3Rd And Short Issues

[Natty Boh]

Now in all fairness, I don't have the numbers on how the Ravens are on the year in 3rd and short situations when running the ball but it seems like they have trouble in that department.

Ray Rice is a great RB but unless he has proper blocking, he lacks the size to plow through for a 3rd and short. And when I say "short", I'm talking 2 yards or less. I know we have Vonta Leach and Ricky Williams but I don't have a lot more faith in them either in these situations. Maybe I'm just living in the past but I wish the Ravens had a backup RB built more like Jamal Lewis was. Not only could he get the short yardage on his own, but tackling him all game long really wore down a defense making it easier for the offense to kill the clock later in the game. A big bruising RB would compliment Ray Rice very well.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Natty Boh' timestamp='1321894527' post='880267']
Now in all fairness, I don't have the numbers on how the Ravens are on the year in 3rd and short situations when running the ball but it seems like they have trouble in that department.

Ray Rice is a great RB but unless he has proper blocking, he lacks the size to plow through for a 3rd and short. And when I say "short", I'm talking 2 yards or less. I know we have Vonta Leach and Ricky Williams but I don't have a lot more faith in them either in these situations. Maybe I'm just living in the past but I wish the Ravens had a backup RB built more like Jamal Lewis was. Not only could he get the short yardage on his own, but tackling him all game long really wore down a defense making it easier for the offense to kill the clock later in the game. A big bruising RB would compliment Ray Rice very well.
[/quote]

The O-Line is just getting zero push on the 3rd and shorts. I don't know if a bruising back will solve the issue.

[RavensAllTheWay]

We've been excellent at the goaline though.

[Natty Boh]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1321894745' post='880273']

The O-Line is just getting zero push on the 3rd and shorts. I don't know if a bruising back will solve the issue.
[/quote]
Yeah I totally agree about the O-Line. I just feel that a bruiser type like Jamal Lewis was would stand a chance to convert even if the blocking wasn't stellar. Rice has crazy agility but once those big boys get him in their grasp, he isn't going anywhere.

[Natty Boh]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1321894796' post='880277']
We've been excellent at the goaline though.
[/quote]
Yeah goal line has been good. I wish we could have gotten in one more time yesterday though and not settle for that FG.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Natty Boh' timestamp='1321894996' post='880283']
Yeah I totally agree about the O-Line. I just feel that a bruiser type like Jamal Lewis was would stand a chance to convert even if the blocking wasn't stellar. Rice has crazy agility but once those big boys get him in their grasp, he isn't going anywhere.
[/quote]

What I would like to see on 3rd and shorts is us getting to the line quickly and snapping the ball. I hate 3rd and shorts and we slowly get up to the line and stand there while the D-Line can prepare to gear up for the inside run.

Treat it like ripping off a band-aid.

[Natty Boh]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1321895147' post='880289']

What I would like to see on 3rd and shorts is us getting to the line quickly and snapping the ball. I hate 3rd and shorts and we slowly get up to the line and stand there while the D-Line can prepare to gear up for the inside run.

Treat it like ripping off a band-aid.
[/quote]
Couldn't agree more with this.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Idk i feel like they should use leach more on those third and short. I mean hes known for being tough, why not try with him? Also noticed that our run D also given up those third and short, whats up with that?

[PuRock]

[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1321895517' post='880302']
Idk i feel like they should use leach more on those third and short. I mean hes known for being tough, why not try with him? Also noticed that our run D also given up those third and short, whats up with that?
[/quote]

I agree with this as well. It also seems like we take a lot of time after the snap to set up the run with Rice. Instead we could run an I formation and do a quick FB dive.

[SideStep77]

I wish we still had Le'Ron he was perfect for these sort of plays. He was a big guy who actually played RB instead of leach who is strictly a FB. I think what usually seems to work for us is a quick dish pass to RIce on the outside and he goes for a few yards instead of running the ball up the middle and getting nothing.

[Adam Jones]

I'd like to pick up someone like Brandon Jacobs(not him specifically) for times like this. We don't need another starter, just someone who weighs 250+ to slam forward behind Leach for a yard or two.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1321895147' post='880289']

What I would like to see on 3rd and shorts is us getting to the line quickly and snapping the ball. I hate 3rd and shorts and we slowly get up to the line and stand there while the D-Line can prepare to gear up for the inside run.

Treat it like ripping off a band-aid.
[/quote]

There's a reason Madden geeks do this all the time...lol. You're absolutely right. Catch them off balance.

[baltravens]

[quote name='Natty Boh' timestamp='1321894527' post='880267']
Now in all fairness, I don't have the numbers on how the Ravens are on the year in 3rd and short situations when running the ball but it seems like they have trouble in that department.

Ray Rice is a great RB but unless he has proper blocking, he lacks the size to plow through for a 3rd and short. And when I say "short", I'm talking 2 yards or less. I know we have Vonta Leach and Ricky Williams but I don't have a lot more faith in them either in these situations. Maybe I'm just living in the past but I wish the Ravens had a backup RB built more like Jamal Lewis was. Not only could he get the short yardage on his own, but tackling him all game long really wore down a defense making it easier for the offense to kill the clock later in the game. A big bruising RB would compliment Ray Rice very well.
[/quote]
I don't think there have been a bunch of 3rd and short situations this year. Yeah, we failed yesterday, but what I noticed is that we ran up the middle on those plays, instead of off-tackle. The Bengals stacked the box with 9 players on one of those plays where Rice was stopped short. Is Cam letting Joe check down to a high percentage short-yardage pass play?

[arnie_uk]

play action rollout would work real well, or fake end around, slow the blitz down.. or at least have leach in, they pulled him out on the 3rd and two yesterday after that wee bust up

[Suggs Package]

One thing to point out: If you've watched any Bengals games this season, you'll realize what a beast Geno Atkins is becoming. He is so disruptive and he made Yanda look silly on a few plays yesterday.

Generally, I don't think we have a problem with blocking or Rice/Williams being a short yardage back. The problem is that we've become so predictive on 3rd downs that opposing defenses sellout completely. Its fine to run a dive, but once inna while, we have to do some sort of bootleg, toss, screen, etc just to keep the defense honest. Otherwise, the numbers simply don't add up and there's more people than we can block.

[KillaBirdTJ]

I think we need to give Anthony Allen a shot at some snaps... did anyone else notive this kid is a BEAST?? He is around Jamal Lewis size and is a down-hill runner... I think he may be more effective at this point than Ricky.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1321905733' post='880539']
I think we need to give Anthony Allen a shot at some snaps... did anyone else notive this kid is a BEAST?? He is around Jamal Lewis size and is a down-hill runner... I think he may be more effective at this point than Ricky.
[/quote]
hes injured and has been pretty much all year

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1321906297' post='880550']
hes injured and has been pretty much all year
[/quote]
Ok, that explains it... thanks for clearing that up for me, Ive been screaming at the TV lately "Why is Ricky running so slow and High!!! Where the heck is Allen? Cam use the Kid you _____ _____!"

[Runnin Raven]

Here's a novel idea: let's get the ball to Mr. 3rd Down every now and then...Dennis Pitta. I see he didn't record a catch yesterday. And no more swing passes to Leach.

[Raven146]

It is the line not blocking forward, 80 percent of the time the first motion of our line is to stand up.

[scrock]

[quote name='Natty Boh' timestamp='1321894527' post='880267']
Now in all fairness, I don't have the numbers on how the Ravens are on the year in 3rd and short situations when running the ball but it seems like they have trouble in that department.

Ray Rice is a great RB but unless he has proper blocking, he lacks the size to plow through for a 3rd and short. And when I say "short", I'm talking 2 yards or less. I know we have Vonta Leach and Ricky Williams but I don't have a lot more faith in them either in these situations. Maybe I'm just living in the past but I wish the Ravens had a backup RB built more like Jamal Lewis was. Not only could he get the short yardage on his own, but tackling him all game long really wore down a defense making it easier for the offense to kill the clock later in the game. A big bruising RB would compliment Ray Rice very well.
[/quote]

A lot of it has to do with scheme, and who power of will is strongest, Ray Rice has power, and he can easily make short yardage gains for a first down. What the problem is, is when all the defenders come unblocked and he gets hit in the backfield or at or near the line....

We ran on 1st down, ran on 2nd down, 3rd down and 2 yards to go, ran on 3rd down....short, didnt make it

Fix : Better run blocking, better scheme...all that outside run scheme crap..it never works, so many times during the game I was screaming to Cam...STOP IT!! JUST STOP....if u want to run, bust it up the gut just follow Leach..

The OL can block guys out, or box them out and that can open up holes to run through...I feel like we hurt ourselves because we over think things.... K I S S....

[wayne]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1321897849' post='880346']


There's a reason Madden geeks do this all the time...lol. You're absolutely right. Catch them off balance.
[/quote]

This^^^^^^^! Also, have a formation like a Far-Pro or Near with the threat of the pitch/sweep to throw D off balance with either giving it to Leach for a quick handoff up the gut or pitching it to the outside to Ray when the D has committed to the inside and Ray should be able to beat one man for the first down.

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='Natty Boh' timestamp='1321894527' post='880267']
Now in all fairness, I don't have the numbers on how the Ravens are on the year in 3rd and short situations when running the ball but it seems like they have trouble in that department.

[/quote]

Here's a stat source for % success attaining 1rst down on 3rd and short , rushing , by team :

[url="http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Rushing&range=NFL&rank=016"]http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Rushing&range=NFL&rank=016[/url]

Ravens are 23rd , at 42.9% success.

SF is last , at 27.1%.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BenDufusberger' timestamp='1322000957' post='881833']

Here's a stat source for % success attaining 1rst down on 3rd and short , rushing , by team :

[url="http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Rushing&range=NFL&rank=016"]http://stats.washing...ge=NFL&rank=016[/url]

Ravens are 23rd , at 42.9% success.

SF is last , at 27.1%.
[/quote]
thats enuough proof its not ray rice being to small thats the issue because frank gore is the opposite of rice and he cant get it done, its the blocking up front

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1322001388' post='881845']
thats enuough proof its not ray rice being to small thats the issue because frank gore is the opposite of rice and he cant get it done, its the blocking up front
[/quote]

Rice's number is a little better than the team as a whole , at 50% success. Gore is about the same , at 45.5 %.

[url="http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Rushing&range=NFL&rank=016"]http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Rushing&range=NFL&rank=016[/url]

A few successful runs in a row , or a few fails , can move these % numbers quite a bit , so it's a rough measure.

Which opponent's rush defenses you had to face also would swing the results.

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='Natty Boh' timestamp='1321895053' post='880284']
Yeah goal line has been good. I wish we could have gotten in one more time yesterday though and not settle for that FG.
[/quote]
maybe if the offense pretends the first down is the endzone we would convert it! silly idea ik!

[Azmo]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1321906297' post='880550']
hes injured and has been pretty much all year
[/quote]
Injury reports shows him back to full participation this week. I gotta agree in the pre-season the violence he ran with, he is a beast. He will be the perfect compliment to Ray on 3rd down situations and goal line situations. Since SF seems so good at stopping the run, I hope Allen gets some touches to soften up that front 7.

[Va BeaCh RaVeN]

Could you imagine if we somehow managed to keep Le'Ron as our back up RB. Him hitting the hole with leach leading the way......that would give any defense nightmares. Reminds me of Mcgahee behind Lorenzo!

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Va BeaCh RaVeN' timestamp='1322088756' post='882893']
Could you imagine if we somehow managed to keep Le'Ron as our back up RB. Him hitting the hole with leach leading the way......that would give any defense nightmares. Reminds me of Mcgahee behind Lorenzo!
[/quote]
McClain was a softie, IMO...never was a fan!

[CapoRocky]

Leech is averaging just over 2 yards a reception. Why do they bother trying to throw to our blocking back? Don't worry, we will be throwing a lot tomorrow night.