Jason La Canfora Sees Norv Headed To Baltimore

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1325019221' post='924383']

To be fair, there were [i]a lot[/i] of issues on that '07 Dolphins team other than Cam. They had lost Trent Green, Ronnie Brown and Chris Chambers on by mid-season, had to go with Cleo Lemon and John Beck the rest of the way, and at least five key defensive players ended the year on IR.

Regardless, his time in Baltimore should be over after this season.
[/quote]

But to go from 5th to 30th in defensive rankings? Green and Lemon did as well as Harrington and Culpepper the year before. I know they were like 6-10 the year before, but still, to go from anything to 1-15 is insane. And my point is, if Cam Cameron is such an offensive guru, shouldn't he have made some impact somewhere? Anywhere? And players in all three places he's been, San Diego, Miami, and Baltimore, say he's too arrogant and acts like a know-it-all when it comes to coaching an offense. Meaning he's also very stubborn and won't adapt. Meaning he needs to go.

IDK. I really have to stop with this whole Cam Cameron stuff. The guy just frustrates me. He'll be here at least through the end of this season, and nothing I say or do will change that. Worrying about how much he's hurting this team just PO's me and does nothing for the team.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1324922542' post='923163']
"Joe Flacco's name isn't mentioned when there's a discussion of elite quarterbacks. But in the past four years, he has a 46-23 record. He is 26-5 at home. This will be his 63rd consecutive start. Only Eli Manning (117) and Philip Rivers (94) have longer streaks among quarterbacks. For his career, he's completed 61 percent of his passes, 77 touchdowns compared to 45 interceptions. He has had a couple of stinker games on the road this season and is backed with a defense that annually is in the top five. But the fact remains Flacco has taken the Ravens to the playoffs in all of his four pro seasons -- and done it in the AFC North.
Unless Philadelphia makes the playoffs, the Ravens are the only team to be in the postseason in each of the past four years."

and cam has nothing to do with that right? you know since he was there for that whole run..... lets look at this year

joe: he gonna finish about average for joe 300+ comp 3,600+ yrds 20+td playoffs.... you know
however being #5 in dropped passes (28) dont help. his sacks are down though this year(protection schemes) which is good considering how much he drops back this year. i crunched some numbers and those 28 dropped passes drops his comp average 5.3% if those catches are made he is at 62.1%, again average for joe, but with the increase of pass attempts he would be hovering around 4,000yrds or above maybe even 1 or 2 more tds. he at 12 int and if he dont throw a pic against the bangels this will be his 3rd of 4 years with 12 ints, again average for joe. but this year is different in that he already threw it 523 times and his previous most attempts was 499 in 2009 so he actually doing pretty well on the attempt to int ratio.

ray: with 40 less attempts than last year he is 163 yards from matching his career best rush yards (1,339 in 2009) he has 10 rush td which is 3 better than his previous career high (7 in 2009) he 4 receptions and 6 receiving yrds away from career highs (78/702 in 2009) he has 3 receiving td which is 2 better than his previous career high

ricky vs willis: ricky has already run the ball 2 more times than willis in the same amount of games (15) but he has 36 more yards he has one more reception (13) for 28 more yards (83)

Im just sayin all cam did (again) was help set us up to succeed but you all want to run him out of town for an opposing coach had the bright idea to pick on our rookie cb in his first start genious. you guys ever hear the expression if its not broke dont fix it? we go to the playoffs each year we win in the playoffs each year we break club and nfl records each year we are consistant. Subpar? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!
[/quote]


There's a lot of truth to what you say. For all of his faults, Cam has done some good things for our offense. But he is so inflexible to the point that he has stifled the growth of our QB. We need someone who is more flexible and innovative to take this Team to the next level. I'm not saying we won't win it all this year with Cam, but I do think we could make the road a lot smoother and become a formidable offensive power with new leadership. Norv may fit the bill for that job.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325020122' post='924404']

But to go from 5th to 30th in defensive rankings? Green and Lemon did as well as Harrington and Culpepper the year before. I know they were like 6-10 the year before, but still, to go from anything to 1-15 is insane. And my point is, if Cam Cameron is such an offensive guru, shouldn't he have made some impact somewhere? Anywhere? And players in all three places he's been, San Diego, Miami, and Baltimore, say he's too arrogant and acts like a know-it-all when it comes to coaching an offense. Meaning he's also very stubborn and won't adapt. Meaning he needs to go.

IDK. I really have to stop with this whole Cam Cameron stuff. The guy just frustrates me. He'll be here at least through the end of this season, and nothing I say or do will change that. Worrying about how much he's hurting this team just PO's me and does nothing for the team.
[/quote]


Well, I read how someone here said they met a former Raven (LJ Smith), and supposedly he echoed most of our sentiments here regarding Cam.

While the source of this info is dubious at best, I can definitely believe it if it is true.

But I'll say a few things on that --

1. I do not think that Cam is the liability that he is made out to be. I only say that because if our recievers and TE would learn how to catch a ball, or if Rice would perform better against top defenses, the results would be so much different from what they are. It wouldn't be an inconsistent offense, it would be a downright dangerous one.

2. That said, I definitely believe that we need to part ways with Cam Cameron the first chance we get. He is not a good fit for us. I think he could do great on a team like SD (ironically), but not here.

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1325023911' post='924477']


Well, I read how someone here said they met a former Raven (LJ Smith), and supposedly he echoed most of our sentiments here regarding Cam.

While the source of this info is dubious at best, I can definitely believe it if it is true.

But I'll say a few things on that --

1. I do not think that Cam is the liability that he is made out to be. I only say that because if our recievers and TE would learn how to catch a ball, or if Rice would perform better against top defenses, the results would be so much different from what they are. It wouldn't be an inconsistent offense, it would be a downright dangerous one.

2. That said, I definitely believe that we need to part ways with Cam Cameron the first chance we get. He is not a good fit for us. I think he could do great on a team like SD (ironically), but not here.
[/quote]
I am sure Phillip Rivers would not share your view on that last statement.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='bpytnjr58' timestamp='1325024201' post='924480']
I am sure Phillip Rivers would not share your view on that last statement.
[/quote]

Rivers only had one season as the starter with Cam as his OC. He regressed the next season after Cam left before exploding in '08.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1325024446' post='924482']

Rivers only had one season as the starter with Cam as his OC. He regressed the next season after Cam left before exploding in '08.
[/quote]

The difference is Rivers ALWAYS had a better offensive mind on hand, whether it was Marty or Norv, and he always had a qb coach, not this nonsense about a O-Coordinator who demands the qb coach position in spite of the fact that his quarterback likes the current qb coach, just because he's a megalomaniac.

[The Raven]

Cam would do better in san Diego with personnel that better fit the Air Coryell.

I know I sound like a broken record player, but bring on the West Coast. Boldin excels over the middle, and I'm sure Torrey's speed would be great for gettin those YACs.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325025135' post='924492']
The difference is Rivers ALWAYS had a better offensive mind on hand, whether it was Marty or Norv, and he always had a qb coach, not this nonsense about a O-Coordinator who demands the qb coach position in spite of the fact that his quarterback likes the current qb coach, just because he's a megalomaniac.
[/quote]

Norv is definitely a better offensive mind than Cam but I don't think Marty was; he focused on the defensive side of the ball throughout his coaching career.

I don't about Cam demanding the QB coach position, but I never really liked the organization not formally replacing Zorn. Yes, they've put all the onus on Cam and it will make canning him next off-season more justifiable, but him producing the offensive game-plans alone can't be a good thing.

[flynismo]

[quote name='bpytnjr58' timestamp='1325024201' post='924480']
I am sure Phillip Rivers would not share your view on that last statement.
[/quote]

Why not?

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1325026259' post='924514']

Norv is definitely a better offensive mind than Cam but I don't think Marty was; he focused on the defensive side of the ball throughout his coaching career.

[b]I don't about Cam demanding the QB coach position[/b], but I never really liked the organization not formally replacing Zorn. Yes, they've put all the onus on Cam and it will make canning him next off-season more justifiable, but him producing the offensive game-plans alone can't be a good thing.
[/quote]

You didn't read the story on why Zorn and Saunders were released? They were gone because Cam didn't like how they did things, and wanted more control over the offense. Here, read this. There are several articles out there that say Zorn and Saunders were fired because they disagreed with Cam Cameron and Cam wanted more control over Flacco's "development" (or lack thereof, apparently).

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/24772/jim-zorn-gets-fired-again

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1324998468' post='923986']

1You seem to forget that with Cam at the helm, Joe has regressed and is about to have one of the worst seasons of his career.
2You forget that until the front office yelled at Cam, Ray Rice was getting the ball less than 10 times a game.
3You forget that Cam Cameron cannot coach quarterbacks and yet he's trying to coach ours.
4You forget that [b]everywhere [/b]Cam has ever been people have had issues with his arrogance, is stubbornness, his inability to gameplan effectively and make adjustments when needed, from San Diego to Miami to here.
5You know that Flacco was actually on pace of a while there to finish with either the most or second most passing attempts in NFL history? And that the top 3-4 guys all had terrible seasons and only passed so much because they were behind all the time. Drew Bledsoe has that record.
6 Do you know what his rating was that season - 73.6. Joe has thrown the ball almost as many times as Tom Brady. He's thrown the ball 20 more times than Aaron Rodgers. What business does Joe have throwing the ball as many times as these guys, given that he has Ray Rice?
7 Why in the offseason did we say we were going to commit to the run more, yet Ray Rice will finish with fewer attempts than he had LAST SEASON? That's all on Cam Cameron.
8 IDK how you can support him when you saw what our offense was last year and the year before when he had somebody holding his leash, and you see the mess it is now that it's Cam's show all by himself.
[/quote]
1. I swear..... am I talking to myself?i mean obviously some numbers wont match up because there are soooo many new variables that take repetition and experience and learning tendency of new talent but if you read my post above you will see thats not the case but maybe in one or two categories but since he only been playing 4 years and all his numbers being so close each year its kinda moot point what do you base this off of qb rate, yards, td/int, comp% get bact to me on that

2. week/attempts 1/19 - 2/13 - 3/9 - 4/25 - 6/23 - 7/8 - 8/18 - 9/18 - 10/5 -11/20 - 12/21 - 13/29 - 14/26 - 15/10 - 16/23
so first your wrong second when did they yell at cam and third your wrong only 3 games where he got the ball less than 10 times 4 if you count 10

3. "Cameron was the quarterbacks coach for the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins"]Washington Redskins[/url] between 1994 and 1996. He is credited with guiding quarterback [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Frerotte"]Gus Frerotte[/url] to his only [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Bowl"]Pro Bowl[/url] appearance in 1997, and also played a key role in the development of Pro Bowl quarterback [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Green"]Trent Green"[/url]

4. hearsay. except for miami, but that is a different coaching position entirely so that shouldn't count. plus hes a changed man, he has humbled himself which is symbolized by his beard by his "From 2002-2006, he served as the offensive coordinator for the San Diego Chargers. In 2004, San Diego scored 446 points, third-highest in the NFL that year and the third-most in team history. Following the 2004 campaign, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated"]Sports Illustrated[/url] named Cameron its Offensive Assistant of the Year. In 2005, the Chargers averaged 26.1 points per game - good for fifth in the NFL in that category. In 2006, the Chargers offense amassed a team-record 494 points while paving the way for league MVP [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson"]LaDainian Tomlinson[/url] to break the single-season touchdown record."

5.so cam was opening it up for flacco plus giving the new receiving corps plenty of looks, lettin them all feel it out is he still on pace to have most attempts(691)? unless flacco throws it 168 times this next game i dont see this as a valid argument

6. why wouldn't he we are starting to open the o up feel him out test his thresh hold plus that of all the new receiving targets things need to gel and gelling takes time and reps we know what we got in the backfield true but we want to know what we are capable of down field

7. answer 6 plus we are using him more effectively sure he 40 under last years carries(still one game left) but he is only 47 yards from matching last year he already better in tds rush and pass we still use him a lot he just gets better quality carries average is up career long ricky on the other hand already rushed more than willis last year so i guess it evens out a lil eh. again we will see after this next game

8.year/total yrds/passing/rushing/td/1st/3rd/4th/sack/fg
2011 / 5072 / 3297 /1775 / 38 / 297 / 97 / 4 / 47 / 29 (1 game left)
2010 / 5166 / 3335 / 1831 / 40 / 303 / 82 / 4 / 27 / 26
2009 / 5619 / 3419 / 2200 / 47 / 320 / 89 / 6 / 32 / 21
2008 / 5184 / 2808 / 2376 / 42 / 300 / 95 / 7 / 34 / 28
we will see after this next game how they finish but i would say were about par for our team which is aight consideing all the new wrincles now i gotta wor but i will drudge up pre cam stats for you later so you can see what we were with a better d and rb

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325029092' post='924541']
i will drudge up pre cam stats for you later so you can see what we were with a better d and rb
[/quote]

I wouldn't bother with that when considering the most important component of all - the QB - was absolutely atrocious, and that was a different era of football anyway (weird to say that 5 years ago was a different era, but the game really has changed that much over the last few years)

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325020122' post='924404'] my point is, if Cam Cameron is such an offensive guru, shouldn't he have made some impact somewhere? Anywhere? And players in all three places he's been, San Diego, Miami, and Baltimore, say he's too arrogant and acts like a know-it-all when it comes to coaching an offense. .[/quote]From 2002-2006, he served as the offensive coordinator for the San Diego Chargers. In 2004, San Diego scored 446 points, third-highest in the NFL that year and the third-most in team history. Following the 2004 campaign, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated"]Sports Illustrated[/url] named Cameron its Offensive Assistant of the Year. In 2005, the Chargers averaged 26.1 points per game - good for fifth in the NFL in that category. In 2006, the Chargers offense amassed a team-record 494 points while paving the way for league MVP [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson"]LaDainian Tomlinson[/url] to break the single-season touchdown record."

and you know lil ol us he only helped break multiple records both club and nfl and he helped take us to the playoffs more than any other team in the last 4 years thats it

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325028529' post='924533']
You didn't read the story on why Zorn and Saunders were released? They were gone because Cam didn't like how they did things, and wanted more control over the offense. Here, read this. There are several articles out there that say Zorn and Saunders were fired because they disagreed with Cam Cameron and Cam wanted more control over Flacco's "development" (or lack thereof, apparently).

[url="http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/24772/jim-zorn-gets-fired-again"]http://espn.go.com/b...ets-fired-again[/url]
[/quote]

That article doesn't mention Cam disagreeing with how Zorn and Saunders operated though.

I heard reports in the off-season that Cam, Zorn and Saunders clashed and I read about the seven-hour meeting as well. But I never read anything specifically saying Cam wanted more control. It wouldn't surprise at all if he did though.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325029796' post='924560']
From 2002-2006, he served as the offensive coordinator for the San Diego Chargers. In 2004, San Diego scored 446 points, third-highest in the NFL that year and the third-most in team history. Following the 2004 campaign, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated"]Sports Illustrated[/url] named Cameron its Offensive Assistant of the Year. In 2005, the Chargers averaged 26.1 points per game - good for fifth in the NFL in that category. In 2006, the Chargers offense amassed a team-record 494 points while paving the way for league MVP [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson"]LaDainian Tomlinson[/url] to break the single-season touchdown record."

and you know lil ol us he only helped break multiple records both club and nfl and he helped take us to the playoffs more than any other team in the last 4 years thats it
[/quote]

Norv Turner and Marty Shottenheimer had nothing to do with that, right? Or the fact that the Chargers have a quarterbacks coach that can coach quarterbacks.

http://www.ravens24x7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76994&page=5

Please read this thread. See to what LJ Smith has to say about Cam, and specifically about Joe's relationship with Cam is. That is why Cam MUST go.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325015155' post='924307'] I just gave you some facts. Here are better ones. With Hue Jackson, Al Saunders, and Jim Zorn as his qb coaches, Flacco improved. With Cam as his qb coach, Flacco regressed. Ray Rice's rushing attempts went up his first three seasons. They went down this season, in spite of the fact that he's averaging almost half a yard a carry more. Fact - Ray Rice has had less than 10 touches 4 times this year, and we've lost 3 of those games. Who calls all offensive plays - Cam Cameron. Fact. What other facts do you want? How about this - can you tell me where Cam, by himself, has ever successfully implemented an offense? There are two seasons in his coaching career where he's had total control. This season, and 2007 in Miami. Do you remember what Miami's record was in 2007? Do you remember what their offense looked like? That season they scored 267 points in 16 games, and gave up over 400. This season, in spite of having pro bowlers everywhere and a far superior offense, we've only managed to score 354 points. If our defense was like that 2007 Miami team, we'd be under .500. Please, tell me why you support Cam Cameron so much. Show me where he's done good anywhere in his career BY HIMSELF i.e. without Norv Turner, without Marty Schottenheimer. He's controlled the offense singlehandedly twice, and you can see the results for yourself.[/quote] ray rices carrys cams past blah blah miami is a moot point different position entierly and i will tell you why. because i love and support the ravens til the season is over and i love to argue.... just ask fly

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325029974' post='924565'] Norv Turner and Marty Shottenheimer had nothing to do with that, right? Or the fact that the Chargers have a quarterbacks coach that can coach quarterbacks. http://www.ravens24x7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76994&page=5 Please read this thread. See to what LJ Smith has to say about Cam, and specifically about Joe's relationship with Cam is. That is why Cam MUST go.[/quote]
Cameron was the quarterbacks coach for the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins"]Washington Redskins[/url] between 1994 and 1996. He is credited with guiding quarterback [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Frerotte"]Gus Frerotte[/url] to his only [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Bowl"]Pro Bowl[/url] appearance in 1997, and also played a key role in the development of Pro Bowl quarterback [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Green"]Trent Green"[/url]

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1325029877' post='924561']

That article doesn't mention Cam though.

I heard reports in the off-season that Cam, Zorn and Saunders clashed and I read about the seven-hour meeting as well. But I never read anything specifically saying Cam wanted more control. It wouldn't surprise at all if he did though.
[/quote]

This is what I found:

The [url="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/baltimore-ravens"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] fired quarterbacks coach [b]Jim Zorn[/b] last night. [url="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2011/01/source_jim_zorn_fired_as_ravens_qb_coach.html"]According to the Baltimore Sun[/url], the reason for Zorn's dismissal was a lack of chemistry between Zorn and the [i]coaching staff[/i], and the lack of progress by quarterback [b][url="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34919/joe-flacco"]Joe Flacco[/url][/b] this season.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/1/28/1961079/jim-zorn-fired-by-ravens-could-he-land-in-cleveland-next

After reading it the first time, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. So last year was a lack of progress, and this year is what true progress looks like. I guess I have to check the definition of progress in the dictionary again, because I obviously don't know "progress" when I see it. Keep in mind, too, when we are talking about the offensive coaching staff, particularly the passing offense, there were three guys last year, Zorn, Saunders, and Cameron. So Zorn and Saunders got the boot, for disagreeing with the rest of the "coaching staff" = Cameron.

[Dfence4champs2052]

I don't care where he goes just leave here. Thanks for the high blood pressure Cameron.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325029796' post='924560']
From 2002-2006, he served as the offensive coordinator for the San Diego Chargers. In 2004, San Diego scored 446 points, third-highest in the NFL that year and the third-most in team history. Following the 2004 campaign, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated"]Sports Illustrated[/url] named Cameron its Offensive Assistant of the Year. In 2005, the Chargers averaged 26.1 points per game - good for fifth in the NFL in that category. In 2006, the Chargers offense amassed a team-record 494 points while paving the way for league MVP [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson"]LaDainian Tomlinson[/url] to break the single-season touchdown record."

and you know lil ol us he only helped break multiple records both club and nfl and he helped take us to the playoffs more than any other team in the last 4 years thats it
[/quote]

Okay, so we broke club records...what great offensive records did we really have to break?




I'm waiting...




Oh yeah... about that...


What NFL records has our OFFENSE broken? Enlighten me.

Okay, so he "helped us" get to the playoffs 4 years. But guess what? Every post season, why did we lose?

Lack of offense.Thats why.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325029796' post='924560']
From 2002-2006, he served as the offensive coordinator for the San Diego Chargers. In 2004, San Diego scored 446 points, third-highest in the NFL that year and the third-most in team history. Following the 2004 campaign, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated"]Sports Illustrated[/url] named Cameron its Offensive Assistant of the Year. In 2005, the Chargers averaged 26.1 points per game - good for fifth in the NFL in that category. In 2006, the Chargers offense amassed a team-record 494 points while paving the way for league MVP [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson"]LaDainian Tomlinson[/url] to break the single-season touchdown record."

and you know lil ol us he only helped break multiple records both club and nfl and he helped take us to the playoffs more than any other team in the last 4 years thats it
[/quote]

Wow...a Cam defender. Kudos to you.........extinction is imminent for your species. He's done after this year.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325030108' post='924568']
Cameron was the quarterbacks coach for the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins"]Washington Redskins[/url] between 1994 and 1996. He is credited with guiding quarterback [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Frerotte"]Gus Frerotte[/url] to his only [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Bowl"]Pro Bowl[/url] appearance in 1997, and also played a key role in the development of Pro Bowl quarterback [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Green"]Trent Green"[/url]
[/quote]

Which proves that when Cameron is not given ALL of the responsibility and there is someone checking what he is doing, he can do good things. That's never been in question, and that's not my problem with him. He has never proven, [b]by himself,[/b] that he can coach an offense or a quarterback. Norv Turner hasn't either. Nor has Marty Shottenheimer. But they were smart enough to recognize that one man can't run everything, and that's why both of them had offensive coordinators and quarterback coaches on their staffs. How many teams out there have an offensive coordinator who is also the qb coach, especially for a guy who is still developing? The only team I can think of that uses the same set up we do is New England, and that's because Bill O'Brien was already Brady's qb coach in 2009-2010 when he took over duties in 2011, and it makes sense since there was a lockout that the Patriots wouldn't add any new staff. In addition, Brady is a 10 year vet. What does a qb coach have to teach him? We knew Flacco had trouble reading certain defenses and at times getting the ball out of his hands. Why was he better last year than he is this year? Why does he keep making the same mistakes? Why aren't his flaws being fixed, why is he regressing? These years are critical in a quarterback's development, and yet we're leaving the future of our franchise in the hands of one man, and of all the men, the one guy Flacco dislikes the most? If we were going to keep somebody, why not Saunders or Zorn, the two guys [i]Flacco [/i]stood up for?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325030194' post='924571']
This is what I found:

The [url="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/baltimore-ravens"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] fired quarterbacks coach [b]Jim Zorn[/b] last night. [url="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2011/01/source_jim_zorn_fired_as_ravens_qb_coach.html"]According to the Baltimore Sun[/url], the reason for Zorn's dismissal was a lack of chemistry between Zorn and the [i]coaching staff[/i], and the lack of progress by quarterback [b][url="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34919/joe-flacco"]Joe Flacco[/url][/b] this season.

[url="http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/1/28/1961079/jim-zorn-fired-by-ravens-could-he-land-in-cleveland-next"]http://www.dawgsbyna...-cleveland-next[/url]

After reading it the first time, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. So last year was a lack of progress, and this year is what true progress looks like. I guess I have to check the definition of progress in the dictionary again, because I obviously don't know "progress" when I see it. Keep in mind, too, when we are talking about the offensive coaching staff, particularly the passing offense, there were three guys last year, Zorn, Saunders, and Cameron. So Zorn and Saunders got the boot, for disagreeing with the rest of the "coaching staff" = Cameron.
[/quote]

Well, the organization put themselves in this position. Barring a miraculous turnaround and/or Super Bowl-winning run, I doubt they'll be able to justify bringing Cam back.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1325030574' post='924582']

Wow...a Cam defender. Kudos to you.........extinction is imminent for your species. He's done after this year.
[/quote]


Gotta give it to him. Huge stones.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1325030574' post='924582']

Wow...a Cam defender. Kudos to you.........extinction is imminent for your species. He's done after this year.
[/quote]

Honestly I can't believe it. The only other people I know who defend Cam are the mindless "Flacco-bashers" that insist Cam's gameplans are always genius, but just cannot be executed properly by our "dimwitted" quarterback.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

Sorry guys I will not be posting in this thread until after the final game need final reg season stats so we can really get down to the nitty gritty on flaccos supposed regression. just chew on this flacco is the winningest qb in first 4 years of football, suck it marino. for the first time in club history we went 8-0 at home, ravens are the only team to go to playoffs each year since 2008 but cam has nothing to do with any of that right?see yall in a few days

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325031547' post='924612']

Honestly I can't believe it. The only other people I know who defend Cam are the mindless "Flacco-bashers" that insist Cam's gameplans are always genius, but just cannot be executed properly by our "dimwitted" quarterback.
[/quote]
silly lil ol me, I just like our team I see it winning like it never has before we have an consistent o finally the one i was waiting 12 years to see all these guys(cam flacco harbs) have done was impress me call me a homer or naive but until someone actually has a poor performance i dont feel we should fire someone and break up a winning formula again silly lil ol me

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325077064' post='924962']
silly lil ol me, I just like our team I see it winning like it never has before we have an consistent o finally the one i was waiting 12 years to see all these guys(cam flacco harbs) have done was impress me call me a homer or naive but until someone actually has a poor performance i dont feel we should fire someone and break up a winning formula again silly lil ol me
[/quote]

Harbs impresses me, Flacco impresses me. Cam does not. I only need to look at what he's done with Joe. He is Joe's qb coach, and therefore much of Joe's development, or lack thereof, is laid directly at Cam Cameron's feet. And I still see him making the same mistakes. I see him willing to take more stupid risks than he has in the past (like the INT in San Diego where he "believed he could get it passed the guy"). Last year I really felt like Joe emphasized ball security and it paid off big-time. I don't see the same this year.

Regarding Cam's duties as OC, can you explain to me why Ray Rice only got the ball 8 times in Jacksonville? I'm still waiting to here from Cam Cameron why if Jacksonville was a top passing defense, a bottom tier run defense, and we only needed 2 TDs to win that game, why did Ray Rice have so few carries? My answer is that Cam is unimaginative and whenever we get the slightest bit behind, he abandons the run entirely in favor of the pass. Now I understand the adage "pass to score, run to win" but it was a poorly called gameplan. And that one loss, yes, was critical - it is the difference between 12-3 and 11-4. Now this game against Cinci is deadly important. Win and we're the second seed, lose and we drop to 5th or 6th and have to go on the road again, where we've been horrible this year. If we'd won just one more game, in particular that poorly called Jacksonville game, we'd be good. And what did Cam do the next week in Seattle? The same thing, totally abandoned the pass. So if we have to go on the road, you can look at that one game, and see where Cam let us down. He's done it a bunch of times, like the New England game last year that he went conservative on and allowed New England to erase a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter. They won the game. Now instead of 13-3, we're 12-4, have to go on the road to Pittsburgh - and we lose. We might have to do it again if we lose in Cinci. Every year there are one or two very poorly called games that have cost us home field advantage, and since we seem so fond of running into the Steelers in the playoffs I'd say it's quite significant.

Bottom line: several former Ravens have said Joe Flacco dislikes and distrusts Cam Cameron as do many players on the offense. Idk about you, but I'd rather have an OC that was respected and trusted by the players he's supposed to coach.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1325030574' post='924582']

Wow...a Cam defender. Kudos to you.........extinction is imminent for your species. He's done after this year.[/quote]

haha, classic

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325077064' post='924962']

silly lil ol me, I just like our team I see it winning like it never has before we have an consistent o finally the one i was waiting 12 years to see all these guys(cam flacco harbs) have done was impress me call me a homer or naive but until someone actually has a poor performance i dont feel we should fire someone and break up a winning formula again silly lil ol me
[/quote]
Im sorry, but we do not have a consistent offense. You make like Cam, and that's fine. But that's a very poor choice of words when referring to this offense. They are anything but consistent.