Thing I've Noticed About Flacco

[Milton145]

Before I wasn't as aware of it but now I am. Cam Cameron really sucks. The offense just doesn't seem smooth to me AT ALL whenever we pass. We always seem to attack towards the sidelines with long developing routes. If we do manage to do a quick pass to our WRs it's almost always going to be a curl (which are the easiest to jump and take to the house for defenders). I rarely see Boldin doing short drags so he can get some YAC. He is doing a bit more slants than last year but not enough. The middle of the field always seems to be ignored on our pass plays and nothing just seems to flow well. I don't think it's Flacco I think it's Cam.

How does Boldin basically go from not playing a full season but still puts up great numbers with AZ but comes to Baltimore, hasn't missed any games and isn't anywhere near as productive. Our system sucks.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='Milton145' timestamp='1324411962' post='916608']
Before I wasn't as aware of it but now I am. Cam Cameron really sucks. The offense just doesn't seem smooth to me AT ALL whenever we pass. We always seem to attack towards the sidelines with long developing routes. If we do manage to do a quick pass to our WRs it's almost always going to be a curl. I rarely see Boldin doing short drags so he can get some YAC. He is doing a bit more slants than last year but not enough. The middle of the field always seems to be ignored on our pass plays and nothing just seems to flow well. I don't think it's Flacco I think it's Cam.

How does Boldin basically go from not playing a full season but still puts up great numbers with AZ but comes to Baltimore, hasn't missed any games and isn't anywhere near as productive. Our system sucks.
[/quote]

Agreed. I so hope Cameron's gone next year, regardless of how this season finishes. I just want change instead of feeling we're banging our heads against a brick wall with him.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Milton145' timestamp='1324411962' post='916608']
Before I wasn't as aware of it but now I am. Cam Cameron really sucks. The offense just doesn't seem smooth to me AT ALL whenever we pass. We always seem to attack towards the sidelines with long developing routes. If we do manage to do a quick pass to our WRs it's almost always going to be a curl (which are the easiest to jump and take to the house for defenders). I rarely see Boldin doing short drags so he can get some YAC. He is doing a bit more slants than last year but not enough. The middle of the field always seems to be ignored on our pass plays and nothing just seems to flow well. I don't think it's Flacco I think it's Cam.

[b]How does Boldin basically go from not playing a full season but still puts up great numbers with AZ but comes to Baltimore, hasn't missed any games and isn't anywhere near as productive. Our system sucks.[/b]
[/quote]

Cam's system is definitely an issue. But for all but one year during his time in Arizona, he had Fitzgerald opposite him. From '05 to '09, he had Warner throwing him the football(most of the time). And age and injuries have definitely taken their toll on him.

[BMOREHAWAII]

Its obvious Flacco is a victim of design. Cam Cameron's play calling calls for alot of audibles and LOS changes, Joe does nothing at the line of scrimmage pre-snap and almost always telegraphs when the ball is snapped. Good QB's make changes at the line and adjusts to coverage.

[ROH522155]

I don't we are even close to thinking about drafting another quarterback. Besides 5th rounder Tyrod Taylor

[slowj0e]

A thing i realized sunday night is that flacco does not make deep drop backs like brees or brady. By doing this, they can step up in the pocket, set their feet and make accurate throws. Flaccos main problem is that his footwork sucks and thats why he has inconsistencies. Also, the ravens offensive system sucks passing wise. If people really want flacco to be elite than look at the system that elite quaterbacks are in. Not every receiver runs a slow developing route (Cam Cameron). Sean Payton, Norv Turner, and Belicheck play to their qbs strengths and cam does not.

[Suggs Package]

Just want to clear up some misconceptions about this team and Flacco.[list]
[*]We wouldn't have won even with Peyton Manning as our QB with the way our defense was being carved up
[*]Joe Flacco is a good QB. His decision making has improved a lot this year believe it or not. His accuracy hasn't.
[*]Joe Flacco doesn't have the quick release to be a WCO QB, He is much better suited for this offense. He would get killed in a traditional WCO
[*]Torrey Smith, with his suspect route running and hands is definitely not a good fit for a WCO, he is much better in this offense
[*]The offensive line has generally been pretty good all year protecting Joe, but McKinnie sucks against smaller, faster DEs and OLBs
[*]Flacco doesn't need to throw the ball deep. He is a league leader in deep passing attempts
[*]Flacco does need to take more risks. Risks do not mean throwing deep, but throwing to receivers when they are well defended. This is where his accuracy comes into play.
[*]Boldin is one of the lead leaders in snaps from the slot, so "putting him in the slot" isn't going to solve any problems.
[*]The reason RIce goes thru periods when he doesn't get the ball is because passing is simply much more efficient than running the ball. In the league right now, an average QB is better than having a good RB. Read these two articles to see my point. [url="http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/11/identity-crisis.html"]http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/11/identity-crisis.html[/url]; [url="http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/features/2011/nfl_2011/week_11/nfl_offense_running_for_three_yards_is_like_going_backwards_.html"]http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/features/2011/nfl_2011/week_11/nfl_offense_running_for_three_yards_is_like_going_backwards_.html[/url]
[/list]
That is all.

[CLAV410]

So if Flacco is just dumping off the ball Im having a hard time figuring out how Torrey Smith is among the leauge leaders in YPC ? Sorry guys as much you all like to blame Joe EVERYTHING that goes wrong and NOTHING that goes right , when you give up 34 pts don't cause ANY turnovers.. 9 times out of 10 you're gonna lose.

[Suggs Package]

[quote name='slowj0e' timestamp='1324413965' post='916641']
A thing i realized sunday night is that flacco does not make deep drop backs like brees or brady. By doing this, they can step up in the pocket, set their feet and make accurate throws. Flaccos main problem is that his footwork sucks and thats why he has inconsistencies. Also, the ravens offensive system sucks passing wise. If people really want flacco to be elite than look at the system that elite quaterbacks are in. Not every receiver runs a slow developing route (Cam Cameron). Sean Payton, Norv Turner, and Belicheck play to their qbs strengths and cam does not.
[/quote]

The Ravens purposefully took away seven step drops from the offense because McKinnie has been struggling against certain pass rushers. Just wanted to point that out.

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1324415156' post='916662']

The Ravens purposefully took away seven step drops from the offense because McKinnie has been struggling against certain pass rushers. Just wanted to point that out.
[/quote]

That's something that really troubles me. McKinnie started the year in bad shape , and this far into the season he's probably feeling gassed by the end of the first quarter. With each passing game , that will only become more of a problem.

We are really starved for O-line depth that would allow us to keep guys fresh by giving them the occasional break. In McKinnie's case , we really need someone behind him who's pushing to win his job , too.

I once heard Ozzie say that , as with cornerbacks , you can never have too many O-linemen. I hope he keeps that in mind in the '12 draft.

[izvoodoo]

We're not drafting another left tackle or quarterback.

As much as that may irritate this board, our FO is patient (sometimes to a fault) and surely will hope to improve with coaching.

[marylandmike12]

the only thing i dont like is number 2 we will fire him

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='RivenHale' timestamp='1324396844' post='916200']

I agree, Andy Dalton would have gone 92 yards in PIttsburgh no problem. As long as the Steelers D was kind enough to hit the locker room early, anyway.
[/quote]
and on primetime. im SURE any dalton the rookie qb could do that. I like andy dalton he was great for TCU but he aint Joe Flacco!

[izvoodoo]

Thing I've noticed about ravens fans on this board:
They're fickle, over react, are too emotional and can't appreciate that they don't have the likes of Freeman and Sanchez as their QB.

And blame flacco for giving up 34 points.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

I wouldn't put too much stock in what Chris Colinsworth says. As a player, he was very fortunate to be on the receiving end of many pinpoint accurate passes from Ken Anderson from tiny Augustana College. Ken should be in the HOF; Chris Colinsworth (CC) should not be in the HOF. The other CC --- Chris Carter will be one day. As an announcer, Colinsworth is very fickle. He stated before the game that B'more was his choice to represent the AFC in the SB this year. As the game proceeded, his commentary was very subjective and negative. When the Ravens scored their second TD late in the game, he questioned why the Ravens had not done the same thing earlier in the game. It was a very unastute comment coming from a former NFL Pro Bowler. He should have realized that the game was all but over and the TD was a garbage time TD. When teams go into prevent defenses, the only thing they usually prevent is winning. The Chargers had the game well in hand and the TD was meaningless. If you have ever played Madden Football, you would realize that Colinsworth's comments are repetitive. He says the same trite comments over and over again. He really needs some new material or a better writer.

[EternalRavensDefense]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1324413594' post='916634']
Its obvious Flacco is a victim of design. Cam Cameron's play calling calls for alot of audibles and LOS changes, Joe does nothing at the line of scrimmage pre-snap and almost always telegraphs when the ball is snapped. Good QB's make changes at the line and adjusts to coverage.
[/quote]

Actually, Cam Cameron has already said that audibles are overrated and that there is no real reason for Flacco to be changing plays.

[usmccharles]

rex grossman
[b]eli manning[/b]
[b]tony romo[/b]
michael vick
[b]big ben[/b]
colt mccoy
andy dalton
matt hasslebeck
orvlosky
balin gabbert
[b]schaub[/b]/tj yates
sam bradford
tavaris jackson
tim teebow
matt cassle/kyle orton
carson palmer
[b]rivers[/b]
sanchez
[b]brady[/b]
matt moore
fitzpatrick
[b]brees[/b]
matt ryan
alex smith
christian ponder
jay cutler
[b]rodgers[/b]
[b]stafford[/b]
freeman
kolb
cam newton

theres 9 qbs that id consider taking over Joe, but most that are questionable have an elite wr or wr corps. IE: romo with miles austin and dez bryan. Schaub with andre johnson. Rodgers obviously is just insane. brady,,,enoough said. brees...same as before. stafford with megatron. Eli is iffy. rivers is elite. big ben we know all to well.

So look at some of those wr corps, give flacco a vjax, calvin johnson, miles and dez, etc....he would more than likely be just out side of the top tier qbs after rodgers, brady, brees, rivers, ben. so you cant just look at joe and blame everything on him. even with our wr corps joe is a top 10 qb, give him a monster wr and i am willing to bet we would see joe throwing 4000 yards easily a season. Not to mention the style of offense

[eandb17]

[quote name='usmccharles' timestamp='1324418238' post='916724']
rex grossman
[b]eli manning[/b]
[b]tony romo[/b]
michael vick
[b]big ben[/b]
colt mccoy
andy dalton
matt hasslebeck
orvlosky
balin gabbert
[b]schaub[/b]/tj yates
sam bradford
tavaris jackson
tim teebow
matt cassle/kyle orton
carson palmer
[b]rivers[/b]
sanchez
[b]brady[/b]
matt moore
fitzpatrick
[b]brees[/b]
matt ryan
alex smith
christian ponder
jay cutler
[b]rodgers[/b]
[b]stafford[/b]
freeman
kolb
cam newton

theres 9 qbs that id consider taking over Joe, but most that are questionable have an elite wr or wr corps. IE: romo with miles austin and dez bryan. Schaub with andre johnson. Rodgers obviously is just insane. brady,,,enoough said. brees...same as before. stafford with megatron. Eli is iffy. rivers is elite. big ben we know all to well.

So look at some of those wr corps, give flacco a vjax, calvin johnson, miles and dez, etc....he would more than likely be just out side of the top tier qbs after rodgers, brady, brees, rivers, ben. so you cant just look at joe and blame everything on him. even with our wr corps joe is a top 10 qb, give him a monster wr and i am willing to bet we would see joe throwing 4000 yards easily a season. Not to mention the style of offense
[/quote]
Realistically these are those who have performed better than Joe through their careers.

rex grossman
[b]eli manning[/b]
[b]tony romo[/b]
[b]michael vick[/b]
[b]big ben[/b]
colt mccoy
andy dalton
[b]matt hasslebeck[/b]
orvlosky
balin gabbert
[b]schaub[/b]/tj yates
sam bradford
tavaris jackson
tim teebow
[b]matt cassle/kyle orton[/b]
[b]carson palmer[/b]
[b]rivers[/b]
sanchez
[b]brady[/b]
matt moore
fitzpatrick
[b]brees[/b]
[b]matt ryan[/b]
alex smith
christian ponder
[b]jay cutler[/b]
[b]rodgers[/b]
[b]stafford[/b]
freeman
kolb
[b]cam newton[/b]

Look at the names that were not highlighted, that is the company Joe Flacco is in. If we ever want to win a Super Bowl we need someone like the names in bold.

[JacktheRaven]

Just another knee jerk reaction. Joe takes shots down field! I heard The Herd say, on Monday, the Ravens were in a slump.
Ravens are 4-1 in their last 5 games. We all need to relax.

[JacktheRaven]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1324417434' post='916708']
Thing I've noticed about ravens fans on this board:
They're fickle, over react, are too emotional and can't appreciate that they don't have the likes of Freeman and Sanchez as their QB.

And blame flacco for giving up 34 points.
[/quote]
I agree. If Ravens win the SB, I guess we can't complain about anything. They lose 1 game, and want to fire Cam and get a new QB. Better be carefull what you wish for.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='JacktheRaven' timestamp='1324419625' post='916754']
I agree. If Ravens win the SB, I guess we can't complain about anything. They lose 1 game, and want to fire Cam and get a new QB. Better be carefull what you wish for.
[/quote]

The truth is there are better OC's and QBs than cam and flacco, but they are very rare.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

PS - Joe Flacco can air it out with the best of them. The initiator of this thread really ought to get his facts straight before making an observation about Joe's inability to throw long passes. What QB in NFL history has won the most games in his 1st 4 seasons in the NFL? The answer is two QBs are tied and Philip Rivers isn't one of them. Mattie Ice and Frozen Joe Flacco from Ball So Hard U are tied with 42 wins each. Dan Marino, Otto Graham and Ben Rothlisberger are the next closest to Flacco and Ryan. Wins for Pro QBs are one of the most important stats that count. Ryan leads all active QBs in winning % - .700 but Joe is right behind him with a winning percentage of .677. Joe's % is better than Philip Rivers. When the Chargers beat the Ravens, Philip Rivers played better than Joe for one shining moment but the key to success is sustained performance over the long haul and consistency. Joe's performance this season has been far better than most of the starting QBs in the league. Old Ravens fans like me tend to be spoiled because we were fortunate to have followed the exploits of Johnny Unitas for so long. Joe deserves to be signed to a long term contract and we would be very foolish to let him get away. Be careful not to judge Joe's performance too harshly. John Unitas set a very high bar for excellence and was w/o peers in my opinion. [u][b]Trivia[/b][/u]: What NFL QB in history has the most 4th Qtr TDs in a single season? Answer: Three are tied through this season --- John Unitas, Peyton Manning and Eli Manning. Unitas set the record in a twelve game season. Peyton tied it in a 16 game season and Eli tied it in the 13th game this year. Last weekend , he had 0 4th qtr TDs and has two more games left to set a new record.

PPS - Keep the Fu Manchu, Joe! The cat whiskers are looking cool. A lot of men smoke but Fu Man Chew.

[Free Agent]

Before I throw Joe under the bus, I want to see him without Cam for a season. Last year, Mason, Boldin, and Housh couldnt get open, so we went after speed. This year, Lee, Torrey and Boldin cant get open. Its got to be the gameplan.

[DMH_in_WA]

I will worry about Joe more when Cam is gone and it still looks like this. I just think a huge problem is Cameron. That said, I posted it in another thread but this statement from Coach Harbaugh yesterday really bothered me and it still does. On Flacco's performance on Sunday:

[b]“Joe didn’t have a lot of places to go with the ball that were clear cut to him,” Harbaugh said during Monday’s press conference. “They did a really nice job of covering. It was mostly zone coverage the whole game. And they just executed it very well.”[/b]

He didn't say there was nowhere to go with the ball. I read this statement as there were places to go, but Joe didn't identify them.

Or am I reading too much into it?

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='eandb17' timestamp='1324418796' post='916733']
Realistically these are those who have performed better than Joe through their careers.

rex grossman
[b]eli manning[/b]
[b]tony romo[/b]
[b]michael vick[/b]
[b]big ben[/b]
colt mccoy
andy dalton
[b]matt hasslebeck[/b]
orvlosky
balin gabbert
[b]schaub[/b]/tj yates
sam bradford
tavaris jackson
tim teebow
[b]matt cassle/kyle orton[/b]
[b]carson palmer[/b]
[b]rivers[/b]
sanchez
[b]brady[/b]
matt moore
fitzpatrick
[b]brees[/b]
[b]matt ryan[/b]
alex smith
christian ponder
[b]jay cutler[/b]
[b]rodgers[/b]
[b]stafford[/b]
freeman
kolb
[b]cam newton[/b]

Look at the names that were not highlighted, that is the company Joe Flacco is in. If we ever want to win a Super Bowl we need someone like the names in bold.
[/quote]
Seriously... Matt Cassle? Kyle Orton? Carson Palmer? Michael Vick?

I mean REALLY?! REALLY?! REALLY?

The defense gives up what was 400 points and you want MICHAEL VICK.

Who is 1 game over .500?

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1324421966' post='916797']
Seriously... Matt Cassle? Kyle Orton? Carson Palmer? Michael Vick?

I mean REALLY?! REALLY?! REALLY?

The defense gives up what was 400 points and you want MICHAEL VICK.

Who is 1 game over .500?
[/quote]

Michale Vick vs Joe Flacco? Are you kidding me? Give Vick a solid O-line to stand behind and not the one he has now that puts his life in peril every snap and he destroys.

I like Joe (I'd like him more if he learned to get rid of the ball and stop taking sacks and fumbles), but anyone who thinks that putting them both behind the same Ravens line and with everything else being equal, Flacco would outperform Vick is insane.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324422296' post='916802']

Michale Vick vs Joe Flacco? Are you kidding me? Give Vick a solid O-line to stand behind and not the one he has now that puts his life in peril every snap and he destroys.

I like Joe (I'd like him more if he learned to get rid of the ball and stop taking sacks and fumbles), but anyone who thinks that putting them both behind the same Ravens line and with everything else being equal, Flacco would outperform Vick is insane.
[/quote]

Vick has the "Dream Team" remember? Most of the Top Talent available in FA this season. And he still can't get it done. Vick is not better than Flacco.

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1324422442' post='916805']

Vick has the "Dream Team" remember? Most of the Top Talent available in FA this season. And he still can't get it done. Vick is not better than Flacco.
[/quote]


That moniker was given to them based on one person (backup QB at that) making a comment in the off-season. How many times does it need to be said? You can't buy a team, you can only buy players. They haven't been playing as a team and they haven't been playing up to their on-paper potential. Again, if you think in equal circumstances that Joe Flacco is the equal of Michael Vick, I don't even know what to say.

[usmccharles]

You cant put cam in that categoey, he hasnt played a full season yet and id like to see more before i call him a top qb.

How can you put ryan in that category? Hes also got roddy white. I lOve how people seem to give ryan more props than joe, but ryan hasnt had a playoff win yet, ill take joe over ryan anyday.

And i dont think you can compare a full career of some of these players to joe who is in his 4th year. Ie joe has very similar numbers to brees in the first 4years, someone else started that thread.

I disagree with the cassel/orton one, i dont think either are better than joe.



[quote name='eandb17' timestamp='1324418796' post='916733']

Realistically these are those who have performed better than Joe through their careers.

rex grossman
[b]eli manning[/b]
[b]tony romo[/b]
[b]michael vick[/b]
[b]big ben[/b]
colt mccoy
andy dalton
[b]matt hasslebeck[/b]
orvlosky
balin gabbert
[b]schaub[/b]/tj yates
sam bradford
tavaris jackson
tim teebow
[b]matt cassle/kyle orton[/b]
[b]carson palmer[/b]
[b]rivers[/b]
sanchez
[b]brady[/b]
matt moore
fitzpatrick
[b]brees[/b]
[b]matt ryan[/b]
alex smith
christian ponder
[b]jay cutler[/b]
[b]rodgers[/b]
[b]stafford[/b]
freeman
kolb
[b]cam newton[/b]

Look at the names that were not highlighted, that is the company Joe Flacco is in. If we ever want to win a Super Bowl we need someone like the names in bold.
[/quote]

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324422612' post='916812']


That moniker was given to them based on one person (backup QB at that) making a comment in the off-season. How many times does it need to be said? You can't buy a team, you can only buy players. They haven't been playing as a team and they haven't been playing up to their on-paper potential. Again, if you think in equal circumstances that Joe Flacco is the equal of Michael Vick, I don't even know what to say.
[/quote]

I don't know, how about I say MICHAEL VICK HAS COMPLETED 60% of HIS PASSES FOR ONE YEAR OF HIS 8 YEAR CAREER!

I'm almost certain flacco will be the better players 10 years into his career. And is younger and cheaper. And less injury prone.

And has never gone to prison.