Joe Flacco Vs Alex Smith

[1/28/01]

[quote name='CowboyH8er' timestamp='1321986030' post='881558']
Alex may not be better according to stats, But He is Better in W-L.

Alex and the 49ers have beat some quality Defenses, Detroit, NYG, Philly, and put up a Good Numbers against Dallas.

What Alex has done is keep his team from taking anyone too lightly, say like lowly teams like Seattle, Jacksonville, and Tenn.

This Gane wont come down to which QB is better anyways, Because the Defensive battles will take them out.

This Game will come down to Special teams, and the field position that they give the Offense to be able to score....

Low scoring....10-9, A late field goal wins it...
[/quote]
Giants D is poop and the Eagles are exposed every other game!

[keebl3rs]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1322006658' post='881954']
Giants D is poop and the Eagles are exposed every other game!
[/quote]

So true, Giants D this year is nothing like they've been in recent years past.

These 49ers fans are crazy man..
"Best Defense of the LAST Decade (referring to Ravens), This is a New Decade and a New Defense will Own this Decade...."

Is it Thursday yet? Can't come soon enough!

[lowrider]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1322005615' post='881938']
Really? I love the 49ers and all, but there is NO ARGUMENT that Alex Smith is better or even in the same league as Flacco.
[/quote]
I agree 100%. Flacco has won more and been more consistent in the league. Flacco may not be an elite qb, but he has performed very well in the league since he got drafted. Smith has been considered a bust until this year

[hawkprey]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1322007180' post='881971']
I agree 100%. Flacco has won more and been more consistent in the league. Flacco may not be an elite qb, but he has performed very well in the league since he got drafted. Smith has been considered a bust until this year
[/quote]
He's still a bust. 1st pick in the draft and he needed the best O-line in the league to have a good stretch of games. I mean some people think Eli Manning is a bust, and he got a Super Bowl ring by throwing against a 18-0 team.

[ball hawkin 20]

Here's how i see it. If Flacco is playing good (Steelers, Rams, Texans, Ari 2nd half, Pitt, and Cinci) he's far better. I would call Joe the ultimate game manager as someone else said, he can win you the game, and be an excellent game mananger. Alex Smith they just ask to dink and dunk and rack up YAC and don't be stupid. The wildcard though is that Joe has played really great defenses this year, while the verdict on Alex is still out (Giants don't count, Cinci debateable). I think this will be a real test for Alex since he hasn't faced an elite D this year. You can also say the 49ers D can be overrated, because really they haven't played a top 10 offense yet.

[H8R]

[quote name='Texas9erFan' timestamp='1321992557' post='881673']

Wow. From the tone of your posts, I never would have guessed.
[/quote]

"If they're in a different colored jersey... They get KNOCKED out" -Ray Lewis

The 9ers are no longer my #1.

[H8R]

[quote name='CowboyH8er' timestamp='1321995278' post='881707']


This game will barely get into the teens.....

I dont abolish the rest of his career, Just that now he has a coach that coaches his strengths instead of forcing him to do something he cant.
[/quote]


Keep thinking we can't score points.......
In come Cam Cameron and Joe Flacco, yet Flacco is still succeeded.

[Texas9erFan]

[quote name='RayRiceRunningfortheRavns' timestamp='1322006492' post='881951']
this isn't a good comparison. both are good at what their system asks them to do.

Nobody asks a lot from Alex. ask him to make a bunch of short/intermediate completions and the 49'ers WR's RAC gets him the majority of his yards. They ask him to hand the ball to Frank Gore and let him turn up the heat on the opposing defense. They ask him to keep drives alive so that their defense can stay fresh and dominate when they come out.

Flacco is asked to win ballgames. the ravens success is reliant as much on Flacco's success as it is on the defense's success. The ravens live and die by Joe's arms.

The niners arent in that position, [b]their system isn't built like that. In a way, the niners are a better team because they rely on every member of the team to win games[/b].
[/quote]
Most of what you say here is 100% accurate. Particularly the bolded part.

I've been posting on a lot of teams message boards this year and had similar debates with other fans of other teams. And the one thing that it seems I can never get across is that [b]the QB does not make a team[/b]. Football is a TEAM SPORT. At any given time there are 22 players on the field. Eleven on offense, eleven on defense and eleven on each ST squad. Every player has a specific job to do. And for the most part, every player relies on his teammates to do their part or the play fails.

Most fans, but not all, look at the game like a fantasy football team. They look for players that put up huge yardage stats because that's what works in the FF world. And sure, stats don't lie. But they don't tell the entire story either. A couple/few years back the SD Chargers had the #1 offense and #1 defense in the NFL but went 9-7 and failed to make the playoffs. This year the Packers have the #2 rated offense and one of the worst defenses in the league but are still undefeated. Do I need to even mention what Tebow is doing???

The QB is certainly important as the leader of the offense. But if he doesn't have a good team(and coaches) around him, he could be the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning [b]and still fail[/b].

I look at Alex Smith as a QB who coulda been an elite QB but failed because of the coaching staff and the players around him. He got beat down physically and mentally. Now he has good players and coaches and he just may turn into a very good, but probably not elite, QB. No one can say for sure how well he'll do. Only time will tell. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/football.gif[/img]

[keebl3rs]

[quote name='Texas9erFan' timestamp='1322014903' post='882058']
Most of what you say here is 100% accurate. Particularly the bolded part.

I've been posting on a lot of teams message boards this year and had similar debates with other fans of other teams. And the one thing that it seems I can never get across is that [b]the QB does not make a team. Football is a TEAM SPORT[/b]. At any given time there are 22 players on the field. Eleven on offense, eleven on defense and eleven on each ST squad. Every player has a specific job to do. And for the most part, every player relies on his teammates to do their part or the play fails.

Most fans, but not all, look at the game like a fantasy football team. They look for players that put up huge yardage stats because that's what works in the FF world. And sure, stats don't lie. But they don't tell the entire story either. A couple/few years back the SD Chargers had the #1 offense and #1 defense in the NFL but went 9-7 and failed to make the playoffs. This year the Packers have the #2 rated offense and one of the worst defenses in the league but are still undefeated. Do I need to even mention what Tebow is doing???

The QB is certainly important as the leader of the offense. But if he doesn't have a good team(and coaches) around him, he could be the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning [b]and still fail[/b].

I look at Alex Smith as a QB who coulda been an elite QB but failed because of the coaching staff and the players around him. He got beat down physically and mentally. Now he has good players and coaches and he just may turn into a very good, but probably not elite, QB. No one can say for sure how well he'll do. Only time will tell. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/football.gif[/img]
[/quote]

True, unless you're the Colts. LOL

[Ravenslifer]

I really don't like to throw around the "elite" label on quarterbacks. To me, an elite quarterback is one who lead their team to a Superbowl victory, and even then needs to be consistent. I really hesitate on crowning Rivers elite, and even now I hesitate to call Eli elite. Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, and Roethlisberger are the only quarterbacks I feel absolutely comfortable with calling elite. That's all. You can make arguments for others for and against, but I think these 5 guys are guys you say are undeniably elite. After that it's a toss up to me. But if we're talking about Flacco, he is certainly more than a game manager. His rookie season he managed the game. He threw about 25 times a game, didn't crack 300 yards in any game, and was asked not to turn the ball over. 2009 he was asked to do more, he had several 300 yard games, had to keep us in games. 2010 he threw less but was more efficient, was given more responsibility.

This year, however, he is basically being asked to win a lot of games on his own. He's thrown over 45 times in 4 games this year already, and less than 30 only twice (interestingly, those were his two best starts of the year). I might not like the balance this offense has shown this year, but I can't deny that for the most part, it has run almost entirely through the arm of Joe Flacco. He is winning games and losing them. That is not what a game manager is. Ray Rice is on pace to have about 250 rushing attempts this season, maybe he'll have more if Cam gets smart. Compare that to Joe Flacco, who's right now on pace to throw over 600 times this season. That's more than double what Rice may get to, which is ridiculous in my opinion, but it is what may happen.

Alex Smith will, if his trend continues, throw about 440 times this season. That's lower than at any point in Joe's career except his rookie season, in which he threw 430 times. But Alex has only ever thrown 400 times or more one season in his 6 seasons playing. To be fair, Alex has only once played a full 16 game season, but the fact that if he does this year it will only be the second time in his career that he's done so, shows how little he is actually relied upon to win games for his team. If you want, you can project stats from every one of his seasons to get an idea of how many attempts he may have had playing a full season that year. But never once, if you do, will that number cross 400. Smith is just not asked to throw the football very much. That, to me, is a game manager. Joe is asked to throw the football much more, in many cases more than he probably should. Call it what you want, but Joe is not a game manager. To compare what he's done to Alex Smith is irrelevant to me, because in my mind, while they play the same position, they have two different jobs. A better comparison to Alex, to me, is Mark Sanchez. Alex is a much better quarterback, but they're both still asked to do the same thing.

What will be interesting to see is what will happen Thursday. If the Ravens can sustain drives and score some points, it may force the 49ers to have to rely on Smith's arm to win. He's proven that he can do it on occasion, but not against an elite defense like the Ravens, not yet anyway. I think, with the way both defenses are playing, we'll get a good idea of how Flacco and Smith compare to each other Thursday night.

[bacchys]

I haven't seen much of Smith this year, just a few quarters of the Cardinals game Sunday. I've been happy for the Niners success since former Ravens QB Jim Harbaugh is their head coach, and Terp Vernon Davis (who is a Beast!) was one of my favourite players for Maryland.

I've taken heat over the years for saying I didn't think Smith was a bad QB. He was a QB in a bad situation. It didn't help that the plethora of coaching staffs he's been under couldn't make up their mind whether or not Smith was The Guy or not, and it never seemed to me that they had a good offensive system in place for him. The secret to good coaching is to adapt the system to the players, and it never looked like the Niners were really doing that for Smith.

Harbaugh seems to have found a way to make Smith effective. He'll probably get better as the year goes on and into next year, especially if they can keep this identity of running the football and strong defense.

Between the two I'd give the nod to Flacco, though this year that's a far closer comparison than the past three years. Flacco's ability to deliver the deep strike has made this a radically different Ravens team than most Ravens fans are accustomed to seeing. We've seen more long passes this year than any since Testaverde was run out of town, it seems, and perhaps even more than we saw when a Testaverde-led offense was averaging 31 points a game. However, consistency is a problem. Unlike some, I don't put all of that on Flacco. The line play has been inconsistent, and the receiving corps for the bulk of this season has had only two players (Boldin and Rice) who needed more than one hand to count the number of NFL receptions they had before the season started. Expecting consistency in that situation is foolish.

So, instead of consistency from Flacco this year we've had more than the usual flashes of brilliance. Three touchdowns to Smith in one quarter (albeit against the lowly Rams). An amazing 92 yard drive to beat the then-number 2 defense in the NFL where he overcame pressure and drops by his receivers to pull victory from the jaws of defeat with the clock winding down. A record-setting come from behind win against the Cardinals.

A question for the Niners fans: Flacco's shown Ravens fans (those who aren't inveterate Flacco-haters) that he's able to overcome poor play on his own part and that of others. He doesn't seem to let it bother him or affect his play. Has Smith shown the same ability?

[ravensdfan]

To date this season Alex Smith's longest pass is 44 yds. The bulk of his attempts are less than 20 yds.

Flacco's longest is 74. The bulk of his attempts have been over 20 yards. (a high percentage over 40 yards)

Flacco>Smith.

The key is forcing Smith to have to pass downfield.

[Ray Ray Ravens]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1322016170' post='882075']
I really don't like to throw around the "elite" label on quarterbacks. To me, an elite quarterback is one who lead their team to a Superbowl victory, and even then needs to be consistent. I really hesitate on crowning Rivers elite, and even now I hesitate to call Eli elite. Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, and Roethlisberger are the only quarterbacks I feel absolutely comfortable with calling elite. That's all. You can make arguments for others for and against, but I think these 5 guys are guys you say are undeniably elite. After that it's a toss up to me. But if we're talking about Flacco, he is certainly more than a game manager. His rookie season he managed the game. He threw about 25 times a game, didn't crack 300 yards in any game, and was asked not to turn the ball over. 2009 he was asked to do more, he had several 300 yard games, had to keep us in games. 2010 he threw less but was more efficient, was given more responsibility.

This year, however, he is basically being asked to win a lot of games on his own. He's thrown over 45 times in 4 games this year already, and less than 30 only twice (interestingly, those were his two best starts of the year). I might not like the balance this offense has shown this year, but I can't deny that for the most part, it has run almost entirely through the arm of Joe Flacco. He is winning games and losing them. That is not what a game manager is. Ray Rice is on pace to have about 250 rushing attempts this season, maybe he'll have more if Cam gets smart. Compare that to Joe Flacco, who's right now on pace to throw over 600 times this season. That's more than double what Rice may get to, which is ridiculous in my opinion, but it is what may happen.

Alex Smith will, if his trend continues, throw about 440 times this season. That's lower than at any point in Joe's career except his rookie season, in which he threw 430 times. But Alex has only ever thrown 400 times or more one season in his 6 seasons playing. To be fair, Alex has only once played a full 16 game season, but the fact that if he does this year it will only be the second time in his career that he's done so, shows how little he is actually relied upon to win games for his team. If you want, you can project stats from every one of his seasons to get an idea of how many attempts he may have had playing a full season that year. But never once, if you do, will that number cross 400. Smith is just not asked to throw the football very much. That, to me, is a game manager. Joe is asked to throw the football much more, in many cases more than he probably should. Call it what you want, but Joe is not a game manager. To compare what he's done to Alex Smith is irrelevant to me, because in my mind, while they play the same position, they have two different jobs. A better comparison to Alex, to me, is Mark Sanchez. Alex is a much better quarterback, but they're both still asked to do the same thing.

What will be interesting to see is what will happen Thursday. If the Ravens can sustain drives and score some points, it may force the 49ers to have to rely on Smith's arm to win. He's proven that he can do it on occasion, but not against an elite defense like the Ravens, not yet anyway. I think, with the way both defenses are playing, we'll get a good idea of how Flacco and Smith compare to each other Thursday night.
[/quote]
You fixed it but i thought you called him sanchez on purpose was gonna quote and say i see what you did there .

[49erinMD]

[quote name='bacchys' timestamp='1322017526' post='882094']
A question for the Niners fans: Flacco's shown Ravens fans (those who aren't inveterate Flacco-haters) that he's able to overcome poor play on his own part and that of others. He doesn't seem to let it bother him or affect his play. Has Smith shown the same ability?
[/quote]

I created an account just to reply to this. Smith has been beaten down by the media, both local and national, berated by all fans, both 49er and opposing fans. He's been thrown under the bus by 2 head coaches in Mike Nolan and Mike Singletary, who replaced him with QBs such as Shaun Hill, JT O'Sullivan, your formerly very own Troy Smith, David Carr. He's had season ending shoulder surgery. He's had 7 different offensive coordinators.

And yet, he's still here... having the best season of his career, and by any objective standard, a very efficient, and respectable season.

His stats over the last 3 seasons are respectable as well... 2010 and 2009 his QB rating was over 80... not impressive, but not as terrible as non-49er fans would think. He's certainly a conservative QB, as he prefers the intermediate/shorter route to move the chains rather than going deep. But he will go deep if that's what the defense gives him. But that doesn't mean he's a "game manager" in the deleterious sense, where he does barely enough to win.

He's the QB!! He has a hand in every offensive snap! Smith doesn't just throw checkdowns like people seem to think. You can't win football games consistently by just throwing check downs and short routes (See: Fitzpatrick, Ryan). I have full confidence that Smith can air it out and throw 35 times without self-destructing... but why do what the Ravens do and bomb it out every other play to Smith when you have Ray Rice and guys over the middle like Boldin/Dickson/Pitta?? There's a reason why the niners call it more conservative: Because we win games that way. Otherwise, I'd think the Ravens would also be 9-1 like the 49ers.

[Texas9erFan]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1322016170' post='882075']
I really don't like to throw around the "elite" label on quarterbacks. To me, an elite quarterback is one who lead their team to a Superbowl victory, and even then needs to be consistent. I really hesitate on crowning Rivers elite, and even now I hesitate to call Eli elite. Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, and Roethlisberger are the only quarterbacks I feel absolutely comfortable with calling elite. That's all. [/quote]
Yup. Except I wouldn't call Roethlisberger elite... just very good or maybe great but not elite.

[quote]
Smith is just not asked to throw the football very much. That, to me, is a game manager. Joe is asked to throw the football much more, in many cases more than he probably should. Call it what you want, but Joe is not a game manager. [/quote]

What is or isn't a "game manager" is a good question. But I think most people get the answer wrong and use the term in a somewhat durogatory fashion. As if a game manager has lesser abilities.
Abilities for what???
Lots of yards don't put points on the board. The ability to escape the pocket and a blitz doesn't put points on the board. Durability doesn't put points on the board. A good game manager wins game regardless of all the flowery stats.

There are plenty of QBs in the league with strong arms and a passing game. Take Rivers for example. He has great arm strength and a very good passing game. But he is losing. His offense fails. He's a lousy game manager.
Michael Vick has a great arm and is a dynamic runner who makes big plays using both... but his team is losing too. His offense fails. He's a lousy game manager.
Aaron Rodgers has a great arm, incredible accuracy and fins ways to make his team win despite a lousy defense. The Packers are 10-0. He's a GREAT game manager.
Alex Smith uses every player on the offense to find ways to win while his defense keeps the score low. The Niners are 9-1 He's a GREAT game manager too.
So the idea I'm trying to get across is that being a game manager is not a measure of TD passes or some other measurable stat. It's a separate skill. And it's a skill that every QB in league must be good at to be successful.

[quote]What will be interesting to see is what will happen Thursday. If the Ravens can sustain drives and score some points, it may force the 49ers to have to rely on Smith's arm to win. He's proven that he can do it on occasion, but not against an elite defense like the Ravens, not yet anyway. I think, with the way both defenses are playing, we'll get a good idea of how Flacco and Smith compare to each other Thursday night.
[/quote] Well that's why we play the game. But I say it's a battle between teams, not quarterbacks.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Ray Ray Ravens' timestamp='1322019176' post='882123']
You fixed it but i thought you called him sanchez on purpose was gonna quote and say i see what you did there .
[/quote]

I have tons of respect for Alex Smith. He had an opportunity to take the 40 million remaining on his contract and bolt, but he opted to restructure for 5 million a year in order to prove the team that he was worth the pick they spent. The fans in San Francisco were killing him for years, but he wanted to stay and give them a chance to believe in him. You know the first impression I had of Sanchez? He posed in freaking GQ with a model, in an article titled "The Bright New Face of the NFL", before even taking a snap. Reminds me of that Vince Young commercial from 5 years ago where he was proclaimed "Next". Alex Smith may never amount to anything more than a glorified game manager, but Sanchez flat out can't play, and yet somehow his team gets to 2 AFCC Games and he's labeled "a winner" and "a big game quarterback." Comparing someone to Sanchez is one of the worst insults I could give to a quarterback. There may be only two I can think of that are worse, Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell, and only then because they are not just poor quarterbacks, but they're poor examples of humanity.

[keebl3rs]

Honestly, the sole reason I started this thread was because I found it funny that some 49ers fans were basically saying Flacco can throw the deep ball.. and that's it.. Smith is > Flacco in any other regard.

I think Smith is playing well too.. but I'm not crowning the guy just yet and I certainly wouldn't say hes done anything to make me think he can go 80 yards on an elite defense if he needed too or bring his team back from a 3 TD deficit..

49ers have their first winning season in years and he's being crowned. Meanwhile, Joe still can't get any respect. That's cool, we'll see Thursday. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Texas9erFan' timestamp='1322024588' post='882201']
Yup. Except I wouldn't call Roethlisberger elite... just very good or maybe great but not elite.



What is or isn't a "game manager" is a good question. But I think most people get the answer wrong and use the term in a somewhat durogatory fashion. As if a game manager has lesser abilities.
Abilities for what???
Lots of yards don't put points on the board. The ability to escape the pocket and a blitz doesn't put points on the board. Durability doesn't put points on the board. A good game manager wins game regardless of all the flowery stats.

There are plenty of QBs in the league with strong arms and a passing game. Take Rivers for example. He has great arm strength and a very good passing game. But he is losing. His offense fails. He's a lousy game manager.
Michael Vick has a great arm and is a dynamic runner who makes big plays using both... but his team is losing too. His offense fails. He's a lousy game manager.
Aaron Rodgers has a great arm, incredible accuracy and fins ways to make his team win despite a lousy defense. The Packers are 10-0. He's a GREAT game manager.
Alex Smith uses every player on the offense to find ways to win while his defense keeps the score low. The Niners are 9-1 He's a GREAT game manager too.
So the idea I'm trying to get across is that being a game manager is not a measure of TD passes or some other measurable stat. It's a separate skill. And it's a skill that every QB in league must be good at to be successful.

Well that's why we play the game. But I say it's a battle between teams, not quarterbacks.
[/quote]

As far as what I would define as a game manager, it's someone I don't believe you can consistently rely on to win you games. But it's also someone who won't lose you many games. And you can definitely win big with one. I'd say Brad Johnson of the 2002 Bucs was a good example. He had a good season, and Alex is right now having a better one, but the fact is the teams around them are so talented they don't have to do anything. Alex hasn't had to do much more than throw 24-25 times a game this season, and he has a ton of talent on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball helping him. His offensive line is one of the best in football and he has two fist round draft picks at receiver and one at tight end. Joe has a similar defense, but his offense, especially the line, are severely lacking. He's working with guys who before this season had started zero regular season games, and an offensive line made of cast offs, players way past their primes, young guys who we still don't know can play, and most importantly, no true blindside defender. Guys we have like Gurode and McKinnie are not only past their primes, but they were cut by their previous teams do to either injury or just flat not playing well. Joe is playing with an Anquan Boldin who a lot of people say has lost a step, a rookie receiver in Torrey Smith who is prone to drops and still doesn't have his timing down with Joe - Torrey's admitted that there have been more than a few plays this season where he flat out didn't anticipate the ball would be coming to him at all, or that it would be coming with that kind of velocity. Joe's supposed number 2 receiver, Lee Evans, has missed half the season. Michael Oher struggled at left tackle so we had to move him back to the right, and he's struggled a few times there as well. Matt Birk is 35 years old and is clearly not even the same player he was when he first came to Baltimore 3 years ago. As inconsistent as Joe has been this season, he's still managed some spectacular games against the NFl's best: we've played only 2 defense ranked outside of the top 15. if things weren't in such chaos around him, he would have been even better.

And ... drumroll please, Alex has the biggest advantage of all ... he has a great quarterback coach and offensive mind in Jim Harbaugh. Joe is stuck trying to work his way through the quagmire that is Cam Cameron and his ridiculous offensive system. Most of the time, Cam is like an extra advantage to our opponents. To be honest with you, I can't believe we've won as many games as we have given how poorly a lot of our games have been called.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Would you trade Joe Flacco for Alex Smith? I wouldn't. IMHO there's no comparison between the two. Right now, Alex Smith is having a good year because he throws a lot of dink and dunk passes just like "The Great Joe Montana" did. Of course, that's where the comparison between Smith and Montana ends. Smith is surrounded by some talented offensive players. He does a good job of managing the "West Coast" offense but he's not in the same league with Joe Cool. If our O line does its job and our D keeps some good pressure on Smith, it will be a long, cold night for Smith. Joe Flacco gets too little credit when we win and too much blame when we lose. Its a team sport. Hopefully, the coaches will put together a great game plan and the players will execute it flawlessly so that the naysayers like Skip Bayless will have nothing else to crow about after Thursday night.

[Marmatag]

Hi guys, 49ers fan here... been following this team through the good, and the bad, and now, hopefully, to the good again. I'm going to list some pros that i've seen for both QBs and compare those.

Alex Smith:
Let's face it, you don't go 9-1 with a game manager unless you have an all-time defense, and rushing attack. We have neither. Alex Smith has made some great plays this year, and kept us in games. He runs the offense. Most people don't see this. The big runs frank gore gets agains the lions for example, Smith audibles to the run and adjusts the blocking scheme at the line. People think that was just a run play but it wasn't. That was Alex dictating the scheme to attack the Lions weakness. Granted, we DO have a great back in Frank Gore. But he still made it happen by using his brain.

That is Smith's biggest strength - his intellect. His mechanics are weak. He has permanent arm damage from the Nolan days when they made him play when he needed surgury. (Grade 3 separation i think it was, and they called him weak, made him play... exascerbated the condition...) He's a smart dude. He spends a TON of time watching film, and will know how to attack your defense. Now, whether or not he can actually execute on what he knows and sees - that's the big question.

What worries me about your defense, at least from a passing perspective, is Ed Reed & your pass rush. I know you guys have a potent line, Ngata is your Justin Smith, easily in the conversation for best d-lineman in football. Reed will also have studied alex's tendencies and be there disrupt things. I think this will come down to Alex being forced to execute perfectly from a mechanical standpoint, and that will be tough for him. It happened against detroit - made the right reads, made the right audibles, but threw inaccurately, or wobbly passes. (Granted Delanie did drop a TD pass that would have boosted his QBR significantly).

Joe Flacco:
Flacco seems like a physically gifted guy who can drop dimes on deep routes. Your receivers are also big enough to bail him out, however i have seen you guys having a similar problem to us - dropped passes. It's infuriating and it makes your QB's stats look bad. Flacco has a high ceiling. He hasn't missed the playoffs yet, and people say it's your defense and running game, but that kind of consistency can't happen without a good QB. Your defense is not what it once was. That's not a knock on the defense, it's a + for Flacco and the offense.

I don't watch you guys enough to really say much more than that, but based on the highlights ive seen, Flacco is having a down year. Wayyy down. One game you guys will rofltstomp the steelers, and another you'll get killed by the Sheittle Shehawks, or win a close game against Crapazona. I don't get it.

In summation, I like both QBs. Hard to say who will have more success really. As a total homer, every fiber of me wants to say Smith, but as an objective fan it's hard to make any final determination. This game will be decided by other positions that directly affect QB play, but the average non-49er non-raven fan will be too dumb to notice.

Cheers!
-Marmatag

[frozen joe flacco fan]

There is no comparison between these two QBs. Joe Flacco is a proven veteran now with three straight playoff appearances. Would anyone want to trade him to SF for Alex Smith? Alex is making a living throwing the same dink and dunk passes that made Joe Montana and the "West Coast" offense famous. Its effective but boring. Joe has learned how to stretch the field now that he has some fast receivers and they will just get better and better at it as the season progresses. Its just a matter of getting on the same page and getting the timing and rhythm down. If I had one game to win on Thanksgiving night and could pick between Joe and Alex to be my QB, there is no question who I'd choose --- Frozen Joe Flacco. He is not just Joe Cool; he has ice in his veins and is unflappable. If our O line and defense do their jobs on Thursday night, the only Smiths they will be talking about on Friday morning will be Torrey and Jimmy.

[keebl3rs]

[quote name='Marmatag' timestamp='1322077795' post='882692']

Your defense is not what it once was. That's not a knock on the defense, it's a + for Flacco and the offense.

[/quote]

I don't understand this at all.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='keebl3rs' timestamp='1322085794' post='882828']

I don't understand this at all.
[/quote]
He's saying our 4TH RANKED DEFENSE is not what has us at 7-3 right now, but the offense and Flacco are.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1322086230' post='882839']
He's saying our 4TH RANKED DEFENSE is not what has us at 7-3 right now, but the offense and Flacco are.
[/quote]

It depends which way you look at it as they've both played a huge part. The defense has been the major reason we have 7 wins. The offense has been the reason we have three losses.

[RayRiceRunningfortheRavns]

[quote name='Texas9erFan' timestamp='1322014903' post='882058']
Most of what you say here is 100% accurate. Particularly the bolded part.

I've been posting on a lot of teams message boards this year and had similar debates with other fans of other teams. And the one thing that it seems I can never get across is that [b]the QB does not make a team[/b]. Football is a TEAM SPORT. At any given time there are 22 players on the field. Eleven on offense, eleven on defense and eleven on each ST squad. Every player has a specific job to do. And for the most part, every player relies on his teammates to do their part or the play fails.

Most fans, but not all, look at the game like a fantasy football team. They look for players that put up huge yardage stats because that's what works in the FF world. And sure, stats don't lie. But they don't tell the entire story either. A couple/few years back the SD Chargers had the #1 offense and #1 defense in the NFL but went 9-7 and failed to make the playoffs. This year the Packers have the #2 rated offense and one of the worst defenses in the league but are still undefeated. Do I need to even mention what Tebow is doing???

The QB is certainly important as the leader of the offense. But if he doesn't have a good team(and coaches) around him, he could be the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning [b]and still fail[/b].

I look at Alex Smith as a QB who coulda been an elite QB but failed because of the coaching staff and the players around him. He got beat down physically and mentally. Now he has good players and coaches and he just may turn into a very good, but probably not elite, QB. No one can say for sure how well he'll do. Only time will tell. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/football.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Thanks for the response. I tried to answer the question in the least homer-ific way i could. The one thing I could say about Flacco being a better QB than Smith is that if they switched teams, Flacco would succeed but Smith would not due to his weak arm strength. The knock on Flacco though is that we don't know if he can audible. I won't say that he can't, but in the Raven's system, it doesn't seem like it's allowed by the Evil Offensive Overlord Cam Cameron. Which brings up another point to this, if Smith couldn't audible, would he be any good?

[RayRiceRunningfortheRavns]

[quote name='keebl3rs' timestamp='1322085794' post='882828']

I don't understand this at all.
[/quote]

he's saying our defense isn't as historically strong as it was in 2000 (try arguing against that...) and it's because Flacco is a good quarterback that our team is successful.

He's not saying our defense is bad, but that our offense is good.

[codizzle]

[quote name='RayRiceRunningfortheRavns' timestamp='1322091156' post='882936']


he's saying our defense isn't as historically strong as it was in 2000 (try arguing against that...) and it's because Flacco is a good quarterback that our team is successful.

He's not saying our defense is bad, but that our offense is good.
[/quote]
yea its the normal response for any basic fan... Oh well ur defense isnt as good as it used to be..
Been hearing that for five years now...
Funny stuff..
The more i get ready for this game the more i believe we will win convincingly.. Not saying a blowout just a controling win..
Maybe im too confident in the favt that its a home game but i see some good stuff happening with torrey n lee tomorrow night

[RayRiceRunningfortheRavns]

It'll be a close game, I'm going with the Ravens on this one too. But there are so many homers on this board that i felt it needed to be spelled out.

[Texas9erFan]

[quote name='frozen joe flacco fan' timestamp='1322078429' post='882704']
Frozen Joe Flacco. He is not just Joe Cool; he has ice in his veins and is unflappable. [/quote]
[color=#4B0082][i][size=6][b]"Frozen Joe"[/b][/size][/i][/color]

[b]YES![/b] You should call him that instead.

[True]

Ignoring all the success/stats between the two players, I'd just look at it in how much NFL experience they have and their current age.

Joe has started every game since his rookie year and has consistently gotten better every year. He's in his 4th season and is only going to get to ascend his play. Alex Smith is in his 6th season and has finally played consistent football this year. He hasn't shown it in the biggest stage and playoffs yet. He will have the chances and opportunities and we will have to see how he responds, but as of now he isn't there yet. Joe has shown his ability to win big games when all eyes are on him (SNF against the Steelers) and has won a playoff game in each of his first three seasons.

He's battle-tested and has a ton of NFL experience due to playing every game in his career. In the end who's upside is better? I'll take Joe Flacco because of his young age and substantially more NFL experience and accolades earned. His quantified NFL success is much more than that of Smith's and we have expected him to take the Ravens to the Super Bowl since his second year! Imagine the pressure of that and Joe has always gotten us close so I'll stick with him.