Made It Past Ron Winter

[hawkprey]

Obviously the highlight call today was the touchdown being reversed. But that was actually the correct call. Usually the call is right when they replay it.

But if you want to chime in that the officials won the game for the Ravens, you're far from close. In the 4th quarter, the Ravens had a chance to put the Bengals away. Ray Rice had a huge run to flip the field position and let the offense take a few more minutes off the clock. Instead, Torrey Smith fell while blocking and was called for something he really didn't do. The next play resulted in a big gain too, but was negated by a phantom hold on Oher. That left the Ravens with no possible way of staying on the field to eat up clock time and kick a field goal. It left the Ravens 60 yards behind where they could have been.

It's not the first time this year the Ravens have had big plays negated by penalties. It's not the first time a judgement call has kept the defense on the field or the offense off. Still, the team was able to overcome the setbacks and win the game.

The point is the Ravens WERE capable of putting the Bengals away before the Bengals rallied. The Ravens could have made this game look a lot less close than it was. This shows that even when the odds are against them, the Ravens can get the job done and this is something a previous Ravens team would not have been able to do. It's tough to win when some of your biggest plays are turned into big losses, but the Ravens overcame.

[theFRANCHISE]

Ron Winter's crew has called some horrible games in the past. This one was no exception, but surprisingly, it wasn't as bad as other games he and his guys have called. There were some bad calls both ways, but nothing that was truly game-breaking.

Bengals fans will forever argue that the erased TD was the officiating crew taking the game away from them, but quite frankly, the game should not have come down to one crucial score for either team. More often than not, the team that won the game, deserved to win because they made enough plays to overcome their own mistakes and the officials' calls.

[D-Rey]

I believe the call on Torrey was right, he blocked low which isn't legal. I don't think he fell. But the call on Oher shouldn't have been called.

[-Truth-]

I've heard of countless complaints from Bengals fans about the overturned Gresham TD. I personally believe it was the right call, and I believe that this is the angle that overturned it:

[img]http://i42.tinypic.com/262o7t1.jpg[/img]

The ball is clearly out of his palm, and by rule, a player is not allowed to use the ground in order to assist them in securing the ball.

[RavensAllTheWay]

I will know Ron Winters crew as being bad at officiating, and I will remember Ron Winter for getting run over.

[D-Rey]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1321856813' post='879857']
I've heard of countless complaints from Bengals fans about the overturned Gresham TD. I personally believe it was the right call, and I believe that this is the angle that overturned it:

[img]http://i42.tinypic.com/262o7t1.jpg[/img]

The ball is clearly out of his palm, and by rule, a player is not allowed to use the ground in order to assist them in securing the ball.
[/quote]
There should be no question about that call. It obviously wasn't in his possession at that point. It was the right call, but bad rule.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='D-Rey' timestamp='1321856958' post='879860']
There should be no question about that call. It obviously wasn't in his possession at that point. It was the right call, but bad rule.
[/quote]
Agreed on both accounts.

[CincyBengals1418]

I think this goes both ways, if you are on the receiving end of it as we were, you'd obviously have a different opinion on it. I'm pretty sure if that happened to the Ravens, you guys would be just as worked up as all of us in all fairness. It was tough to see and I obviously thought it was a catch, but it was called otherwise and nothing can be done about it, it's over and done with. Hopefully our fortunes will be a little better Week 17 and have less mistakes, because we had a lot of them.

[Ravensstrike4424]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1321856813' post='879857']
I've heard of countless complaints from Bengals fans about the overturned Gresham TD. I personally believe it was the right call, and I believe that this is the angle that overturned it:

[img]http://i42.tinypic.com/262o7t1.jpg[/img]

The ball is clearly out of his palm, and by rule, a player is not allowed to use the ground in order to assist them in securing the ball.
[/quote]

people can complain all they want,but by rule you have to secure the ball before going to the ground,you cant set it down

[ravens__]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1321856933' post='879859']
I will know Ron Winters crew as being bad at officiating, [b]and I will remember Ron Winter for getting run over.[/b]
[/quote]

Boy did that leave me with a grin on my face..

[BmoreRavens732]

Deion sanders actually took him prime time on NFL network lol it was funny as hell glad he's ok but the look on his face was priceless

[TXRaven]

I was really not happy when I learned that Winter and his crew had our game. Man I laughed so hard I was crying when Winter ended up in the bottom of the pile on the fumble. Although there were bad calls on both sides of the ball today. I think that was the best game I have ever seen him and his crew call.

[funky141]

I thought the game was called pretty well. T. Smith call was the correct call, can't block below the waste coming in from the side in the tackle box. Webb PI was the correct call and if anything I had question about the TD call that was overturned.

[EdReedFTW]

I know I cant be the only one who wished that Jameel would have put a shoulder down on him instead of just running through Ron Winter.

[D-Rey]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1321878524' post='879991']
I thought the game was called pretty well. T. Smith call was the correct call, can't block below the waste coming in from the side in the tackle box. Webb PI was the correct call and if anything I had question about the TD call that was overturned.
[/quote]
There's no question about that TD catch, the rule if a bad one is clear. He lost control of it when it hit the ground. I agree about the other things. Though the holding call on Oher was bad.

If the table were turned ya I would be mad about it, but I would except it because it would og been the right call. Even if it is a bad rule.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='CincyBengals1418' timestamp='1321860845' post='879917']
I think this goes both ways, if you are on the receiving end of it as we were, you'd obviously have a different opinion on it. I'm pretty sure if that happened to the Ravens, you guys would be just as worked up as all of us in all fairness. It was tough to see and I obviously thought it was a catch, but it was called otherwise and nothing can be done about it, it's over and done with. Hopefully our fortunes will be a little better Week 17 and have less mistakes, because we had a lot of them.
[/quote]

If we were on the receiving end, we'd be emphasizing the unfairness of the rule. But, since we benefited, we're talking more about how the call was technically correct.

The real reason that Gresham had to keep control of the ball to the ground is that he bobbled the ball when catching it. Therefore, he never had possession outside of the end zone. He had the ball in his hands just before entering the end zone, but his second foot hadn't touched the ground yet. His second foot touched inside the end zone, which means that possession was established inside the end zone and therefore he must keep control to the ground.

Receivers should just start making a habit of rolling onto their back as they go to the ground or something. Because Gresham clearly could have controlled that ball by just not letting it hit the ground.

[tctony]

Why do we think that TD rule is a bad rule? It's the same rule for any other catch on the field. You must maintain possession through the entirety of the catch, no matter where on the field you are.

[EdReedFTW]

[quote name='Ravens1990' timestamp='1321897623' post='880341']
Why do we think that TD rule is a bad rule? It's the same rule for any other catch on the field. You must maintain possession through the entirety of the catch, no matter where on the field you are.
[/quote]

Because he had possession of the ball, took 3+ steps and then went in the endzone, hit the ground and eventually the ball jostled. That should clearly be a touchdown. Its a bad rule. ALMOST as bad as the tuck rule

[funky141]

Good point I just heard. For example if a runner (QB, RB or anybody) holds the ball across the white goal line, TD, no exceptions.

So, Gresham gets control of the ball, two feet down (we all can agree on that) holds the ball across the goal line

Why is that not a TD too?

I'm still willing to bet the NFL will come out later this week and say that should have beena TD.

[bpytnjr58]

There was a lot of holding going on all day on both sides which by surprise were not called but i was most surprised by the reversal on that TD call...with Winter out there i knew the call was going to stand but it worked out for the Ravens....Some of those guys need to retire.

[tctony]

[quote name='EdReedFTW' timestamp='1321898284' post='880356']

Because he had possession of the ball, took 3+ steps and then went in the endzone, hit the ground and eventually the ball jostled. That should clearly be a touchdown. Its a bad rule. ALMOST as bad as the tuck rule
[/quote]

Nope. He did not establish possession of the ball UNTIL he was in the end zone. Therefore, the rule that applies to all catches applies here. He must maintain possession of the ball through the entirety of the catch...he did not. The ground helped him control the ball, which according to rules that have been in place for a long time, make it not a catch.

Does it look like a catch to the naked eye? Sure. But thats why we have replay.

[BmoreRavens732]

The receiver never took 3 steps? He juggled the ball n barely got 2feet in!! Good call but dum rule

[PuRock]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1321898505' post='880362']
Good point I just heard. For example if a runner (QB, RB or anybody) holds the ball across the white goal line, TD, no exceptions.

So, Gresham gets control of the ball, two feet down (we all can agree on that) holds the ball across the goal line

Why is that not a TD too?

I'm still willing to bet the NFL will come out later this week and say that should have beena TD.
[/quote]

Running the ball carries different rules than forward passes. Running the ball assumes you have full control of the ball (from the very begginning even if you are bumbling the ball) and all the ball has to do is break the plane. Forward pass rules state that a catch has to be completed throughout the whole process (even if the ball breaks the plane).

Two different sets of possession rules.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='CincyBengals1418' timestamp='1321860845' post='879917']
I think this goes both ways, if you are on the receiving end of it as we were, you'd obviously have a different opinion on it. I'm pretty sure if that happened to the Ravens, you guys would be just as worked up as all of us in all fairness. It was tough to see and I obviously thought it was a catch, but it was called otherwise and nothing can be done about it, it's over and done with. Hopefully our fortunes will be a little better Week 17 and have less mistakes, because we had a lot of them.
[/quote]


Wrong. The only opinion that would change is that we would be sorry it happened to us. It was, by rule, the correct call. No debating that fact.
We have had many obviously bad calls go against us that have been proven, after the fact, to be bad calls. This does not come close to being put in that category.

You can wish for less mistakes in the next game, but understand that our D threw in a real stinker yesterday. If the New Year's Day game means anything for us, look for a much better performance from the Ravens and no 500 yards of cincy offense!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1321898505' post='880362']
Good point I just heard. For example if a runner (QB, RB or anybody) holds the ball across the white goal line, TD, no exceptions.

So, Gresham gets control of the ball, two feet down (we all can agree on that) holds the ball across the goal line

Why is that not a TD too?

I'm still willing to bet the NFL will come out later this week and say that should have beena TD.
[/quote]
Isnt it because he was falling down as he entered the end zone from a catch and therefore has to complete the movement? His completed movement included him losing control of the ball.

[Hardbaugh]

I felt the Ravens offense should have been on the field at the time of the call, not a few plays earlier a Bengal reciever caught a ball, had it punched out after making a football move while taking two steps. The way I saw it was clearly a fumble. The Oher holding call was attrocious, I can't tell you how many big plays the Ravens have had called back this season.