A Quote From A Steelers Fan

[ROH522155]

[quote name='BenDufusberger' timestamp='1322418944' post='887941']

I read. I listen. It helps if you haven't been living in a cave in recent weeks.

BTW , the issue is not one of liking Cam. I like him and I'm sure most of the players do , as well. It's his play-calling that people don't like.

The list of current and ex-Raven players , and former NFL players and coaches that serve as commentators and analysts on sports venues nationwide , who've gone on record as being bewildered at Cam's premature abandonment of RR and the running game , is extensive , to say the least. Go back thru earlier posts on this subject and you should get a fair sampling.

On the other hand , the list of football people who've supported Cam publicly is much easier to enumerate : Harbs , Flacco and , half-heartedly , Billick. There's a certain closing-of-the-ranks aspect of that particular group that should be obvious , and might lead one to question the sincerity of their support.

This is not about a bunch of ignorant , bloodthirsty fans calling for someone's head. It's about a widepread recognition among people knowledgeable about football that the man is ill-suited for the job he holds , to the detriment of the Ravens.
[/quote]

Oh right sorry maybe I should come out of my cave.....Obviously I meant his playcalls I don't care if people like Cam the person and I'm sure he doesn't either. Maybe I have missed something though. Pretty much every offensive coordinator in this league comes under fire from the fans because the job along with QB and head coach are the most scrutinized jobs in this game. Every guy in the business makes bad calls and are second guessed. I'm not forgiving Cam for his bad calls because they have been a bit too frequent but I'm just saying everybody gets second guessed not just Cam. Maybe you can point me to where you read of any players saying Cam is a bad play caller or coordinator. I'm not being smart or anything just point me to where I may have missed that. Sorry I just think it's unfair to suggest that the majority of the team thinks Cam is doing a horrible job when I haven't seen anyone suggest that outside of a couple suggesting we give the ball to Ray Rice more...Then again maybe I did miss something. Show me this list of people. I'm trying my best not to sound sarcastic I mean it haha.

[scrock]

[quote name='BenDufusberger' timestamp='1322410299' post='887843']
I could probably accept the dismissals of the Cam-bashing if the bashing only came from the fans. As a Cam-basher myself , I might be inclined to re-think my position.

However , when the Cam-bashing fans have many - if not most - of the Ravens' players on their side , it's the dismissers that need to do a re-think.
[/quote]

This is what concerns me too, that some of the players dont like how Cam calls things...even during he Sound FX last night I heard some players getting upset and Ray Rice even went up to Cam and had to assure him, I got your back

[ROH522155]

I have yet to see the Sound FX thing but I have it recorded. I saw the first 5 minutes though and it looked great.

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='ROH522155' timestamp='1322420601' post='887967']

Oh right sorry maybe I should come out of my cave.....Obviously I meant his playcalls I don't care if people like Cam the person and I'm sure he doesn't either. Maybe I have missed something though. Pretty much every offensive coordinator in this league comes under fire from the fans because the job along with QB and head coach are the most scrutinized jobs in this game. Every guy in the business makes bad calls and are second guessed. I'm not forgiving Cam for his bad calls because they have been a bit too frequent but I'm just saying everybody gets second guessed not just Cam. Maybe you can point me to where you read of any players saying Cam is a bad play caller or coordinator. I'm not being smart or anything just point me to where I may have missed that. Sorry I just think it's unfair to suggest that the majority of the team thinks Cam is doing a horrible job when I haven't seen anyone suggest that outside of a couple suggesting we give the ball to Ray Rice more...Then again maybe I did miss something. Show me this list of people. I'm trying my best not to sound sarcastic I mean it haha.
[/quote]

If you search the posts on the topic on this forum , you'll find a lot of examples. The list of current players who've said something publicly includes Rice , Suggs , Lewis , Dickson and Webb , off the top of my head. The players' comments are more circumspect than what you'll hear from the fans , naturally , but the intent is clear. The extreme praise of Pagano you get from the players is telling if you contrast it both with what you hear from them about the offensive playcalling , and what you don't hear ( i.e. similar praise ).

A quick Google search brought up these links , which might direct you to some more detailed commentary :

[url="http://articles.baltimoresun.com/keyword/cam-cameron"]http://articles.baltimoresun.com/keyword/cam-cameron[/url]

[url="http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/players/cam_cameron/137011"]http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/players/cam_cameron/137011[/url]

[ROH522155]

[quote name='BenDufusberger' timestamp='1322422630' post='887998']

If you search the posts on the topic on this forum , you'll find a lot of examples. The list of current players who've said something publicly includes Rice , Suggs , Lewis , Dickson and Webb , off the top of my head. The players' comments are more circumspect than what you'll hear from the fans , naturally , but the intent is clear. The extreme praise of Pagano you get from the players is telling if you contrast it both with what you hear from them about the offensive playcalling , and what you don't hear ( i.e. similar praise ).

A quick Google search brought up these links , which might direct you to some more detailed commentary :

[url="http://articles.baltimoresun.com/keyword/cam-cameron"]http://articles.balt...ord/cam-cameron[/url]

[url="http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/players/cam_cameron/137011"]http://www.yardbarke..._cameron/137011[/url]
[/quote]

Fair enough. Thanks for the research haha. I didn't know Ed Dickson did a radio show haha.

[Jamal]

I get so excited for Ravens games.

But than I see Cam Cameron, and lower my expectations each and every week.

Back in the early 2000's we had the best D in the NFL, but the QB position might have cost us a SB or 2. Now we have an elite defense, and elite talent on offense, but now the OC might be costing us a SB or 2.

[JohnJohnson]

Hate to tell you, but that guy is clearly not a Steelers fan. Check his next most recent post, he's saying things that a Ravens fan would say.

[reediddy]

[quote name='McBoller' timestamp='1322411127' post='887853']
The only reason they're the #1 pass defense is because no one needs to throw on them. they're 29th against the Run. Based on what we saw against the niners I think we'll see a HEAVY dose of ray rice against the brownies.
[/quote]

Haha makes sense. Give credit where it's due though, Haden is a baller

[Militant X 1]

i'll admit it that i almost didn't read this thread because i am "tired" of talking about the steelers. but, i am glad that i came to peep in on it because this dude said what we all already know about Flacco. now that "dork" thing about Flacco unfortunately, is how most people around the league and other fans view our boys QB gameplay. hopefully, the o-line will continue to protect him and give him time to throw the ball and that he'll look great in doing so!

go Ravens!

~Mili

[Corvus]

Never did I think when clicking on the title of this thread it was a Cam thread in disguise. Cam has been the Cam we became used to last season at times this year but the only time I thought it was a big chunk of the blame for our loss was after we got down in Seattle and he completely abandoned the game plan when when we were only down by 12. In my opinion, Cam has done an excellent job the last couple of weeks other than a few questionable goal line plays and the offense has done a better job of executing then it was in those losses. I am very glad that we stuck with the run all night Thursday, despite its limited success. In any case, I'm done talking about Cam until the season is over and we and more importantly , Steve a full body of work to look at

[PeRK82]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1322376823' post='887727']
Just found this from Yahoo, I thought it was interesting..



funny, even Steelers fans think our offense should be much more explosive

Now I don't mean to start a Cam bashing thread, just thought it interesting to see this outside perspective of our offense

Cam has called great game plans in the past but he's also had some head scratchers and doesn't always make adjustments
[/quote]


LOL thats funny, im more curious in what the other Stealers fans said in response,lol

[PeRK82]

[quote name='neoi78' timestamp='1322380407' post='887745']
Cam, Cam, Cam.. Blah blah blah. Its on the players too, as far as the losses are concerned. The team wins, and loses together.
[/quote]


Yea, i dont think we would have beat the TITANS , the way they played. Guess we can say , its their SB, lol, i remember looking at their Forums and they all said they hated us more than the Stealers. I remember thinking , geez whered this come from but i guess when you lose almost all the time playing us, you will hate us. Thats how i feel about the Colts but there our other reasons too, obviously .

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Ravens Fan in Ontario' timestamp='1322406475' post='887813']
I am not surprised by the whole Cam Cameron thing...

He did well in SD his first 2-3 years and then the decline started as the OC and he was fired

He did miserably as the HC of the Dolphins and was fired by Bill Parcels...

Enter the Ravens and now after a few years we are seeing the decline again of Cam Cameron

He really needs to start making adjustments to his scheme's earlier. It shouldn't take the RB (Rice) going to the OC and saying..."Look this is what I'm seeing, lets make this adjustment and I will find room to run!" Oh and that adjustment being the right call.

Nothing against [b]Ricky Williams [/b]but I would not have hired him after releasing W.MaGahee (they are very much similar running styles), I would have brought in a change of pace back. I don't think we needed another burner or cut-back type of RB, They should have went after a punishing RB (the likes of Tolbert, Blount or M. Turner). Can you imagine how much you could wear down a defense with V.Leach punishing people and the RB coming right behind him with another punishing hit? Don't get me wrong, I would never give up on R.Rice, but I think pounding on the LB's with a BIG change of pace back would tire them out and give Rice even more big runs.
[/quote]


I am not a big Ricky Williams fan, I think A.Allen can do the exact same thing but faster,stronger and Better. This isnt 10YRS ago with Ricky doing in infamous juke spin move, Which i used to love watching, think its the only reason i watched the Dolphins lol. Ricky was a Beast, Key word WAS.

On a side note, did anyone watch the 30 for 30 run ricky run, man is Williams out there. lol. I watched last yr and thinking this guy has lost it.

[scrock]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1322424041' post='888027']
Hate to tell you, but that guy is clearly not a Steelers fan. Check his next most recent post, he's saying things that a Ravens fan would say.
[/quote]

...i dont even know what to say to this

way to be a creeper though, haha

i was just going off his statement of being a Steelers fan

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1322423442' post='888011']
I get so excited for Ravens games.

But than I see Cam Cameron, and lower my expectations each and every week.

Back in the early 2000's we had the best D in the NFL, but the QB position might have cost us a SB or 2. Now we have an elite defense, and [b]elite talent on offense[/b], but now the OC might be costing us a SB or 2.
[/quote]

I'm not trying to diss our players, but call the talent level of our offense "elite" is a bit of a stretch. I see a lot of potential in our players, but aside from Ray Rice and perhaps our interior Oline we dont have elite players, at least not yet.

I get frustrated at Cam Cameron when he makes stupid calls and his tendency to abandon the run, but to say his play-calling is the sole reason we have not performed this season is false. The main culprit in our losses this season is Turnovers and that hinges solely on player execution and not the playcalling. In addition I dont think anyone could argue that there havent been a large number of drops and overthrows of open receivers as well. Once again player execection. Missed blocks, bad routes, penalties etc all factor into this.

Cam never gets the credit he deserves when he calls a great game, but he is always lambasted when the offense stalls. Now by no means am I saying he is perfect, he clearly makes mistakes, but so do the players. As fans we tend to be homers and we want to blame the obvious scapegoat, often the OC, but if we really examine the games closely, poor execution has bit us just as many times as bad calls.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1322440498' post='888299']

...i dont even know what to say to this

way to be a creeper though, haha

i was just going off his statement of being a Steelers fan
[/quote]

How is that being a creeper? I went to the same place as you did and read a few comments, including his reply to someone. I'd say starting a thread about some comment on a yahoo article and acting like it means something is pretty weird.

[BloodRaven]

Steelers fans for the most part are really disrespectful towards us, at least even the most hardline Raven fan would acknowledge that they are a damn good team.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1322443875' post='888383']
Steelers fans for the most part are really disrespectful towards us, at least even the most hardline Raven fan would acknowledge that they are a damn good team.
[/quote]

Exactly, and they refuse to respect Flacco. First they said that he couldn't beat Ben. We only won in week 1 because it was a fluke and our Super Bowl. Then they say that his 92 yard drive wouldn't have happened with Woodley and Farrior playing.

[Tiz]

After week 1 people here ” ate crow” about cam and both cam and the players said there was no real game plan just that the players executed. So I dont find it surprising that if players dont execute cam gets all the blame.

He isnt perfect and at times predictable such as open play is always rice up the middle but there are times when his calls are right on such as how he attacks right after a turnover.

At the end of the day there has yet to be an oc that has emerged that I feel is superior to cam and right now cam is our oc so he gets 100% of my support

[PurpleDrink]

[quote name='Irish Raven' timestamp='1322408778' post='887832']


If our TE lets a corner back breeze past them to make a goalline tackle you can't excuse it with a statement like that
[/quote] Ok I'll put it this way, they both do a horrible job at blocking but man can they catch a pass.

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='PurpleDrink' timestamp='1322700906' post='891435']
Ok I'll put it this way, they both do a horrible job at blocking but man can they catch a pass.
[/quote]
Ive seen them block pretty good lately. The oline and them have been pretty decent lately.

[ROH522155]

[quote name='Tiz' timestamp='1322475041' post='889050']
After week 1 people here ” ate crow” about cam and both cam and the players said there was no real game plan just that the players executed. So I dont find it surprising that if players dont execute cam gets all the blame.

He isnt perfect and at times predictable such as open play is always rice up the middle but there are times when his calls are right on such as how he attacks right after a turnover.

At the end of the day there has yet to be an oc that has emerged that I feel is superior to cam and right now cam is our oc so he gets 100% of my support
[/quote]
Absolutely this.

[The Raven]

[quote name='cursona pirate' timestamp='1322702574' post='891446']
Ive seen them block pretty good lately. The oline and them have been pretty decent lately.
[/quote]

I haven't seen that. Dickson got beat [b]bad[/b] on that stretch. And you can't blame is poor blocking on a bad play call. Oline has been better, but I need to see better still. A 4.0 avg for Rice is terrible. Blame goes to Cam, Rice, the TEs, and the OL. Grubbs, Yanda, and Leach have been great. Oher has been on and off, Birk has done better in pass pro than run blocking, and McKinnie... Don't get me started. It's really weird though, because he had a 5.3 in 09 with mostly the same line. Only difference was McKinnie/Gaither and Birk getting older.

[HarleypsychRN]

[quote name='neoi78' timestamp='1322383080' post='887753']

If it would have worked, as you say, we would say Cam called the best game of his carrier in Baltimore. How often do we run that? NEVER. Why would the 49'ers expect that? Too bad tonight on NFL sound Effects, it showed patrick willias DID expect it, and even called out the play before the snap. Oh well, if it would have worked, Cam would be a "genius"! But it didn't, so hes an idiot. LOL

PS sorry for spelling its late and im going to bed.. now! =)
[/quote]

Look...Joe isn't the most mobile QB in the league, the QB draw may have worked. Willis called it out so why run it? If it would have worked we wouldn't be having this discussion. Some of us would be praising Cam for his call (some of us wouldn't). On the one yard line...give it to Ray or V or one of the big boys. If you're gonna play smash-mouth...play smash-mouth.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Tiz' timestamp='1322475041' post='889050']
[b]After week 1 people here ” ate crow” about cam [/b]and both cam and the players said there was no real game plan just that the players executed. So I dont find it surprising that if players dont execute cam gets all the blame.

He isnt perfect and at times predictable such as open play is always rice up the middle but there are times when his calls are right on such as how he attacks right after a turnover.

At the end of the day there has yet to be an oc that has emerged that I feel is superior to cam and right now cam is our oc so he gets 100% of my support
[/quote]
I dont remember anyone jumping on the Bandwagon. All i remember is , Cam needs to keep it up. Even with some of our Wins, our Offense wasnt impressive. The Cardinals game ill give Cam credit ,it was great, but thats because we were down 3 scores and had to come back. So when Cam starts play calling like we are 3 scores down in the first quarter, he will start to get my respect. Cam always keeps the other team in the game, Our Defense is the one that saves his butt in alot of games that we have won imo. We didnt do pretty much jack in the second half of week 1 against the Stealers, Thank god our D kept turning the ball over. 7 Turnovers and only 7 points from it. Come on, thats pretty bad.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1322703944' post='891458']

I haven't seen that. Dickson got beat [b]bad[/b] on that stretch. And you can't blame is poor blocking on a bad play call. Oline has been better, but I need to see better still. A 4.0 avg for Rice is terrible. Blame goes to Cam, Rice, the TEs, and the OL. Grubbs, Yanda, and Leach have been great. Oher has been on and off, Birk has done better in pass pro than run blocking, and McKinnie... Don't get me started. It's really weird though, because he had a 5.3 in 09 with mostly the same line. Only difference was McKinnie/Gaither and Birk getting older.
[/quote]


I remember watching the game and calling out QB sneak when it was 1 foot and goal (not 1 yd and goal). Why wouldnt you qb sneak it, your telling me that Flacco and the online cant get a foot.

[Suggs Package]

Our problems on offense are partially because of play-calling, but its mostly because the execution has been bad. We don't have access to All-22 film, but from going to games, I can say many of the accusations against Cam are off base. For example, Boldin is always in the slot contrary to popular belief. You haven't seen him that much until these last couple of games because with Evans' injury, we had no depth at WR. Last year, Boldin played the 3rd most snaps in the slot of any WR in the NFL.

For those who think Cam is passing too much and losing the identity of the offense, running the football is far more inefficient than passing it. If you can average seven yards an attempt passing and only four running. Which one would you do? If you have a semi-capable QB, your team should be passing more than it should be running. You still need to be able to run in short yardage situations, in the red zone, once inna while to set up play-action, and running out the clock. Otherwise, you run the more efficient play.

Is Cam having issues with his personnel? Yes. But the issues that are constantly brought up aren't actually the real issues at all.

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1322443875' post='888383']
Steelers fans for the most part are really disrespectful towards us, at least even the most hardline Raven fan would acknowledge that they are a damn good team.
[/quote]
Fear not...I give back just as good if not better than i get from them.

[CapoRocky]

Let me tell you what I like about Joe Flacco: (1) He is a connazionale (Italiano), scores big points with the boys like me that grew up in the old country; (2) He is as tall as a giraffe and takes a hit like Rocky Balboa; (3) He slings the ball like my Beretta CX4; (4) He looks sharp in a mustache; (5) He will lead us to a Super Bowl.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1322376823' post='887727']
Just found this from Yahoo, I thought it was interesting..



funny, even Steelers fans think our offense should be much more explosive

Now I don't mean to start a Cam bashing thread, just thought it interesting to see this outside perspective of our offense

Cam has called great game plans in the past but he's also had some head scratchers and doesn't always make adjustments
[/quote]
Why is everyone on Cam? i think he is actually doing fine for a change. He definitely calls a safe game, and has some plays that make you wanna scream, but overall he has not been that bad. At times he is way to conservative, but that usually happens when he is trying to preserve the win. We could do better at Offensive coordinator but not much better. I would love to have Andy Reid......wishful thinking.