Possible Cam Cameron Replacements?

[nyc9192]

[quote name='BenDufusberger' timestamp='1322458032' post='888981']
Here's what I wonder about : Let's say that upper management and ownership have already decided they'd like to make a move at OC after the season. Now , suppose the Ravens win the SB. What then?

I have to think that a SB victory would buy Cam a one year pardon , and maybe even two. How could they fire the OC that just led the team to a SB victory ?

For people who'd like to see Cam replaced , this is going to be an uncomfortable scenario to think about.
[/quote]
I still think we get a new OC.Even if Cam wins a superbowl, he doesn't give us the best chance to repeat.It's the argument of "if it aint broke don't fix it vs getting better every year"[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/th_gardensmiley.gif[/img]

[True]

SB win or not he should go. The Ravens let go of their QB in 2000 they can get rid of an OC.

Norv Turner is someone I'd like to get when he gets fired since he his very familiar with the style of offense the Ravens run and could fit in quickly.

I like Rick Dennison (OC of the Texans) because while Gary Kubiak runs the play calling, the style of offense they run they have a great pass/run ratio which is the balance I'd want my OC to have drilled into his head, not forced to adjust to.

Also possible Joe Philibin (OC of the Packers) because while Mike McCarthy calls the plays, I like that he's worked in a successful offensive system where they can utilitze the talent on offense and make it reach good precision. He worked with Aaron Rodgers when he sat in his first 3 years and redid his throwing motion and mechanics. I would like to see what he can do with Joe Flacco as well.

[bpytnjr58]

After yesterday Turner should be available sometime after January 1st.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1322462170' post='889007']
That would be the Best of Both Worlds Ray and Ed could win a title together... Cam becomes the "Hot" coordinator mentioned in HC discussions again... Some team either offers another HC chance or more $$$ to be their OC. Ravens get a clean break from Cam Cameron... Lol
[/quote]

It would be the absolute perfect scenario. Except we'd definitely lose Ray to retirement and maybe even Ed.

[Dfence4champs2052]

Who here really believes Billick would swallow his ego and come work for someone on the team he LED to a superbowl???? I don't see it happening especially with players from his days still around. Not gonna happen.

[JamesRules]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1322458326' post='888986']
Here is my wish-list:
[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][b]Josh McDaniels OC St. Louis:[/b][/size][/font][/color]
He might be #1 on my list. Currently the OC of St. Lois, but if they end up with the worst record in the NFL, I think management might be cleaning house starting with the HC. McDaniels has been given nothing to work with other than Bradford, so I can't really blame him for the offensive woes. Theres no doubt the guy was downright pathetic as a HC and drafter, but offensively, hes truly brilliant. Tom Brady broke the TD record with McDaniles, and lets not forget this guy had Kyle Orton on pace to break Dan Marino'a record. Just look at Orton now. On top of that, this guy brings a special swagger on offense. He definitely takes from his former mentor Bill Belichick in terms of aggressiveness. Hes doesn't play not to lose. The guy is super aggressive, and Flacco and our offense are in desperate need of swagger and aggressiveness. People will point out that he doesn't run the ball very often, but thats more a product of him never really having a back he trusted.

[/quote]
You're joking, right?

[Jamal]

Why are people mentioning Billick??

lol

[Jamal]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1322499083' post='889255']
Ehhh, I still dont trust him to pound the ball when its late in November and December in the rain/snow. And I really dont trust Flacco to run a spread offense and chuck the ball 30+ times a game. It doesnt play to our strengths on defense or the running game.
[/quote]
Thats a misconception about Flacco imo.

I think the spread offense is actually when Flacco is at his best. Flacco is exactly the opposite of a game manager. Hes not the kind of guy who could consistently have great games when you run on 1st and 2nd down. He needs to pass about 25-30 times, because it gets him in a good rhythm.

As for running the ball, McDaniels has been calling a more balanced offense this year. But the Rams are so terrible that they usually fall behind pretty quick. At that point you have no choice but to pass.S-Jax has been banged up, and missed a couple games, yet hes still in the top 10 in rushing.

Like someone else has said, McDaniels is not a "my way or the highway" guy. He comes from the NE BB tree, where you adopt to your personnel.

[Dudeman]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1322508910' post='889390']
Why are people mentioning Billick??

lol
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly, and wasn't this thread already made?

Look, bottom line with Billick is he couldn't gives us an offense in the top 20. He couldn't develop a quarterback or a receiver, and he made poor decisions when he was the offensive coordinator The only problem with Cam is we haven't really broken the top 10. The only way we could do better "hypothetically" on offense would be to get an OC from one of the top 5 ranked offenses within the past 3 years (Saints, Packers, Patriots, and maybe Chargers) or to continue improving with what we have.

But the transition to a top 5 offense involves key personnel as well as scheme, and a shift in the culture/philosophy going into the play-calls. Basically the difference between efficient/ball control to spread/rhythm passing. This doesn't happen overnight, and certainly takes more time to install than 2-3 years. Continuity from season to season, coach to player, scheme to personnel are all things a top 5 offense has in common. Peyton Manning, Drew Brees (as a Saint), Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers, and Ben Rothlisberger have enjoyed sustained success with their offensive system because of these kinds of continuities. Having players building chemistry over time with each other, as well as coaches/system are rare because the team needs to be successful as it builds/grows. When a team misses the play-offs for consecutive seasons then the rumors of a coaching controversy starts to swirl to the point of becoming a distraction. It still amazes me that we can debate keeping a coach of Cam's ilk in the midst of a winning season.

Basically, what I am saying is that we are what we are, and this is the kind of ball that we play. We scream our heads off for our defense, and we want a defense that dominates. We want a run game that pounds, and an offense that scores. It doesn't have to be pretty, as long as we just WIN.

I have made this point before as well that being a top 5 offense is usually at the expense of having a top 5 defense. So which is it that the fans really want to have? If you had to choose having a top 5 offense, or a top 5 defense what would you pick?

For me I love the defense we have built, and I find myself pleasantly surprised by what we are growing into as an offense. We have quite a tandem at TE, and a WR core that will only get deeper as health improves. The O-line is much improved with the addition of Mckinnie, and the return of Grubbs. Lastly, the final piece of the puzzle is a young QB that can make all the throws, especially if he has time in the pocket. The key to the whole thing really is Flacco, and I believe that in the next 3-5 years we will be talking about him being one of the games best at his position.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1322508910' post='889390']
Why are people mentioning Billick??

lol
[/quote]

Well our former OC Rick Neuheisel has just been ousted from UCLA. There's another option. : )

That guy is such a waste as a coach.

[D_UP]

Well I hope we win bowl so there no need to bring in replacement the very notion of needing replacement is to think we won't win the Super Bowl.

[JamesRules]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1322501822' post='889275']

The thing about McDaniels is that people say he prefers to throw, but looking at his games, I think most of those attempts came from the fact that the Broncos were playing from behind most of the time. I think it's the same thing in St. Louis now, they are behind so much that they have to throw the ball. The most important thing though, is that he's NOT Cam Cameron. McDaniels is much more adaptable, and he seems to try and tailor his system to fit his personnel rather than the Cameron approach of finding ways to fit guys into his system. Even if he were brought in as purely the QB coach, he has a much better track record than Cam Cameron.
[/quote]
No matter how you phrase it, Josh will always be the worst offensive coordinator/ coach of all time.

[i]<Deleted>[/i]

[Alexir]

[quote name='JamesRules' timestamp='1322533469' post='889728']
No matter how you phrase it, Josh will always be the worst offensive coordinator/ coach of all time.
[/quote]

Josh McDaniels is the worst offensive coordinator of all time?......

Righttttttttt.[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/268213.gif[/img]

[JamesRules]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1322533565' post='889730']

Josh McDaniels is the worst offensive coordinator of all time?......

Righttttttttt.[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/268213.gif[/img]
[/quote]
49er's tape says it all

[Alexir]

[quote name='JamesRules' timestamp='1322535888' post='889755']
49er's tape says it all
[/quote]
What do the 49ers have to do with the St. Louis Rams or Josh McDaniels?!?!?!?!

They haven't even played each other yet...

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='JamesRules' timestamp='1322535888' post='889755']
49er's tape says it all
[/quote]

Do you mean to write "Cam Cameron is the worst offensive coordinator of all time?" Because if you really meant McDaniels, then I'd have to disagree. Tom Brady had the best seasons of his career with McDaniels as both his QB coach and his offensive coordinator, Kyle Orton had the best years of his career with McDaniels, and Brandon Lloyd went from bouncing around the league to superstar under McDaniels. Anyway, it's really hard to imagine anyone coming in here and being worse than Cam Cameron. IDK what excuses he has, there is no legitimate argument you can make as to why Ray Rice had only 8 carries in Jacksonville when we were never down by more than 1 score the entire game. Then Rice only had 5 carries against Seattle, a team that came out AFTER the game and said they stopped loading up at the line of scrimmage because they saw Rice on the bench and knew we had stopped running the football. One or two games shouldn't break your season, but now instead of having the luxury of being able to drop one game out of our remaining 5, we have to win out or the Steelers might overtake us for the division.

[Dudeman]

@Ravenslifer I agree with you on the number of carries Rice should have had in those 2 games against Jville and Seattle but worst OC of all time? I'd caution you against making broad sweeping statements that you cannot substantiate. I don't think Cam is as bad as everyone says, nor do I think he is one of the best in the biz. Somewhere in the grey land of dichotomy the truth remains to be seen.

I also think that there are legitimate arguments you can make about moving away from the running game because we had a chance to come from behind and take over in those 2 games. I don't think it's your typical winning formula, but all we can reasonably expect is a chance to win. Here's the kicker, if we run the ball 40 times in lose then what? Then everyone will say we should have started throwing sooner. Bottom line is you have to take what the defense is giving you, and you cannot be afraid to make a play. I think Joe hesitated a bit in his reads and making throws in the Jacksonville game, and our special teams were the cause of our woes in the Seattle game. Neither of those things to me says the OC is the sole reason we lost.

[JacktheRaven]

Why all the hate on Cam? I don't get it. He'll probably be the next head coach for the Chargers or Jacksonville. Be careful what you wish for!

[bauer77]

[quote name='JacktheRaven' timestamp='1322601084' post='890317']
Why all the hate on Cam? I don't get it. He'll probably be the next head coach for the Chargers or Jacksonville. Be careful what you wish for!
[/quote]


You don't get it? Did you watch the Seahawks, Jaguars or Titans game? Or any game after we get a lead and then stop trying on offense in the 4th quarter? That's why there's so much hate on Cam. He's horrible. He has an ok game or two, but even in those games, he has some questionable play calling.


But someone i think would be a replacement is Norv Turner. As someone said before, great coordinator, not so good of a coach.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Dudeman' timestamp='1322594934' post='890214']
@Ravenslifer I agree with you on the number of carries Rice should have had in those 2 games against Jville and Seattle but worst OC of all time? I'd caution you against making broad sweeping statements that you cannot substantiate. I don't think Cam is as bad as everyone says, nor do I think he is one of the best in the biz. Somewhere in the grey land of dichotomy the truth remains to be seen.

I also think that there are legitimate arguments you can make about moving away from the running game because we had a chance to come from behind and take over in those 2 games. I don't think it's your typical winning formula, but all we can reasonably expect is a chance to win. Here's the kicker, if we run the ball 40 times in lose then what? Then everyone will say we should have started throwing sooner. Bottom line is you have to take what the defense is giving you, and you cannot be afraid to make a play. I think Joe hesitated a bit in his reads and making throws in the Jacksonville game, and our special teams were the cause of our woes in the Seattle game. Neither of those things to me says the OC is the sole reason we lost.
[/quote]

When I asked the question in the my first post, I was saying it because the guy posted "Josh McDaniels is the worst OC of all time", and I was wondering if he had made a mistake in the name he used. I was asking him if the first sentence in my post was the sentence he [b]meant [/b]to write (meaning he thinks Cam is the worst OC of all time but accidentally wrote McDaniels instead). He also mentioned the 49ers tape. We played the 49ers, and I don't think the Rams have, so it sounds like he meant Cam but wrote McDaniels. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I certainly don't think Cam is the worst anything of all time, but for anyone to say Josh McDaniels is the worst OC of all time is far-fetched, in my opinion.

[Jamal]

[quote name='JacktheRaven' timestamp='1322601084' post='890317']
Why all the hate on Cam? I don't get it. [b]He'll probably be the next head coach for the Chargers or Jacksonville.[/b] Be careful what you wish for!
[/quote]
Lets all pray this comes true.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='JacktheRaven' timestamp='1322601084' post='890317']
Why all the hate on Cam? I don't get it. He'll probably be the next head coach for the Chargers or Jacksonville. Be careful what you wish for!
[/quote]

If this happens, I will be the happiest Ravens' fan alive. Hopefully then we can get an offensive coordinator that will scheme to maximize the talents of the players we have.

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='JacktheRaven' timestamp='1322601084' post='890317']
Why all the hate on Cam? I don't get it. He'll probably be the next head coach for the Chargers or Jacksonville. Be careful what you wish for!
[/quote]

I agree 100%.

We should be wishing for him to become HC of the Steelers or the Bengals.

Think , people , THINK !!

[RavenDefense]

Norv Turner .

- Nuff Said !

[PurpleDrink]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1322458326' post='888986']
Here is my wish-list:

[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][b]Norv Turner HC SD:[/b][/size][/font][/color]
I honestly can't see the FO keeping him around after another year without making the playoffs. While hes not a very good HC, the guy is one of the best play-callers in the game. Rivers numbers are very comparable to Flacco's pre-Turner, and now hes one of the elite QB's in the NFL.

[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][b]Josh McDaniels OC St. Louis:[/b][/size][/font][/color]
He might be #1 on my list. Currently the OC of St. Lois, but if they end up with the worst record in the NFL, I think management might be cleaning house starting with the HC. McDaniels has been given nothing to work with other than Bradford, so I can't really blame him for the offensive woes. Theres no doubt the guy was downright pathetic as a HC and drafter, but offensively, hes truly brilliant. Tom Brady broke the TD record with McDaniles, and lets not forget this guy had Kyle Orton on pace to break Dan Marino'a record. Just look at Orton now. On top of that, this guy brings a special swagger on offense. He definitely takes from his former mentor Bill Belichick in terms of aggressiveness. Hes doesn't play not to lose. The guy is super aggressive, and Flacco and our offense are in desperate need of swagger and aggressiveness. People will point out that he doesn't run the ball very often, but thats more a product of him never really having a back he trusted.


[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][b]Tom Clements QB Coach GB:[/b][/size][/font][/color]
McCarthy gets all the credit, and deservingly so, but Clements is huge reason for Rodgers success. Hes a former QB, and has almost 2 decades of coaching experience. Favre saw a resurgence in his career after GB hired Clements, and almost won the MVP his last year in GB. He was also the QB coach who helped Tommy Maddox have a good year with Pittsburgh.

[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][b]Jim Zorn:[/b][/size][/font][/color]
We might have already burned this bridge, but Flacco wasn't happy to see Zorn go, and maybe the FO might listen to the QB for once and let Zorn become the OC, who has a system much better suited for Flacco. His tenure in Washington was bad, but this is the guy who turned Matt Hasslebeck in to the a SB QB.

At the end of the day, I'll take just about anybody over Cam.

[/quote]

I agree with everything but the Jim Zorn as OC part. To many people have said he would suck as an OC, even Mike Preston from the Baltimoresun said he's horrible at calling offensive plays.

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='PurpleDrink' timestamp='1322717152' post='891554']
I agree with everything but the Jim Zorn as OC part. To many people have said he would suck as an OC, even Mike Preston from the Baltimoresun said he's horrible at calling offensive plays.
[/quote]

We should probably try to stay away from anyone who has had extensive close contact with Cam.

Whatever's wrong with him may be contagious.

[Jamal]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1322462744' post='889014']
Mcdaniels has an aggorance about him that just rubs me wrong, a mike martz type of arrogance that he can turn any QB into the next Kurt Warner ( Martz ) or help mold a Tom Brady ( mcdaniels ). Martz saw some success from bulger, and even had Jon kitna throwing for tons of yds ( losing ) just as Mcdaniels helped led Cassel to one really productive yr and had Orton throwing like Marino ( losing ).
I feel like he might go crazy and pass more than cam did vs Seattle...
[/quote]
This isn't really directed towards you, but it seems there are a lot of misconceptions about McDaniels, from just about everyone. lol

There really is no comparison between Martz and McDaniels. Martz gets his QB's killed while McDaniels runs a system more catered to a pure pocket passer. (Brady, Orton, Cassel are exactly that)

As for the arrogance, I don't see how its a negative. Matter of fact its a positive for a team like us. We rely so much on the defense, that its become a habit. Our offense rarely steps on the throat of an opponent when they're down, because they play not to lose. I think that would be the thinking process for a lot of OC's with our D, But McDaniels gives us a much needed aggressor. Hes arrogant in the way that he believes in his offense, and plays to win, not, not to lose.

As for his passing attempts, hes showed he can commit to the running game with a good one in Steven Jackson. And while all the attempts look ugly, we have to remember how he uses the passing game. Its not like he has the QB back there on long devolving routes. When the run game isn't working he basically uses the pass as it. You know, just like NE runs there offense at the moment. McDaniels invented this for them.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1322462744' post='889014']
Mcdaniels has an aggorance about him that just rubs me wrong, a mike martz type of arrogance that he can turn any QB into the next Kurt Warner ( Martz ) or help mold a Tom Brady ( mcdaniels ). Martz saw some success from bulger, and even had Jon kitna throwing for tons of yds ( losing ) just as Mcdaniels helped led Cassel to one really productive yr and had Orton throwing like Marino ( losing ).
I feel like he might go crazy and pass more than cam did vs Seattle...
[/quote]

If we're going to talk about O-Coordinator arrogance, I personally think Cam has more arrogance than McDaniels. Cam is a "round holes" kind of guy. He loves his Air Coryell system, and he will call plays that don't suit his players just because he loves his system so much. I have still [b]NOT [/b]heard any kind of logical explanation of why Ray Rice had 8 carries against the Jacksonville Jaguars when 2 touchdowns would have won the game. I still have [b]NOT[/b] heard an explanation from anyone other than Flacco as to why Ray Rice had 5 carries against the Seattle Seahawks, and none in the second half. The Seahawks won in part because their defense was able to focus completely on the pass. Everyone saw Ray Rice sitting on the bench, including the Seahawks, who said so after the game. One 15-20 yard run by Rice in the second half would have forced the Seahawks to honor the run, and Joe could have hit Torrey Smith for a TD and won the game. I still have [b]NOT[/b] heard an explanation as to why last year we lost to the Patriots in overtime because 1) Cam got conservative and stopped passing in the second half which allowed the Pats to tie, and then 2) he goes into overtime and gets even more conservative and tries to dink and dunk his way across the field when being aggressive is what got us all the points, and the end result was a punt anyway. Cam not only consistently calls poor game plans, but he never owns up to them. Kurt Warner even said a few weeks ago that the Ravens' biggest problem is that Cam is a stubborn guy who doesn't play to the strengths of his team.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1322458326' post='888986']
Here is my wish-list:

[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][b]Norv Turner HC SD:[/b][/size][/font][/color]
I honestly can't see the FO keeping him around after another year without making the playoffs. While hes not a very good HC, the guy is one of the best play-callers in the game. Rivers numbers are very comparable to Flacco's pre-Turner, and now hes one of the elite QB's in the NFL.

[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][b]Josh McDaniels OC St. Louis:[/b][/size][/font][/color]
He might be #1 on my list. Currently the OC of St. Lois, but if they end up with the worst record in the NFL, I think management might be cleaning house starting with the HC. McDaniels has been given nothing to work with other than Bradford, so I can't really blame him for the offensive woes. Theres no doubt the guy was downright pathetic as a HC and drafter, but offensively, hes truly brilliant. Tom Brady broke the TD record with McDaniles, and lets not forget this guy had Kyle Orton on pace to break Dan Marino'a record. Just look at Orton now. On top of that, this guy brings a special swagger on offense. He definitely takes from his former mentor Bill Belichick in terms of aggressiveness. Hes doesn't play not to lose. The guy is super aggressive, and Flacco and our offense are in desperate need of swagger and aggressiveness. People will point out that he doesn't run the ball very often, but thats more a product of him never really having a back he trusted.


[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][b]Tom Clements QB Coach GB:[/b][/size][/font][/color]
McCarthy gets all the credit, and deservingly so, but Clements is huge reason for Rodgers success. Hes a former QB, and has almost 2 decades of coaching experience. Favre saw a resurgence in his career after GB hired Clements, and almost won the MVP his last year in GB. He was also the QB coach who helped Tommy Maddox have a good year with Pittsburgh.

[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][b]Jim Zorn:[/b][/size][/font][/color]
We might have already burned this bridge, but Flacco wasn't happy to see Zorn go, and maybe the FO might listen to the QB for once and let Zorn become the OC, who has a system much better suited for Flacco. His tenure in Washington was bad, but this is the guy who turned Matt Hasslebeck in to the a SB QB.

At the end of the day, I'll take just about anybody over Cam.
[/quote]

I might switch McDaniels and Turner in order, but I like everyone on this list. Turner has a proven track record with Aikman, Rivers, Alex Smith, Gus Frerrotte, did wonders for Ricky Williams and LT, and made names of guys like Michael Irvin, Vincent Jackson, and Antonio Gates. Clements and Zorn both played professional football (Clements was Canadian League, but still it was football). Clements coached 3 different qbs on 2 different teams to pro-bowl seasons three straight years, and managed to lead Brett Favre to one of his best statistical seasons in a decade. We've all seen what he's done with Rodgers. We saw what Zorn did for Flacco last year, and what he's done for Jason Campbell, Charlie Batch, and Matt Hasselbeck. McDaniels did wonders for Brady, made Matt Cassel look like a superstar, and even had Kyle Orton playing the best football of his career. All of these guys are proven with veteran quarterbacks (which is what I'd call Flacco at this point). I'd be happy with any one of these guys.

This is my take on Cam Cameron. He's good at developing young quarterbacks, but absolutely terrible at working with them after they've developed. He's played his part in Flacco's development - it's time to move on.

[Jamal]

[quote name='PurpleDrink' timestamp='1322717152' post='891554']
I agree with everything but the Jim Zorn as OC part. To many people have said he would suck as an OC, even Mike Preston from the Baltimoresun said he's horrible at calling offensive plays.
[/quote]
I don't think hes a great OC, but Flacco liked him, and had his best season with him.

I think he'd be a big upgrade over Cameron.