Wow Harbs Was Really Testy In Today's Conference!

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1321363743' post='872179']


Do you like ANY moves the Ravens make? Seriously, for someone who questions everything and plays armchair GM with only negativity ...maybe you should take Harbs advice. It's like this in every city where fans think they're promised a Super Bowl.... Hell, Bruce Arians/ Tomlin in Pittsburgh gets clubbed weekley too.... Even with 2 Super Bowls. Your act is tired, and your opinions are so overblown it's laughable most of the time. You're really a lost soul if you think Harbs doesn't crack skulls in-house. He's a hardnosed coach, he probably has higher standards then most people even know. When you're winning everyone is happy...When you lose, where your Kevlar.
[/quote]


Actually, I praised the team for not giving into many people on this board's demands and drafting Heyward-Bey. I praised them for then drafting Torrey Smith when everyone said he would be a bust. The Vontae Leach signing, I thought was huge. It not only weakened another AFC playoff contender, but it made the Ravens stronger.

But hey, I'm sure you knew that. I highly doubt you only search these forums for any criticism I may have. After all, it's not like you show any sense of frustration with personal attacks in your threads. After all, that would be against the mighty code of conduct... right mods?

[jdynamite]

Harbaugh has a 67 win percent as our Head Coach 38W - 19L. (even with some letdowns, bad losses. Whatever people want to call it ).

His first season was not a given to win, with a team set to start a New QB ( which was going to be T.Smith ), controversy in house because Rex Ryan didn't get HC job.... No more J.Ogden protecting QBs also...
Yr 1 the Team - overachieved ( because by almost going to the SuperBowl ).
Yr 2 the Team proves it wasn't a fluke that they made playoffs ( which led to higher expectations )
Yr 3 ( Ravens were one of Top Teams but collapsed in playoffs. )

Harbaugh has never looked bad as a head coach : Wade Philips, Norv Turner where the team just constantly underachieves and doesn't seem to hear the coach speaking.

He's getting the Tony Dungy ( Tampa Bay ) treatment from many of the Fans..
Schottenheimer ( Charger Treatment )

[berad]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1321363874' post='872181']
Sometimes those type of stats are deceiving, you have to take into account how often he runs kickoffs 6 yds deep out of the endzone reaching the 20yd line ( that's a 26 yd return rather the a touchback which is equivalent ). His burst seem to back in the Steelers game, sad that Seahawks game occurred the way it did.....
If Reed were returning at level he did last year, even with the Fumbles I think all would be forgiven already..

But let's also remember that Parmele was statistically ranked among TOP 10 kick - returners and he rarely seemed to make impact plays or returns past the 35 yd line.
[/quote]

It's not that deceptive. His average is 28.6 and he's had two over 40 yards. He only had two returns over 40 in all of 2010 so you could make the case that he's doing even better, statistically and aside from the fumbles.

Paramele got to his 31.4 yard average on only 9 returns - small sample size. And of those 9, 2 were 40+.

[H8R]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1321364908' post='872196']
Actually, I praised the team for not giving into many people on this board's demands and drafting Heyward-Bey. I praised them for then drafting Torrey Smith when everyone said he would be a bust. The Vontae Leach signing, I thought was huge. It not only weakened another AFC playoff contender, but it made the Ravens stronger.

But hey, I'm sure you knew that. I highly doubt you only search these forums for any criticism I may have. After all, it's not like you show any sense of frustration with personal attacks in your threads. After all, that would be against the mighty code of conduct... right mods?
[/quote]


I see why most people don't take the time to respond to you... They, more then likely have you blocked.... So, a handful of praise for a truckload of complaining? Right, that's logical...Expecially to a team thats been pretty decent since Harbs has been here. I can see your "logic" in key instances. Example, the Ravens "not giving in" to people pn this board about DHB... Once again, laughable... We have ZERO bearing on the players the Ravens Draft. You're out of touch if you think we have a say, point blank.

Furthermore, I'm not attacking you but merely addressing that you have a gloomy outlook on MOST things Ravens. Very few instances do you ever shy away from the mob mentality. Very few.

[Rinbee]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1321312546' post='871352']
Harbs isn't going anywhere. I know that alot of people on here don't like his style, but really how can you disagree with 3 consecutive playoff seasons and 4 playoff wins? There are a very, very small handful of coaches who have done better during the same timespan and all of them had more experience and elite quaterbacks.

Cameron and his underwhelming offense is another story.

I wonder about Rosberg. I would think that with all of the ST gaffes, there would come a point when he would tell his returners to take a knee in the endzone and guarantee 20 yards for the offense. Perhaps he did just that and players decided not to listen or something...
[/quote]


Darklight, I am not picking on you but I have read only one page of this topic and I hear about all of the wins that Harbs and Flacco have. I am not saying Harbs should go. I agree with another poster that he is more a manager than a coach and I don't like the way he lets personal feelings get in the way of his decisions. As for wins, it's not just about quantity, it's also about quality. Losing games we should win does not reflect quality coaching/playing. Piling up wins with a talented team but failing to even get to the AFC championship does not look good. Again, I am not saying anyone should leave, except Reed, but you have to judge players and coaches on more than just the number of wins and how often a team makes the playoffs, especially when we keep doing it as a wildcard.

[jdynamite]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1321365308' post='872207']

It's not that deceptive. His average is 28.6 and he's had two over 40 yards. He only had two returns over 40 in all of 2010 so you could make the case that he's doing even better, statistically and aside from the fumbles.

Paramele got to his 31.4 yard average on only 9 returns - small sample size. And of those 9, 2 were 40+.
[/quote]

Okay when I say deceptive it is associated with the Fact that this year many Kick Returners (including Reed) are taking the ball out of the endzone on kickoffs more than ever.... All 3 returns on Sunday Reed this from at least 5 yds deep each time and he did it at least 2 times vs Pittsburgh.... He has 16 returns this year for 28.6 yds which looks good, but I'm saying on good percent of those get returned to the 20-25 yd line and the 4-6 yds in the endzone combines with that to give him returns near 30 yds....

Coaches across the league seem to have okay these returns more and more because the kicking teams never know if team will kneel or return which with a slight hesitation from coverage team could open a big gap.....

I'm not being negative here, I just believe when returners take it out of the endzone get it past 20 yd line so its justifiable return.... lol

[berad]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1321372495' post='872297']

Okay when I say deceptive it is associated with the Fact that this year many Kick Returners (including Reed) are taking the ball out of the endzone on kickoffs more than ever.... All 3 returns on Sunday Reed this from at least 5 yds deep each time and he did it at least 2 times vs Pittsburgh.... He has 16 returns this year for 28.6 yds which looks good, but [b]I'm saying on good percent of those get returned to the 20-25 yd line [/b]and the 4-6 yds in the endzone combines with that to give him returns near 30 yds....

Coaches across the league seem to have okay these returns more and more because the kicking teams never know if team will kneel or return which with a slight hesitation from coverage team could open a big gap.....

I'm not being negative here, [b]I just believe when returners take it out of the endzone get it past 20 yd line so its justifiable return[/b].... lol
[/quote]

These two statements are contradictory. You're making my argument. Point is, David Reed (until the past two weeks) was/is a pretty good kick returner and his production was not by mistake.

[jdynamite]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1321373587' post='872316']

These two statements are contradictory. You're making my argument. Point is, David Reed (until the past two weeks) was/is a pretty good kick returner and his production was not by mistake.
[/quote]

The last statement was a generalization of the entire league of returners..... I said 20-25 because in the Seahawk game all three returns made it to 20 which is equivalent of a TouchBack... which means he gets credit for 25 yd return that essentially meant nothing...... if he happens to take the ball to the 23 yd line now he has a 28 yd return which looks great.....

Last year many kickers kick offs went anywhere from 5yd line to 3 yds deep in the endzone.. If kickoff is caught on the 1 and he returns it 28 yds where are we the 29... etc..... Those 5+ yds do add up.....

I thought last week vs Steelers was one of his best games returning he got near the 30 several times.....
And I like the kid, I was at the game in Houston (Last Season) when he took a return to the house.... My only point is that this year kickoff return numbers are slightly elevated across the NFL because so many players are running it from 5+ yds deep in the Endzone, 2 yrs ago thats about 95% touchback with exception of few returners Hester, Cribbs, L.Washington....

I'm not piling it on Reed or anything

[berad]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1321375216' post='872358']

The last statement was a generalization of the entire league of returners..... I said 20-25 because in the Seahawk game all three returns made it to 20 which is equivalent of a TouchBack... which means he gets credit for 25 yd return that essentially meant nothing...... if he happens to take the ball to the 23 yd line now he has a 28 yd return which looks great.....

Last year many kickers kick offs went anywhere from 5yd line to 3 yds deep in the endzone.. If kickoff is caught on the 1 and he returns it 28 yds where are we the 29... etc..... Those 5+ yds do add up.....

I thought last week vs Steelers was one of his best games returning he got near the 30 several times.....
And I like the kid, I was at the game in Houston when he took a return to the house.... My only point is that this year kickoff return numbers are slightly elevated across the NFL because so many players are running it from 5+ yds deep in the Endzone, 2 yrs ago thats about 95% touchback with exception of few returners Hester, Cribbs, L.Washington....

I'm not piling it on Reed or anything
[/quote]

I understand how the yardage works but he's still, statistically, a top 10 KR in the NFL. Even after two awful games.

I expect us to have a new KR by Sunday, though.

[Magnusmd]

is it me? or did we get WAY off topic?

[ravensfan2430]

Poor coaching this season by Harbs and Cam. Between not giving the ball to Rice and not benching Reed after the personal foul, Im dissappointed.

[Carson16Lax]

And to think I thought Baltimore had highly intelligent fans. Jesus mother of Christ, people are actually talking about him possibly losing his job? I think it's borderline crazy to think Cam is going to go, but now people are asking for Harbs out? Idiots, complete idiots. I will just think and hope the idiots saying that haven't played sports, let alone football before.

To stay on topic, I haven't seen anything on Harbs in conference yet, I gotta check it out, but if he's testy, good.. he needs to be. He needs to get this team fired up for more than just the Steelers and whatnot. I don't think a lack of intensity is the issue against these bad teams, I actually think it's preparation. And that IS his job, but to get his team fired up will surely help the focus and preparation aspect of practice from here on out.

[bpytnjr58]

I see why coaches get "Testy" the media can ask some very stupid questions. Did Harbaugh make excuses for the loss? Probably so.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1321313172' post='871385']

[b]I saw somewhere that he was second in the league in kick return average before yesterday.[/b] Even now, he's top 10 [i](out of dudes who have returned it more than once) [/i]in the NFL. You don't get that yardage by being a dud.
[/quote]
I knew this was coming next. My bad his return yards makes him the best in the league on kickoff returns. I would like a real answer to one question. Because all i get is stats on here. Do you really see David Reed returning kicks, then tell yourself, on the next kick he might break. I never look at him and am like this one is going to the house. Because his vision is horrible, and now all of a sudden so is his hands.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Mick0311' timestamp='1321313283' post='871392']


What has Harbaugh's W/L record since taking over?
[/quote]
Good point! I wonder how many special teams coaches in the league, can take over a team, hire coordinators to run it, and have a better win lost record........ Great coach.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1321440253' post='873183']
Good point! I wonder how many special teams coaches in the league, can take over a team, hire coordinators to run it, and have a better win lost record........ Great coach.
[/quote]


Well, you didn't want to talk about the playoff appearances, so I brought up the W/L record. A HUGE part of being a leader of an organization is hiring and managing the people in it. You tell me, what criteria would you like to use? lol. You're funny.

[Corvus]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1321313729' post='871407']


if i was him i wouldnt be in a good mood either, he's not throwing anyone under the bus, what is he supposed to say? Cam called a bad game and we should work on the run game when we are down by 2 TDs?

we had to throw it....David Reed is near the top again this year but the past two weeks he's been horrible securing the ball
[/quote]

In all of my years of watching football from high school to college to CFL to NFL, I have never once saw a team facing a 12 point deficit with 2 FULL quarters left to play that "had to throw the football." And what happened when we came out and forced the pass at the beginning of the 3rd?

I love this team and I'll always support the team itself and I know you will always do the same, but you sound like you've been taking coach speak classes and saying the same drivel that none of us are really buying when it comes out of Harbs' mouth.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Rinbee' timestamp='1321365659' post='872216']


Darklight, I am not picking on you but I have read only one page of this topic and I hear about all of the wins that Harbs and Flacco have. I am not saying Harbs should go. I agree with another poster that[b] he is more a manager than a coach[/b] and I don't like the way he lets personal feelings get in the way of his decisions. As for wins, it's not just about quantity, it's also about quality. Losing games we should win does not reflect quality coaching/playing. Piling up wins with a talented team but failing to even get to the AFC championship does not look good. Again, I am not saying anyone should leave, except Reed, but you have to judge players and coaches on more than just the number of wins and how often a team makes the playoffs, especially when we keep doing it as a wildcard.
[/quote]

What does this even mean? He's more of a manger than a coach?! Isn't 'Manager' what they call head coaches of baseball teams? Or is this one of those things that people do when they're talking about QBs and how they're more 'game managers' than a 'real' player even though that's ridiculous? Are you trying to say Harbs is just coasting and hasn't really done anything but watch his team win without him putting in a single amount of input in three years, despite him having a hand in everything going on with the team? I'm just trying to make sure we're on the same page here.

[Rinbee]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1321580593' post='874978']

[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img] What does this even mean? He's more of a manger than a coach?! Isn't 'Manager' what they call head coaches of baseball teams? Or is this one of those things that people do when they're talking about QBs and how they're more 'game managers' than a 'real' player even though that's ridiculous? Are you trying to say Harbs is just coasting and hasn't really done anything but watch his team win without him putting in a single amount of input in three years, despite him having a hand in everything going on with the team? I'm just trying to make sure we're on the same page here.
[/quote]

First, manager/coach are just a titles and not necessarily descriptive of how a particular manager/coach runs a game. I do not get the sense that Harbs or Cam for that matter are really able to teach players or learn from past mistakes. I also think they are weak on strategy and game planning, especially during the game, and often very one dimensional. All of this is why, IMO, the Ravens are very poor in general at making adjustments during the game or catching the other team off guard. I think the poor run/pass mix in many games is in indication that they cannot develop a complex game plan or that they look at the game one dimensionally. Looking at the Seahawks game, when down by just 12 points they seemed to go into panic mode and just throwing the ball. I don't buy Harbs and Flacco's commnens that "the game situation dictated the need to pass" on virtually every down. Don't they understand that unless you have a superstar QB and receivers you have to mix in some runs to keep the D honest? Not to mention that Rice is a bigger threat than Flacco to break open a play.

In a nutshell, managing is simply putting players on the field and calling in plays. Coaching is the ability to contnuously process what is happening in the game, learn from mistakes, get the most from your players, leverage their strenghts, make situattional decisions. When Reed had fumbled in the previous game and once already in the Hawks game, why was he allowed to run the ball out of the endzone again? A good coach would have recognized there is a problem and altered the plan.

by the way, I am not the first person to say Harbs is more a manager than a coach. nothing really new here.

[D-Rey]

Harbs has been a great coach. Cam needs to go.