!!!!![img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/229031_cheer.gif[/img]

[Alexir]

Hate how Wins matter for Only QBs, Goalies and Pitchers.

No one says the ravens have had over 40 wins with Jarrett Johnson at Outside linebacker, he is elite. Just behind Suggs, Ware and Harrison..but if its a QB, eliteness level can be measured.

Even though he is our offense, no one says Ray Rice's win record, when he is the real reason he is winning us games 9 out of 10 times.

Just an observation that annoys me. Yeah I know they are the ones handing the ball and throwing the passes, but as we know Joe rarely does, they don't call the plays.

Before you say it's because they are the leader of the offense, I don't buy into that. A QB's stats should not be reflected on the Wins and Loss columns. NO PLAYER SHOULD. It's a team game. Like look at Pekka Rinne for Predators, he gave up 4 goals last week but his team won 5-4. Thats a horrible outing but hey he got the win.

Rant over lol, just bothers me. Let's break down the individual performance not give credit for a team performance.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325366438' post='927681']
Hate how Wins matter for Only QBs, Goalies and Pitchers.

No one says the ravens have had over 40 wins with Jarrett Johnson at Outside linebacker, he is elite. Just behind Suggs, Ware and Harrison..but if its a QB, eliteness level can be measured.

Even though he is our offense, no one says Ray Rice's win record, when he is the real reason he is winning us games 9 out of 10 times.

Just an observation that annoys me. Yeah I know they are the ones handing the ball and throwing the passes, but as we know Joe rarely does, they don't call the plays.

Before you say it's because they are the leader of the offense, I don't buy into that. A QB's stats should not be reflected on the Wins and Loss columns. NO PLAYER SHOULD. It's a team game. Like look at Pekka Rinne for Predators, he gave up 4 goals last week but his team won 5-4. Thats a horrible outing but hey he got the win.

Rant over lol, just bothers me. Let's break down the individual performance not give credit for a team performance.
[/quote]

Well, I agree for the most part -- QB wins as a stat is way too unreliable. People say Flacco rides the defense, but what about all the come from behind wins Flacco has, or the games that the defense lost for us? I guess it probably balances out in the end, but there are way too many variables to simply point at the total amount of wins (like when the defense, not Flacco or our offense, won the Jets game).

That said, when you compare our win - loss record from the Flacco era to the Boller era, that speaks volumes. It is no coincidence that we are consistently successful now, even though our defense is not what it used to be.


*edit*

I just saw the part about Rice being the real reason we win. What????

[Alexir]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1325366900' post='927682']

Well, I agree for the most part -- QB wins as a stat is way too unreliable. People say Flacco rides the defense, but what about all the come from behind wins Flacco has, or the games that the defense lost for us? I guess it probably balances out in the end, but there are way too many variables to simply point at the total amount of wins (like when the defense, not Flacco or our offense, won the Jets game).

That said, when you compare our win - loss record from the Flacco era to the Boller era, that speaks volumes. It is no coincidence that we are consistently successful now, even though our defense is not what it used to be.
[/quote]
I agree. Flacco is an upgrade over Boller but even though Boller had JO and Flynn, his line wasn't that great and he had no receivers. As much as we give grief to Cam Cameron, I think he is an upgrade of Nuheisal or Billick.

Flacco has played pretty good at times, but I stand by my point that I don't know if I would give him a hefty extension before his contract is up. Would make him play out his contract before giving him a huge deal especially with the hefty deals we gave to Suggs, Yanda and Ngata the ones we will be giving to Grubbs, Rice, Webb, Cary etc.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1325361959' post='927632']

QB rating is what the quarterback attain after all the accumulation of stats shown above. QB ranking is not QB rating.
[/quote]


That really doesn't answer the question I've asked twice already. I'm starting to think you have no answer.

[I AM LEGEND]

Anyone wanna post those all important Playoff FACTS for Joe....since u guys keep clamoring for FACTS...

U know the....Playoffs where if all those FACTS u guys keep posting aren't good...THE TEAM goes home

yea let's see those FACTS

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325367290' post='927686']
I agree. Flacco is an upgrade over Boller but even though Boller had JO and Flynn, his line wasn't that great and he had no receivers. As much as we give grief to Cam Cameron, I think he is an upgrade of Nuheisal or Billick.

Flacco has played pretty good at times, but I stand by my point that I don't know if I would give him a hefty extension before his contract is up. Would make him play out his contract before giving him a huge deal especially with the hefty deals we gave to Suggs, Yanda and Ngata the ones we will be giving to Grubbs, Rice, Webb, Cary etc.
[/quote]

Actually, I would prefer we sign him now, since his stats are down this year. Buy low!!

[Alexir]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1325367592' post='927692']

Actually, I would prefer we sign him now, since his stats are down this year. Buy low!!
[/quote]

And what if those stats never climb and we are stuck with him with guaranteed money on the line. I just want him to earn the contract. Heck, he could do it in the playoffs.

[flynismo]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1325367488' post='927691']
Anyone wanna post those all important Playoff FACTS for Joe....since u guys keep clamoring for FACTS...

U know the....Playoffs where if all those FACTS u guys keep posting aren't good...THE TEAM goes home

yea let's see those FACTS
[/quote]


hahahaha, really grasping for SOMETHING, aren't ya old buddy??

Okay, you can have that. Flacco has not played great in the playoffs. I wont even mention the fact that the stats should be tongue in cheek, since they came as a rookie, sophomore and junior in the NFL.

So, your point is what exactly? Flacco hasn't played well consistently in the playoffs yet?

He helped get us there, and he deserves the chance to redeem the playoff performances from his infant years.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325367775' post='927695']

And what if those stats never climb and we are stuck with him with guaranteed money on the line. I just want him to earn the contract. Heck, he could do it in the playoffs.
[/quote]


Well, what I meant was we could try to use the slightly lower stats as leverage to lower the contract offer....

I feel he is a risk worth taking. When you look at the defenses he has played and the shortened preseason, we shouldn't be surprised that the stats reflect that.

[1/28/01]

House is a smelling of some nice red meat, glass of red in hand and this thread is still pumping....ah, this is the life.

Seriously, let's shelve this bad boy until about 7:30 tomorrow. Go grab a drink (for those 21+) and have a nice hearty meal!

[The Raven]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1325367488' post='927691']
Anyone wanna post those all important Playoff FACTS for Joe....since u guys keep clamoring for FACTS...

U know the....Playoffs where if all those FACTS u guys keep posting aren't good...THE TEAM goes home

yea let's see those FACTS
[/quote]

Yes. Let's see the playoff FACTS.

4 seasons, 4 playoff berts, More playoff wins in the past 4 years than any other QB.

Sure, his performance wasn't great in the playoffs, but you really have to put into perspective that Mason had one single catch in all of the post season last year. Our supposed number 2 receiver had ONE, SINGLE catch, in 2 games. The year before he didn't have too many either. Can't blame it ALL on Joe.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1325358766' post='927591']


lol just LOL

just check the stats. matter of fact. let me do it for you.

[url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating"]http://espn.go.com/n...arterbackRating[/url]

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G (elite to good)
1 Aaron Rodgers, QB GB 502 343 [b]68.3[/b] 4,643 [b]9.25 [/b]93 [b]45 6[/b] 36 122.5 310
2 Drew Brees, QB NO 622 440 [b]70.7[/b] 5,087 [b]8.18 [/b]79 [b]41 13 [/b]24 108.4 339
3 Tom Brady, QB NE 576 378 [b] 65.6[/b] 4,897 [b]8.50 [/b]99 [b]36 11 [/b]28 105.1 326
4 Tony Romo, QB DAL 485 317 [b]65.4[/b] 3,895 [b] 8.03 [/b]77[b] 29 9[/b] 30 102.2 260
5 Matt Schaub, QB HOU 292 178 [b]61.0[/b] 2,479 [b] 8.49 [/b]80 [b]15 6[/b] 16 96.8 248
6 Matthew Stafford, QB DET 604 385 63.7 4,518 7.48 73 36 14 34 96.6 301
7 Big Ben, QB PIT 473 301 63.6 3,856 8.15 95 21 14 38 91.5 275
8 Matt Ryan, QB ATL 557 341 [b]61.2[/b] 4,071 [b]7.31 [/b]80 [b]27 12 [/b]26 90.7 271
9 Eli Manning, QB NYG 556 335 60.3 4,587 8.25 99 26 16 26 90.3 306
10 Alex Smith, QB SF 415 253 61.0 2,931 7.06 56 16 5 41 90.1 195

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G (medicore)
11 Matt Moore, QB MIA 315 188 59.7 2,362 7.50 65 15 7 35 89.7 197
12 Philip Rivers, QB SD 556 347 62.4 4,314 7.76 58 24 19 30 86.6 288
13 Jay Cutler, QB CHI 314 182 58.0 2,319 7.39 56 13 7 23 85.7 232
14 Cam Newton, QB CAR 492 295 60.0 3,893 7.91 91 20 16 33 85.0 260
15 Michael Vick, QB PHI 384 229 59.6 2,968 7.73 73 15 13 21 82.9 247
16 Andy Dalton, QB CIN 472 278 [b]58.9[/b] 3,166 6.71 84 [b]20 13 [/b]23 81.8 211
17 Kevin Kolb, QB ARI 253 146 [b]57.7[/b] 1,955 7.73 73 [b]9 8[/b] 30 81.1 217
18 Ryan Fitz., QB BUF 523 324 62.0 3,525 6.74 60 22 19 20 80.7 235
19 Matt H., QB TEN 483 297 61.5 3,274 6.78 80 16 14 16 80.5 218
20 Joe Flacco, QB BAL 523 297[b]56.8 [/b]3,480 6.65 74 [b]19 12 [/b]30 79.7 232

[b]RK PLAYER [/b]TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G (terrible)
21 Tarvaris J., QB SEA 415 250 60.2 2,869 6.91 55 13 12 38 79.5 205
22 Mark Sanchez, QB NYJ 511 287 [b]56.2[/b] 3,267 6.39 74[b] 24 15 [/b]37 79.0 218
23 Kyle Orton, QB KC 223 135 60.5 1,578 7.08 52 9 9 9 78.7 197
24 Tim Tebow, QB DEN 249 120 48.2 1,669 6.70 56 12 5 31 77.9 128
25 Carson P., QB OAK 285 171 60.0 2,336 8.20 61 11 15 17 77.2 260
26 Matt Cassel, QB KC 269 160 59.5 1,713 6.37 52 10 9 22 76.6 190
27 Josh F., QB TB 506 315 62.3 3,318 6.56 65 14 19 27 74.9 237
28 Colt McCoy, QB CLE 463 265 57.2 2,733 5.90 56 14 11 32 74.6 210
29 Rex Grossman, QB WSH 413 243 58.8 2,895 7.01 51 15 19 24 73.3 241

Just fyi,
Mark Sanchez has been higher ranking then Joe Flacco till week 16. Statisically Mark has been worse than Flacco till week 3. Then after that, Mark has never been lower ranked than Flacco till week 16. Just to reiterate. We are talking about MARK SANCHEZ. Yes...the epitome of terrible.

Rex Grossman was alternating with John Beck, and he has his two starting WRs out (in fact his best receiver was Donte Stallworth, yes DONTE for 4 weeks)
Kevin Kolb the feeble has been out for half a season, but as you can see, even he is better in ypa and in completion.
Andy Dalton has of course a better TD/INt ratio, ypa, and completion and he is a rookie. Many believe he is a better game-manager than joe flacco even if it is his 1st year.

And of course, I wont even go top 5, top 10, or even TOP 15. [b]He has been in rank 21-22 till week 15 SINCE week 7. He got out of the 'sub-par/terrible' ranking in week 16 after he got 2 TDs vs. Browns.[/b]


Name one starting QB that has been on field more since week1-week16 who has any worse rating than Flacco. Im sure you wont be able to find one if they aren't under worst 5 QB.

Lets not even try to compare Matt Ryan and Flacco's stat anymore, for obvious reason that he received another receiver Julio Jones (who has not even made 700 yards and 7TD for a #2receiver so he must be distributing the ball to everyone like any good QB should )

I wonder what flynismo and rest of "[b]these are very intelligent, reasonable people" [/b]have to say about his overwelming performance.
[/quote]

Let me just point out one thing. I don't know what will happen in the future, but this is not the first time a quarterback has struggled in his fourth season. Eli Manning and Drew Brees both did. Manning was halfway out the door, but he turned it around big. Brees was booted out the door, and we see what happened to him. Until this season, Flacco raised his TD numbers and lowered his INT numbers and his qb rating every year. Also keep in mind that there have not only been lots of drops this year, but lots of big drops. Case in point, Arizona. Flacco threw 3 TD passes that were either dropped or the WR didn't make it into the endzone, and his "pick" bounced off of a receiver's hands backwards into the defender's hands. He went from 3 TDs, 0 picks to 0 TDs, 1 pick for reasons not of his own making. It's happened a few times this year. Flacco I feel, has earned the right to one season with a good offensive coordinator that calls proper gameplans AND a quarterback coach. Where is his quarterback coach? If Flacco is regressing, isn't a large majority of the blame on his QB coach?

This is what I have to say. Flacco has had a very inconsistent season, a season that stats don't tell the whole story for. Against the Steelers, Bengals, 49ers, and Rams he's been excellent. Against the Seahawks, Jags, Jets he's been terrible. It isn't just one big mediocre season, it's lots of highs and lots of lows. Which shows he has the talent to succeed, IMO, just hasn't harnessed it. Not many 4th year quarterbacks have. And it's unfair to compare him and Matt Ryan, because Matt Ryan doesn't have to play against the passing defenses Joe has had to this season. He hasn't. Doesn't matter about the team, when comparing QBs, you also have to take into account the level of competition they face. Ryan hasn't faced Jonathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Derrelle Revis, Joe Haden, Troy Polamolu, etc. He hasn't faced this elite level of competition at the positions that directly oppose him. And he hasn't had this kind of turnover on his offensive line, at his receiver and tight end positions. Remember there was no offseason due to the lockout, and while every team has growing pains, teams with lots of turnover at key positions would have more growing pains. I don't know a single non-rookie qb that had a worse situation than Flacco. The two receivers he'd thrown to for 3 years were gone, and the only guy he had any significant time with prior to this was Boldin. Evans, Smith, Doss, all new. Dickson and Pitta had zero starts and like 10 catches between them for their whole careers. Not to mention Cam Cameron is one of the worst OCs in the league. Flacco is one of the best in the league at running play-action, and he seems to do well on role outs and bootlegs. Are those called more than once or twice every 3 games? No. Cam has dialed up a ridiculous number of passing plays, and a lot of those are deep attempts which even the best QBs in the league struggle with.

Flacco deserves one thing, IMO. One more season with a better offensive coordinator, and more importantly, a PROVEN quarterback coach. We should see what someone who knows what they are doing can do with Joe. I just keep looking at Alex Smith. Do you think he could have beaten the Steelers at any point in the last 6 years? All of a sudden, Jim Harbaugh, a proven quarterback developer, gets a hold of Alex for a few months, and the guy is the 10th rated qb in the league? That to me, is brilliant coaching, brilliant coaching of the quarterback. I don't believe we have that at all. I feel we have a guy who is ruining the quarterback we have and the offense we have. So I think we should find someone proven that Flacco and the rest of the team believes in (because it's fairly obvious that they don't believe in Cam Cameron) to help develop our offense and our quarterback. If he can't do it next season, then we should explore other options. But I feel it's very unfair to give up on Flacco after his season last year and after he beat the Steelers in the manner in which he did. It shows me the guy has all the talent to succeed. The Ravens should give him the best opportunity to succeed before deciding to move on.

[PurpleCorsair]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1325367488' post='927691']
Anyone wanna post those all important Playoff FACTS for Joe....since u guys keep clamoring for FACTS...

U know the....Playoffs where if all those FACTS u guys keep posting aren't good...THE TEAM goes home

yea let's see those FACTS
[/quote]

Facts
2010 Post Season Stats.
2 2 41 64 64.1 390 6.1 3 1 9 51 90.0 9 25 2.8 0 3 2

[flynismo]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1325368456' post='927704']
House is a smelling of some nice red meat, glass of red in hand and this thread is still pumping....ah, this is the life.

Seriously, let's shelve this bad boy until about 7:30 tomorrow. Go grab a drink (for those 21+) and have a nice hearty meal!
[/quote]


Oh no sir, my fun isnt beginning until around 8pm tonight, so I gotta keep my mind busy (or apparently boggled) til then...

Hope that everyone has a fun and safe holiday!!! (even the Flacco haters )

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325368714' post='927710']

Let me just point out one thing. I don't know what will happen in the future, but this is not the first time a quarterback has struggled in his fourth season. Eli Manning and Drew Brees both did. Manning was halfway out the door, but he turned it around big. Brees was booted out the door, and we see what happened to him. Until this season, Flacco raised his TD numbers and lowered his INT numbers and his qb rating every year. Also keep in mind that there have not only been lots of drops this year, but lots of big drops. Case in point, Arizona. Flacco threw 3 TD passes that were either dropped or the WR didn't make it into the endzone, and his "pick" bounced off of a receiver's hands backwards into the defender's hands. He went from 3 TDs, 0 picks to 0 TDs, 1 pick for reasons not of his own making. It's happened a few times this year. Flacco I feel, has earned the right to one season with a good offensive coordinator that calls proper gameplans AND a quarterback coach. Where is his quarterback coach? If Flacco is regressing, isn't a large majority of the blame on his QB coach?

This is what I have to say. Flacco has had a very inconsistent season, that stats don't tell the whole story for. Against the Steelers, Bengals, 49ers, and Rams he's been excellent. Against the Seahawks, Jags, Jets he's been terrible. It isn't just one big mediocre season, it's lots of highs and lots of lows. Which shows he has the talent to succeed, IMO, just hasn't harnessed it. Not many 4th year quarterbacks have. And it's unfair to compare him and Matt Ryan, because Matt Ryan doesn't have to play against the passing defenses Joe has had to this season. He hasn't. Doesn't matter about the team, when comparing QBs, you also have to take into account the level of competition they face. Ryan hasn't faced Jonathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Derrelle Revis, Joe Haden, Troy Polamolu, etc. He hasn't faced this elite level of competition at the positions that directly oppose him. And he hasn't had this kind of turnover on his offensive line, at his receiver and tight end positions. Remember there was no offseason due to the lockout, and while every team has growing pains, teams with lots of turnover at key positions would have more growing pains. I don't know a single non-rookie qb that had a worse situation than Flacco. The two receivers he'd thrown to for 3 years were gone, and the only guy he had any significant time with prior to this was Boldin. Evans, Smith, Doss, all new, Dickson and Pitta had zero starts and like 10 catches between them for their whole careers. Not to mention Cam Cameron is one of the worst OCs in the league. Flacco is one of the best in the league at running play-action, and he seems to do well on role outs and bootlegs. Are those called more than once or twice every 3 games? No. Cam has dialed up a ridiculous number of passing plays, and a lot of those are deep attempts which even the best QBs struggle with.

Flacco deserves one thing, IMO. One more season with a better offensive coordinator, and more importantly, a PROVEN quarterback coach. We should see what someone who knows what they are doing can do with Joe. I just keep looking at Alex Smith. Do you think he could have beaten the Steelers at any point in the last 6 years? All of a sudden, Jim Harbaugh, a proven quarterback developer, gets a hold of Alex for a few months, and the guy is the 10th rated qb in the league? That to me, is brilliant coaching, brilliant coaching of the quarterback. I don't believe we have that at all, I feel we have a guy who is ruining the quarterback we have and the offense we have. So I think we should find someone proven that Flacco and the rest of the team believes in (because it's fairly obvious that they don't believe in Cam Cameron) to help develop our offense and our quarterback. If he can't do it next season, then we should explore other options. But I feel it's very unfair to give up on Flacco after his season last year and after he beat the Steelers in the manner in which he did. It shows me the guy has all the talent to succeed. The Ravens should give him the best opportunity to succeed before deciding to move on.
[/quote]



I love this guy

[flynismo]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325368494' post='927706']

Yes. Let's see the playoff FACTS.

4 seasons, 4 playoff berts, More playoff wins in the past 4 years than any other QB.

Sure, his performance wasn't great in the playoffs, but you really have to put into perspective that Mason had one single catch in all of the post season last year. Our supposed number 2 receiver had ONE, SINGLE catch, in 2 games. The year before he didn't have too many either. Can't blame it ALL on Joe.
[/quote]


That, and the simple fact that it is not reasonable to expect a rookie / sophomore to light it up in the playoffs.
Last year, his third, yes we can definitely expect better production from him -- the critics are justified in wanting to see more then. But then when we look at his supporting cast (remember Dickson's drop @ PIT, for example), we can see that, as you said, his teammates let him down just as much as anything else.

[reediddy]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325368714' post='927710']

Let me just point out one thing. I don't know what will happen in the future, but this is not the first time a quarterback has struggled in his fourth season. Eli Manning and Drew Brees both did. Manning was halfway out the door, but he turned it around big. Brees was booted out the door, and we see what happened to him. Until this season, Flacco raised his TD numbers and lowered his INT numbers and his qb rating every year. Also keep in mind that there have not only been lots of drops this year, but lots of big drops. Case in point, Arizona. Flacco threw 3 TD passes that were either dropped or the WR didn't make it into the endzone, and his "pick" bounced off of a receiver's hands backwards into the defender's hands. He went from 3 TDs, 0 picks to 0 TDs, 1 pick for reasons not of his own making. It's happened a few times this year. Flacco I feel, has earned the right to one season with a good offensive coordinator that calls proper gameplans AND a quarterback coach. Where is his quarterback coach? If Flacco is regressing, isn't a large majority of the blame on his QB coach?

This is what I have to say. Flacco has had a very inconsistent season, that stats don't tell the whole story for. Against the Steelers, Bengals, 49ers, and Rams he's been excellent. Against the Seahawks, Jags, Jets he's been terrible. It isn't just one big mediocre season, it's lots of highs and lots of lows. Which shows he has the talent to succeed, IMO, just hasn't harnessed it. Not many 4th year quarterbacks have. And it's unfair to compare him and Matt Ryan, because Matt Ryan doesn't have to play against the passing defenses Joe has had to this season. He hasn't. Doesn't matter about the team, when comparing QBs, you also have to take into account the level of competition they face. Ryan hasn't faced Jonathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Derrelle Revis, Joe Haden, Troy Polamolu, etc. He hasn't faced this elite level of competition at the positions that directly oppose him. And he hasn't had this kind of turnover on his offensive line, at his receiver and tight end positions. Remember there was no offseason due to the lockout, and while every team has growing pains, teams with lots of turnover at key positions would have more growing pains. I don't know a single non-rookie qb that had a worse situation than Flacco. The two receivers he'd thrown to for 3 years were gone, and the only guy he had any significant time with prior to this was Boldin. Evans, Smith, Doss, all new, Dickson and Pitta had zero starts and like 10 catches between them for their whole careers. Not to mention Cam Cameron is one of the worst OCs in the league. Flacco is one of the best in the league at running play-action, and he seems to do well on role outs and bootlegs. Are those called more than once or twice every 3 games? No. Cam has dialed up a ridiculous number of passing plays, and a lot of those are deep attempts which even the best QBs struggle with.

Flacco deserves one thing, IMO. One more season with a better offensive coordinator, and more importantly, a PROVEN quarterback coach. We should see what someone who knows what they are doing can do with Joe. I just keep looking at Alex Smith. Do you think he could have beaten the Steelers at any point in the last 6 years? All of a sudden, Jim Harbaugh, a proven quarterback developer, gets a hold of Alex for a few months, and the guy is the 10th rated qb in the league? That to me, is brilliant coaching, brilliant coaching of the quarterback. I don't believe we have that at all, I feel we have a guy who is ruining the quarterback we have and the offense we have. So I think we should find someone proven that Flacco and the rest of the team believes in (because it's fairly obvious that they don't believe in Cam Cameron) to help develop our offense and our quarterback. If he can't do it next season, then we should explore other options. But I feel it's very unfair to give up on Flacco after his season last year and after he beat the Steelers in the manner in which he did. It shows me the guy has all the talent to succeed. The Ravens should give him the best opportunity to succeed before deciding to move on.
[/quote]

[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/plus-un2.gif[/img]

[The Raven]

I just thought of another interesting debacle.

What does define an elite quarterback?

You could say Romo puts up elite QB stats, which you can't really argue. He does. 3,892, 29 TDs and 9 picks with a 65% completion for a 102.2 rating. Well hey, he throws TDs, not many picks, and he completes most of his throws, he should be elite, right? But no, the haters say "He doesn't win games. He can't win in the playoffs. He just doesn't win games"

But then you have Flacco who doesn't put up the greatest stats, but he wins. More wins in 4 years than any other QB. But because he doesn't put up the "elite" numbers, he is not elite. I'm not saying he is, or he isn't. What I'm saying is, do stats define the QB? Or do wins? Based on you haters' logic Romo and Vick are elite.

Not to mention, how many QBs actually win AND put up stats? Are you being realistic?

Not at all.

[flynismo]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1325371299' post='927736']I just thought of another interesting debacle.

What does define an elite quarterback?

You could say Romo puts up elite QB stats, which you can't really argue. He does. 3,892, 29 TDs and 9 picks with a 65% completion for a 102.2 rating. Well hey, he throws TDs, not many picks, and he completes most of his throws, he should be elite, right? But no, the haters say "He doesn't win games. He can't win in the playoffs. He just doesn't win games"

But then you have Flacco who doesn't put up the greatest stats, but he wins. More wins in 4 years than any other QB. But because he doesn't put up the "elite" numbers, he is not elite. I'm not saying he is, or he isn't. What I'm saying is, do stats define the QB? Or do wins? Based on you haters' logic Romo and Vick are elite.

Not to mention, how many QBs actually win AND put up stats? Are you being realistic?

Not at all.[/quote]


well, we arent even debating whether Flacco is elite or not -- he isnt (yet). We are just debating whether he is even a GOOD qb.

A ridiculous debate, to anyone who has any sense...but a debate nonetheless

[K-Dog]

ACTUALLY, the point of this thread was not weather or not Flacco was good or not but what better alternative existed.

Still waiting on that.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1325390477' post='927855']
ACTUALLY,  the point of this thread was not weather or not Flacco was good or not but what better alternative existed.
Still waiting on that.
[/quote]
Been a while, but I used to be able to sling the rock fairly well

[arnie_uk]

its 4 30 am, im quite drunk but im posting anyways, there is 4 elite qbs in this league... brees rodgers manning and brady

You coukd argue big ben, decent stats, but wins when it matters, or rivers, "elite stats" but chokes when it matters, there the closet

then you have flacco vick romo schaub ryan eli. thats the top 11 if my maths is right at this minute... no one is arguing he is elite

now to the orignal post, who would i swap flacoo for... rodgers only, the other elite qbs are old and would only have a few more years left, BB is inj alot and will have a few left, rivers chokes in the play offs, romo chokes, vick is not durable enough, schuab is too old along with eli for a straight trade.. ryan, come play on the east coast in the winter before i judge you, then you have dalton and newton.... possibly? give me a year or two...

Stafford, im not sure where he is yet, take away calvin and give me another fit season before i judge u also.

SO WHO WOULD I TAKE OVER FLACCO, YES A FEW RIGHT NOW, BUT THINKING LONG TERM, AND TRADE VALUE ETC JUST A RODGERS.... NO ONE ELSE COULD COME IN HERE DO WHAT HE IS GOING TO DO OVER THESE NEXT YEARS... SURE LETS GET RID OF HIM, THROW HIM TO THE DOGS, BUT WHO WILL REPLACE HIM, tYROD??? MAYBE WE PAY p MANN 15MILL YEAR ? HA

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1325392458' post='927868']
its 4 30 am, im quite drunk but im posting anyways, there is 4 elite qbs in this league... brees rodgers manning and brady

You coukd argue big ben, decent stats, but wins when it matters, or rivers, "elite stats" but chokes when it matters, there the closet

then you have flacco vick romo schaub ryan eli. thats the top 11 if my maths is right at this minute... no one is arguing he is elite

now to the orignal post, who would i swap flacoo for... rodgers only, the other elite qbs are old and would only have a few more years left, BB is inj alot and will have a few left, rivers chokes in the play offs, romo chokes, vick is not durable enough, schuab is too old along with eli for a straight trade.. ryan, come play on the east coast in the winter before i judge you, then you have dalton and newton.... possibly? give me a year or two...

Stafford, im not sure where he is yet, take away calvin and give me another fit season before i judge u also.

SO WHO WOULD I TAKE OVER FLACCO, YES A FEW RIGHT NOW, BUT THINKING LONG TERM, AND TRADE VALUE ETC JUST A RODGERS.... NO ONE ELSE COULD COME IN HERE DO WHAT HE IS GOING TO DO OVER THESE NEXT YEARS... SURE LETS GET RID OF HIM, THROW HIM TO THE DOGS, BUT WHO WILL REPLACE HIM, tYROD??? MAYBE WE PAY p MANN 15MILL YEAR ? HA
[/quote]

Dude that was a good post, especially if you're as drunk as you say. I might not have been able to find my computer, much less type.

[flynismo]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1325390477' post='927855']
ACTUALLY, the point of this thread was not weather or not Flacco was good or not but what better alternative existed.

Still waiting on that.
[/quote]


Does it have to be a REALISTIC alternative? Or can I throw out Rodgers, Brees and Brady?