Do The Ravens Have Enough Offense?

[RavenousBG]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1323482918' post='901418']
I am rather long winded, I know, but my overall point is that, for whatever reason, we are not going to be a team that puts up 30+ points consistently. And that's okay. Rodgers may put up 35 points a game, but he HAS to because his defense gives up almost as many. Our defense is one of the best. What they need is an offense that can maintain TOP and avoid turnovers. My problem with the Air Coryell system that Cam Cameron runs is that it's designed to score [b]lots[/b] of points very quickly, and by definition does NOT emphasize TOP and is very prone to turnovers and 3-and-outs. So it bothers me that we aren't consistently scoring upwards of 30 points a game, because that means the offense is not working properly. I think that's what Steve Young is alluding to; that, and that we are abysmal in the red zone.

Or here's another car analogy: IMO, what our offense is a Honda Civic. A nice, reliable car that has little flash but lots of substance, that is never going to win a race but can travel long distances on one tank, won't break down, and most importantly, gets the job done for whatever you need - groceries, hauling the kids around, work, school, whatever. Cam Cameron, however, is behind the wheel, and somehow he's decided that he's Mario Andretti and he's driving a Bugatti Veyron (fastest commercially available car in the world, for those who don't know).
[/quote]

Maybe it's more like a Honda Accord. But I hear what you're saying. I do think that Torrey Smith is listed as 6'1". But yes, we don't have the big red zone wideouts. But we should line up Dixon or Pitta split out more.

The offense seems like it should be able to score at will but at different times this year I have thought the play calling was horrendous. It's more than just the lack of carries for Ray Rice too. It sometimes lacked imagination early in the year.

However, I think we score enough and with the combo of a good defense we can hang with anyone without worrying about scoring upwards of 30. But if the defense has a bad day... The Accord can't keep up with that Bugatti

[Wallace17_OutRunMe]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1323485234' post='901464']


I know you are a Stealers fan, so i know you might be a bit slow. But i have seen enough of him in the preseason to see that the guy has skill. I said i trust him but i said he needs some EXP. He has great pocket awareness and is very mobile. Also he is pretty accurate, atleast compared to most of the starting QBs that are playing now.
[/quote]Playing in preseason is one thing where defenses are vanilla and you are playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers and there is no true game planning is one thing, playing in December and January when you are chasing the Lombardi Trophy against teams starting defenses is another.

[Fricknmaniac]

The thing about the Ravens offense is they have all the talent to be a great offense. Bruising fullback, nimble and explosive running back, deep ball quarterback, across the middle possession wide receiver, speedy deep threat wide receiver, two great tight ends to open up the field, three pro-bowl linemen, one more who is going to make the pro-bowl this year for the first time, and another that would if he hadn't missed some games. The problem is the offensive coordinator. We all know that Cam Cameron has lost us games this year and damn near lost us a few more because he decided he wanted to dictate how the offense played, instead of responding to the defense.

It's the exact same way with the defense. Last year under Mattison they weren't as aggressive with the pass rush and went into prevent too much in games, which resulted in a ridiculous number of blown fourth quarter leads and the fewest sacks in franchise history. This year the defense has basically the exact same talent back, but under Pagano the pass rush is more aggressive, they lead the league in sacks, and they've only blown two fourth quarter leads (and the one against Arizona shouldn't really count, because it was only 3 points and the offensive had to come back from so far down).

[Ravens Lover]

If the Ravens can win a Super Bowl with the 2000 Ravens offence, we definitely have enough

[RavenousBG]

[quote name='Wallace17_OutRunMe' timestamp='1323484937' post='901455']
What has Tyrod Taylor shown you and proven to you thus far in order for you to trust him if Flacco goes down?? The guy has never even played a snap I believe until last week when he came in against the Browns am I correct?? Just wondering
[/quote]
Because we have no one else. The coaches and Front Office believe in him because they didn't look for a vet outside Bulger. What we saw during the preseason was nice but what the coaches saw during practice much have been better.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Wallace17_OutRunMe' timestamp='1323486261' post='901487']
Playing in preseason is one thing where defenses are vanilla and you are playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers and there is no true game planning is one thing, playing in December and January when you are chasing the Lombardi Trophy against teams starting defenses is another.
[/quote]


Im not disagreeing with you, My whole point was to say they need to have Taylor get some Exp if we run up the score against the COLTS.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1323486724' post='901499']


Im not disagreeing with you, My whole point was to say they need to have Taylor get some Exp if we run up the score against the COLTS.
[/quote]


No subbing for Joe in this game. 8 straight losses to indy? I think we pound them, and then pound them again. And if there is still time on the clock, pound em' some more!!!

[CharlesK]

How do you keep an elite defense elite? You keep them off the field as much as possible. Therefore it is in the Ravens interest to have long drawn out drives that end up either scoring points or at the very least giving the opposing team crummy field position. The Ravens are good on offense but they should never attempt to gun it out with NE or NO or GB. If you dance to the other guy's tune in football then you are setting yourself up for failure. Last year in the Playoffs the Jets forced both NE and Indy to play their style of game which was slow and methodical and low scoring. They beat two teams in their home stadiums, both of which were better teams than they were. Food for thought.

[FerrariFan87]

We've had red zone woes yet again this season, BUT we're #6 in the NFL in points per game (24.7), which is probably one of the more relevant offensive statistics (yes, I know defensive scores count, but still).

[RavenousBG]

[quote name='Fricknmaniac' timestamp='1323486641' post='901493']
The thing about the Ravens offense is they have all the talent to be a great offense. Bruising fullback, nimble and explosive running back, deep ball quarterback, across the middle possession wide receiver, speedy deep threat wide receiver, two great tight ends to open up the field, three pro-bowl linemen, one more who is going to make the pro-bowl this year for the first time, and another that would if he hadn't missed some games. The problem is the offensive coordinator. We all know that Cam Cameron has lost us games this year and damn near lost us a few more because he decided he wanted to dictate how the offense played, instead of responding to the defense.

It's the exact same way with the defense. Last year under Mattison they weren't as aggressive with the pass rush and went into prevent too much in games, which resulted in a ridiculous number of blown fourth quarter leads and the fewest sacks in franchise history. This year the defense has basically the exact same talent back, but under Pagano the pass rush is more aggressive, they lead the league in sacks, and they've only blown two fourth quarter leads (and the one against Arizona shouldn't really count, because it was only 3 points and the offensive had to come back from so far down).
[/quote]
May be nitpicking but we don't have the exact same talent. Pagano is the man but he does get to play with a better Kruger, fully healed Webb, effective C.Williams, rookie beast McPheenom, rookie playmaker J. Smith, and the Angry Man himself Pollard. So I wouldn't say the exact same talent but Pagano knows how to use it and has confidence in the players that Mattison didn't. Pagano is 1000 times better than Mattison.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='RavenousBG' timestamp='1323488759' post='901534']
May be nitpicking but we don't have the exact same talent. Pagano is the man but he does get to play with a better Kruger, fully healed Webb, effective C.Williams, rookie beast McPheenom, rookie playmaker J. Smith, and the Angry Man himself Pollard. So I wouldn't say the exact same talent but Pagano knows how to use it and has confidence in the players that Mattison didn't. Pagano is 1000 times better than Mattison.
[/quote]

Kruger was here for two years under Mattison. Suggs might be having his best year ever under Pagano. What Pagano has done with this defense with such a short offseason is amazing. Another example from another team would be Alex Smith. Until this year, you wouldn't want this guy as a waterboy. Now that Jim has him playing in his system, he doesn't look half bad. He's got the highest qb rating of his career, and actually looks confident when he plays. Webb and Williams were also here under Mattison. I think a lot of the defensive success really comes down to Pagano understanding how to maximize guys's strengths in the same way Jim Harbaugh maximized Alex Smith's. We're not exactly the same, but I think personally that we're better on offense. We certainly have more playmakers at the WR and TE positions. But I think the offense as a whole is worse than it was last year, and I think it's because Cam keeps trying to dial up big pass plays that aren't effective given the personnel we have. And I still think Cam is, if nothing else, one of the worst Red Zone play callers in the NFL. Plus, he's the one who got the two guys who helped Joe the most last year kicked out the door.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1323484258' post='901441']


Not to be unsociable, [u][b]but who cares? I know I don't come here to read about the squealers[/b][/u].
[/quote]

i agree big time! this Wallace cat lives in here on our boards INSTEAD of his own steeler board and we're not even playing them. smh!

but, to answer the thread question. YES! the Ravens have enough offense.

think about it: Flacco, Rice, Williams, Leach, Boldin, T. Smith, L. Evans, T. Doss, L. Williams, Dickson, Pitta. the offense is there!!! that is not the question with the Ravens offense. the question should be... [i][b]"Does Cam know how to utilize his offensive personnel properly and is he using them to their full capability?" [/b][/i]i would say NO! if he did..we would be throwing to our 6'4 and 6'5 TEs (tall targets) near the goaline. or, he wouldn't call a QB sneak with a slow QB while his faster and swifter rookie (Tyrod Taylor) who can do that stuff in his sleep is sitting on the bench. he wouldn't keep calling the same old predictable b.s. year after year and game after game. and he would definitely feed the beast (Ray Rice) more than 5 carries in a game! smh! i could go on and on about how Cam fails to utilize the Ravens offensive talent the right way. Torrey and Lee are speed burners....period! but, don't just use them to run deep routes. bring them across the middle more on slants and drags. use those bunch sets more for them to get pics and rubs to get open. run 2 TE sets more to pound the rock and to pass from. and...play aggressive! that gives your offense confidence to know that you trust in their abilites.

~Mili

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1323490630' post='901575']

i agree big time! this Wallace cat lives in here on our boards INSTEAD of his own steeler board and we're not even playing them. smh!

but, to answer the thread question. YES! the Ravens have enough offense.

think about it: Flacco, Rice, Williams, Leach, Boldin, T. Smith, L. Evans, T. Doss, L. Williams, Dickson, Pitta. the offense is there!!! that is not the question with the Ravens offense. the question should be... [i][b]"Does Cam know how to utilize his offensive personnel properly and is he using them to their full capability?" [/b][/i]i would say NO! if he did..we would be throwing to our 6'4 and 6'5 TEs (tall targets) near the goaline. or, he wouldn't call a QB sneak with a slow QB while his faster and swifter rookie (Tyrod Taylor) who can do that stuff in his sleep is sitting on the bench. he wouldn't keep calling the same old predictable b.s. year after year and game after game. and he would definitely feed the beast (Ray Rice) more than 5 carries in a game! smh! i could go on and on about how Cam fails to utilize the Ravens offensive talent the right way. Torrey and Lee are speed burners....period! but, [b]don't just use them to run deep routes. bring them across the middle more on slants and drags[/b]. use those bunch sets more for them to get pics and rubs to get open. run 2 TE sets more to pound the rock and to pass from. and...play aggressive! that gives your offense confidence to know that you trust in their abilites.


~Mili
[/quote]

It's funny you should mention that, b/c if you watch a lot of Torrey's Maryland highlights, he was used that way most of the time, catching screens and slants and then working his way up the field, using his acceleration and agility to get by guys. But Cam is Cam.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1323491240' post='901584']

It's funny you should mention that, [u][b]b/c if you watch a lot of Torrey's Maryland highlights, he was used that way most of the time[/b][/u], catching screens and slants and then working his way up the field, using his acceleration and agility to get by guys. But Cam is Cam.
[/quote]

i know Rlifer. i am a HUGE Virgnia Tech fan (ACC) and whenever they played Maryland, Torrey gave them fits with those slants, screens and drags across the middle. ugggh! lol! now that he is in the NFL...Cam has not utilized his abilities properly imo. he needs to go back and watch game film and see why Ozzie drafted this cat! lol!

~Mili

[Ravenseconbeast]

Lee Evans. If only he can be what he was advertised. We can be dangerous. So far, he has shown nothing to upgrade our pedestrian offense.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='Wallace17_OutRunMe' timestamp='1323484937' post='901455']
What has Tyrod Taylor shown you and proven to you thus far in order for you to trust him if Flacco goes down?? The guy has never even played a snap I believe until last week when he came in against the Browns am I correct?? Just wondering[/quote]
I trust him as a backup QB. Lets be honest. Any team that gets their starting QB down doesnt have a chance in Superbowl vs. Packers.

[neoi78]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1323481100' post='901391']
for instance, the only receiver we have over 6 feet tall, besides the tight ends, is Doss, and he doesn't see the field. We have a bunch of smaller, shiftier receivers that don't make consistent deep threats, IMO, [/quote]

HAHA are you serious? Q, Smith, and Williams are ALL over 6ft! Evans is the only guy under 6ft. Dude.. do some research before you post.

=)

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1323500746' post='901629']
Lee Evans. If only he can be what he was advertised. We can be dangerous. So far, he has shown nothing to upgrade our pedestrian offense.
[/quote]
Please lay off Evans and give him a fair chance. He'll get back in the swing of things and be a WEAPON for Flacco. They connected during the preseason and are just now getting reconnected. With Evans' ankle healthy, we WILL be dangerous. Lee and Torrey on the outside is going to strike fear into the hearts of D Coordinators.

[Hjulmann]

About the steelers thing, we've proved ourselves better than them twice this season. Houston too for that matter, and they had Matt Schaub in that game.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='neoi78' timestamp='1323507312' post='901644']
HAHA are you serious? Q, Smith, and Williams are ALL over 6ft! Evans is the only guy under 6ft. Dude.. do some research before you post.

=)
[/quote]

They are like 6 feet tall or 6'1". Q is listed at 6"1. Do you want me to get nickpicky? Q measured in at the combine at 6 feet, .5 inches. Torrey measured in at 6 feet, 7/8 inches. LaQuan measured in at 6 feet, 1 inch. So you are right, they all measured in at just over six feet. Barely. I was using a rough estimate, thinking of comparing them to San Diego's receivers, who are all 6'4" or 6'5". They are not TALL enough to run the vertical offense consistently. And I think most posters on this board get my point. But if you want me to be completely specific, I will do it, just for you.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

We have the pieces but we've definitely seen so far this season that a lack of cohesion has really cost them at times. When they're all on the same page (and we've seen that they are getting to that stage recently) we have plenty.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1323509514' post='901649']
Please lay off Evans and give him a fair chance. He'll get back in the swing of things and be a WEAPON for Flacco. They connected during the preseason and are just now getting reconnected. With Evans' ankle healthy, we WILL be dangerous. Lee and Torrey on the outside is going to strike fear into the hearts of D Coordinators.[/quote]

Uh..that is what i was saying? Evans is the key whether we get onto the next level. The fact is he hasnt shown us anything yet.

[OUravensfan]

[quote name='Wallace17_OutRunMe' timestamp='1323486261' post='901487']
Playing in preseason is one thing where defenses are vanilla and you are playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers and there is no true game planning is one thing, playing in December and January when you are chasing the Lombardi Trophy against teams starting defenses is another.
[/quote]

Yea again I agree with you, Tryrod looked good in the [b]pre-season[/b] but lets be honest, most rookies struggle in the playoffs their first time around. Absolutely don't want Tyrod playing the the playoffs, I'd feel better if Marc Bulger was still the backup.

[OUravensfan]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1323491240' post='901584']

It's funny you should mention that, b/c if you watch a lot of Torrey's Maryland highlights, he was used that way most of the time, catching screens and slants and then working his way up the field, using his acceleration and agility to get by guys. But Cam is Cam.
[/quote]

I love it and hate it when people get on Cam, because it hurts me to think that we could be so much better on offense with a capable OC that utilizes all his weapons efficiently.

[The Raven]

I think that by the time the playoffs roll around we'll have plenty of offense. It's taken some time, but this offense is starting to gel. By the playoffs our offense will be good to go!

Do we have enough offense now? I think so. I'd like to have a more consistent offense, but this offense has improved every game since Seattle.

[Militant X 1]

the Ravens offense is starting to peak at the right time! sure, earlier in the season they looked down right pathetic. but, since then...our boys have and are greatly improving week after week. those 3 letdown losses are now waaaaaay back in the rear view mirror. they've moved on past that! the Ravens have ripped off 3 str8 wins and are looking better offensively. it seems like it just took time for Flacco and all of his new toys to gel and mesh together. i really want our Ravens to come out hot on all cylinders tomorrow vs the colts to advance to 10-3. and then....make the journey to San Diego to take care of the chargers and to advance to 11-3. they need to...and they WILL...show the nfl world that they are no joke and the team that NO TEAM wants to face in the playoffs....at home or on the road!

~Mili

[cobrajet]

I understand what he is saying, but we have the talent here to put up the points. That is why I will never concede defeat. Can we beat the Packers this year in Festivus Maximus? Yes, because they are beatable and I have feeling they do not want it to the Ravens!