It Sounds Blasphemous, But It's Time To Ask The Question...

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='JohnnyBoy8102' timestamp='1324270178' post='912377']

This is a pathetic post.

Ray has been performing at a very high level this season. He was still the 3rd rating ILB in the league on a per play basis according to pro football focus DESPITE missing 4 games. He had only given up 14 receptions all season and a 68.4 qb rating in passes thrown his way.
[/quote]
Let me rephrase forget stats the last four games our defense had that fire back. We had those young boys flying around the football. Today we looked old and tired. I will be willing to concede that the 3000 mile trip had something to do with it. The fact remains that Ray has lost a step, and i like the speed the young guys play with. So when asked the question should he step down my answer is yes.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1324270419' post='912409']
Let me rephrase forget stats the last four games our defense had that fire back. We had those young boys flying around the football. Today we looked old and tired. I will be willing to concede that the 3000 mile trip had something to do with it. The fact remains that Ray has lost a step, and [b]i like the speed the young guys play with[/b]. So when asked the question should he step down my answer is yes.
[/quote]

Good for you. Unfortunately, the Ravens do not play the 49ers, Colts, and Browns' Offenses every week.

[berad]

Ray Lewis has nothing to do with the pathetic play of Jimmy Smith and Cary Williams. He missed some tackles, sure, but every single person on our defense (team, really) was outmatched and underperformed.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1324270797' post='912450']
Ray Lewis has nothing to do with the pathetic play of Jimmy Smith and Cary Williams. He missed some tackles, sure, but every single person on our defense (team, really) was outmatched and underperformed.
[/quote]

But the Defense had "that fire" when they played the Colts and Browns. Clearly, they did not have it this game and it is Ray Lewis' fault apparently.

[berad]

[quote name='JohnnyBoy8102' timestamp='1324270942' post='912463']
But the Defense had "that fire" when they played the Colts and Browns. Clearly, they did not have it this game and it is Ray Lewis' fault apparently.
[/quote]

Haha, apparently. Losses make me sick.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1324271069' post='912473']

Haha, apparently. Losses make me sick.
[/quote]

Things looked so promising on that 1st drive. That missed FG foreshadowed the rest of the night.

[DMH_in_WA]

Ray looked slow? The entire defense looked slow and over-matched. They let the Chargers receivers get free releases from the line all game long. Ray made about 5 or 6 big stops on runs that stopped the score from being even worse. It's his first game back in a month and I still say he's not 100%.

If you're going to start worrying about people, I'm sure not going to start with Ray. I don't understand the gameplan that Pagano put in. It was so vanilla, so slow .. no pressure ... no anything. Smith was left on an island and was burned all night and they left him there alone. This game makes no sense ... none of the road loses make any sense. Until the head coach stops repeating his mantra that anybody who equates these games doesn't know "football" and addresses why we struggle so bad on the road, we're going to be in trouble if we don't get a #1 or #2 seed.

And finally, look .. Brady can have his rear end chewed ... can someone please crawl up Flacco's butt and stop him from taking needless sacks because he thinks if he holds onto the ball "one more second" he can make a play? How many of those are you going to take to lose 7 or 10 yards?

[Markus92]

on passing downs yes

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='Markus92' timestamp='1324271240' post='912491']
[b]on passing downs yes[/b]
[/quote]

He should have covered Floyd and Jackson better I suppose. That is Ray's fault.

15 of the 26 carries for Matthews went for 2 yards or less. He didn't have any long runs until the game was out of hand and the Chargers were killing the clock.

[Adam Jones]

Both corners got beat up all night, and apparently once you chip Suggs he is out of the play.

The worst part IMO is if we do end up as the 5th seed and SD somehow makes it into the playoffs, guess who and where we are playing.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324271169' post='912482']
Ray looked slow? The entire defense looked slow and over-matched. They let the Chargers receivers get free releases from the line all game long. Ray made about 5 or 6 big stops on runs that stopped the score from being even worse. It's his first game back in a month and I still say he's not 100%.

If you're going to start worrying about people, I'm sure not going to start with Ray. I don't understand the gameplan that Pagano put in. It was so vanilla, so slow .. no pressure ... no anything. Smith was left on an island and was burned all night and they left him there alone. This game makes no sense ... none of the road loses make any sense. Until the head coach stops repeating his mantra that anybody who equates these games doesn't know "football" and addresses why we struggle so bad on the road, we're going to be in trouble if we don't get a #1 or #2 seed.

And finally, look .. Brady can have his rear end chewed ... [u][b]can someone please crawl up Flacco's butt and stop him from taking needless sacks because he thinks if he holds onto the ball "one more second" he can make a play?[/b][/u] How many of those are you going to take to lose 7 or 10 yards?
[/quote]

i absolutely hate it when this cat hold that ball too damn long and takes these sacks. like someone here once said...he looks like gomer pile when he does that. smh!

~Mili

[Markus92]

[quote name='Adam Jones' timestamp='1324271470' post='912511']
Both corners got beat up all night, and apparently once you chip Suggs he is out of the play.

The worst part IMO is if we do end up as the 5th seed and SD somehow makes it into the playoffs, guess who and where we are playing.
[/quote]
Im not too worried about a rematch in San Diego... yes they beat us tonight but do you honestly feel that would happen again? I know my/our ravens and know for a fact we have way too much heart and pride for that...

[JohnnyBoy8102]

Where is the concern for the fact that Suggs didn't do anything all night?

How about JJ getting beat to the corner on that TD run?

How about the play of Cary Williams and Jimmy Smith?


On a side note, did McPhee/Kruger get many snaps tonight? I kept hoping they would come in and ignite the pass rush.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1324269263' post='912252']
I almost feel like its a crime to come on this board and seriously discuss any negative ravens issues..

It's horrible here after a loss...

If we win...we specifically pinpoint the top players and praise them for 7 days..

If we lose....and we try to discuss individual performances its "no no no EVERYONE sucked"


Yes we realized everyone sucked..but in order to find out why we sucked so bad...we unfortunately have to dig a little deeper...that means highlighting individual performances ...and ray wasn't the only reason we lost...but he was an issue none the less...and this thread will discuss his performance...

If people don't like it...they might wanna leave the thread
[/quote]

I'm not one of those people.

I saw Ed Reed laying off tackles tonight. It concerns me.

I saw Ray Lewis looking old. It concerns me.

It also saddens me greatly.

I saw Joe make 2 bad decisions. I can cut him a little slack because he was trying to get the ball downfield. Our D wasn't helping him out at all tonight. We didn't have time to sit there and get the ball to Rice and be patient.

Our zone coverage is awful and I think that also has a lot to do with Reed. He is not giving help out there to our CBs. I don't know man. It was just bad.

I will say this about our pass rush. I don't care what anyone says about ref whining. Chargers O line was blatantly holding all night long and no flags. As time went on with no flags it only got worse. Hard for our guys to get any sort of pass rush when the other team is allowed to hold all night long.

[Jillester]

Pagano's play calling was very suspect this evening. Perhaps his mind is on an open head coaching position as opposed to settling a score in San Diego. I thought he'd want to show-up his brother. He showed him alright...

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Jillester' timestamp='1324271878' post='912540']
Pagano's play calling was very suspect this evening. [b]Perhaps his mind is on an open head coaching position as opposed to settling a score in San Diego. [/b] I thought he'd want to show-up his brother. He showed him alright...
[/quote]

Or, maybe Norv called a great game by scheming out Pagano's best pass rusher and letting his experienced QB take advantage of a leaky secondary.

People can hate the guy all they want but Collinsworth knows what he's talking about. [url="http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/z-on-tv-blog/bal-baltimore-ravens-nbc-collinsowrth--san-diego-20111218,0,1147426.story"]Link[/url]

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='Jillester' timestamp='1324271878' post='912540']
Pagano's play calling was very suspect this evening. Perhaps his mind is on an open head coaching position as opposed to settling a score in San Diego. I thought he'd want to show-up his brother. He showed him alright...
[/quote]

The whole game I kept thinking this defense looked like a Mattison defense and not what we've come to expect from Pagano. If they had thrown in some 3-man rushes for no reason, it would have been a clone. Where were the stunts? Disguises? Where was the press coverage? Why are you playing back and letting them get free releases from the line? On and on.

[i82much]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1324272135' post='912553']

Or, maybe Norv called a great game by scheming out Pagano's best pass rusher and letting his experienced QB take advantage of a leaky secondary.

People can hate the guy all they want but Collinsworth knows what he's talking about. [url="http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/z-on-tv-blog/bal-baltimore-ravens-nbc-collinsowrth--san-diego-20111218,0,1147426.story"]Link[/url]
[/quote]

Yup.

[UMDan]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1324268099' post='912034']
...is the Ravens defense better without Ray Lewis?
[/quote]

No. Our defense really needs Webb. That was a huge difference maker, IMO. I think Ngata being hurt doesn't help either, it's pretty clear he hasn't been as effective in the second half of this season probably because of his back injury.

[Jillester]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1324272135' post='912553']

Or, maybe Norv called a great game by scheming out Pagano's best pass rusher and letting his experienced QB take advantage of a leaky secondary.

People can hate the guy all they want but Collinsworth knows what he's talking about. [url="http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/z-on-tv-blog/bal-baltimore-ravens-nbc-collinsowrth--san-diego-20111218,0,1147426.story"]Link[/url]
[/quote]

I give kudos to Norv! The entire Chargers team, players and coaches alike, put it on us. The hungrier team got the meat. End of Story.

[Jillester]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1324272227' post='912566']

The whole game I kept thinking this defense looked like a Mattison defense and not what we've come to expect from Pagano. If they had thrown in some 3-man rushes for no reason, it would have been a clone. Where were the stunts? Disguises? Where was the press coverage? Why are you playing back and letting them get free releases from the line? On and on.
[/quote]

The entire defense looked rather pathetic. The players seemed dazed and the plays were conservative. Not a good menu for an appetite to win.

[reediddy]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1324271829' post='912535']

I'm not one of those people.

I saw Ed Reed laying off tackles tonight. It concerns me.

I saw Ray Lewis looking old. It concerns me.

It also saddens me greatly.

I saw Joe make 2 bad decisions. I can cut him a little slack because he was trying to get the ball downfield. Our D wasn't helping him out at all tonight. We didn't have time to sit there and get the ball to Rice and be patient.

Our zone coverage is awful and I think that also has a lot to do with Reed. He is not giving help out there to our CBs. I don't know man. It was just bad.

I will say this about our pass rush. I don't care what anyone says about ref whining. Chargers O line was blatantly holding all night long and no flags. As time went on with no flags it only got worse. Hard for our guys to get any sort of pass rush when the other team is allowed to hold all night long.
[/quote]

As much as I want to agree with your last point, I will dismiss it. If it's something we can't control, just let it be.

On the other points, something is up with Reed, I agree. He was coming up lame after a lot of tackles and seemed like he was holding back. Plus his role is to prevent bombs like the 58-yarder to VJ and he failed in that regard.

Ray...man, as much as I absolutely hate saying it, his age might be catching up. He laid some good hits when he had the chance but looked slow in pursuit and pretty bad to be honest in coverage.

Gaither shut down Suggs tonight, sadly

[Trilogique]

I don't mind the discussion, but this really begs the question: would we have won if Ray Lewis was out? My answer is absolutely not. Ray Lewis is not the reason why we got torched through the air and eventually the ground.

So that's basically my response to the OP.

[RavenDefense]

Jameel Mcclain Needs To Play Man On Te's And Rb's Not Lewis , Lewis Needs To Play QB / Blitz Man Spy Every Single Down

[Twistidfunk]

For me it was Cary Williams and Jimmy. I got the sense that Ed Reed was babysitting Jimmy out there all the while Cary was getting beat on evey play. He made one nice pass breakup only to get beat DEEP the very next play. I think it was in the 3rd qtr. After that play he was BENCHED.

This game reminded me of the Titans game. Dink and Dunk and then a huge pass play. It was the exact same game. Target Cary Williams and Jimmy. Ed Reed and Polalrd were of zero use.

I didn't think Ray played all that poorly. He was not the old Ray but he hasn't been in quite some time. He is still solid.

The pass rush was a major major issue last night. Our DB's have played well most of the season and in large part do to our pass rush which went by bye last night. Really mind boggling considereing the Charger o-line is missing Diehlman and McNiel.

Gaither managed to hold off Suggs and no one else was able to bust through.

Awful defensive performance.

[Wallace17_OutRunMe]

Ray Lewis got schooled all game long by Gates and Tolbert. He missed numerous easy tackles and was late many times when it came to making tackles and preventing big plays.

[Wallace17_OutRunMe]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1324271829' post='912535']

I'm not one of those people.

I saw Ed Reed laying off tackles tonight. It concerns me.

I saw Ray Lewis looking old. It concerns me.

It also saddens me greatly.

I saw Joe make 2 bad decisions. I can cut him a little slack because he was trying to get the ball downfield. Our D wasn't helping him out at all tonight. We didn't have time to sit there and get the ball to Rice and be patient.

Our zone coverage is awful and I think that also has a lot to do with Reed. He is not giving help out there to our CBs. I don't know man. It was just bad.

I will say this about our pass rush. I don't care what anyone says about ref whining. Chargers O line was blatantly holding all night long and no flags. As time went on with no flags it only got worse. Hard for our guys to get any sort of pass rush when the other team is allowed to hold all night long.
[/quote]
You could probably call holding on every single play to a certain degree. Did the refs miss a few holding calls on SD?? Probably but it still wouldnt have made a big difference. The Ravens had no answers all night long on both offense and defense. Time to call your little brother Johnny and ask for help...

[cobrajet]

No, he is not 100% and he was good against the run. Our pass defense was horrible all the way around. I thought Ed Reed had a bad night though.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

Ray was bad last night but so was everyone else. I don't think we're a better defense than when Ray is at 100%, which I doubt he was last night.

[SouthsideNCRavens]

Just because Ray Lewis was there, means nothing. Our fanbase is as bi-polar as our team is; we've had days where we won and, say, Ed Reed performed well and we went off the lid, screaming and chanting his name, now just as many, some who praised him then, are cursing him down. Ray Lewis did his best, but the problem is some of you put it on him to be the game-changing person, and that's not who he is. He is a leader, and like Terrell Suggs said, "this is a reality check"; he's not a God. He's a middle linebacker in his final years. Does not mean he isn't good. Can you blame Ray Lewis for the lack of pressure given on Rivers? No. Can you blame Ray Lewis for Joe Flacco throwing interceptions consecutively? No. Can you blame Ray Lewis for Ray Rice dropping a ball he had inside his grip? No.

There were a myriad of problems last night, and they weren't all based on Ray Lewis being there. All you're doing is trying to find a reason. No, it's the truth. We acted like this when he was there, we've won when he was there this season, and lost when he was there this season. If I handed you a factsheet about last night's game on the Ravens' performance, all it would say is "Ravens' got their asses handed to them", because that's exactly what all happened. We did not beat ourselves, and Ray Lewis did not beat us; the San Diego Chargers' beat us, on all cylinders.

Stop trying to make excuses, and accept that we lost as a team. Stop trying to blame the person who's been here since our beginning, and has led us to a Superbowl. Our only superbowl. I am disgusted in this fairweather idiocy.