Is Ray Rice Our Version Of Heinz Ward?

[redrum52]

No my point is the time period and how much more passing has been used lately. Also, the fact they have more rings usually helps with HOF matters. Hes had a great career but like others said I don't know about first ballot.

[PurpleCorsair]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1323646057' post='903624']

Only to a Ravens or Browns fans...but not objective NFL fans.
[/quote]

Mark Clatyon
Mark Duper
Cris Carter
Andre Reed

Just to name a few guys (who are eligible for the hall).

[Tank 92]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1323643820' post='903552']
Hines Ward is a 1st Ballot hall of famer, Rice has a long way to go before he gets compared to Ward in any way. The Ravens fans only hate the guy so much because he has owned them for years, and[i][b] jacked up so many of their safeties and CBs[/b][/i]...all while having a blast and playing the game like a kid. Its clueless and classless to bash him because he is in the twilight of his career...every single player eventually has diminishing skills and retires. True NFL fans respect quality opponents....and don't bother with the "dirty player" responses.
[/quote]


The only players he jacks up are the defenseless ones that aren't looking. He is a true [i]<jerk>[/i]. And that's not just the opinion of Ravens fans, anyone outside of pburgh would say the same. He doesn't play the game like a kid, he plays it like the cheap shot artist he is. It's a shame, because he does have some talent catching the ball. HOF? I don't think so.

Now here is a good, clean hit, face to face, man to man.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj0hcW29Pyg[/media]

[baroquenspirit]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1323647839' post='903661']


The only players he jacks up are the defenseless ones that aren't looking. He is a true [i]<jerk>[/i]. And that's not just the opinion of Ravens fans, anyone outside of pburgh would say the same. He doesn't play the game like a kid, he plays it like the cheap shot artist he is. It's a shame, because he does have some talent catching the ball. HOF? I don't think so.

Now here is a good, clean hit, face to face, man to man.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj0hcW29Pyg[/media]
[/quote]

Didn't bother to watch it...when Hines makes the Hall will you come on here and acknowledge that your posts on NFL subjects have no credibility? You should.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1323650925' post='903738']

Didn't bother to watch it...when Hines makes the Hall will you come on here and acknowledge that your posts on NFL subjects have no credibility? You should.
[/quote]

hiney, HOF= pipe dream

And you really should watch it. And send it to hiney too!

[Fricknmaniac]

Hines Ward will have a case to make the HoF, but numbers alone don't get you in there. Just ask Cris Carter and Steve Tasker. They were solid every day players that put up good stats day in and day out. But they never really were the big name players that one usually sees getting elected into the Hall.

Ward might get in in a year when the first year class is really weak. It's not something I'd write off completely, but it's not something I'd bank on either. Yes, he has 2 Super Bowl rings, but more is needed to get into the HoF than to just be a position player on two Super Bowl winning teams with good stats.

[ball hawkin 20]

Jamal Charles, Fred Davis, MJD, Forte, AP, Shady, Run DMC, Frank Gore, Arian Foster and Steven Jackson are all better RBs then Rice

[baroquenspirit]

[quote name='Fricknmaniac' timestamp='1323651583' post='903762']Hines Ward will have a case to make the HoF, but numbers alone don't get you in there. Just ask Cris Carter and Steve Tasker. They were solid every day players that put up good stats day in and day out. But they never really were the big name players that one usually sees getting elected into the Hall. Ward might get in in a year when the first year class is really weak. It's not something I'd write off completely, but it's not something I'd bank on either. Yes, he has 2 Super Bowl rings, but more is needed to get into the HoF than to just be a position player on two Super Bowl winning teams with good stats.[/quote]

too funny, the guy is in the top ten in receptions, top 15 in yards, passed Irivin this season, if he plays one more year, he make the top ten in yds, 2 SB rings, stud blocker (ask ed "he rung my bell plenty" reed), heck of all teams the Ravens should see him as a HOFamer, he made a lot of hay against them through the years.

[Neil]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1323645380' post='903606']
Fair enough, but his numbers are better than Swann and Stallworth who are already both in...he is a HOFamer.
[/quote]
I have my doubts. It's not like you can just compare numbers across eras and decide who should get in and who shouldn't.

Ward might get in one of these days in a slow year. I suppose he has the fact that he's a Steeler which might help him, but if he gets in before Andre Reed, it will be a profound injustice.

[BmoreRavens732]

And I still cant figure out why pittsburgh fans are on here?

[redrum52]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1323656975' post='903904']

too funny, the guy is in the top ten in receptions, top 15 in yards, passed Irivin this season, if he plays one more year, he make the top ten in yds, 2 SB rings, stud blocker (ask ed "he rung my bell plenty" reed), heck of all teams the Ravens should see him as a HOFamer, he made a lot of hay against them through the years.
[/quote]


Too funny you can't read... He didnt deny him making the Hall, he denied him making it first ballot. Neither him or myself said he wouldn't make it, just not his first try. The waiting list is a little crowded and you need to be VERY special player to get in first try. Hines as I've said has had a great career but I don't know if its first ballot great.

[Ravenslifer]

I really don't see the case for Ward. Derrick Mason has over 12000 yards receiving and almost as many TDs as Ward. Maybe in 50 years he'll get voted in by the Veteran's Committee or whatever it's called in the NFL. But if you consider all of the receivers/tight ends that have played in the NFL since 1995, then Tony Gonzalez, Randy Moss, Marvin Harrison, and Terrell Owens already have better numbers than Ward, and assuming they don't get injured or retire early, Reggie Wayne, Chad Ochocinco, Steve Smith, and Donald Driver will all probably pass him in touchdowns, and all but Driver will pass him in yards. Andre Johnson is already at over 9000 yards for his career and will certainly pass Ward. Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin have a great shot to pass him, and so could Santana Moss. Jason Witten, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson and Santonio Holmes. Not that everyone will do it, but passing statistics are becoming easier to gain, and Ward honestly looks like he's done. At this pace he'll finish short of 500 yards this season. If he gets 1000 more in his career he'll be at 13000 yards. And then all of these guys who played in the same era will pass him. He's been good for a long time, but I don't see that being the same thing as HOF worthy.

[Neil]

[quote name='BmoreRavens732' timestamp='1323657120' post='903908']
And I still cant figure out why pittsburgh fans are on here?
[/quote]
To talk football?

[BmoreRavens732]

only steeler fan on here I believe just wants to talk football and doesnt troll is that wallace guy

[Neil]

[quote name='ball hawkin 20' timestamp='1323656173' post='903893']
Jamal Charles, Fred Davis, MJD, Forte, AP, Shady, Run DMC, Frank Gore, Arian Foster and Steven Jackson are all better RBs then Rice
[/quote]
I disagree. Granted, it's hard to separate by the play of the RB from the play of the line (and Rice has the advantage of having a superb run-blocking line), but Ray Rice's ability to withstand contact and make stuff happen in the passing game puts him in the conversation as an elite back.

[Neil]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1323657322' post='903915']
I really don't see the case for Ward. Derrick Mason has over 12000 yards receiving and almost as many TDs as Ward. Maybe in 50 years he'll get voted in by the Veteran's Committee or whatever it's called in the NFL. But if you consider all of the receivers/tight ends that have played in the NFL since 1995, then Tony Gonzalez, Randy Moss, Marvin Harrison, and Terrell Owens already have better numbers than Ward, and assuming they don't get injured or retire early, Reggie Wayne, Chad Ochocinco, Steve Smith, and Donald Driver will all probably pass him in touchdowns, and all but Driver will pass him in yards. Andre Johnson is already at over 9000 yards for his career and will certainly pass Ward. Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin have a great shot to pass him, and so could Santana Moss. Jason Witten, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson and Santonio Holmes. Not that everyone will do it, but passing statistics are becoming easier to gain, and Ward honestly looks like he's done. At this pace he'll finish short of 500 yards this season. If he gets 1000 more in his career he'll be at 13000 yards. And then all of these guys who played in the same era will pass him. He's been good for a long time, but I don't see that being the same thing as HOF worthy.
[/quote]
That's true. As the passing game has become more important, the numbers of receivers like those you mentioned above are going to make Ward's look a little weak. People will look back at the Steeler teams of Ward's era, and they'll send Roethlisberger to the Hall, they'll send Bettis one of these days, and they'll put in some of that defence. Ward could easily end up on the outside looking in with Derrick Mason, and I don't think that'd be a big injustice.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='BmoreRavens732' timestamp='1323657550' post='903922']
only steeler fan on here I believe just wants to talk football and doesnt troll is that wallace guy
[/quote]
Eh, he talks football but definitely does his fair share of "trolling" as well.

[BmoreRavens732]

Yeah but ill talk to the wallace guy befor the rest

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Neil' timestamp='1323658094' post='903933']
That's true. As the passing game has become more important, the numbers of receivers like those you mentioned above are going to make Ward's look a little weak. People will look back at the Steeler teams of Ward's era, and they'll send Roethlisberger to the Hall, they'll send Bettis one of these days, and they'll put in some of that defence. Ward could easily end up on the outside looking in with Derrick Mason, and I don't think that'd be a big injustice.
[/quote]

Exactly. Nobody's questioning that these guys, Ward, Mason, Amani Toomer, and others at a lot of other positions, weren't great. But to put someone in the Hall of Fame, you're talking Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, Fred Biletnikoff, Charlie Joiner, Lynn Swann, Art Monk, Michael Irvin, etc. - every one of these guys, you mention his name to even a casual fan, and they'll know who you're talking about and remember how great they were. There's the Hall of Fame, and then there's being very good, and that's not a bad place to be.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='BmoreRavens732' timestamp='1323658291' post='903937']
Yeah but ill talk to the wallace guy befor the rest
[/quote]
I hear ya...he still looks to ruffle feathers whenever he can, though. The dude that was really the classy Pitt fan was Wardy, but hes long gone.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1323658738' post='903949']
I hear ya...he still looks to ruffle feathers whenever he can, though. The dude that was really the classy Pitt fan was Wardy, but hes long gone.
[/quote]

Didn't he get booted from this forum though for saying something "classless"?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1323659261' post='903960']

Didn't he get booted from this forum though for saying something "classless"?
[/quote]
I dont actually even know the reason, but I will say if it was "classless", it was an exception to his normal postings.

[Fricknmaniac]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1323656975' post='903904']

too funny, the guy is in the top ten in receptions, top 15 in yards, passed Irivin this season, if he plays one more year, he make the top ten in yds, 2 SB rings, stud blocker (ask ed "he rung my bell plenty" reed), heck of all teams the Ravens should see him as a HOFamer, he made a lot of hay against them through the years.
[/quote]

Cris Carter held the single season reception record for two seasons.

He is also 4th in career receptions, 8th in receiving yards, and 4th in receiving touchdowns. Two people passed him in receptions after he retired. Four people passed him in career receiving yards after he retired. Two people passed him in career receiving touchdowns after he retired. So he retired 2nd in receptions, 4th in receiving yards, and 2nd in receiving touchdowns.

He's been available to go into the HoF since 2007, but hasn't. (He is among the semi-finalists for this year.)

So if Cris Carter didn't make it into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot and his stats are amazingly better than Ward's with the exception of 2 Super Bowl rings, why do you think it's such an open and shut case for Ward getting into the Hall of Fame. It seems really suspect after looking at those numbers.

[berad]

This topic is going wayyy off course.

Anyways, being a HOFer means being a dominant player at your position for an extended period of time - Walter Payton, Dan Marino, Ray Lewis, etc. Ward, Mason, Donald Driver etc would be in the hall of pretty good. Those players would never make it over guys like Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, or players like that.

Anyways again, Rice will never be as hated in Pittsburgh as Ward is here. Ray Rice is not a dirty player.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1323660673' post='903985']
This topic is going wayyy off course.

Anyways, being a HOFer means being a dominant player at your position for an extended period of time - Walter Payton, Dan Marino, Ray Lewis, etc. Ward, Mason, Donald Driver etc would be in the hall of pretty good. Those players would never make it over guys like Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, or players like that.

Anyways again, Rice will never be as hated in Pittsburgh as Ward is here. Ray Rice is not a dirty player.
[/quote]


Shut er' down!

And if anyone ever again thinks of using that guy's name in the title of a topic, please reconsider.

[Neil]

Yeah. It's pretty hard for RBs to take cheap shots at defenders. That said, Little Ray does like to talk a bit, but I don't think he's the Steeler-killer that Ward was for years against the Ravens.

No, the guy who has put the dagger into the Steelers would probably have to be the graduate of Ball So Hard University.

[frezeal33]

[quote name='Dudeman' timestamp='1323562508' post='901937']
This title definitely goes to Suggs. Thank the football Gods he is on our side!
[/quote]
I agree.. What would we do without Mr. Sizzle?

[RavenousBG]

Fans will probably hate Sizzle more than Rice. Think about the things that Sizzle says. 'God may own his soul but his @$$ belongs to me'. He's been hitting Big Ben for a few years now and will be for years to come. So I would say that if Suggs isn't the most hated Raven, he will be shortly.

As far as the Steelers team, I once heard on a Pittsburgh radio station and again on ESPN radio I think, that the Steelers have a large poster of Ray Lewis in their locker room. He is the only opposing player that is afforded this. I can't remember if they said there is a big red cross sign on Ray or it says Pittsburgh Enemy No. 1 or something like that. But Ray has been the most hated/respected Raven by the Steelers for years if you believe that story. I heard it so I don't how true it is.

Suggs seems to be the next in line though.
Ball So Hard University

[baroquenspirit]

[quote name='BmoreRavens732' timestamp='1323657120' post='903908']
And I still cant figure out why pittsburgh fans are on here?
[/quote]

For the same reason that when I do drop by I always find six threads about the Steelers and 25 guys with their names based on their hatred for the Steelers,[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/banana1.gif[/img]

[1/28/01]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1323665078' post='904075']


For the same reason that when I do drop by I always find six threads about the Steelers and 25 guys with their names based on their hatred for the Steelers,[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/banana1.gif[/img]
[/quote]
Yeah, I mean, no Steeler forum would ever have topics devoted to their rival. Never!!!