It Sounds Blasphemous, But It's Time To Ask The Question...

[jagans]

It is very obvious to me that Ray has slowed down considerably in the last couple of years. The position he plays is all about reaction time and speed. He is showing up late to the dance more than he is on time nowadays, and in a position where fractions of a second make the difference, you need someone who is really fast with great reaction time. It is my opinion that it is time for Ray to pack it in take his place with the other Baltimore Legends like Cal Ripkin, Johnny Unitas, and Brooks Robinson. Yes, he was that good, and deserves his place next to them.

[SouthsideNCRavens]

Can this team not put the entire weight of a professional football season on an aging man's shoulders? Jesus.

[Tank 92]

You can't really develop an educated opinion yet as to whether Ray is done or not. Who knows how much the turf toe thing is still with him.

[arnie_uk]

i think hes done at the end of the year tbh, i think he will retire.. ino that wasnt asked, but im not starting a new topic on Ray lewis

[jaege]

Positively, no. Just for this simple fact, who is going to replace him? If the question was "is he as good as he used to be" then no he is not, but he is still better than most who play the position and very integral to the team.

[ravensfan160]

Our defense is more predictable with Ray in there because he is limited in coverage. Does his leadership and run stuffing ability make up for it? Perhaps, but the Chargers repeatedly converted 3rd downs over the middle.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='SouthsideNCRavens' timestamp='1324300765' post='912936']
Just because Ray Lewis was there, means nothing. Our fanbase is as bi-polar as our team is; we've had days where we won and, say, Ed Reed performed well and we went off the lid, screaming and chanting his name, now just as many, some who praised him then, are cursing him down. Ray Lewis did his best, but the problem is some of you put it on him to be the game-changing person, and that's not who he is. He is a leader, and like Terrell Suggs said, "this is a reality check"; he's not a God. He's a middle linebacker in his final years. Does not mean he isn't good. Can you blame Ray Lewis for the lack of pressure given on Rivers? No. Can you blame Ray Lewis for Joe Flacco throwing interceptions consecutively? No. Can you blame Ray Lewis for Ray Rice dropping a ball he had inside his grip? No.

There were a myriad of problems last night, and they weren't all based on Ray Lewis being there. All you're doing is trying to find a reason. No, it's the truth. We acted like this when he was there, we've won when he was there this season, and lost when he was there this season. If I handed you a factsheet about last night's game on the Ravens' performance, all it would say is "Ravens' got their asses handed to them", because that's exactly what all happened. We did not beat ourselves, and Ray Lewis did not beat us; the San Diego Chargers' beat us, on all cylinders.

Stop trying to make excuses, and accept that we lost as a team. Stop trying to blame the person who's been here since our beginning, and has led us to a Superbowl. Our only superbowl. I am disgusted in this fairweather idiocy.
[/quote]

Actually, as far as Ray Lewis is concerned, I kind of felt his presence was missed on the sidelines. When he was out with an injury, the man put all his energy into coaching up our players, offense and defense. He wasn't doing that last night. It is entirely possible that he is not 100% although he was alright to play as well.

As for Ed Reed , I'm not exactly hating on him but he was definitely laying off tackles last night. Something is going on there because I have never seen him back down from a hit. Not hating on him, just wondering if all his injuries are taking their toll.

[Ravens Lover]

It was Jimmy Smith having to go against Jackson and Floid as a rookie, not Ray

[grantkyle2003]

I say Ray retires regardless after this year unless he wants to come back one last time for next year. I still think Rays replacement is in college and the part that sucks is unless we trade up high for a guy were really hoping for a late round steal.

[757RavensFan]

We've won 6 with him playing and won 4 w/out him playing. Last time I checked 6 > 4!!

[BloodRaven]

He might be too heavy, not fat just heavy. One of the things he's lost (other than speed) is his core flexibility, it's the reason he misses open field and arm tackles he used to make routinely. You could see it in that Giants game two years ago when he was 260lb.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

I reviewed the game and saw just one pass completed to Gates while Ray was in coverage. He also made several nice tackles/hits in the run game.

I think this loss is just a nice excuse for a lot of posters to start this topic again. Anyone with half a brain know Ray Lewis isn't the reason the Ravens lost last night.

[PuRock]

[quote name='JohnnyBoy8102' timestamp='1324306658' post='913143']
I reviewed the game and saw just one pass completed to Gates while Ray was in coverage. He also made several nice tackles/hits in the run game.

I think this loss is just a nice excuse for a lot of posters to start this topic again. Anyone with half a brain know Ray Lewis isn't the reason the Ravens lost last night.
[/quote]

I hear you. Ray is a run stopper. We did fairly well stopping the run in down the middle. Ray wasn't the one lacking in the pressure department or blowing sideline route coverages. If people want to make Ray the scapegoat because we lost in the game he came back, then fine.

But it is a stretch. I'll agree Ray doesn't look great in coverage, but he hasn't all year. That's not his strength at this point in his career.

[ravens88]

the entire defense got worked ray missed a few tackles but Rivers attacked whatever corner was 1 on 1 with a reciever thats the story of the game.

[I AM LEGEND]

Why do people keep insinuating that the point of this thread was blaming Ray for last nights loss.....

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1324306802' post='913154']

I hear you. Ray is a run stopper. We did fairly well stopping the run in down the middle. Ray wasn't the one lacking in the pressure department or blowing sideline route coverages. If people want to make Ray the scapegoat because we lost in the game he came back, then fine.

[b]But it is a stretch. I'll agree Ray doesn't look great in coverage, but he hasn't all year. That's not his strength at this point in his career.[/b]
[/quote]

I agree that he hasn't looked great but I am a results type of guy and on the season he has given up 15 receptions for a QB Rating under 70 and 0 TDs. When reviewing all the games you will see that Ray does well many times when not thrown too and covers his responsibility just fine.

People overreact because it is Ray. Timmons got abused by Ray Rice in Week 1, it happens to Willis, Urlacher weekly, etc.

[Mr. GM]

Lets start from the top to the bottom:

HC John Harbaugh..." Im going to be more involved in the offense this year" You all thought a special teams coach can help an offense, [profanity deleted]!

OC C. Cameron... The most predictable plays in the league, dare I say B. Billick could call more diverse plays then this!?

DC C. Pagano... You see your corners getting beat deep, what would be the logical thing to do next?!?!?!? Everyone say it together now...have both E. Reed and Pollard play deep to help them out! When it was one safety deep, Rivers threw it to the opposite side.

Flacco... seems to have forgotten he has T. Smith has a deep threat WR. Even the game annoucers said we didnt the throw the ball deep, not even once! Who came up with that game plan.

Offensive line... got malled all night. Could it have been a result of a long plane flight?

Defense...See above. Everyone seemed "tired."

P.S. Just because you are a future Hall of Famer, you have to know when to hang up your cleats! Newsome you did a good job with releasing Heap, Mason, and K. Gregg. Now let R. Lewis and E. Reed become Ravens coach, they no longer are a factor on the field.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='Mr. GM' timestamp='1324307704' post='913185']
Lets start from the top to the bottom:

HC John Harbaugh..." Im going to be more involved in the offense this year" You all thought a special teams coach can help an offense, [profanity deleted]!

OC C. Cameron... The most predictable plays in the league, dare I say B. Billick could call more diverse plays then this!?

DC C. Pagano... You see your corners getting beat deep, what would be the logical thing to do next?!?!?!? Everyone say it together now...have both E. Reed and Pollard play deep to help them out! When it was one safety deep, Rivers threw it to the opposite side.

Flacco... seems to have forgotten he has T. Smith has a deep threat WR. Even the game annoucers said we didnt the throw the ball deep, not even once! Who came up with that game plan.

Offensive line... got malled all night. Could it have been a result of a long plane flight?

Defense...See above. Everyone seemed "tired."

P.S. Just because you are a future Hall of Famer, you have to know when to hang up your cleats! Newsome you did a good job with releasing Heap, Mason, and K. Gregg. Now let R. Lewis and E. Reed become Ravens coach,[b] they no longer are a factor on the field[/b].
[/quote]

Exhibit A: Why the Internet is a problem

Everyone, no matter how terrible or uninformed, has a forum for their opinion.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

These articles must mention some other Ray Lewis and not the one on the Ravens.

[url="http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/09/when-will-ray-lewis-slow-down.html"]http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/09/when-will-ray-lewis-slow-down.html[/url]

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/11/09/the-pff-mid-season-all-pro-team/"]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/11/09/the-pff-mid-season-all-pro-team/[/url]

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/11/30/pro-bowl-cheat-sheet-week-12/"]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/11/30/pro-bowl-cheat-sheet-week-12/[/url]

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/05/re-focused-jets-ravens-week-4/"]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/05/re-focused-jets-ravens-week-4/[/url]

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/19/re-focused-texans-ravens-week-6/"]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/19/re-focused-texans-ravens-week-6/[/url]

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/11/01/re-focused-cardinals-ravens/"]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/11/01/re-focused-cardinals-ravens/[/url]

[Mr. GM]

[quote name='JohnnyBoy8102' timestamp='1324308527' post='913205']

Exhibit A: Why the Internet is a problem

Everyone, no matter how terrible or uninformed, has a forum for their opinion.
[/quote]

Your a joke. I told everyone that this would be a hard game. Your a delusional fan boy that thought this game was going to be a push over!

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='Mr. GM' timestamp='1324312268' post='913350']

Your a joke. I told everyone that this would be a hard game. Your a delusional fan boy that thought this game was going to be a push over!
[/quote]

When did I say the game was going to be a push over? Read comprehension must not be a strong suit.

What do you mean by "your a joke". That doesn't make any sense.

[UMDan]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1324307052' post='913163']
Why do people keep insinuating that the point of this thread was blaming Ray for last nights loss.....
[/quote]

I don't get it either. I mean I understand how people might make that judgment, but not having Webb there was a bigger factor than having Ray Lewis there against a team where good corner coverage is key. Jimmy Smith had an awful day. Cary Williams didn't look terrific. McKinnie got burned a lot. Flacco could've done better. Maybe Ray Lewis didn't make as many plays, but where was Ed Reed? Haloti Ngata? Even Suggs didn't do anything phenomenal yesterday. Nobody was making plays on the defense. It was a total failure. The only association I could see is that the defense who had considerably stepped up once Ray was out, thought they could take a step back with Ray in the game, but I highly doubt anyone really had that mentality. The corner coverage and the lack of a pass rush was the biggest issue, and Ray is no common denominator in either of those areas.

It seems there's a war between those who will stick by Ray until he's using a walker to get around on the field, and those who are anticipating his retirement every time he slips up. I'm realistic - Ray doesn't have many years left. He's a terrific football player and motivator and an integral part of this team. As much as Ray would love to keep playing, when it's his time to retire, he'll do it. I believe he'll give it another shot or two if we don't get a ring this year. Even after his retirement I really hope he choses to be a part of this organization in some way, and I believe he will be. He loves Baltimore, and Baltimore loves him.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='UMDan' timestamp='1324313191' post='913382']

I don't get it either. I mean I understand how people might make that judgment, but not having Webb there was a bigger factor than having Ray Lewis there against a team where good corner coverage is key. Jimmy Smith had an awful day. Cary Williams didn't look terrific. McKinnie got burned a lot. Flacco could've done better. Maybe Ray Lewis didn't make as many plays, but where was Ed Reed? Haloti Ngata? Even Suggs didn't do anything phenomenal yesterday. Nobody was making plays on the defense. It was a total failure. The only association I could see is that the defense who had considerably stepped up once Ray was out, thought they could take a step back with Ray in the game, but I highly doubt anyone really had that mentality. The corner coverage and the lack of a pass rush was the biggest issue, and Ray is no common denominator in either of those areas.

It seems there's a war between those who will stick by Ray until he's using a walker to get around on the field, and those who are anticipating his retirement every time he slips up. I'm realistic - Ray doesn't have many years left. He's a terrific football player and motivator and an integral part of this team. As much as Ray would love to keep playing, when it's his time to retire, he'll do it. I believe he'll give it another shot or two if we don't get a ring this year. Even after his retirement I really hope he choses to be a part of this organization in some way, and I believe he will be. He loves Baltimore, and Baltimore loves him.
[/quote]

I agree with everything you wrote.

People tend to gloss over that the Bengals had 450 yards of offense on the D when Ray was out because they won that game. They then played the 49ers, Browns, and Colts which provide no threat at all to an opposing defense. People tend to overreact to those 3 games as if they were against the Packers, Saints, and Patriots.

After reviewing the film, other than that obvious Tolbert play, I thought Ray played the best on the defense yesterday. That is not saying much after yesterday's team performance but to say he was the problem or reason they lost is ridiculous.

[Guest RBates]

Some of you guys can be over the top, the man is playing slow right now period like it or not. I know Ray is your hero, but don't kid yourself he is getting slow, and i could not see one audible from his experience last night that helped us get a play stopped.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1324316372' post='913506']
Some of you guys can be over the top, the man is playing slow right now period like it or not. I know Ray is your hero, but don't kid yourself he is getting slow, and i could not see one audible from his experience last night that helped us get a play stopped.
[/quote]

Basically...

[frezeal33]

HAHAHA. Is this really a question? You think our defense is better without Ray? No. Our defense wouldn't be what it is today without his motivation and strength. He had an off day, so now everyone thinks he screwed the game up for us? He didn't.

[MsMarvel73]

OMG...the man has been on the sidelines for a month. He's going to be rusty, people....geesh!!!!!

I agree with those who have stated it was a team loss....there was a very pathetic lack of execution from our team in all aspects of the game. I just hope that Lewis and Zimmer aren't paying too close attention.

[nk02442]

Trade 49ers for Grant. When Willis is back they wont need him. That kid is going to be a starter somewhere.

[TXRaven]

No... Ray Lewis is nearing the end, but this was a team loss. It can not be pinned on Ray, Joe, Jimmy or our pass rush. We playd poorly as a team and everyone must accept blame.

[nk02442]

Ray should not even be on the field on 3rd downs unless its like 3 and 1. His coverage skills the last couple years is garbage and everyone exploits it. He is still a monster run stuffer and a wrecking ball at the line, but he is to slow for coverage.