Webbs Starts, But Is Smith Ready?

[Corvus]

Cary has done a solid job for the most part so far, but I think Jimmy has more big play potential like Webb once he has some more experience under his belt. I say leave Cary where he is for now and start working Jimmy in as our full time nickel back for the rest of the season. He's already as good as Carr, but as we saw with Andre Caldwell Sunday, he is still a rookie with only a handful of games of experience, a lot of that coming on special teams. Any true contender really needs 3 solid CBs anyway as I have said multiple times in the past, due to the proliferation of 3+ receiver sets so Lardarius, Cary, and Jimmy will all have important roles for the rest of the year anyway.

[chesapeakeaviator]

Agree with the idea of working Jimmy in. He's SENSATIONAL. He's going to be great. However, I'm more concerned with what to do if Ray can't go again.

If Cary isn't playing up to the same level he has been, you're not going to keep sending him in--there's a guy ready to go, and it'll be his spot to win from that time on. I also agree that to have that problem is pretty darn rare in this league.

[ball hawkin 20]

Smith in the Nickel for the rest of the season and then let them battle it out in training camp next season

[BenDufusberger]

While I think Webb is clearly our #1 CB until proven otherwise by the play of Jimmy and/or Cary , I am pleased with the play of Cary so far. He's getting more PDs now , and my sense is that he's bringing receivers down more reliably after the catch. I think he's still growing into the job and has the potential to be very good.

I'd like to know - without having to scour the box scores to figure it out - who has most often defended against the opponent's #1 receiver - Cary , or Webb ? If Cary has had that responsibility more often than not , it should be factored into how we evaluate his play.

Anyone know how the stats on this break down , or just have a good feel for how it's gone ?

[bMore Heathen]

Jimmy should stay as the 3rd corner. When we go into a nickel, Jimmy goes outside and Webb moves inside. Webb has the speed, size, and change of direction to play nickel, Smith and Williams don't.

[cursona pirate]

i like them both. Maybe we can start them in and out swith them in and out throught the game?

[wayne]

Like what has been said many times in this thread, Cary is like a rookie playing this season with his first real action of his young career playing CB and I like what I have seen from him. Its hard to make a clean verdict on him right now b/c of what I mentioned earlier but like what's been said, let's ease Jimmy back in as the 3rd CB but when we go Nickle, place him on the outside with Webb in the inside. I also think that Jimmy needs to excel in being able to be a good CB without press coverage b/c you will keep the QB guessing not knowing if you playing press coverage or not and depending on what he does, QBs already have a guess at how they would attack Jimmy ( back shoulder passes and just lob bombs and you will see Nhandi get beat by these two types of passes at times ). Learn to play coverage without pressing ( I'm just guessing he's not that good covering without pressing but I could be wrong ) . Also, Cary adds a little muscle to his frame so he can be stronger playing press coverage and he will be aight.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1321980798' post='881410']


right..... That really isnt a direct correlation...
[/quote]
You really think he's the same corner that CMac was? The only relation I see is the press ability. JSmith is a leaner corner, doesnt pack the same punch at the line, doesnt tackle as well, but is smoother in his transitions from his backpedal than CMac was.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1321986250' post='881565']

So who would you compare Jimmy to? Nnamdi, maybe? Both of them are excellent at press coverage. I guess my point is though I think Jimmy is on a talent level similar to both Nnamdi and C-Mac (meaning top-3 CB in the league potential), and he his younger and needs experience. I think given time he could turn into one of the top corners in the league, so I'd like to see him in over Cary Williams. And getting young players the chance to start as early as possible has really paid dividends the last few years (Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, Michael Oher, Ladarius Webb, Pernell McPhee, Torrey Smith, Dickson and Pitta, ect.), so if our future is in theory supposed to be Webb and Smith starting, why wait?
[/quote]
No, I agree JSmith is an immense talent. If anything I think he's like Cromartie, just he's willing to tackle.

[baltravens]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1322002244' post='881872']
You really think he's the same corner that CMac was? The only relation I see is the press ability. JSmith is a leaner corner, doesnt pack the same punch at the line, doesnt tackle as well, but is smoother in his transitions from his backpedal than CMac was.
[/quote]
Where have you seen that Smith does not tackle as well? When I saw him against Cincy, he tackled just fine despite his slender frame. As time wore on with McCalister his power in tacking went away. Remember, not a lot of corners tackle like linebackers.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1322002305' post='881874']
No, I agree JSmith is an immense talent. If anything I think he's like Cromartie, just he's willing to tackle.
[/quote]

Yes, that's what I love about Jimmy: his physicality against WRs AND run support. He's going to be a special player for many years.

[D_UP]

Why would you take out Webb more like take out Williams.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1322002844' post='881895']
Where have you seen that Smith does not tackle as well? When I saw him against Cincy, he tackled just fine despite his slender frame. As time wore on with McCalister his power in tacking went away. Remember, not a lot of corners tackle like linebackers.
[/quote]
I have the 2000 run on dvd and CMac is beyond excellent in run support and tackling anybody that comes his way, he gets low and drives. JSmith isnt a bad tackler by any means, but CMac in his younger days was one of the better tackling corners I can think of in the last while.

[hawkprey]

It's easy to forget Cary Williams is a beast when he lets up a few long passes against the Bengals, but those throws by Dalton were spot on. Webb was the best CB last year, but Cary is still rightfully our #1.

I'd like to see Jimmy move Webb into the slot sometimes so Webb can blitz the quarterback. It's been a while since he's been able to do that.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1322008253' post='881986']
It's easy to forget Cary Williams is a beast when he lets up a few long passes against the Bengals, but those throws by Dalton were spot on. Webb was the best CB last year, but [b]Cary is still rightfully our #1[/b].

I'd like to see Jimmy move Webb into the slot sometimes so Webb can blitz the quarterback. It's been a while since he's been able to do that.
[/quote]
Have to disagree with you here, Webb has played much better this season. Cary has been matched up on some #1 WRs because he is bigger than Webb and it helps to put a larger corner on big WRs, but Webb has been on the real fast guys like Wallace and Holmes.

[H8R]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1322002244' post='881872']

You really think he's the same corner that CMac was? The only relation I see is the press ability. JSmith is a leaner corner, doesnt pack the same punch at the line, doesnt tackle as well, but is smoother in his transitions from his backpedal than CMac was.
[/quote]

No, I never said he was. Though, its far too soon to even say he'll be great. Time will tell.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1322010500' post='881998']
Have to disagree with you here, Webb has played much better this season. Cary has been matched up on some #1 WRs because he is bigger than Webb and it helps to put a larger corner on big WRs, but Webb has been on the real fast guys like Wallace and Holmes.
[/quote]
Gorrer was on Holmes too, and he didn't let up anything. Is Gorrer our #1? No. Webb has had the better game several times so far but he's not up to the task of being the #1. Cary Williams' only bad games were this Sunday and against Kenny Britt. But he's Kenny freaking Britt. And that was Cary's 3rd start ever. I like both, and this has been Webb's best year, but don't forget how well Cary's played most of the year.

[redrum52]

Good to know my vote evens out the voting in Jimmys favor. Cary has been playing alright but Smith is the future. You seen what you have in Cary, let Jimmy get up to speed before the playoffs. The team plays a lot of nickel anyway, just keep Cary and Jimmy on the outside and Webb in the slot cause he seems to be to best and most versatile at this point. To get where the team wants they will all need to be major contributors but Jimmys physical nature will pay dividends to the pass rush. Webbs coverages with Jimmys press will give extra time to either make the qb get sacked or cause a bad throw and I trust Webb and Smiths ball skills(pause) better than Carys. For all you Cary is Revis believers Jimmy already has more picks than he does in about a tenth of the time.

[63bru]

I voted for Jimmy Smith. Cary Williams is OK, but he really hasn't improved much over the year, and teams tend to pick on him. Jimmy Smith has more upside. He might take so lumps, but come later in the season, it would be beneficial for Jimmy to have gotten more playing time. At least let Cary know he's being pushed by Jimmy.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1322010851' post='882002']
No, I never said he was. Though, its far too soon to even say he'll be great. Time will tell.
[/quote]
Then why did you jump all over me for suggestion he wasnt the same style corner as CMac?

[Militant X 1]

Jimmy needs more playing time in live action so that he can get caught up to speed with the other DBs.the sooner the better cause the season is getting shorter.

~Mili

[H8R]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1322011703' post='882015']

Then why did you jump all over me for suggestion he wasnt the same style corner as CMac?
[/quote]

Simply because you're speaking in absolutes, in a VERY limited sample set. Jimmys career can't be summed up in one game or even a season. It's faaaar to early to say he's this or he isn't that.. that's all I was saying.

[ball hawkin 20]

Smith has a lotttt more upside, but at this point i think Cary is the better fit.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1322012361' post='882022']
Simply because you're speaking in absolutes, in a VERY limited sample set. Jimmys career can't be summed up in one game or even a season. It's faaaar to early to say he's this or he isn't that.. that's all I was saying.
[/quote]
Thats because they have/had different skill sets. Smith plays the game differently.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1322011065' post='882006']
Gorrer was on Holmes too, and he didn't let up anything. Is Gorrer our #1? No. Webb has had the better game several times so far but he's not up to the task of being the #1. Cary Williams' only bad games were this Sunday and against Kenny Britt. But he's Kenny freaking Britt. And that was Cary's 3rd start ever. I like both, and this has been Webb's best year, but don't forget how well Cary's played most of the year.
[/quote]
I just dont think Cary has played all that well this year. He has been pretty good and made some nice plays at times, but he has also given up most of the TDs our defense has allowed through the air. Antonio Brown abused Cary as did Britt and Simpson. Granted those are all quality WRs, but I have yet to see Webb get beat like Cary has repeatedly this season.

[H8R]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1322012788' post='882028']

Thats because they have/had different skill sets. Smith plays the game differently.
[/quote]

Why are you comparing them?

[Ravenslifer]

From the sound of this thread, everyone is in agreement that Jimmy has a lot of potential and could maybe one day be considered elite at his position. So the question is do you want the talent/potential on the field as often as possible, or do you go with the proven guy/known quantity in Williams? Myself I lean towards starting Jimmy, because as I said he is the future, and the best way to learn and maximize your potential, to me, is to get as much playing experience in as many real situations as possible. So why start Cary and wait, when we could start Jimmy and have him develop even sooner?

[indianstick]

Jimmy may have made some mental mistakes (AKA rookie mistakes), but he is a playmaker, and I'm not saying that just bc he got a pick last sunday but he is starting to get the defense, and I'm glad he made that mistake then bc now he knows exactly how to play in that coverage (even though suggs and reed said it wasn't jimmy's fault). If jimmy doesn't start vs 49ers i'll be fine with it, as long as he is in on nickle packages. But I would def like to see jimmy win over one of the starting spots very soon, hopefully it's before the chargers game

[Bltravens]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1322013957' post='882045']
Why are you comparing them?
[/quote]
It was in response to the first post I quoted in this thread. In which a member directly compared JSmith to CMac. I disagreed.

[True]

Ladarius Webb is playing at a very high level and deserves the #1 spot; he has yet to give up a TD so far. I see Jimmy Smith eventually supplanting Cary Williams as he gets more experience because both have similar styles physical corner who are built to play press but Smith is far and away the more talented player. His injury slowed him down but as he gains more experience out in the field I see him eventually taking over down the line this season.