Jason La Canfora Sees Norv Headed To Baltimore

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325077064' post='924962']
silly lil ol me, I just like our team I see it winning like it never has before we have an [b]consistent[/b] o finally the one i was waiting 12 years to see all these guys(cam flacco harbs) have done was impress me call me a homer or naive but until someone actually has a poor performance i dont feel we should fire someone and break up a winning formula again silly lil ol me
[/quote]

I would hardly call this offense consistent. And yes, if this was 10 years ago and our defense was still the way it was back then, and the rules were the way they were back then, I'd be okay with this. We'd win even more and probably have won a few Superbowls. But the rules have changed. You have to have a great offense commanded by a great quarterback, or at least one on an incredible hot streak, to win anymore. Roethlisberger's 1st Superbowl seems like the last of the "caretaker qb" wins in this era. Then, you get Peyton, Eli, Roethlisberger the pro-bowler, Brees, Rodgers. Look at the Jets. They had by far the best defenses the last 2 seasons, but in the end lack of elite qb play cost them. You have to have an elite qb to win. Look at the teams left. Do you think the Bengals can win it all? The Texans? The Broncos? The 49ers? I would say no, because in every game they had to rely on their qb to win, they FAILED. Is TJ Yates capable of beating the Ravens, when Matt Shaub couldn't? Will Tim Tebow be able to take on the Steelers and Ben? Alex Smith and the 49ers vs. the Lions great offense, can he score with them? Can he outscore Eli and the Giants? It remains to be seen, but I stand by my belief that at the end of the day, the Lombardi Trophy will be hoisted by a team who got elite play out of their quarterback in the postseason. And this season Joe doesn't look like that guy. Last season he did. What changed? His [b]coaching[/b]. Do you believe Joe playing the way he is now can win it all? And why isn't that directly the responsibility of the qb coach and offensive coordinator, who in this case are the same person? If Jim Harbaugh can have such a tremendous impact on Alex Smith, is it so hard to believe that Cam Cameron has a negative effect on Joe, especially when Ravens players say that this is the case?

[Mahatma_Sloth]

"was listening on 105.7, and [b]I think LJ Smith's cousin called in[/b]. LJ told him that the Ravens will never go anywhere b/c Cam is the biggest idiot in the league as far as offensive coordination. He said that he hung Joe out to dry bigtime in that year he was with the Ravens. Everyone knows Joe absolutely hates Cam."

so it wasn't a direct source in the first place and just a bunch of hearsay. where is the proof that flacco hates cam? you all are just gonna fall all over LJs cousins words when he calls into a talk radio show and takes the popular side of a hot topic, ya sounds solid to me. I lol at u all

and as for the 7 hour meeting article Zorn was in the meeting with cam [b]and harbs[/b]. I read nothing about cam being judge jury and executioner. sounded like a real tough decision was made by the staff after a lengthy evaluation to me. in a proper and methodical fassion. and it is good flacco was friends with those guys as i am sure they are quite affable but this is a business and business decisions were made in the best interest of the team after what seemed to be a lengthy deliberation

also if you read some of your fellow posters posts in this thread you will read of marked improvements in certain mechanics of joes

I will address your concerns about our offenses consistency after sunday when we have the final numbers of the season

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325079946' post='924980']

I would hardly call this offense consistent. And yes, if this was 10 years ago and our defense was still the way it was back then, and the rules were the way they were back then, I'd be okay with this. We'd win even more and probably have won a few Superbowls. But the rules have changed. You have to have a great offense commanded by a great quarterback, or at least one on an incredible hot streak, to win anymore. Roethlisberger's 1st Superbowl seems like the last of the "caretaker qb" wins in this era. Then, you get Peyton, Eli, Roethlisberger the pro-bowler, Brees, Rodgers. Look at the Jets. They had by far the best defenses the last 2 seasons, but in the end lack of elite qb play cost them. You have to have an elite qb to win. Look at the teams left. Do you think the Bengals can win it all? The Texans? The Broncos? The 49ers? I would say no, because in every game they had to rely on their qb to win, they FAILED. Is TJ Yates capable of beating the Ravens, when Matt Shaub couldn't? Will Tim Tebow be able to take on the Steelers and Ben? Alex Smith and the 49ers vs. the Lions great offense, can he score with them? Can he outscore Eli and the Giants? It remains to be seen, but I stand by my belief that at the end of the day, the Lombardi Trophy will be hoisted by a team who got elite play out of their quarterback in the postseason. And this season Joe doesn't look like that guy. Last season he did. What changed? His [b]coaching[/b]. Do you believe Joe playing the way he is now can win it all? And why isn't that directly the responsibility of the qb coach and offensive coordinator, who in this case are the same person? If Jim Harbaugh can have such a tremendous impact on Alex Smith, is it so hard to believe that Cam Cameron has a negative effect on Joe, especially when Ravens players say that this is the case?
[/quote]
so your not even gonna watch the post season then right? since clearly we dont have a chance. my philosophy is that every team in the playoffs has a chance because they are in the playoffs. some have a better chance than others but everyone has a chance. and yes I believe joe can win it all this year and I think he is a better qb than sanchez. and which players are you talking about, LJ Smiths cousin? I lol again

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325104348' post='925302']
"was listening on 105.7, and [b]I think LJ Smith's cousin called in[/b]. LJ told him that the Ravens will never go anywhere b/c Cam is the biggest idiot in the league as far as offensive coordination. He said that he hung Joe out to dry bigtime in that year he was with the Ravens. Everyone knows Joe absolutely hates Cam."

so it wasn't a direct source in the first place and just a bunch of hearsay. where is the proof that flacco hates cam? you all are just gonna fall all over LJs cousins words when he calls into a talk radio show and takes the popular side of a hot topic, ya sounds solid to me. I lol at u all

and as for the 7 hour meeting article Zorn was in the meeting with cam [b]and harbs[/b]. I read nothing about cam being judge jury and executioner. sounded like a real tough decision was made by the staff after a lengthy evaluation to me. in a proper and methodical fassion. and it is good flacco was friends with those guys as i am sure they are quite affable but this is a business and business decisions were made in the best interest of the team after what seemed to be a lengthy deliberation

also if you read some of your fellow posters posts in this thread you will read of marked improvements in certain mechanics of joes

I will address your concerns about our offenses consistency after sunday when we have the final numbers of the season
[/quote]

I didn't mean to make it sound like I was insulting you when I said you support Cam, if that's what you felt. If you feel that way, I apologize. I'm just surprised, is all. My point is, Joe liked Zorn and he liked Saunders. Cam didn't. Who ultimately should be the judge on a qb coach: the quarterback or a guy who has never developed a quarterback? So why would LJ Smith's cousin get on a radio and talk trash about Cam Cameron if it wasn't true? Why would other fans on other boards (Miami, San Diego) talk about other players having a problem with Cam's attitude if it wasn't true? Daniel Wilcox, former Raven, also said the same things, directly from his own mouth - is he lying, too?

[url="http://baltimoresportsreport.com/ex-raven-daniel-wilcox-talks-camerons-arrogance-harbaughs-lie-11793.html"]http://baltimorespor...-lie-11793.html[/url]

"Nobody should be shocked if the Ravens offense implodes again, in a game that should go a long way toward deciding the AFC North. The Steelers, remember, still have their secret weapon: Baltimore offensive coordinator Cam Cameron."

[url="http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2011/11/06/starkey-oh-those-arrogant-ravens/"]http://pittsburgh.cb...rrogant-ravens/[/url]

"And Cam Cameron, who bombed his first interview for the job, taught us that overlooking our initial impression might cause us to "fail forward fast."

[url="http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-12-27/sports/fl-omar-kelly-miami-dolphins-1228-20111227_1_brian-hartline-tony-sparano-erik-walden"]http://articles.sun-...ano-erik-walden[/url]

"As far as loyatly is concerned, he was always loyal to his coaches publicly and privately. He defended Dave Wannstedt, Jim Bates, Nick Saban and Tony Sparano staunchly. No, he wasn't too fond of Cam Cameron. No he never defended Cameron publicly or privately. Um, I understand why."

[url="http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2011/12/my-favorite-memory-of-jason-taylor-believe-it-or-not-it-came-in-the-forgettable-2006-seasn-when-nick-sabans-team-was-under.html"]http://miamiherald.t...-was-under.html[/url]

So now Jason Taylor, a guy who defended Dave Wannstedt and Jim Bates, a guy who never threw any coach under the bus, is critical of Cam Cameron, and it's a fabrication?

Like how much more do you want? Just Google it yourself and check out fanboards of what other people have to say.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325105668' post='925322']
Who ultimately should be the judge on a qb coach: the quarterback or [b]a guy who has never developed a quarterback[/b]?
[/quote]

Cam deserves a good amount of the criticism that comes away but saying he's never developed a QB is a stretch.

He wasn't putting up the gaudy numbers he is now(partly because his supporting cast wasn't as good) but Brees developed under Cam. As did Rivers. And before them, Cam had worked with QBs like Jim Harbaugh, Elvis Grbac, Todd Collins, Gus Ferrotte, Trent Green and Antwan Randle El(when he was at Indiana).

None of those QBs are considered all-time players but let's not pretend Cam had no bearing on their development.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1325109328' post='925369']

Cam deserves a good amount of the criticism that comes away but saying he's never developed a QB is a stretch.

He wasn't putting up the gaudy numbers he is now(partly because his supporting cast wasn't as good) but Brees developed under Cam. As did Rivers. And before them, Cam had worked with QBs like Jim Harbaugh, Elvis Grbac, Todd Collins, Gus Ferrotte, Trent Green and Antwan Randle El(when he was at Indiana).

None of those QBs are considered all-time players but let's not pretend Cam had no bearing on their development.
[/quote]

Regardless, Brees and Rivers didn't truly blossom until Cam was no longer in the picture... he needs to go if Joe is ever going to grow as a QB.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1325109328' post='925369']

Cam deserves a good amount of the criticism that comes away but saying he's never developed a QB is a stretch.

He wasn't putting up the gaudy numbers he is now(partly because his supporting cast wasn't as good) but Brees developed under Cam. As did Rivers. And before them, Cam had worked with QBs like Jim Harbaugh, Elvis Grbac, Todd Collins, Gus Ferrotte, Trent Green and Antwan Randle El(when he was at Indiana).

None of those QBs are considered all-time players but let's not pretend Cam had no bearing on their development.
[/quote]

Well since guys like Norv Turner, Marty Schottenheimer, etc. were also around, we can't really say what role Cam had in their development. What I know is that with other guys around, some of Cam's qb's succeeded. You have to look at this year and 2007 in Miami to get quarterbacks that were solely taught by Cam Cameron. Again, the results, to me, are clear. And I recently posted a response which had links to several articles which indicate to me that Cam not only couldn't develop QBs but alienated a lot of players wherever he went.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1325109567' post='925372']
Regardless, Brees and Rivers didn't truly blossom until Cam was no longer in the picture... he needs to go if Joe is ever going to grow as a QB.
[/quote]

They also didn't blossom till they had considerable experience as starters and better weapons than when Cam was their coach.

But I definitely agree it's time to move on from Cam. His influence on this offense has plateaued and the results aren't good enough.


[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325109773' post='925375']
Well since guys like Norv Turner, Marty Schottenheimer, etc. were also around, we can't really say what role Cam had in their development. What I know is that with other guys around, some of Cam's qb's succeeded. You have to look at this year and 2007 in Miami to get quarterbacks that were solely taught by Cam Cameron. Again, the results, to me, are clear. And I recently posted a response which had links to several articles which indicate to me that Cam not only couldn't develop QBs but alienated a lot of players wherever he went.
[/quote]

No, we can't accurately say how much Cam influenced their development. But I don't think we can say he had nothing to do with their growth either.

Neither Lemon nor Beck had talent you could mold and Cam was only in Miami for one year, so I don't think using them as examples of his QB-developing skills is fair.

His arrogance and issues with control are one thing, but the guy hasn't been useless in developing QBs.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1325110611' post='925389']

They also didn't blossom till they had considerable experience as starters and better weapons than when Cam was their coach.

But I definitely agree it's time to move on from Cam. His influence on this offense has plateaued and the results aren't good enough.




[b]No, we can't accurately say how much Cam influenced their development. But I don't think we can say he had nothing to do with their growth either.[/b]

Neither Lemon nor Beck had talent you could mold and Cam was only in Miami for one year, so I don't think using them as examples of his QB-developing skills is fair.

His arrogance and issues with control are one thing, but the guy hasn't been useless in developing QBs.
[/quote]

True. Let's just put it this way: I think, whatever Cam Cameron did or didn't do for this offense and Joe in particular, it's clear to me, especially if we don't win it all this year, that it's time to part ways with Cam Cameron and see if another offensive coordinator can come in here and further develop the offense and Joe so that they are more effective and, more importantly, more consistent.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325105668' post='925322']

I didn't mean to make it sound like I was insulting you when I said you support Cam, if that's what you felt. I'm just surprised at all. My point is, Joe liked Zorn and he liked Saunders. Cam didn't. Who ultimately should be the judge on a qb coach: the quarterback or a guy who has never developed a quarterback? So why would LJ Smith's cousin get on a radio and talk trash about Cam Cameron if it wasn't true? Why would other fans on other boards (Miami, San Diego) talk about other players having a problem with Cam's attitude if it wasn't true? Daniel Wilcox, former Raven, also said the same things, directly from his own mouth - is he lying, too?

[b]I dont care you are the one who sounds insulted that i like him, really. it may or may not be true but why would lj send his cousin to talk just dont sound right to me something queer is going on[/b]

[url="http://baltimoresportsreport.com/ex-raven-daniel-wilcox-talks-camerons-arrogance-harbaughs-lie-11793.html"]http://baltimorespor...-lie-11793.html[/url]

[b]im sure a lot of billicks players were upset they didnt like harbs at first either i mean he said something like they would rather play for mike tomlin or something just sound like sour grapes and im pretty sure the player/coach relationship has grown and changed since then [/b]

"Nobody should be shocked if the Ravens offense implodes again, in a game that should go a long way toward deciding the AFC North. The Steelers, remember, still have their secret weapon: Baltimore offensive coordinator Cam Cameron."

[url="http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2011/11/06/starkey-oh-those-arrogant-ravens/"]http://pittsburgh.cb...rrogant-ravens/[/url]

[b]why you bring this trash here it is a basic hype piece from a homer sports columnist [/b]

"And Cam Cameron, who bombed his first interview for the job, taught us that overlooking our initial impression might cause us to "fail forward fast."

[url="http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-12-27/sports/fl-omar-kelly-miami-dolphins-1228-20111227_1_brian-hartline-tony-sparano-erik-walden"]http://articles.sun-...ano-erik-walden[/url]

"As far as loyatly is concerned, he was always loyal to his coaches publicly and privately. He defended Dave Wannstedt, Jim Bates, Nick Saban and Tony Sparano staunchly. No, he wasn't too fond of Cam Cameron. No he never defended Cameron publicly or privately. Um, I understand why."

[url="http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2011/12/my-favorite-memory-of-jason-taylor-believe-it-or-not-it-came-in-the-forgettable-2006-seasn-when-nick-sabans-team-was-under.html"]http://miamiherald.t...-was-under.html[/url]

So now Jason Taylor, a guy who defended Dave Wannstedt and Jim Bates, a guy who never threw any coach under the bus, is critical of Cam Cameron, and it's a fabrication?

[b]I told you many times the miami thing is moot HC is a much different position than OC and he failed at it. so what? he is an OC now this argument is invalid stop making it [/b]

Like how much more do you want? Just Google it yourself and check out fanboards of what other people have to say.

[b]how much more do you want? I do not care what others have to say about our team its players coaches and office. all i know is that ever since this regime got here in 2008 all we have done is win and go to playoffs like we have never done before. so how much more do you want? a guaranteed super bowl? it doesnt exist! an O that wont make mistakes? it dosent exist! all i see our team doing is geat things. things that we have never done before ever things that other nfl teams have not done since since this regime started things that no other player has done for our team and in the nfl. must suck to be such a pessimist. cheer up man we had another winning season and we have another shot at the bowl things are not as dark as you make them appear to be[/b]
[/quote]
[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325109773' post='925375']

Well since guys like Norv Turner, Marty Schottenheimer, etc. were also around, we can't really say what role Cam had in their development. What I know is that with other guys around, some of Cam's qb's succeeded. You have to look at this year and 2007 in Miami to get quarterbacks that were solely taught by Cam Cameron. Again, the results, to me, are clear. And I recently posted a response which had links to several articles which indicate to me that Cam not only couldn't develop QBs but alienated a lot of players wherever he went.
[/quote]
dont worry bout giving credit where it is due that would mess with your point of views validity right

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325111916' post='925404']

True. Let's just put it this way: I think, whatever Cam Cameron did or didn't do for this offense and Joe in particular, it's clear to me, especially if we don't win it all this year, that it's time to part ways with Cam Cameron and see if another offensive coordinator can come in here and further develop the offense and Joe so that they are more effective and, more importantly, more consistent.
[/quote]

Agreed. Well said.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325112639' post='925419']
dont worry bout giving credit where it is due that would mess with your point of views validity right
[/quote]

What I want is an offensive coordinator that the players believe in, and I feel that they don't believe in Cam Cameron. Several articles and sources have pointed that out. And, tbh with you, yes I have a selfish reason for wanting Cam gone, besides the fact that I don't think he is a good fit for this offense. I am not a fan of the Air Coryell system of offense. I think it's outdated, and that installing a WC offense will be more friendly to the talents we have on the team, both offensively and defensively. But if it comes down to it and the choice is between Cam Cameron and Norv Turner, or Cam Cameron and Al Saunders, I will take Turner and Saunders over Cameron every time. This offense is inconsistent, and the quarterback is inconsistent. Cam Cameron had four years here to show what he could do. If he can't get the offense to run in the playoffs for a fourth straight time, then I think someone else should be brought in. Look what a new staff did for Alex Smith and the 49ers. Is it so unreasonable to suggest that there are better OCs out there than Cameron, and that one of them might help the offense reach its full potential and help get this team to a Superbowl victory?

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325112639' post='925419']
dont worry bout giving credit where it is due that would mess with your point of views validity right
[/quote]

you ignored is post, didn't validate any of his points, and then instead of making a case for yourself, you say this? And I'll give Cam credit where it's due. All of it. Our offense's inconsistency is all his credit in my mind. He's stifled the growth of our players and has cost us many crucial games. And the games we have one are more because of our defense's ability to keep it close and Flacco's ability to somehow be patient enough to make his predictable game plans work.

[chesapeakeaviator]

Norv is a great offensive mind, always has been, and belongs as an OC. Baltimore would be a great fit. He's not so arrogant that he can't abandon a strategy and improvise when the game takes on an unexpected direction. That being said, we need to retool the OL a bit or it just plain won't matter who we bring in.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325113281' post='925431']

What I want is an offensive coordinator that the players believe in, and I feel that they don't believe in Cam Cameron. Several articles and sources have pointed that out. And, tbh with you, yes I have a selfish reason for wanting Cam gone, besides the fact that I don't think he is a good fit for this offense. I am not a fan of the Air Coryell system of offense. I think it's outdated, and that installing a WC offense will be more friendly to the talents we have on the team, both offensively and defensively. But if it comes down to it and the choice is between Cam Cameron and Norv Turner, or Cam Cameron and Al Saunders, I will take Turner and Saunders over Cameron every time. This offense is inconsistent, and the quarterback is inconsistent. Cam Cameron had four years here to show what he could do. If he can't get the offense to run in the playoffs for a fourth straight time, then I think someone else should be brought in. Look what a new staff did for Alex Smith and the 49ers. Is it so unreasonable to suggest that there are better OCs out there than Cameron, and that one of them [b]might help[/b] the offense reach its full potential and help get this team to a Superbowl victory?
[/quote]
thats the thing it may help it may hurt when you make changes but i know exactly what we got now and it has consistently produced the same numbers every year which he tried to open up this year and admittedly didnt get the production he wanted but we will still finish on par for what we have don the last 3 years 3,300+passer 1,200+rusher playoffs what is wrong with the job he has done when he trys new things in adverse circumstances it dosent pay off yet he still hits his averages. to me that says this is where we are at solid, at the vary least we can expect numbers around this. but if we hit those 28 drop passes, or if we zig instead of zag here, or if we throw on target here. I am just sayin we are pretty damn good and have consistently been so for 4 years and we are only going to get better. but you know all that stupid optimism i have for my team

year/total yrds/passing/rushing/td/1st/3rd/4th/sack/fg
2011 / 5072 / 3297 /1775 / 38 / 297 / 97 / 4 / 30 / 29 (1 game left)
2010 / 5166 / 3335 / 1831 / 40 / 303 / 82 / 4 / 27 / 26
2009 / 5619 / 3419 / 2200 / 47 / 320 / 89 / 6 / 32 / 21
2008 / 5184 / 2808 / 2376 / 42 / 300 / 95 / 7 / 34 / 28

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1325113407' post='925434']

you ignored is post, didn't validate any of his points, and then instead of making a case for yourself, you say this? And I'll give Cam credit where it's due. All of it. Our offense's inconsistency is all his credit in my mind. He's stifled the growth of our players and has cost us many crucial games. And the games we have one are more because of our defense's ability to keep it close and Flacco's ability to somehow be patient enough to make his predictable game plans work.
[/quote]
lol.... wow..... k

i was thinking the same thing about his post

but yours was a gem, thanks

[Mahatma_Sloth]

jesus, i have been away too long. you all have gotten unruly

i got my eye on you fly [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=7dIiV4AKzOM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=7dIiV4AKzOM[/url]

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325115897' post='925466']
jesus, i have been away too long. you all have gotten unruly

i got my eye on you fly [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=7dIiV4AKzOM"]http://www.youtube.c...n&v=7dIiV4AKzOM[/url]
[/quote]

Is your signature for real? You want Cam to stay?

[Fricknmaniac]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1325117323' post='925487']

Is your signature for real? You want Cam to stay?
[/quote]

Or maybe FTW in this case stands for "[expletive deleted] The Wanker" instead of for the win.

[bauer77]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1325117323' post='925487']

Is your signature for real? You want Cam to stay?
[/quote]

I think maybe he is Cam.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='bauer77' timestamp='1325118776' post='925512']

I think maybe he is Cam.
[/quote]

It wouldn't surprise me if someone on this board was Cam. I'm convinced Troy Smith is incognito on this board, so why not Cam?

[Mahatma_Sloth]

oh you boys would think something like that wouldn't you. more quality posts. keep em coming

imma just repost this so yall know about what level of conversation i was hoping for

thats the thing it may help it may hurt when you make changes but i know exactly what we got now and it has consistently produced the same numbers every year which he tried to open up this year and admittedly didnt get the production he wanted but we will still finish on par for what we have don the last 3 years 3,300+passer 1,200+rusher playoffs what is wrong with the job he has done when he trys new things in adverse circumstances it dosent pay off yet he still hits his averages. to me that says this is where we are at solid, at the vary least we can expect numbers around this. but if we hit those 28 drop passes, or if we zig instead of zag here, or if we throw on target here. I am just sayin we are pretty damn good and have consistently been so for 4 years and we are only going to get better. but you know all that stupid optimism i have for my team

year/total yrds/passing/rushing/td/1st/3rd/4th/sack/fg
2011 / 5072 / 3297 /1775 / 38 / 297 / 97 / 4 / 30 / 29 (1 game left)
2010 / 5166 / 3335 / 1831 / 40 / 303 / 82 / 4 / 27 / 26
2009 / 5619 / 3419 / 2200 / 47 / 320 / 89 / 6 / 32 / 21
2008 / 5184 / 2808 / 2376 / 42 / 300 / 95 / 7 / 34 / 28

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325115897' post='925466']jesus, i have been away too long. you all have gotten unruly

i got my eye on you fly [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=7dIiV4AKzOM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=7dIiV4AKzOM[/url][/quote]


haha, shoulda known I'd get the blame for all the new hellions on board. Thats what happens when the captain leaves his ship....MUTINY!

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1325125550' post='925596']
haha, shoulda known I'd get the blame for all the new hellions on board. Thats what happens when the captain leaves his ship....MUTINY!
[/quote]
haha you the only one here that can make an intelligible argument, a lot of which were vary convincing(though i wouldn't admit it) during the great Clayton debates

both my friend and my nemesis, cheers!

[flynismo]

Man, speaking of Clayton ... can't lie, I miss the guy. Definitely understand the decision to release him, but still would like to have seen him in the slot and as a return specialist...besides, now we have nothing to argue about lol...
well, maybe Cam. I'm (no longer) a Cam hater, but I certainly don't want to keep him around longer than necessary either. So, for old time sake, Cam sucks. Couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag!

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325114543' post='925452']
lol.... wow..... k

i was thinking the same thing about his post

but yours was a gem, thanks
[/quote]

You really have some nerve. But whatever. You seem to think you think and reason above and beyond most of us here, so I won't bother trying to make a rational arguement or whatever with you because apparantly no one on this board can....

Listen, nothing personal, but you sound way too condenscending to take seriously. If you would style your posts like you're trying to scold us as a parent scolds his/her child, I could probably listen to what you have to say. But just blowing off posts with your casually rude remarks isn't gonna make any of us want to listen to anything you have to say.

Sorry, I suppose that was all irrational too.

[theFRANCHISE]

I know it's been said several times throughout this thread, but it bears repeating that Norv Turner is a much better offensive coordinator than head coach.

Remember, head coach is an administrative position that requires a coach to be a jack of all trades and master of none. He essentially operates in a supervisory role, which is something that Turner doesn't do well.

Norv Turner's track record has proven that he's an excellent offensive coordinator and there's no reason for the Ravens [i]not[/i] to jump on the chance to sign him as soon as the season's over, nor is there any reason for Turner to sign with any other team when the Ravens would offer both top-dollar [i]and[/i] the best collection of talent compared to other teams likely to need an OC.

[Sizzlebshu]

Just to throw my 2cents in here, Cam has to go. More than anything else its because of his philosophy on offense. I believe he has said and im sure it was posted in a thread somewhere that he doesnt gameplan for offenses and just expects to be able to execute the same gameplan against every oppn and make it work. This mindset is poor for an offensive,,,hell any coordinator to have. Its basically says I am just here to earn my paycheck and idc about anything else. Im not saying he has to switch and retool his whole offense every week because that would be insane on the other end of the spectrum but I would be looking at defenses with Flacco and pointing out potential weak spots. I mean look at Peyton and Brees. They have meetings running scenarios and pinpointing weaknesses in their oppn for him to take advantage of. This is what needs to happen. This goes double for cam since he is also Flacco's qb coach now.

The other reason he has to go is because the players don't have faith in him. This doesnt need any explanation. If the players dont feel like their offense can score than they don't play as effectively and lose games because of it.

Note how I didnt even mention the games where Rice barely saw the ball. The reason that he didnt get the ball against seattle and the chargers was because we got blown out early and by a large margin. In the seahawks game it was due to turnovers leading to a large margin blowout but I'll admit we almost came back in that game. In the chargers game we were straight up outplayed. If cam had run the ball more in that game, mounting a comeback would have taken too long. The tennesee game we just got beat straight up no way around it, but the jax game was Cam's only truly terrible game from a playcalling standpoint. The difference between us and jax was Mojo got the ball 30 times and rice got it 8 even tho running the ball wasnt working either way. Now I'm not saying cam has called a good game in any of our other games this season win or loss, but the only one I found truly appalling was jacksonville. That game was easily winnable and Cam got scared into losing it. The other 3 losses werent entirely his fault an were due to poor execution by the defense and special teams.

Now while Cam is a problem with the offense, i don't think he is the only problem. I personally don't like the Air Coryell system. Idc who is running it, whether it is Norv or Cam or anyone else. San Diego has everything it needs to run that system perfectly. They have an elite qb, te, 2 elite receivers who are fast and huge at 6ft 5, a decent o line when healthy. Despite all of this though, they manage to blow it every year. They offense manages to disappear for half the season (gee where have we seen this before), Now a lot of you are blaming Norv being at the wrong position on the coaching staff, but I don't believe it is entirely attributed to that. I personally think that Air Coryell when executed correctly can be the most dangerous system in the game as we see when the chargers show up. However, the problem is that I havent seen any team able to execute perfectly and consistently for a whole season. The fact is that its possible that the system may be too hard (insert whatever word you like here instead of hard) to execute well every game. I mean if the chargers struggle to do it with floyd vjax and gates how can we expect to do it better than them with our team. Not knocking anyone on our team, but the chargers offense is way more potent than ours (since they built around that and we built around our D). There is a reason that not many teams in the nfl run the system. It may not be a practical system to run and not as efficient consistently as something like the WC offense.

That leads me to my next point which is that even if Norv gets fired, do we really want him here even as an OC? Here is a guy that has taken one of the most talented teams in football and underachieved every year? Not exactly impressive. When he is on and his team can execute his gameplan he puts together one of the most dominating offenses I have ever seen. I will admit that, but havent we also seen some games like that from Cam? I'll be it that they are few and far between, but we have had some high scoring games offensively. Basically what you're betting on by hiring Norv are two things. The first is that he will be consistent in calling gameplans that will lead to a very productive offense. The second is that he will be able to get the offense to execute his gameplan. Even if he can do the first(and I don't doubt that he could should he focus on it as OC), if he wasn't able to do the second in San Diego, I don't give him good odds of doing it here.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1325144704' post='925769']

You really have some nerve. But whatever. You seem to think you think and reason above and beyond most of us here, so I won't bother trying to make a rational arguement or whatever with you because apparantly no one on this board can....

Listen, nothing personal, but you sound way too condenscending to take seriously. If you would style your posts like you're trying to scold us as a parent scolds his/her child, I could probably listen to what you have to say. But just blowing off posts with your casually rude remarks isn't gonna make any of us want to listen to anything you have to say.

Sorry, I suppose that was all irrational too.
[/quote]
ya im an elitist with my eccentric difference of opinion and fancy facts its all smoke and mirrors
i dont know if im above you or below you or on your left or right.... im thinking all around you like the atmosphere
dont be so sensitive i can and will have a conversation but i hate when i bring up a good point and it is blatantly disregarded because it clashes with their perspective i have read and considered a lot of things in this thread but to be honest there is just a lot of over opinionated filler, platitudes if you will i would say its about a 70/30 ratio

i said
Cameron was the quarterbacks coach for the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins"]Washington Redskins[/url] between 1994 and 1996. He is credited with guiding quarterback [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Frerotte"]Gus Frerotte[/url] to his only [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Bowl"]Pro Bowl[/url] appearance in 1997, and also played a key role in the development of Pro Bowl quarterback [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Green"]Trent Green"[/url]

he said
Well since guys like Norv Turner, Marty Schottenheimer, etc. were also around, we can't really say what role Cam had in their development. What I know is that with other guys around, some of Cam's qb's succeeded.

i said
dont worry bout giving credit where it is due that would mess with your point of views validity right

you said
you ignored [h]is post, didn't validate any of his points, and then [b]instead of making a case for yourself[/b], you say this? And I'll give Cam credit where it's due. All of it. Our offense's inconsistency is all his credit in my mind. He's stifled the growth of our players and has cost us many crucial games. And the games we have one[won] are more because of our defense's ability to keep it close and Flacco's ability to somehow be patient enough to make his predictable game plans work.

see thats the thing i have made a case over and over and it is incessantly overlooked just read back through the threads look at my elitist posts. if your face doesnt melt off, you will see that. then you just give more opinionated boggle babble. just watched the second steelers game again. man what a great one! we had the lead but the d surrendered it you would think it was all over, what with our predictable o gameplan and all. then, in the final 2 min, we drive it 92 yards! there was a bunch of drama with 4th down conversions, a bunch of dropped passes, but in the end flacco hits our blossoming rookie wr for the game winner!!.... but cam has nothing to do with any of that, right?

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1325145229' post='925770']
I know it's been said several times throughout this thread, but it bears repeating that Norv Turner is a much better offensive coordinator than head coach.

Remember, head coach is an administrative position that requires a coach to be a jack of all trades and master of none. He essentially operates in a supervisory role, which is something that Turner doesn't do well.

Norv Turner's track record has proven that he's an excellent offensive coordinator and there's no reason for the Ravens [i]not[/i] to jump on the chance to sign him as soon as the season's over, nor is there any reason for Turner to sign with any other team when the Ravens would offer both top-dollar [i]and[/i] the best collection of talent compared to other teams likely to need an OC.
[/quote]
And an offense familiar to his system and drafted to fill the roles required to run an Air Coryell. The only thing that would change was that the play caller wouldn't be using an IHOP menu. Not to mention Joe's physical gifts are similar to Rivers, which would only smooth the transition. If Norv wants to stay in the league in a coaching capacity Baltimore looks like the most viable destination.