Jason La Canfora Sees Norv Headed To Baltimore

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='EdPick6RiverStix' timestamp='1324890335' post='922969']
i think we need a coach that employs the west coast offense as far as passing game is concerned. the air coryell relies on big tall recievers in which we dont have. vjax n floyd fit well in that system because they can win jump balls even when they are covered...n they can attack the ball better. i can see our recievers and te becoming more of a packers or saints offense in the future. with a variety of timing routes and an uptempo pace. i like what were doing in the run game, the zone stretch, counters n powers are good to go with the pa game. so yea im not down with the norv turner move. lets get the qb coach from gb or sumtin. kubiak, if he gets fired is a good option as well since i our personnel can match that scheme that he runs
[/quote]

As much as the Texans are melting and are unlikely to go far in the playoffs, I don't see Kubiak being fired. Don't forget that they are missing their QB, their best defensive player and have been without one of the best receivers in the game for most of the season. I think that Kubiak will definitely be allowed next year to see what he can do with those players back healthy.

[The Raven]

[quote name='EdPick6RiverStix' timestamp='1324890335' post='922969']
[b]i think we need a coach that employs the west coast offense as far as passing game is concerned. the air coryell relies on big tall recievers in which we dont have[/b]. vjax n floyd fit well in that system because they can win jump balls even when they are covered...n they can attack the ball better. i can see our recievers and te becoming more of a packers or saints offense in the future. with a variety of timing routes and an uptempo pace. i like what were doing in the run game, the zone stretch, counters n powers are good to go with the pa game. so yea im not down with the norv turner move. lets get the qb coach from gb or sumtin. kubiak, if he gets fired is a good option as well since i our personnel can match that scheme that he runs
[/quote]

Incorrect. The original Air Coryell offense featured WRs that were fast with good hands rather than tall and big WRs. Charlie Joiner was only 5-11. Wes Chandler was 6-0. John Jefferson was 6-1. Hardly the big and tall WRs you suggest are necesary to run the offense.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324911677' post='923019']

Incorrect. The original Air Coryell offense featured WRs that were fast with good hands rather than tall and big WRs. Charlie Joiner was only 5-11. Wes Chandler was 6-0. John Jefferson was 6-1. Hardly the big and tall WRs you suggest are necesary to run the offense.
[/quote]

True. I'm not sure why people look at SD and think that's the team you need to be successful in this system. It's not the physical build of the receivers but rather that of the QB (needs to be able to make the all the downfield throws)--which we have--and an offensive mind who can tailor the scheme to the players at hand. It's not that our receivers are inadequate for the Air Coryell (a big #1 receiver would be nice, but what system wouldn't benefit from a player like that?)... it's the maestro conducting the symphony that's subpar.

[RavenDefense]

Spark This Convo Up !!!!!!!!!! If We Dont Make It To The SuperBowl This Year , Cam's Gone !!!! BRING NORV IN !

[Mahatma_Sloth]

sigh.... you guys and your hate. cam aint goin nowhere after we win the bowl this year. sorry to disappoint y'all

[The Raven]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1324920085' post='923111']
sigh.... you guys and your hate. cam aint goin nowhere after we win the bowl this year. sorry to disappoint y'all
[/quote]

Cam will be gone. If we released Dilfer after the SB win, why not fire Cam?

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1324916971' post='923085']

True. I'm not sure why people look at SD and think that's the team you need to be successful in this system. It's not the physical build of the receivers but rather that of the QB (needs to be able to make the all the downfield throws)--which we have--and an offensive mind who can tailor the scheme to the players at hand. It's not that our receivers are inadequate for the Air Coryell (a big #1 receiver would be nice, but what system wouldn't benefit from a player like that?)... it's the maestro conducting the symphony that's subpar.
[/quote]
"Joe Flacco's name isn't mentioned when there's a discussion of elite quarterbacks. But in the past four years, he has a 46-23 record. He is 26-5 at home. This will be his 63rd consecutive start. Only Eli Manning (117) and Philip Rivers (94) have longer streaks among quarterbacks. For his career, he's completed 61 percent of his passes, 77 touchdowns compared to 45 interceptions. He has had a couple of stinker games on the road this season and is backed with a defense that annually is in the top five. But the fact remains Flacco has taken the Ravens to the playoffs in all of his four pro seasons -- and done it in the AFC North.
Unless Philadelphia makes the playoffs, the Ravens are the only team to be in the postseason in each of the past four years."

and cam has nothing to do with that right? you know since he was there for that whole run..... lets look at this year

joe: he gonna finish about average for joe 300+ comp 3,600+ yrds 20+td playoffs.... you know
however being #5 in dropped passes (28) dont help. his sacks are down though this year(protection schemes) which is good considering how much he drops back this year. i crunched some numbers and those 28 dropped passes drops his comp average 5.3% if those catches are made he is at 62.1%, again average for joe, but with the increase of pass attempts he would be hovering around 4,000yrds or above maybe even 1 or 2 more tds. he at 12 int and if he dont throw a pic against the bangels this will be his 3rd of 4 years with 12 ints, again average for joe. but this year is different in that he already threw it 523 times and his previous most attempts was 499 in 2009 so he actually doing pretty well on the attempt to int ratio.

ray: with 40 less attempts than last year he is 163 yards from matching his career best rush yards (1,339 in 2009) he has 10 rush td which is 3 better than his previous career high (7 in 2009) he 4 receptions and 6 receiving yrds away from career highs (78/702 in 2009) he has 3 receiving td which is 2 better than his previous career high

ricky vs willis: ricky has already run the ball 2 more times than willis in the same amount of games (15) but he has 36 more yards he has one more reception (13) for 28 more yards (83)

Im just sayin all cam did (again) was help set us up to succeed but you all want to run him out of town for an opposing coach had the bright idea to pick on our rookie cb in his first start genious. you guys ever hear the expression if its not broke dont fix it? we go to the playoffs each year we win in the playoffs each year we break club and nfl records each year we are consistant. Subpar? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1324916971' post='923085']

True. I'm not sure why people look at SD and think that's the team you need to be successful in this system. It's not the physical build of the receivers but rather that of the QB (needs to be able to make the all the downfield throws)--which we have--and an offensive mind who can tailor the scheme to the players at hand. It's not that our receivers are inadequate for the Air Coryell (a big #1 receiver would be nice, but what system wouldn't benefit from a player like that?)... it's the maestro conducting the symphony that's subpar.
[/quote]

Maybe it's because the quarterback throwing to them, Dan Fouts, threw only 12 more touchdowns in his career than interceptions, and the fact that every time he got into the playoffs against a team that was able to shut down Chuck Muncie and the running game, Fouts threw almost as many passes to the other team as he did to his own. Look at Fouts' postseason record. There are at least two games there where he threw 5 interceptions, costing his team the game. Air Coryell brings lots of yards, but also lots of costly ints, like you see with Rivers this year. Other systems can bring numbers while emphasizing ball security, which is what a team with a great defense should be concerned with more than scoring lots of points.

My problem with the system is that you have to have A + B + C + D, they all have to be there, and they all have to be working. If teams stuff the run, the pass suffers. If teams cover the pass, the run suffers. If you have a poor offensive line like we do, the deep routes which take time to complete won't be as effective because of all the pressure on the quarterback. And if one receiver goes down, the offense is crippled - look at how Rivers did without Vincent Jackson. Now look at how guys like Brady and Manning and Rodgers lose key pieces and keep on going.

[bpytnjr58]

Norv's playcalling in S.D. was an audition for the OC job in Balt....face it.. "Cam Ball" lets teams hang around and does not seal the deal!

[True]

I'm glad the Lions blew them out and put to rest the talks of keeping Norv after the Chargers 3 game winning streak. Hopefully when he's fired he's on the next flight to Baltimore..

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1324922542' post='923163']
Subpar? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!
[/quote]

The day that I sat in the stands in Seattle and watched Cameron give Ray Rice 5 carries and abandoned the run in the 1st quarter was the day I realized he was hopeless and either demented, retarded or a bad OC. You can decide which one. The offense has inconsistently gone away and hid too many times this year..

I don't know if I want Norv Turner or not. But at this point, I think if we get a Ravens' Magic 8-ball on the sideline to replace Cameron while we look for a new OC, we'd be right about where we are now. (Said facetiously .... kind of)

[Rinbee]

[quote name='Twistidfunk' timestamp='1324479809' post='917269']
I doubt it happens. Norv will be expensive and if he's fired I am sure he could land a head coach job.
[/quote]

And if not this year, then next. So, do we rent an OC for a year?

[Kevin Mullins]

I honestly think the O.C. debate starts and ends in college. We need to get someone from an explosive college offense (Oregon or USC) that is young, creative, and willing to adapt. I think that variety paired with some youth would do us wonders.

I would absolutely kill to see us turn into the New Orleans Saints. We have a great number one back instead of 3 good ones, but we have endless talent at WR that all bring something different to the table.

[1/28/01]

I hate to say this, but with yet another playoff appearance and POSSIBLY more, Cam will stay. Not my preference or anything, just what I see happening.

[The Raven]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1324949228' post='923597']
I hate to say this, but with yet another playoff appearance and POSSIBLY more, Cam will stay. Not my preference or anything, just what I see happening.
[/quote]

Well, we cut Dilfer after we won the SB, anythings possible.

I want Norv Turner or Wilbert Montgomery. We seem to try to stay in-house for coaching solutions, so I think Wilbert has a good chance.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1324922542' post='923163']
"Joe Flacco's name isn't mentioned when there's a discussion of elite quarterbacks. But in the past four years, he has a 46-23 record. He is 26-5 at home. This will be his 63rd consecutive start. Only Eli Manning (117) and Philip Rivers (94) have longer streaks among quarterbacks. For his career, he's completed 61 percent of his passes, 77 touchdowns compared to 45 interceptions. He has had a couple of stinker games on the road this season and is backed with a defense that annually is in the top five. But the fact remains Flacco has taken the Ravens to the playoffs in all of his four pro seasons -- and done it in the AFC North.
Unless Philadelphia makes the playoffs, the Ravens are the only team to be in the postseason in each of the past four years."

and cam has nothing to do with that right? you know since he was there for that whole run..... lets look at this year

joe: he gonna finish about average for joe 300+ comp 3,600+ yrds 20+td playoffs.... you know
however being #5 in dropped passes (28) dont help. his sacks are down though this year(protection schemes) which is good considering how much he drops back this year. i crunched some numbers and those 28 dropped passes drops his comp average 5.3% if those catches are made he is at 62.1%, again average for joe, but with the increase of pass attempts he would be hovering around 4,000yrds or above maybe even 1 or 2 more tds. he at 12 int and if he dont throw a pic against the bangels this will be his 3rd of 4 years with 12 ints, again average for joe. but this year is different in that he already threw it 523 times and his previous most attempts was 499 in 2009 so he actually doing pretty well on the attempt to int ratio.

ray: with 40 less attempts than last year he is 163 yards from matching his career best rush yards (1,339 in 2009) he has 10 rush td which is 3 better than his previous career high (7 in 2009) he 4 receptions and 6 receiving yrds away from career highs (78/702 in 2009) he has 3 receiving td which is 2 better than his previous career high

ricky vs willis: ricky has already run the ball 2 more times than willis in the same amount of games (15) but he has 36 more yards he has one more reception (13) for 28 more yards (83)

Im just sayin all cam did (again) was help set us up to succeed but you all want to run him out of town for an opposing coach had the bright idea to pick on our rookie cb in his first start genious. you guys ever hear the expression if its not broke dont fix it? we go to the playoffs each year we win in the playoffs each year we break club and nfl records each year we are consistant. Subpar? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!
[/quote]
Good Post, and I agree with pretty much everything you said. I have defended Cam at times this year and I have criticized him at times, and I think in both cases it's fair to do so. Cam has called some great games this season, but at times his play-calling is mind-boggling. I cant help but think a lot of the inconsistency we have seen from Joe stems directly from Cam. We really cant afford to move forward with an OC that is inconsistent.

Norv Turner is one of the most respected offensive minds in football. He has an incredible track record as an OC and play-caller. We all saw what he did against our Defense in SD. I'm not sure if we will fire Cam or not, but if he does go Norv would be the #1 guy I would want to replace him.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324942507' post='923486']

The day that I sat in the stands in Seattle and watched Cameron give Ray Rice 5 carries and abandoned the run in the 1st quarter was the day I realized he was hopeless and either demented, retarded or a bad OC. You can decide which one. The offense has inconsistently gone away and hid too many times this year..

I don't know if I want Norv Turner or not. But at this point, I think if we get a Ravens' Magic 8-ball on the sideline to replace Cameron while we look for a new OC, we'd be right about where we are now. (Said facetiously .... kind of)
[/quote]
sigh theres just no getting through to some ppl. hey did you know we're going to the playoffs this year, for the fourth time! you know how many times we went in the 12 years before 2008(cam harbs flacco)? FOUR...... just sayin

[757RavensFan]

Well they're saying Chucky is probably going to the Rams! So Norv, is probably sweating it out right now.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1324964601' post='923822']
Good Post, and I agree with pretty much everything you said. I have defended Cam at times this year and I have criticized him at times, and I think in both cases it's fair to do so. Cam has called some great games this season, but at times his play-calling is mind-boggling. I cant help but think a lot of the inconsistency we have seen from Joe stems directly from Cam. We really cant afford to move forward with an OC that is inconsistent.

Norv Turner is one of the most respected offensive minds in football. He has an incredible track record as an OC and play-caller. We all saw what he did against our Defense in SD. I'm not sure if we will fire Cam or not, but if he does go Norv would be the #1 guy I would want to replace him.
[/quote]
ALL ocs have boggle games.... to error is human.... the inconsistency can stem from may factors. flip your mental man we are doing f ing awesome for the adversity we have faced(no off-season, whole new receiving cast[chemistry, learn O], last minute line changes/injuries[chemistry], brand new backfield -rr[chemistry, learn O] ) dude all the problems we faced were about repetition and experience and we are still shaking out the kinks these problems are like a virus unseen but vary disruptive they lead to things like being #5 in dropped passes

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1324971611' post='923878']
sigh theres just no getting through to some ppl. hey did you know we're going to the playoffs this year, for the fourth time! you know how many times we went in the 12 years before 2008(cam harbs flacco)? FOUR...... just sayin
[/quote]
For a team like the Ravens, who are stacked with so much talent, just getting to Festivus isn't enough. We can't be content with just getting there.... the attitude of this team, along with its fanbase, should be Festivus Maxiums or bust.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1324972117' post='923881']
Well they're saying Chucky is probably going to the Rams! So Norv, is probably sweating it out right now.
[/quote]
Not to be stupid... but who is Chucky?

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1324971611' post='923878']
[b]sigh theres just no getting through to some ppl.[/b] hey did you know we're going to the playoffs this year, for the fourth time! you know how many times we went in the 12 years before 2008(cam harbs flacco)? FOUR...... just sayin
[/quote]

And I could say the same thing. Difference is, I am just fine with you having a differing opinion. You, on the other hand, seem to think that your opinion is gospel and the rest of us must have head injuries not to see how right you are.

Believe what you want, that's your right. Just ask yourself, how'd we leave each of those 3 post-seasons? Were we beaten into submission by better teams or did the offense go away and hide.

[757RavensFan]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1324978153' post='923894']

Not to be stupid... but who is Chucky?
[/quote]

John Gruden

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1324922542' post='923163']
"Joe Flacco's name isn't mentioned when there's a discussion of elite quarterbacks. But in the past four years, he has a 46-23 record. He is 26-5 at home. This will be his 63rd consecutive start. Only Eli Manning (117) and Philip Rivers (94) have longer streaks among quarterbacks. For his career, he's completed 61 percent of his passes, 77 touchdowns compared to 45 interceptions. He has had a couple of stinker games on the road this season and is backed with a defense that annually is in the top five. But the fact remains Flacco has taken the Ravens to the playoffs in all of his four pro seasons -- and done it in the AFC North.
Unless Philadelphia makes the playoffs, the Ravens are the only team to be in the postseason in each of the past four years."

and cam has nothing to do with that right? you know since he was there for that whole run..... lets look at this year

joe: he gonna finish about average for joe 300+ comp 3,600+ yrds 20+td playoffs.... you know
however being #5 in dropped passes (28) dont help. his sacks are down though this year(protection schemes) which is good considering how much he drops back this year. i crunched some numbers and those 28 dropped passes drops his comp average 5.3% if those catches are made he is at 62.1%, again average for joe, but with the increase of pass attempts he would be hovering around 4,000yrds or above maybe even 1 or 2 more tds. he at 12 int and if he dont throw a pic against the bangels this will be his 3rd of 4 years with 12 ints, again average for joe. but this year is different in that he already threw it 523 times and his previous most attempts was 499 in 2009 so he actually doing pretty well on the attempt to int ratio.

ray: with 40 less attempts than last year he is 163 yards from matching his career best rush yards (1,339 in 2009) he has 10 rush td which is 3 better than his previous career high (7 in 2009) he 4 receptions and 6 receiving yrds away from career highs (78/702 in 2009) he has 3 receiving td which is 2 better than his previous career high

ricky vs willis: ricky has already run the ball 2 more times than willis in the same amount of games (15) but he has 36 more yards he has one more reception (13) for 28 more yards (83)

Im just sayin all cam did (again) was help set us up to succeed but you all want to run him out of town for an opposing coach had the bright idea to pick on our rookie cb in his first start genious. you guys ever hear the expression if its not broke dont fix it? we go to the playoffs each year we win in the playoffs each year we break club and nfl records each year we are consistant. Subpar? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!
[/quote]

You seem to forget that with Cam at the helm, Joe has regressed and is about to have one of the worst seasons of his career. You forget that until the front office yelled at Cam, Ray Rice was getting the ball less than 10 times a game. You forget that Cam Cameron cannot coach quarterbacks and yet he's trying to coach ours (if you want my proof of this, I can give it to you, but I've posted it here about 5 times and it's rather long). You forget that [b]everywhere [/b]Cam has ever been people have had issues with his arrogance, is stubbornness, his inability to gameplan effectively and make adjustments when needed, from San Diego to Miami to here. You know that Flacco was actually on pace of a while there to finish with either the most or second most passing attempts in NFL history? And that the top 3-4 guys all had terrible seasons and only passed so much because they were behind all the time. Drew Bledsoe has that record. Do you know what his rating was that season - 73.6. Joe has thrown the ball almost as many times as Tom Brady. He's thrown the ball 20 more times than Aaron Rodgers. What business does Joe have throwing the ball as many times as these guys, given that he has Ray Rice? Why in the offseason did we say we were going to commit to the run more, yet Ray Rice will finish with fewer attempts than he had LAST SEASON? That's all on Cam Cameron. IDK how you can support him when you saw what our offense was last year and the year before when he had somebody holding his leash, and you see the mess it is now that it's Cam's show all by himself.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1324978088' post='923893']
For a team like the Ravens, who are stacked with so much talent, just getting to Festivus isn't enough. We can't be content with just getting there.... the attitude of this team, along with its fanbase, should be Festivus Maxiums or bust.
[/quote]
Every team is stacked with talent, its the NFL! And we gotta get to festivus to get to maximus and that truly should be the attitude of the players one game at a time its foolish to look at the end before you get there so long as we keep giving ourselves a shot every year we are bound to win the bowl but it is football. "the ball is not round" football is oune of the most chaotic and unpredictable sports there is you can say we should this and we should that til your blue in the face that doesnt mean its gonna happen that way on "any given sunday"

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324981426' post='923898']

And I could say the same thing. Difference is, I am just fine with you having a differing opinion. You, on the other hand, seem to think that your opinion is gospel and the rest of us must have head injuries not to see how right you are.

Believe what you want, that's your right. Just ask yourself, how'd we leave each of those 3 post-seasons? Were we beaten into submission by better teams or did the offense go away and hide.
[/quote]
it is gospel compared to the overtly opinionated replies i get. try proving your points with,you know, facts. I dont care about your treasonous feelings and opinions once someone comes with some facts to counter mine we can have a civil conversation. till then its all hearsay to me. as far as your post season comment, neither. we left each post season with a win one with 2 wins and usually we smash ppl in those wins like the pats our total scoring in our post wins is 103-40 those aren't the numbers of a hiding offense. quit acting like we are one and done like the falcons every post appearance. the simple fact of the matter is that 10 teams go home from the playoffs every year if we keep giving ourselves chances we will strike gold.... just ask peyton or elway

i know you and all the complainers on these forums want yours right now, but your gonna have to be patient and wait like good lil boys its just the way of the world. now work on some facts

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325014788' post='924303']
Every team is stacked with talent, its the NFL! And we gotta get to festivus to get to maximus and that truly should be the attitude of the players one game at a time its foolish to look at the end before you get there so long as we keep giving ourselves a shot every year we are bound to win the bowl but it is football. "the ball is not round" football is oune of the most chaotic and unpredictable sports there is you can say we should this and we should that til your blue in the face that doesnt mean its gonna happen that way on "any given sunday"


it is gospel compared to the overtly opinionated replies i get. try proving your points with,you know, facts. I dont care about your treasonous feelings and opinions once someone comes with some facts to counter mine we can have a civil conversation. till then its all hearsay to me. as far as your post season comment, neither. we left each post season with a win one with 2 wins and usually we smash ppl in those wins like the pats our total scoring in our post wins is 103-40 those aren't the numbers of a hiding offense. quit acting like we are one and done like the falcons every post appearance. the simple fact of the matter is that 10 teams go home from the playoffs every year if we keep giving ourselves chances we will strike gold.... just ask peyton or elway

i know you and all the complainers on these forums want yours right now, but your gonna have to be patient and wait like good lil boys its just the way of the world. now work on some facts
[/quote]

I just gave you some facts. Here are better ones. With Hue Jackson, Al Saunders, and Jim Zorn as his qb coaches, Flacco improved. With Cam as his qb coach, Flacco regressed. Ray Rice's rushing attempts went up his first three seasons. They went down this season, in spite of the fact that he's averaging almost half a yard a carry more. Fact - Ray Rice has had less than 10 touches 4 times this year, and we've lost 3 of those games. Who calls all offensive plays - Cam Cameron. Fact. What other facts do you want?

How about this - can you tell me where Cam, by himself, has ever successfully implemented an offense? There are two seasons in his coaching career where he's had total control. This season, and 2007 in Miami. Do you remember what Miami's record was in 2007? Do you remember what their offense looked like? That season they scored 267 points in 16 games, and gave up over 400. This season, in spite of having pro bowlers everywhere and a far superior offense, we've only managed to score 354 points. If our defense was like that 2007 Miami team, we'd be under .500.

Please, tell me why you support Cam Cameron so much. Show me where he's done good anywhere in his career BY HIMSELF i.e. without Norv Turner, without Marty Schottenheimer. He's controlled the offense singlehandedly twice, and you can see the results for yourself.

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' timestamp='1325014788' post='924303']
Every team is stacked with talent, its the NFL! And we gotta get to festivus to get to maximus and that truly should be the attitude of the players one game at a time its foolish to look at the end before you get there so long as we keep giving ourselves a shot every year we are bound to win the bowl but it is football. "the ball is not round" football is oune of the most chaotic and unpredictable sports there is you can say we should this and we should that til your blue in the face that doesnt mean its gonna happen that way on "any given sunday"


it is gospel compared to the overtly opinionated replies i get. try proving your points with,you know, facts. I dont care about your treasonous feelings and opinions once someone comes with some facts to counter mine we can have a civil conversation. till then its all hearsay to me. as far as your post season comment, neither. we left each post season with a win one with 2 wins and usually we smash ppl in those wins like the pats our total scoring in our post wins is 103-40 those aren't the numbers of a hiding offense. quit acting like we are one and done like the falcons every post appearance. the simple fact of the matter is that 10 teams go home from the playoffs every year if we keep giving ourselves chances we will strike gold.... just ask peyton or elway

i know you and all the complainers on these forums want yours right now, but your gonna have to be patient and wait like good lil boys its just the way of the world. now work on some facts
[/quote]

That's right, you go right ahead and keep lumping everyone together. You're problem is, you aren't even sure what you're arguing anymore. The question is a simple one. "How have we lost in the playoffs?" That question ties in directly with criticism of Cameron and perfectly with the question many of us have asked ALL YEAR LONG. Why is this offense so inconsistent? Why is it so Jekyll and Hyde? Not only week to week, but within the same game. It is something that has plagued them repeatedly.

This isn't something new. This isn't something hidden. All you need do is look at the Playoff loss last year against Pittsburgh. That game is the perfect example. And it has played out throughout the Cameron era.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325015155' post='924307']

I just gave you some facts. Here are better ones. With Hue Jackson, Al Saunders, and Jim Zorn as his qb coaches, Flacco improved. [b]With Cam as his qb coach, Flacco regressed. [/b]

[/quote]


What are you basing that on? Hopefully not stats. Flacco to me looks like he has improved in certain aspects while not progressing in others; but I certainly dont feel like he has regressed.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1325015155' post='924307']

I just gave you some facts. Here are better ones. With Hue Jackson, Al Saunders, and Jim Zorn as his qb coaches, Flacco improved. With Cam as his qb coach, Flacco regressed. Ray Rice's rushing attempts went up his first three seasons. They went down this season, in spite of the fact that he's averaging almost half a yard a carry more. Fact - Ray Rice has had less than 10 touches 4 times this year, and we've lost 3 of those games. Who calls all offensive plays - Cam Cameron. Fact. What other facts do you want?

[b]How about this - can you tell me where Cam, by himself, has ever successfully implemented an offense? There are two seasons in his coaching career where he's had total control. This season, and 2007 in Miami. Do you remember what Miami's record was in 2007? Do you remember what their offense looked like? That season they scored 267 points in 16 games, and gave up over 400. This season, in spite of having pro bowlers everywhere and a far superior offense, we've only managed to score 354 points. If our defense was like that 2007 Miami team, we'd be under .500.[/b]

Please, tell me why you support Cam Cameron so much. Show me where he's done good anywhere in his career BY HIMSELF i.e. without Norv Turner, without Marty Schottenheimer. He's controlled the offense singlehandedly twice, and you can see the results for yourself.
[/quote]

To be fair, there were [i]a lot[/i] of issues on that '07 Dolphins team other than Cam. They had lost Trent Green, Ronnie Brown and Chris Chambers on by mid-season, had to go with Cleo Lemon and John Beck the rest of the way, and at least five key defensive players ended the year on IR.

Regardless, his time in Baltimore should be over after this season.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1325019082' post='924379']


What are you basing that on? Hopefully not stats. Flacco to me looks like he has improved in certain aspects while not progressing in others; but I certainly dont feel like he has regressed.
[/quote]

I've seen improvement in areas like his footwork and some recognition of the defense, but he's throwing more picks, fumbling a lot more, and the area that really concerns me is he seems to be making riskier throws that last year he would know not to make. I'm not sure what that's a product of, but to me he's not playing as well this year as he was at the end of last year. So I'd call that regression. And I think it's in large part because he was able to talk through things with Jim Zorn and Al Saunders, while Cam tells him what to do and that's that.

What I really don't like is that I think Joe at times last year looked excited, and was always on the sidelines discussing things with Jim Zorn. This year, nothing. He doesn't talk to Cam about anything, so what could he be learning from Cam?

And most concerning of all, Joe is so up and down this year. I expected it early, but then I thought it would level off. It hasn't. He's still streaky, and I feel as though he isn't nearly the same quarterback that led us to the playoffs last year. Again, the playoffs are a whole new ballgame and Eli Manning proved there can be a huge disparity between regular season and post season performance, but I trusted last year's Joe Flacco to lead us all the way and he nearly did. I just don't have that same trust this year. I feel like he could have an absolutely brilliant performance, then follow it up with a completely abysmal one.

Maybe at the end of the day I'm just seeing things because I despise Cam Cameron so much and want him to go away and never come back to Baltimore. But I really think he's hurt Joe's development this year.