Hopefully Pagano Uses More Cover 2.........

[wayne]

Ok, our CBs are good right now but not good enough to constantly leave them on islands with the Cover 1 this early in their young careers. We can get away with using the Cover 1 as our base scheme against a lot of teams in the league but against some of the top passing attacks in the league like the Saints, Chargers, Packers.... we need to use the Cover 2 as the base D occasionally throwing the Cover 1's and 0's in there. I know I have said this many times before in other threads but I feel this is major, major enough for its own thread,lol. I understand that the Cover 1 presents the D-Coordinator with a lot of flexibility as far as blitzing, extra defender in the box for better run support, better disguising of the blitz, etc..... but again, Cover 2 is a D where it forces pass happy teams like the Chargers to take the underneath stuff which forces them to execute more plays which increases the chances for turnovers and it gives the D more time to adjust to whatever the offense is doing.

Look what Detroit is doing to the Chargers now and that's b/c they play mostly Cover 2 forcing Rivers to take the dink and dunks or forcing the seam pass between the two safeties playing the deep halves of the field. I love what Pagano has done to the D so don't take this post the wrong way fellow Raven'ians but the Greg Mattison style D is also needed sometimes also and can be the best to use against teams like what I have mentioned. Hell, rushing 4 and dropping 7 seems to work on us and we have better pass rushers to make this scheme a lot more effective than Mattison did.

[hawkprey]

Pagano's had the luxury of good pass rushers but doesn't have the luxury of solid CBs (outside of Webb). They're still young and exposable. At least the core of the future defense is intact - Webb, Smith, Williams, McPhee, Kruger, Cody, Ngata, McClain, and Jones. I might actually say this is a rebuilding year for the defense just because we're at the point where our vets (Ed and Ray) are banged up and in their twilight and our young guys are still raw.

[True]

IF the Pass Rush is on and working than I'm cool with using Cover 1, but if it's not then play more zone coverage with safety help.

[wayne]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1324767998' post='921599']
IF the Pass Rush is on and working than I'm cool with using Cover 1, but if it's not then play more zone coverage with safety help.
[/quote]

@ Hawkprey, I agree completely.

@ True, if the pass rush is on, Cover 2 would surely be the way to go, I think you have your logic a little backwards. If the pass rush is on, Cover 2 is the greatest D in the world but when its not on, that's when teams have to start using Cover 1's and 0's for the disguised blitzes. A good balance of the Cover 2 and 1 would be great though and you lean toward playing one more depending on who you are playing. Playing the Browns, lean more toward Cover 1, playing the Chargers, lean toward more Cover 2.

[RavensAllTheWay]

I was starting to think this during the fourth quarter. But CB wise, we just need to let them be physical. I'm actually really tired of giving up these extremely soft cushions and watching guys throw quick outs on first down to stay ahead of the down and distance.

I don't know Wayne, but maybe a 2 man under would be best for us since we have two hard hitting, aggressive safeties who can lurk around the middle of the field. The middle of the field would be exposed in a formation like this which might be why teams don't run it often, and my last memory of it was last season at KC in the playoffs when the Chiefs ran it and Flacco and co. shredded it all game long with crossing routes.

But to me, this should suit our DBs very well because they could jam their WRs at the line and disrupt the timing of crossing routes. It should also allow for Reed to be lurking, which has gotten us beat before, but he could choose to stay back and help with the deep ball. Whatever helps Jimmy and Cary out because those guys are simply aggressive, physical players.

Maybe I'm just talking crazy....I'm no defensive coach....but this is at least where my thought process took me.

[Alexir]

Cover 2 equals more picks IMO. Take away the field, lets Ed Focus on the ball more instead of worrying about receivers blowing past him.

[wayne]

I agree with you both. We all know Ed Reed is th best at playing centerfield but with the inexperince of our CBs, more Cover 2 would do us a lot of justice , especially considering the points that y'all pointed out. Our CBs are made for bump n run coverage disrupting WRs timing and having Ed and Pollard behind them would give them confidence in playing the underneath stuff pretty good. As far as the weak point of the Cover 2 which is the deep middle, Ed could occasionally come out of his Cover 2 look and lurk that part of the field and it would be a chess match for QBs and I feel Ed would win this chess match. We used this look vs the blowout to the Pats in the playoffs at their house as well as a lot of other times and sometimes, you have to depend on the guy in the trenches wininning their one on ones more so than other games and we definitely have the guys for the task, much better than with Mattison and we were still Top 5 D last season.

[The Black Bird]

I agree.... I think Pagano had alil to much faith in our secondary in that chargers game and we got exposed. I think we should run the cover 2 next week against Cincy to be on the safe side. Andy threw for almost 400 yards on us the last time.

[OUravensfan]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1324767032' post='921566']
Ok, our CBs are good right now but not good enough to constantly leave them on islands with the Cover 1 this early in their young careers. We can get away with using the Cover 1 as our base scheme against a lot of teams in the league but against some of the top passing attacks in the league like the Saints, Chargers, Packers.... we need to use the Cover 2 as the base D occasionally throwing the Cover 1's and 0's in there. I know I have said this many times before in other threads but I feel this is major, major enough for its own thread,lol. I understand that the Cover 1 presents the D-Coordinator with a lot of flexibility as far as blitzing, extra defender in the box for better run support, better disguising of the blitz, etc..... but again, Cover 2 is a D where it forces pass happy teams like the Chargers to take the underneath stuff which forces them to execute more plays which increases the chances for turnovers and it gives the D more time to adjust to whatever the offense is doing.

Look what Detroit is doing to the Chargers now and that's b/c they play mostly Cover 2 forcing Rivers to take the dink and dunks or forcing the seam pass between the two safeties playing the deep halves of the field. I love what Pagano has done to the D so don't take this post the wrong way fellow Raven'ians but the Greg Mattison style D is also needed sometimes also and can be the best to use against teams like what I have mentioned. Hell, rushing 4 and dropping 7 seems to work on us and we have better pass rushers to make this scheme a lot more effective than Mattison did.
[/quote]

Definitely need to use some against AJ Green next week.

[PeRK82]

You know what is really, really bugging me and they continue to do it. I cant stand it when our DBs are playing not 10 yrds off the LOS, but more like 13,14 yds. Its a problem because from my understanding Jimmy Smith is more of a Physical CB and should be Playing Press coverage and should be getting help from our safeties for over the top plays.

He is what really got me RAGING, Both of our CBs are playing 8 to 10 yds when it is 3 and 5. I knew all the were going to do is a quick pass or curl route and sure enough like clockwork

[Jillester]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1324767032' post='921566']
[b]Cover 2 is a D where it forces pass happy teams like the Chargers to take the underneath stuff which forces them to execute more plays which increases the chances for turnovers and it gives the D more time to adjust to whatever the offense is doing.[/b]
[/quote]

THIS!!!!! Pagano will have to change up the defensive strategy in order to deal with Greene and to compensate for the possibility that CB Cary Williams may not be able to play. ​ Ed has basically disappeared into the background with the recent coverages.

[cookiedood]

[size=4]I am certainly not qualified to suggest, or even recommend what type of defense we should be in, but I am one of the oldest Baltimore football fans. I was here for the Colts, and the USFL team, and have been a loyal Raven fan from day one. My only comment about Chuck Pagano and this years defense is, this is the biggest game of his NFL career. This game has so many important ramifications going forward this year, that I hope that he would solicit the advice of anyone and everyone, and not [/size]go it alone. There is absolutely no doubt that Marvin Lewis has had the Ravens number ever since he left Baltimore. The Bengals play harder against the Ravens than any other team in the NFL. When I first saw this years schedule, I worried more about the last game than any other game on the schedule. The Ravens better be prepared to go to war, because I can guarantee that the Bengals will be prepared.

[Jillester]

[quote name='cookiedood' timestamp='1324777735' post='921843']
[size=4]I am certainly not qualified to suggest, or even recommend what type of defense we should be in, but I am one of the oldest Baltimore football fans. I was here for the Colts, and the USFL team, and have been a loyal Raven fan from day one. My only comment about Chuck Pagano and this years defense is, this is the biggest game of his NFL career. This game has so many important ramifications going forward this year, that I hope that he would solicit the advice of anyone and everyone, and not [/size]go it alone. There is absolutely no doubt that Marvin Lewis has had the Ravens number ever since he left Baltimore. The Bengals play harder against the Ravens than any other team in the NFL. When I first saw this years schedule, I worried more about the last game than any other game on the schedule. The Ravens better be prepared to go to war, because I can guarantee that the Bengals will be prepared.
[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, cookiedude.

[Dfence4champs2052]

I don't know about cover 2.....its susceptible to good TEs which we will face in the playoffs and it requires great play in the middle which Ray still is working his way back from a layoff. I don't think its a great defense honestly. And look at teams that primarily use it this year.....Colts, Bears, Tampa are all struggling.

[wayne]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1324776636' post='921831']
You know what is really, really bugging me and they continue to do it. I cant stand it when our DBs are playing not 10 yrds off the LOS, but more like 13,14 yds. Its a problem because from my understanding Jimmy Smith is more of a Physical CB and should be Playing Press coverage and should be getting help from our safeties for over the top plays.

He is what really got me RAGING, Both of our CBs are playing 8 to 10 yds when it is 3 and 5. I knew all the were going to do is a quick pass or curl route and sure enough like clockwork
[/quote]

Yea, it bugs me to but when we show this look, it sort of let's me know we are running some form of Cover 1 and with how our CBs has sort of let WRs get behind them, that probably explains why they play that far off. Cover 2 will let them get in the WRs face for press coverage and I hope Pagano goes this route more often in the future. Playing far off has its advantages but it also has its disadvantages. Cover 2 would let our CBs play tight coverage.

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1324768385' post='921613']
@ Hawkprey, I agree completely.

@ True, if the pass rush is on, Cover 2 would surely be the way to go, I think you have your logic a little backwards. If the pass rush is on, Cover 2 is the greatest D in the world but when its not on, that's when teams have to start using Cover 1's and 0's for the disguised blitzes. [b]A good balance of the Cover 2 and 1 would be great [/b]though and you lean toward playing one more depending on who you are playing. Playing the Browns, lean more toward Cover 1, playing the Chargers, lean toward more Cover 2.
[/quote]

This.

We've become a predictable run-stop and pass-rush focused D , and a good gameplan and QB can beat any D when they know what to expect. Add in some inexperienced CBs , and QBs like Brees , Brady and Rodgers will be salivating. Just like on offense , we need to maintain some balance on defense , weighted according to the strengths of the opponent , as you said.

We weren't getting to Rivers with 5 and 6 man rushes , so we wouldn't have got to him any less if we had mixed in more 4-man rushes. You can send Webb or a safety on blitzes to keep them guessing , and mixing up the personnel more often will force adjustments that will add to the confusion of changing coverage patterns.

I wonder if Pags is keeping things simple to maintain an easy learning curve. I'd really hate to think our D can't handle a little more complexity in coverage packages at this point in the season.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1324768385' post='921613']
@ Hawkprey, I agree completely.

@ True, if the pass rush is on, Cover 2 would surely be the way to go, I think you have your logic a little backwards. If the pass rush is on, Cover 2 is the greatest D in the world but when its not on, that's when teams have to start using Cover 1's and 0's for the disguised blitzes. A good balance of the Cover 2 and 1 would be great though and you lean toward playing one more depending on who you are playing. Playing the Browns, lean more toward Cover 1, playing the Chargers, lean toward more Cover 2.
[/quote]

i agree!

the cover 2 will definitely aid our CBs with Safety help over the top but it is extremely vulnerable over the middle and to TE streaks. also, physical CBs to jam the WRs and that 4 down linemen pass rush is paramount to its success. we could use Webb and Jimmy as the CBs to press up the WRs with Reed and Pollard over the top! run Carr/Williams as the Nickleback on blitzes. drop Suggs and Redding/Johnson as the DEs and Cody and Ngata as the DTs to stuff the run. Ellerbe, Ray-Ray and McClain can anchor as the LBs. ther cover 2 is really an awesome defense.

~Mili

[BenDufusberger]

Wayne is looking at a problem we have that has to be corrected if we're to have any chance at a SB this year. The Chargers and Phillip Rivers illustrated the problem perfectly.

We can't count on winning a 30-plus point shootout with the likes of Brady , Brees , or Rodgers. Although their teams' defenses are only average - if that - the Ravens haven't demonstrated an ability to reliably put up 30+ points against any defenses this year , weak or strong.

The Ravens D is their primary strength , unquestionably. If we win the SB , it will be because our D held any opposing high-powered offense to a score that we could exceed without our offense having to execute a perfect game.

We're going to need to see more than Ed Reed as a backup to our CBs on deep routes than we saw in San Diego , or anywhere else this year for that matter. And Pollard is not the guy you want in that role , you want a safety or CB with good pass D skills and good speed.

If we get in a situation where we're seeing 4 or 5 WR sets on a regular basis with a capable QB under center , we're going to get embarrassed again , just like in SD , unless we've made a significant defensive adjustment from everything we've seen so far this year.

The offense doesn't worry me nearly as much. It is what it is. We can score 20-27 points most days , on a good day , a little more.

The defense has to carry us to the SB , and based on what happened in SD , I'm afraid they're not prepared to do that. I only hope they prove my fears unfounded.

[wayne]

Well, after reading the Ed Reed blog, it only solidfies what I said as far as Pagano using too much Cover 1. Pagano said Reed is doing his job taking away the middle of the field which he is recquired to do in his scheme and if you look at the games, we don't get beat that much in the seams b/c of Ed and Ed limitted picks is a result of QBs not throwing in the seams ( middle of the field ) that much. I mean, TEs and slot WRs hardly ever do any damage to us and we know why but at times, Pagano can't have Ed babysitting the LB's all the time, sometimes, especially against a team like the Chargers, Ed needs to babysit the CB's meaning more Cover 2. Of course Cover 1 let's you just have all type of flexibility with the defenses you can call but our CBs are not proven yet to be constantly left on islands, Jimmy is a rookie and Cary is just like a rookie and with how great Webb has played this year, he is about the only one I would trust to constantly be left on an island and even then, a safety behind him every now and then would be great.

Simply put, we need the Greg Mattison style D as a mix in sometimes and against some teams, make it our base D with mixing in the Cover 1.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1325364723' post='927663']
Well, after reading the Ed Reed blog, it only solidfies what I said as far as Pagano using too much Cover 1. Pagano said Reed is doing his job taking away the middle of the field which he is recquired to do in his scheme and if you look at the games, we don't get beat that much in the seams b/c of Ed and Ed limitted picks is a result of QBs not throwing in the seams ( middle of the field ) that much. I mean, TEs and slot WRs hardly ever do any damage to us and we know why but at times, Pagano can't have Ed babysitting the LB's all the time, sometimes, especially against a team like the Chargers, Ed needs to babysit the CB's meaning more Cover 2. Of course Cover 1 let's you just have all type of flexibility with the defenses you can call but our CBs are not proven yet to be constantly left on islands, Jimmy is a rookie and Cary is just like a rookie and with how great Webb has played this year, he is about the only one I would trust to constantly be left on an island and even then, a safety behind him every now and then would be great.

[b]Simply put, we need the Greg Mattison style D as a mix in sometimes and against some teams, make it our base D with mixing in the Cover 1.[/b]
[/quote]
Never thought Id see the day that was brought back after how he was crucified the last two years. I never thought Mattison was as bad as people made him out to be, but he was definitely worried about our corners ability to hold up in coverage on their own which lets be honest was awful the last 2 years. But I did not like Mattisons uncreative schemes. What is completely necessary is a mix between the two personalities. Especially when we're waiting on our young corners to develop at an NFL level.

[Corvus]

Look, regardless of what defense we are running, a veteran QB will be able to figure it out after a little bit, especially if your defense gives the same look. My point is, that these vet QBs are gonna make plays here and there, regardless of the defense. What has troubled me for years now is what several of you have already said: the huge cushion our DBs give to receivers at the LOS. I couldn't tell you the last time I remember us pressing and jamming within those 5 yards on a regular basis. This is not something new this season either so I'm not sure why our coaches are coaching these corners this way. You're allowed to be physical and jam receivers within those 5 yards at the LOS. You just drafted Jimmy Smith who can be that prototypical physical press corner, yet in all the extended action we have seen from him, its the same as all our other guys, play 5 to 10 yards of the receiver at the snap. I'm not saying we should be a press/ man coverage defense all the time, but switch it up a little bit and throw some of the timing off between these QBs and their receivers.

[wayne]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1325366031' post='927676']
Look, regardless of what defense we are running, a veteran QB will be able to figure it out after a little bit, especially if your defense gives the same look. My point is, that these vet QBs are gonna make plays here and there, regardless of the defense. What has troubled me for years now is what several of you have already said: the huge cushion our DBs give to receivers at the LOS. I couldn't tell you the last time I remember us pressing and jamming within those 5 yards on a regular basis. This is not something new this season either so I'm not sure why our coaches are coaching these corners this way. You're allowed to be physical and jam receivers within those 5 yards at the LOS. You just drafted Jimmy Smith who can be that prototypical physical press corner, yet in all the extended action we have seen from him, its the same as all our other guys, play 5 to 10 yards of the receiver at the snap. I'm not saying we should be a press/ man coverage defense all the time, but switch it up a little bit and throw some of the timing off between these QBs and their receivers.
[/quote]

Of course a vet QB will figure you out, that's why you switch it up wth Cover 1's,2's an 0's. Rivers knows we love to run a lot of Cover 1 to take away Gates so its not a coiencedence that he has carved us up the last 2 games. He predetermines where he is going with the ball a lot of times and that's extremely bad for a defense when a QB can do this to ya.

Also, you know the reason why our CB plays off like they do, Cover 1 D's. In Cover 1 D's, a CB absolutely can't let a WR get behind them or its a TD. You see the Steelers do this, Patriots, Packers. The best defenses love to run the Cover 1 for obvious reasons. Now, when you look at teams that run a more Cover 2 base D like Jags and Bengals, their CB's play press coverage most of the time b/c they know they have safety help and we have the tall, big CBs to do this so if you want our CBs playing press coverage more, you would want Pagano to call more Cover 2 which our D has the ability to play any scheme with as many D-Coordinators that we have had ( only thing about those teams is they get beat by TEs and slot WRs a lot, you know, in the seams, in the middle ). If I'm not mistakened, when we won the SB, we were mostly a Cover 2 team with the ability to go Cover 1 when we wanted to.

In a perfect world, you can stay in Cover 1 while having your CBs playing press coverage for most of the game but unless you have Revis or Nhamdi, that just ain't happening.

[dontbnvus]

Actually, the key to our defense is not just cover 1 or cover 2. The key to our defense is confusion. To do that you must be able to pin your ears back and take chances and go after the QB full tilt. There is only one way to do that. WE MUST GET A LEAD ! Yes folks. The key to our defense is our offense. It is all based on our defensive players being fresh, fast, and aggresive. And making their offense one dimensional.

How many of you have ever played press coverage as a corner? Let alone against qaulity receivers. I see on here all the time how (insert player name here) is much better suited for press coverage. This can not be said in the NFL. Yes there are times when press coverage is warranted. It is all part of the over all defensive scheme. Again it falls back to deception. Press coverage is soooooooo dependent on the pass rush that it is almost suicide if the rush isnt there.

Cover 2. Really, how good is cover two without a pass rush? Even more important, is the pass rush in cover 1. On that note how good is any "base" defense against a passing attack without a pass rush? You must make that QB make a decision and release in less than 3 seconds. If you dont, finding a hole in the coverage is really fairly easy. A good receiver getting open is not that difficult either if in man coverage and he has the time.

My point here is that you can not always have your corners or a corner in press coverage. The idea is just silly. There are times that you are much better off giving up the dink and dunk passes and try to force them into a mistake. Hence the key word " confusion " For the most part Pagano has been Great at this. He has been showing so many different looks that we have the #3 ranked Defense in the NFL ! That ranking does not come by accident or mistake. 4th against the pass and 2nd against the run. I really think the man knows what he is doing. He also knows what a corner is and is not capable of. Hell, he sees these guys everyday in practice and is going to do everything he can to put them in a position to make a play.

Ok, so then what is the real problem the last few weeks? Honestly, I have not seen too much of a problem on defense with the exception of the SD game. Even then, I would not put the whole blame on our secondary. Look at our pass rush. I know every team in the NFL is dealing with injuries and playing hurt. However I think it is clear to see when Ngata is playing helathy. I honestly believe he is nowhere near 100 percent. Also having Redding out doesnt help. But the Key to our defense is Ngata and his up the middle pressure. The man is a complete pocket wrecking ball when healthy. We have pocket contain. What we have been missing as far as I can tell is our front side pressure. Usually this is provided by Redding or Ngata.

Sorry for the lenghty post. I just don't see the secondary as being terrible. I dont see these young corners as " not very good " . These guys have played terrific football all year. Yes including Williams. I just wanted to point out that pass defense does not solely work on a guy being able to completely shut down a NFL receiver. Also, I would put our secondary against any in the league when it comes to tackles. These guys for the most part have great technique and have shown to be among the best in the league. So really, they are THAT good.

Final words...... Look at the health of our defensive line. and please if anyone has the full scoop on Ngata let me know. Remember, pass rush, confusion, and a lead. Those are what really makes a defensive scheme work. Not press coverage.

[Alexir]

The lack of Cover 2 has a lot to do with Ed's lack of picks. I am all for disguising blitzes but I love having safeties cutting off the deep pass. Just having Ed roam back there while Pollard is playing close to the box doesn't let him take too many chances. To be AJ Green and Dalton, I believe we will have to have a lot of cover 2 looks. Give him a short field with a small window to throw into.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1325367632' post='927694'] Of course a vet QB will figure you out, that's why you switch it up wth Cover 1's,2's an 0's. Rivers knows we love to run a lot of Cover 1 to take away Gates so its not a coiencedence that he has carved us up the last 2 games. He predetermines where he is going with the ball a lot of times and that's extremely bad for a defense when a QB can do this to ya. Also, you know the reason why our CB plays off like they do, Cover 1 D's. In Cover 1 D's, a CB absolutely can't let a WR get behind them or its a TD. You see the Steelers do this, Patriots, Packers. The best defenses love to run the Cover 1 for obvious reasons. Now, when you look at teams that run a more Cover 2 base D like Jags and Bengals, their CB's play press coverage most of the time b/c they know they have safety help and we have the tall, big CBs to do this so if you want our CBs playing press coverage more, you would want Pagano to call more Cover 2 which our D has the ability to play any scheme with as many D-Coordinators that we have had ( only thing about those teams is they get beat by TEs and slot WRs a lot, you know, in the seams, in the middle ). If I'm not mistakened, when we won the SB, we were mostly a Cover 2 team with the ability to go Cover 1 when we wanted to. In a perfect world, you can stay in Cover 1 while having your CBs playing press coverage for most of the game but unless you have Revis or Nhamdi, that just ain't happening.[/quote]

To be fair to the circumstances we face now, alot of that has to do with Ray when we won the super bowl or when he was DPOY. We were Cov 2 based then because Marvin/Nolan could play around with Ray and drop him into a shallow buc zone, or a shell zone whichever. The beauty of Ray back then though was he could accelerated on a dime, that's what Ray has lost, that burst to stick his foot in the ground, change direction and break up a pass or lay out a receiver going for the ball. Ray can't do that anymore, he's strictly a shell zone guy in his own area. We play alot of cov 1 because it allows Ray to be the shallow zone and just spy the middle of the field, while Pollard takes on the TE and McClain takes the HB. However, Rays problem is not getting to a zone so having said that theres times I think we need to go cov 2 and if we get beat by an athletic TE up the seam a couple times on a great throw so be it. At least its not a 50+ yard TD over everyone's head on a double move. Cov 2 as you've stated multiple times will also give the defense a chance to jam at the line and throw off some timing, something extremely critical to offenses like NO, NE and GB. The problem is they all have prolific TEs...so alas a conundrum.

[wayne]

[quote name='dontbnvus' timestamp='1325368141' post='927700']
Actually, the key to our defense is not just cover 1 or cover 2. The key to our defense is confusion. To do that you must be able to pin your ears back and take chances and go after the QB full tilt. There is only one way to do that. WE MUST GET A LEAD ! Yes folks. The key to our defense is our offense. It is all based on our defensive players being fresh, fast, and aggresive. And making their offense one dimensional.

How many of you have ever played press coverage as a corner? Let alone against qaulity receivers. I see on here all the time how (insert player name here) is much better suited for press coverage. This can not be said in the NFL. Yes there are times when press coverage is warranted. It is all part of the over all defensive scheme. Again it falls back to deception. Press coverage is soooooooo dependent on the pass rush that it is almost suicide if the rush isnt there.

Cover 2. Really, how good is cover two without a pass rush? Even more important, is the pass rush in cover 1. On that note how good is any "base" defense against a passing attack without a pass rush? You must make that QB make a decision and release in less than 3 seconds. If you dont, finding a hole in the coverage is really fairly easy. A good receiver getting open is not that difficult either if in man coverage and he has the time.

My point here is that you can not always have your corners or a corner in press coverage. The idea is just silly. There are times that you are much better off giving up the dink and dunk passes and try to force them into a mistake. Hence the key word " confusion " For the most part Pagano has been Great at this. He has been showing so many different looks that we have the #3 ranked Defense in the NFL ! That ranking does not come by accident or mistake. 4th against the pass and 2nd against the run. I really think the man knows what he is doing. He also knows what a corner is and is not capable of. Hell, he sees these guys everyday in practice and is going to do everything he can to put them in a position to make a play.

Ok, so then what is the real problem the last few weeks? Honestly, I have not seen too much of a problem on defense with the exception of the SD game. Even then, I would not put the whole blame on our secondary. Look at our pass rush. I know every team in the NFL is dealing with injuries and playing hurt. However I think it is clear to see when Ngata is playing helathy. I honestly believe he is nowhere near 100 percent. Also having Redding out doesnt help. But the Key to our defense is Ngata and his up the middle pressure. The man is a complete pocket wrecking ball when healthy. We have pocket contain. What we have been missing as far as I can tell is our front side pressure. Usually this is provided by Redding or Ngata.

Sorry for the lenghty post. I just don't see the secondary as being terrible. I dont see these young corners as " not very good " . These guys have played terrific football all year. Yes including Williams. I just wanted to point out that pass defense does not solely work on a guy being able to completely shut down a NFL receiver. Also, I would put our secondary against any in the league when it comes to tackles. These guys for the most part have great technique and have shown to be among the best in the league. So really, they are THAT good.

Final words...... Look at the health of our defensive line. and please if anyone has the full scoop on Ngata let me know. Remember, pass rush, confusion, and a lead. Those are what really makes a defensive scheme work. Not press coverage.
[/quote]

Of course the pass rush is the key, its always the key as well as sitting on a lead, but make no mistake, the scheme matters just as much, whatever look you throw out there. Confusion is a key also but not a nescessity. Look at when our O struggles, we normally struggle against teams that what you see is what you get. Cover 2 type of team with emphasis on beating their one on ones. Even under Mattison last season, he was very vanilla and for the first 6 weeks, we had the #1 pass D in the league and a lot of QBs struggle with this. When we destroyed the Pats in the playoffs a few yeas ago, we beat them with a what you see, what you get style D of Mattison with mostly a Cover 2 look with man to man coverage and depending on players winning their one on ones with occasionally throwing a blitz his way with a Cover 1 look. Is confusion a great thing to have, of course, but a what you see is what you get style D can work just as good and it works greatly against a lot of the QBs in the league. Mix it up with the Cover 2's and 1's, that's all I'm saying.

[wayne]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1325373959' post='927749']
The lack of Cover 2 has a lot to do with Ed's lack of picks. I am all for disguising blitzes but I love having safeties cutting off the deep pass. Just having Ed roam back there while Pollard is playing close to the box doesn't let him take too many chances. To be AJ Green and Dalton, I believe we will have to have a lot of cover 2 looks. Give him a short field with a small window to throw into.
[/quote]

Exactly, I agree whole heartly!

[wayne]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1325375928' post='927765']


To be fair to the circumstances we face now, alot of that has to do with Ray when we won the super bowl or when he was DPOY. We were Cov 2 based then because Marvin/Nolan could play around with Ray and drop him into a shallow buc zone, or a shell zone whichever. The beauty of Ray back then though was he could accelerated on a dime, that's what Ray has lost, that burst to stick his foot in the ground, change direction and break up a pass or lay out a receiver going for the ball. Ray can't do that anymore, he's strictly a shell zone guy in his own area. We play alot of cov 1 because it allows Ray to be the shallow zone and just spy the middle of the field, while Pollard takes on the TE and McClain takes the HB. However, Rays problem is not getting to a zone so having said that theres times I think we need to go cov 2 and if we get beat by an athletic TE up the seam a couple times on a great throw so be it. At least its not a 50+ yard TD over everyone's head on a double move. Cov 2 as you've stated multiple times will also give the defense a chance to jam at the line and throw off some timing, something extremely critical to offenses like NO, NE and GB. The problem is they all have prolific TEs...so alas a conundrum.
[/quote]

I agree, let the athletic TE beat us sometimes with running Cover 2.

[dontbnvus]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1325377586' post='927790']
Of course the pass rush is the key, its always the key as well as sitting on a lead, but make no mistake, the scheme matters just as much, whatever look you throw out there. Confusion is a key also but not a nescessity. Look at when our O struggles, we normally struggle against teams that what you see is what you get. Cover 2 type of team with emphasis on beating their one on ones. Even under Mattison last season, he was very vanilla and for the first 6 weeks, we had the #1 pass D in the league and a lot of QBs struggle with this. When we destroyed the Pats in the playoffs a few yeas ago, we beat them with a what you see, what you get style D of Mattison with mostly a Cover 2 look with man to man coverage and depending on players winning their one on ones with occasionally throwing a blitz his way with a Cover 1 look. Is confusion a great thing to have, of course, but a what you see is what you get style D can work just as good and it works greatly against a lot of the QBs in the league. Mix it up with the Cover 2's and 1's, that's all I'm saying.
[/quote]

I agree 100 percent with the "mix itup comment" I feel that Pagano has done a great job of that this year. ( with the exception of the SD game ) I have nothing against the cover 2. Or any other scheme for that matter. But I can also say that I saw Mattisons " what you see is what you get style D " Get torched MANY times in second halves last year once offenses made their adjustments. If I remember correctly, Almost ALL our losses last year came with lost 4th quarter leads.

ALL defensive schemes have some weaknesses and I am sure you know them. This is why i pointed out the need for confusion and pass rush. Also keep in mind that the Ravens usually have a " stop the run first " mentality. I think that is why you see the cover1 more often than not. That and it frees us up to do do more snazzy stuff with blitz packages.

That being said..... I would love to see us go into a cover2 with Zibby and Reed deep zones and Pollard more as a LB role. I think he would be better in coverage than most LBs on those big body TEs and backs but would still be able to lay the wood incase of a run like a delayed draw. Just some of the things I would like to see them mix it up with. I would LOVE to have the overhead view of these games. LOL all us armchair DCs could really have a field day then.