Thing I've Noticed About Flacco

[blazeon32]

[quote name='Trilogique' timestamp='1324398169' post='916222']
I couldn't agree more. That's how I view this franchise. Defense makes stops while our offense slowly gathers points. We are not the kind of team who can just throw it 24/7 and win by 30 points. Once our defense left our offense hanging the game was over.
[/quote]
I agree 100% with this. We are not a high scoring quick strike team. We sustain drives and score points, rather it be a field goal or touchdown. We could've scored more against both the Colts and Cleveland if we wanted to, but we chose to run out the clock. The offense wasn't good against San Diego, they get a D from me, but the defense was horrible, they get an F. Ray Lewis looked really bad as did our corners and just about everybody else on defense.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324422612' post='916812']


That moniker was given to them based on one person (backup QB at that) making a comment in the off-season. How many times does it need to be said? You can't buy a team, you can only buy players. They haven't been playing as a team and they haven't been playing up to their on-paper potential. Again, if you think in equal circumstances that Joe Flacco is the equal of Michael Vick, I don't even know what to say.
[/quote]

Vick's career stats
1380/2467 17,284 yds 55.9 completion percentage 106 TDs, 71 INTs 44 Fumbles 80.2 QB rating
That's for 10 years worth of NFL time. I couldn't find if that included his "time away" or not. But, let's say it does and it is in actuality only 7 years. (I believe he was gone for 3 years, I could be mistaken).

Flacco's career stats

1164/1915 13,554 yds 60.8 completion percentage 74 TDs 45 INT 28 Fumbles 85.8 QB rating

So , if you think Vick is better than Flacco, it is I who don't know what to say.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='TXRaven' timestamp='1324393796' post='916127']
We do take shots down the field. Alot of that can be attributed to our recievers not getting separation and our Oline having an off night. We were not able to take shots down the field.
[/quote]

What are you talking about, no one watching this game on TV can tell whether our receivers are getting separation; so unless you also get a copy of the game film you have absolutely no idea what our receivers are doing down field so stop assuming they can't get separation, you and everyone else have no idea what the coverage is like down field. In addition they were playing zone most the game so "separation" is a non factor, and only really applies in man defense.

The offensive line played fine, Joe had plenty of time to throw the vast majority of the time he dropped back during the San Diego game, and they did a great job run blocking. So unless you think bad offensive line play is allowing 4-6 seconds on most throws in a game, ours did fine.

Joe has no pocket presence, and he leads the league in fumbles, so either Joe covers his fingers in butter before every game, or he is indecisive, insecure, and HOLDS ON TO THE BALL WAY TO LONG.

Stop blaming everyone else but the QB.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1324424028' post='916860']

What are you talking about, no one watching this game on TV can tell whether our receivers are getting separation; so unless you also get a copy of the game film you have absolutely no idea what our receivers are doing down field so stop assuming they can't get separation, you and everyone else have no idea what the coverage is like down field.

The offensive line played fine, Joe had plenty of time to throw the vast majority of the time he dropped back during the San Diego game, and they did a great job run blocking. So unless you think bad offensive line play is allowing 4-6 seconds on most throws in a game, ours did fine.

Joe has no pocket presence, and he leads the league in fumbles, so either Joe covers his fingers in butter before every game, or he is indecisive, insecure, and HOLDS ON TO THE BALL WAY TO LONG.

Stop blaming everyone else but the QB.
[/quote]

yeah I was really ticked that he missed all those tackles, let SD run up and down the field at will, score on every drive and not once put pressure on Rivers....oh wait....

[Florida Ravens Fan]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1324424028' post='916860']


What are you talking about, no one watching this game on TV can tell whether our receivers are getting separation; so unless you also get a copy of the game film you have absolutely no idea what our receivers are doing down field so stop assuming they can't get separation, you and everyone else have no idea what the coverage is like down field.

The offensive line played fine, Joe had plenty of time to throw the vast majority of the time he dropped back during the San Diego game, and they did a great job run blocking. So unless you think bad offensive line play is allowing 4-6 seconds on most throws in a game, ours did fine.

Joe has no pocket presence, and he leads the league in fumbles, so either Joe covers his fingers in butter before every game, or he is indecisive, insecure, and HOLDS ON TO THE BALL WAY TO LONG.

Stop blaming everyone else but the QB.
[/quote]

Even the commentators were pointing out that the receivers couldnt get seperation, heck even Haurbaugh said Flacco had nothing. I do admit Flacc has a problem fumbling, his pocket awareness has improved alot simce last yr.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1324410854' post='916569']

Not entirely. Rice was lighting it up on the ground. No question. At all. Also, when your down 17-7 in the second quarter, you still have time to run the football. But no, like the fool he is, Cam gave up on the run game.

To your point about the offensive line, I'm gonna blame it all on our tackles. This may have been[b] McKinnie's worst game as a Raven[/b].
[/quote]

I wouldnt say worse but its up there, i cant remember the game but he really struggled. Heck it might have been the Titans or Jags, not sure.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1324424301' post='916866']
Even the commentators were pointing out that the receivers couldnt get seperation, heck even Haurbaugh said Flacco had nothing. I do admit Flacc has a problem fumbling, his pocket awareness has improved alot simce last yr.
[/quote]

Chris Collinsworth also said that Joe is as mobile as any QB in the NFL today. So that must be true too.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1324424281' post='916865']

yeah I was really ticked that he missed all those tackles, let SD run up and down the field at will, score on every drive and not once put pressure on Rivers....oh wait....
[/quote]

This game was by no means on Joe Flacco, bad special teams, and bad defense were just as much contributing factors to our loss as bad Qb play; however, this topic is about Joe.So stop being salty if people aren't saying nice things about your golden boy.

[EternalRavensDefense]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1324424028' post='916860']

What are you talking about, no one watching this game on TV can tell whether our receivers are getting separation; so unless you also get a copy of the game film you have absolutely no idea what our receivers are doing down field so stop assuming they can't get separation, you and everyone else have no idea what the coverage is like down field. In addition they were playing zone most the game so "separation" is a non factor, and only really applies in man defense.

The offensive line played fine, Joe had plenty of time to throw the vast majority of the time he dropped back during the San Diego game, and they did a great job run blocking. So unless you think bad offensive line play is allowing 4-6 seconds on most throws in a game, ours did fine.

Joe has no pocket presence, and he leads the league in fumbles, so either Joe covers his fingers in butter before every game, or he is indecisive, insecure, and HOLDS ON TO THE BALL WAY TO LONG.

Stop blaming everyone else but the QB.
[/quote]

Your hate for Flacco is as strong as edreedfromtheu and wizard1. You always appear after a loss and blame Flacco for everything that goes wrong. It is interesting how you are never on the forum when Flacco play good and the Ravens win but yet when the team lose, you come in and say that it is Flacco fault for the loss.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Flacc played like doo doo. You happy

[EternalRavensDefense]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1324424487' post='916870']

This game was by no means on Joe Flacco, bad special teams, and bad defense were just as much contributing factors to our loss as bad Qb play; however, this topic is about Joe.So stop being salty if people aren't saying nice things about your golden boy.
[/quote]

Nobody being salty about Joe. We can all acknowledge that he didn't have a great game. It is just that you always get uptight and have to bash everyone that want to defend Flacco.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='EternalRavensDefense' timestamp='1324424728' post='916874']

Nobody being salty about Joe. We can all acknowledge that he didn't have a great game. It is just that you always get uptight and have to bash everyone that want to defend Flacco.
[/quote]

The thing about this whole flacco thing is he's either great or terrible.

There's no pretty good in this debate.

Flacco's a pretty good quarterback and good enough to win the superbowl right now.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='EternalRavensDefense' timestamp='1324424649' post='916872']

Your hate for Flacco is as strong as edreedfromtheu and wizard1. You always appear after a loss and blame Flacco for everything that goes wrong. It is interesting how you are never on the forum when Flacco play good and the Ravens win but yet when the team lose, you come in and say that it is Flacco fault for the loss.
[/quote]

This game was by no means on Joe Flacco, bad special teams, and bad defense were just as much contributing factors to our loss as bad Qb play; however, this topic is about Joe.

And I have come on here after every game win or loss, and several times i have said Flacco played great, but I want to see it on a consistent basis before I really buy into him, and the only thing he has truly accomplished this season is playing at astonishingly inconsistent level. So yeah I am not a huge fan of him, I think he has taken a step back this season; however, I wholeheartedly wish that Joe wakes up tomorrow morning and proves everything I have ever said wrong, I want this team and everyone on it to succeed.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1324424845' post='916875']

The thing about this whole flacco thing is he's either great or terrible.

There's no pretty good in this debate.

Flacco's a pretty good quarterback and good enough to win the superbowl right now.
[/quote]

I'm truly curious as to how you define pretty good, because other than one game this season, he has been sub par and his stats are terrible.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1324424652' post='916873']
Flacc played like doo doo. You happy [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]

hahaha that's all I wanted to hear.

[EternalRavensDefense]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1324425143' post='916877']

I'm truly curious as to how you define pretty good, because other than one game this season, he has been sub par and his stats are terrible.
[/quote]

Actually, Flacco's stats this years are close to Big Ben in 2008 and most of John Elway's careers. They are not that bad when you consider his game against the Rams, 49ers, Bengals, Steelers twice, etc.

Flacco was progressing every years from 2008-2010 when he had both Hue Jackson and Jim Zorn advising him. His stats have only been up and down when Cam Cameron became the quarterback coach.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='EternalRavensDefense' timestamp='1324425436' post='916885']

Actually, Flacco's stats this years are close to Big Ben in 2008 and most of John Elway's careers. They are not that bad when you consider his game against the Rams, 49ers, Bengals, Steelers twice, etc.

Flacco was progressing every years from 2008-2010 when he had both Hue Jackson and Jim Zorn advising him. His stats have only been up and down when Cam Cameron became the quarterback coach.
[/quote]

How dare you compare Joe Flacco to John Elway. Elway never put up huge stats that wasn't his game, his career was made upon clutch plays in clutch moments. Joe is not even in the same conversation as Elway. In addition, Elway played the majority of his career in a different era, where the game hadn't become so pass heavy.

So one of Roethlisberger's worst seasons is good when Joe is having it?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1324425766' post='916888']

How dare you compare Joe Flacco to John Elway. Elway never put up huge stats that wasn't his game, his career was made upon clutch plays in clutch moments. Joe is not even in the same conversation as Elway. In addition, Elway played the majority of his career in a different era, where the game hadn't become so pass heavy.

So Roethlisberger's worst season is good when Joe is having it?
[/quote]

Well 2008 was the year they won the SB and I think he was making the point that Joe could win us a SB.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1324425901' post='916894']

Well 2008 was the year they won the SB and I think he was making the point that Joe could win us a SB.
[/quote]

That would be ironic, that season they swept us in every game we played them, including beating us away in the playoffs, but Ben turned it on in the postseason that year especially in the Superbowl, I have doubts as to whether Joe is capable of doing that.

[BenDufusberger]

Advanced NFL Stats is putting out some graphics that allow you to compare players using their EPA and WPA rating measures , by game or by year. You can compare QBs with it , here :

[url="http://wp.advancednflstats.com/QBviz.php"]http://wp.advancednflstats.com/QBviz.php[/url]

Ben's early years are more up and down , while Flacco progressed steadily from '08 -'10 , then leveled off.

[EternalRavensDefense]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1324425766' post='916888']

How dare you compare Joe Flacco to John Elway. Elway never put up huge stats that wasn't his game, his career was made upon clutch plays in clutch moments. Joe is not even in the same conversation as Elway. In addition, Elway played the majority of his career in a different era, where the game hadn't become so pass heavy.

So Roethlisberger's worst season is good when Joe is having it?
[/quote]

I don't get why you are praising John Elway for having clutch moments when Flacco has done that plently of times against the Vikings in 09 if Steve made the kick at the end, against the Bills last year when the defense couldn't stop anybody, the Falcons last year, beating the Steelers on two game winning drives, etc. Flacco has come through in the clutch plently of time.

Now, Flacco may never become a hall of famer like Elway but this idea of John Elway being so great is just wrong.

John Elway has four of the worst superbowl performances of all times. He got crushed by the 49ers with Montana throwing for 5 touchdowns while Elway could do nothing.

Heck, when the Broncos beated the Packers, it was mainly thank to Terrell Davis three touchdown performaces that allowed them to win.

Elway played like he normally did in the superbowl by going 12 out of 22 pass completions, for 123 yards and 1 interception.

Elway could beat the weak teams in the AFC but when he played the dominant NFC champion in the superbowl, he was simply overwhelmed. There is a reason why the NFC had over an entire decade of winning superbowls.

[usmccharles]

[quote name='blazeon32' timestamp='1324423734' post='916853']

I agree 100% with this. We are not a high scoring quick strike team. We sustain drives and score points, rather it be a field goal or touchdown. We could've scored more against both the Colts and Cleveland if we wanted to, but we chose to run out the clock. The offense wasn't good against San Diego, they get a D from me, but the defense was horrible, they get an F. Ray Lewis looked really bad as did our corners and just about everybody else on defense.
[/quote]

Ray lewis led the game with 10 tackles...so not too bad

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1324423748' post='916855']

Vick's career stats
1380/2467 17,284 yds 55.9 completion percentage 106 TDs, 71 INTs 44 Fumbles 80.2 QB rating
That's for 10 years worth of NFL time. I couldn't find if that included his "time away" or not. But, let's say it does and it is in actuality only 7 years. (I believe he was gone for 3 years, I could be mistaken).

Flacco's career stats

1164/1915 13,554 yds 60.8 completion percentage 74 TDs 45 INT 28 Fumbles 85.8 QB rating

So , if you think Vick is better than Flacco, it is I who don't know what to say.
[/quote]

Vick from 2001-2006 is a different player than the 2010-2011 version. And yes, the "10 years" includes his time in prison, so it is realistically 7 seasons (I'll throw 2010 in there too) in a starting roll.

Now, don't forget you have only included Vick's passing numbers. You need to add in 5,206 rushing yards (averaging 7.2 yds/carry) and 33 more TDs.

For a better comparison of who they are now, lets take the Vick of the last 2 years who is no longer run first, pass if the run fails and compare that to Flacco's last 2 years:

Flacco (30 games)

592/988 (59.9%) for 6970 yards + 141 yards rushing (7111 total) - 7.06yds/pass & 1.83yds/rush - 42 TDs passing/2 TDs rushing (44 total)

Vick (23 games)

444/724 (61.3%) for 5693 yards + 1252 yards rushing (6945 total) - 7.86yds/pass & 7.27yds/rush - 34 TDs passing/10 TDs running (44 total)

Vick has seven fewer games with better completion %, better yards per passing attempt, ridiculously better rushing yards/attempt and the same number of TDs with the added bonus of making defenses respect his mobility opening up passing and rushing lanes for his other players. And that's behind one of the worst protecting offensive lines in the NFL.

For giggles, projecting these numbers out for the 7 games he missed you get something like:

579/944 for 7426 yards + 1633 yards rushing (9059 total) - 44 TDs passing/ 13 TDs running (57 TDs)

[1/28/01]

You cant compare Vick and Flacco....well, Vick and any QB, really.

[usmccharles]

Vick is injury prone...ill take a healthy joe any day

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='usmccharles' timestamp='1324428752' post='916945']
Vick is injury prone...ill take a healthy joe any day
[/quote]

That's like saying Carson Palmer was concussion prone because his Bengals offensive line was a like a rusty sieve that protected him like a Papier-mâché bulletproof vest.

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1324425901' post='916894']

Well 2008 was the year they won the SB and I think he was making the point that Joe could win us a SB.
[/quote]

that would be so mint!!

[usmccharles]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324429694' post='916960']


That's like saying Carson Palmer was concussion prone because his Bengals offensive line was a like a rusty sieve that protected him like a Papier-mâché bulletproof vest.
[/quote]

Not really. Vick runs the ball and puts him at risk...he wont complete a full season again this year. And vick in the afc north would get murdered like his dogs were. Flacco has 6" on him and prolly 50-60lbs. Ill take joe

[flynismo]

Please. I like to win. Give me Flacco. If I need a puppy assassin, I'll make sure to give Vick a call then

[The Black Bird]

I'm tired of all these how bad Flacco is threads. Every QB miss throws, every QB make mistakes and every QB have bad games. Some may think Flacco is the problem, but I think Cam is holding our QB back. Look at how Rivers and Brees turned out when Cam left. They both were good QB with Cam and so is Joe,but they seem to got better when he left especially Brees. The system Cam uses for Joe is not to his strengths. This has been the same thing every year and nothing still hasn't change. We have so many weapons and Flacco already proved he can make any and every throw. He's just not in the right system so he can play more to his strengths.