The Overturned Touchdown

[bmore187]

it was not a TD

[Ravensstrike4424]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1321831281' post='879130']
I am the only one willing to admit that it was indeed a touch down and it was a bad call ?
[/quote]

your wrong if you thought it was a touchdown,by rule if your going to the ground you need to have controle of the ball you cant set it on the ground,correct call,good no touchdown

[dad2dj]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1321831381' post='879133']
Weird rule, but technically the correct call.
[/quote]
I second that.

[CincyBengals1418]

Former Vice President of Officiating in the National Football League, Mike Pereira says it should have been a TD, so I'll agree with him!

http://twitter.com/#!/MikePereira/status/138362155278925824

[gabefergy]

[quote name='CincyBengals1418' timestamp='1321862880' post='879935']
Former Vice President of Officiating in the National Football League, Mike Pereira says it should have been a TD, so I'll agree with him! [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]

[url="http://twitter.com/#!/MikePereira/status/138362155278925824"]http://twitter.com/#...362155278925824[/url]
[/quote]
hmmm, maybe thats why he is the [i]former[/i] VP of Officiating [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/happy.png[/img] By definition the officials made the right call. I think the rule is stupid, but it is what it is.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='CincyBengals1418' timestamp='1321862880' post='879935']
Former Vice President of Officiating in the National Football League, Mike Pereira says it should have been a TD, so I'll agree with him! [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]

[url="http://twitter.com/#!/MikePereira/status/138362155278925824"]http://twitter.com/#...362155278925824[/url]
[/quote]

Well someone better check their rule book. Exact same call in the Bears/SD game and was also ruled incomplete by rule.

Either way, you guys get 7 there and we don't go to that soft D on your last drive. We'd have been more aggressive if you only needed a FG and more than likely we're more aggressive on offense as well. Though with Cam as our OC, you never know lol

[TXRaven]

Terrible rule, but it was the correct call according to the rule. And I will take it.

[funky141]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1321840849' post='879515']
I cant lie.. That was a TD 100% .... He had control of the ball before he reached the endzone so to me its similar to a guy stretching out to the pyline to get the TD .. The dont have to control the ball when they pass the pyline
[/quote]
I agree, two feet down after having control of the ball. This rule is dumb. The TE didn't leap/jump, then catch and come down with the ball.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1321877991' post='879987']

I agree, two feet down after having control of the ball. This rule is dumb. The TE didn't leap/jump, then catch and come down with the ball.
[/quote]
Funny....the Falcon and Colt fellas think it was a TD....hmmmm

Its a dumb rule, but called correctly by definition.

[Wallace17_OutRunMe]

It was very close and probably should have been ruled a TD but in the end that is still not the main reason the Bengals lost the game. They turned the ball over 3 times and had 2 bad interceptions thrown late in the 3rd quarter and early in the 4th quarter. Plus,they had a chance to tie the game there in the final minute there having 1st and goal at the 5 yard line after the Simpson catch and still couldnt punch it in. Ill say this about the Bengals the last 2 weeks while seeing them play both the Steelers and the Ravens they are a legit playoff caliber team and they are capable of going toe to toe with anybody in the AFC. Both the Steelers and the Ravens are going to have their hands full once again when they meet them the 2nd time around...

[Natty Boh]

Not many like that rule but the officials got it absolutely correct. I myself don't like that rule but as long as it is there...the refs gotta go with it. I was mildly proud of myself after that play because as soon as they replayed it, I called that it would be overturned based on my knowledge of that rule.

*pats self on back*

[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/sherlock.gif[/img]

[ravensfan2430]

Terrible rule. In my book its a TD. NFL not TD.....

[Tank 92]

Who cares. We've been burned numerous times by weird rulings, bad calls, etc., etc., etc.. Especially against cincy the past few years.

It's about time one went our way.

[jdynamite]

Well it took like 6 different replay angles before that one angle shows the ball hit the ground..... I felt that the Gresham play was more of a TD catch than the S.Holmes TD in 2008 AFC title Game ( Holmes never got the ball across the plain ) while ( Gresham actually took a step into the end-zone) , but it's his fault for using the ball to break his fall he should have turned his body to roll over rather than brace his fall with the ball in hand......

With that all said, I can't believe we got a call like that in our Favor lol, I would be so mad if it happen to us, but then again Ray Rice TD was wiped out on a defender tackling T.Smith (but Smith getting called for the hold ) so these things happen..... Or like in playoff game when Webb Punt Return was called back for no reason......

[Tank 92]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1321886638' post='880083']
Well it took like 6 different replay angles before that one angle shows the ball hit the ground..... I felt that the Gresham play was more of a TD catch than the S.Holmes TD in 2008 AFC title Game ( Holmes never got the ball across the plain ) while ( Gresham actually took a step into the end-zone) , but it's his fault for using the ball to break his fall he should have turned his body to roll over rather than brace his fall with the ball in hand......

With that all said, I can't believe we got a call like that in our Favor lol, I would be so mad if it happen to us, but then again Ray Rice TD was wiped out on a defender tackling T.Smith (but Smith getting called for the hold ) so these things happen..... Or like in playoff game when Webb Punt Return was called back for no reason......
[/quote]


Yep. I think we are owed a lot more before we get "evened up".

I think the ruling was that he lost control, not that the ball contacted the ground. It can hit the ground as long as control is maintained.

You're right. There was only one view that showed the ball loose and Gresham sliding the ball back in to his body. A close call. But by rule, the correct one.

[atljbo]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1321880387' post='880001']
Funny....the Falcon and Colt fellas think it was a TD....hmmmm

Its a dumb rule, but called correctly by definition.
[/quote]

I have no dog in this fight... Heck i like the Ravens more then i like the Bengals... I was just saying what i think ... It doesnt matter tho.. The Refs determined it wasnt a catch... I just disagree... The Ravens won regardless

[tctony]

Why is it dumb rule? The player must keep possession through the catch anywhere else on the field, why not in the end zone?

[funky141]

Good point I just heard. For example if a runner (QB, RB or anybody) holds the ball across the white goal line, TD, no exceptions.

So, Gresham gets control of the ball, two feet down (we all can agree on that) holds the ball across the goal line

Why is that not a TD too?

I'm still willing to bet the NFL will come out later this week and say that should have beena TD.

[tctony]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1321898595' post='880363']
Good point I just heard. For example if a runner (QB, RB or anybody) holds the ball across the white goal line, TD, no exceptions.

So, Gresham gets control of the ball, two feet down (we all can agree on that) holds the ball across the goal line

Why is that not a TD too?

I'm still willing to bet the NFL will come out later this week and say that should have beena TD.
[/quote]

He did not gain possession until he was already in the end zone.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1321898595' post='880363']
Good point I just heard. For example if a runner (QB, RB or anybody) holds the ball across the white goal line, TD, no exceptions.

So, Gresham gets control of the ball, two feet down (we all can agree on that) holds the ball across the goal line

Why is that not a TD too?

I'm still willing to bet the NFL will come out later this week and say that should have beena TD.
[/quote]
As Gresham finally had his hands on the football, only his left foot touched the ground while he was already being tackled by Cary Williams. Thereby, he was going to the ground while making the reception, and by rule, a player is to maintain possession all the way to the ground when going down in the process of the catch. Which he did not. Earl Bennett had a similar TD overturned yesterday, as he was going down with the ball in the end zone, having clear possession and touching his feet inbounds until he lost control after his body hit the ground. It's not the best rule, and should definitely be reviewed at the end of the season, but the calls were correct.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Ravens1990' timestamp='1321898195' post='880354']
Why is it dumb rule? The player must keep possession through the catch anywhere else on the field, why not in the end zone?
[/quote]
i suppose its because if your a runner all you have to do is stick the ball out across the white line for a td, yet gresham had control and one foot down in EZ but when he fell lost control... he had more control than many runners do.. some stick the ball out, it crosses the line the a defender knocks it out while the runner is in mid air and its still a TD... a receiver has to do far more for a TD than a runner

[Tank 92]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1321901049' post='880416']
i suppose its because if your a runner all you have to do is stick the ball out across the white line for a td, yet gresham had control and one foot down in EZ but when he fell lost control... he had more control than many runners do.. some stick the ball out, it crosses the line the a defender knocks it out while the runner is in mid air and its still a TD... a receiver has to do far more for a TD than a runner
[/quote]


It just boils down to a receiver must maintain possession throughout the catch, whether it be for a TD or out in the middle of the field. The fact that he crossed the plane of the goal line is irrelevant. It would not have been a catch wherever it occurred.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1321901521' post='880428']


It just boils down to a receiver must maintain possession throughout the catch, whether it be for a TD or out in the middle of the field. The fact that he crossed the plane of the goal line is irrelevant. It would not have been a catch wherever it occurred.
[/quote]
its not irrelevant see 49ers first TD, he caught it outside the EZ and was getting tackled, stuck out his arm, ball crossed the line, TD, but dropped the ball when he was swung round, but it already crossed the plane, gresham had more control of the ball than the 49ers WR from the highlight i seen

[Tank 92]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1321903434' post='880465']
its not irrelevant see 49ers first TD, [i][b]he caught it outside the EZ and was getting tackled, stuck out his arm, ball crossed the line[/b][/i], TD, but dropped the ball when he was swung round, but it already crossed the plane, gresham had more control of the ball than the 49ers WR from the highlight i seen
[/quote]

Exactly. He had already completed the catch prior to extending the ball. Gresham was still in the process of completing the catch when the ball hit the ground and was dislodged. The pass would have been ruled incomplete no matter where it occurred.

[funky141]

From Peter King SI.com
[b]. I hate the inconsistency of touchdowns called in the end zone. Just hate it.[/b] Go back and watch the Jermaine Gresham catch ruled not a touchdown for the Bengals late in the loss at Baltimore. Gresham gets control of the ball as he takes two steps and passes the goal line. When he falls to the ground, the ball is dislodged. But he has already pierced the goal line. The touchdown should have counted. It was ruled that Gresham didn't complete the act of catching the ball. But he did complete the act of piercing the goal line with the ball in control. Watch the play. Tell me what you think. Tell me I'm nuts -- please. I cannot fathom the play not being a touchdown. Gresham got control, took steps, went through the plane of the goal line, then lost it on the ground. No touchdown. Crazy.

good read

[tctony]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1321903941' post='880481']
From Peter King SI.com
[b]. I hate the inconsistency of touchdowns called in the end zone. Just hate it.[/b] Go back and watch the Jermaine Gresham catch ruled not a touchdown for the Bengals late in the loss at Baltimore. Gresham gets control of the ball as he takes two steps and passes the goal line. When he falls to the ground, the ball is dislodged. But he has already pierced the goal line. The touchdown should have counted. It was ruled that Gresham didn't complete the act of catching the ball. But he did complete the act of piercing the goal line with the ball in control. Watch the play. Tell me what you think. Tell me I'm nuts -- please. I cannot fathom the play not being a touchdown. Gresham got control, took steps, went through the plane of the goal line, then lost it on the ground. No touchdown. Crazy.

good read
[/quote]

Thats just the thing. He did not have possession of the ball until he was already in the end zone. He did not have possession and two feet before he crossed the end zone. He had to complete the catch, which he didn't.

[berad]

It wasn't a catch, he didn't complete the catch - it came dislodged as he hit the ground. It's really not that difficult. If you want to get upset at officiating, look no further than some phantom DPI calls that went against Carr and Webb.

[jdynamite]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1321887113' post='880092']


Yep. I think we are owed a lot more before we get "evened up".

I think the ruling was that he lost control, not that the ball contacted the ground. It can hit the ground as long as control is maintained.

You're right. There was only one view that showed the ball loose and Gresham sliding the ball back in to his body. A close call. But by rule, the correct one.
[/quote]

Lol yeah the ball can touch ground as long as person maintains possession through the catch, But since he used the ball to brace his fall, he lost control over it when he landed full force ball first on ground....

I thought for sure it was a TD, I was on Facebook posting " the offense needs to finish this game off with 1st downs " then I turned it on my Directv Game Mix looked at all 7 games and noticed the Refs overturned it ....

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1321903904' post='880480']

Exactly. He had already completed the catch prior to extending the ball. Gresham was still in the process of completing the catch when the ball hit the ground and was dislodged. The pass would have been ruled incomplete no matter where it occurred.
[/quote]
he did have possession before he hit the ground, but when he hit the ground it knocked it lose if that happened just on the one yard line and his outstrectched arm which he used to cushion his fall crossed the goaline its a TD, but becuase it happened in the EZ, its not? do you see my point? if it happens outside EZ, but the ball crosses the plane then when he falls it gets knocked loose, its already a TD cause the ball crossed the plane, doesnt matter if he controls possession all the way through the catch, its one rule for inside the EZ and another for the ball crossing the plane... stupid rule, but correct call becuase of the rule, well actually maybe its a good a rule, and the "crossing the plane" rule is the stupid one?

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1321904399' post='880497']
It wasn't a catch, he didn't complete the catch - it came dislodged as he hit the ground. It's really not that difficult. If you want to get upset at officiating, look no further than some phantom DPI calls that went against Carr and Webb.
[/quote]
im not argueing that btw, im argueing the rule, see post above, if he catches it on ethe one, stretches the ball out crosses the plane and then still drops it when he falls, its still a TD cause the ball crossed the plane, thats why the 49ers TD, were the WR didnt complete the catch technically cause he dropped it when he hit the ground on the one, but he outstrectched and the ball crossed the line, therefore its a TD before he drops it, but it both cases they drop it, gresham gets penalised for catching the ball in the EZ, whereas the 49ers caught it at the one and "crossed the plane".. right call, one rule needs changed