Few Touches To Ray Rice Preventing Us From Winning?

[Suggs Package]

I think what's going thru Cam's mind is that against many of these 4-3 teams is that we have to pass to set up the run. 4-3 backers are more agile and are able to stay with Rice on passes and the extra down lineman hurts against the run. Ideally, we would start forcing them to use their nickel and dime packages because their pass rush would be ineffective, and at that point, we'll run the ball down their throats. During one drive, that started to work too.

The problem were our wideouts and they got too many targets from Joe. I knew Boldin would struggle because his game is being physical and body positioning, not separation, but its hard to do that against corners that are bigger than you. We really needed Torrey Smith to step up, but he's a screen and fly receiver at this point, which is relatively easy to defend against.

I agree with most of you that Rice definitely got way too few carries and Cam's gameplan backfired, but at least try to recognize the strategy. I don't know if any of you recognize the considerable handicap we currently have at WR and yet we've been able to win games. I am certain that once Evans is able to play, our offense will be a lot better.

[tctony]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1321295236' post='870749']I agree with most of you that Rice definitely got way too few carries and Cam's gameplan backfired, but at least try to recognize the strategy. I don't know if any of you recognize the considerable handicap we currently have at WR and yet we've been able to win games. I am certain that once Evans is able to play, our offense will be a lot better.[/quote]

I definitely recognize it. The "5 Things" article on Ravens Insider pointed out that the strategy could've worked, there was just a huge lack of execution. Joe misfired a lot, and there were several costly drops throughout the game.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' timestamp='1321234800' post='868915']
Rice is on my fantasy so I've paid a lot more attention to him. With that said it seems like the less touches he gets, our chances of winning drop dramatically. In the second half he seemed to be making good progress then he gets pulled out. I'm not entirely sure as of why.

We invested a lot into the running game and we tend to be using it less and less. We were in no means in panic mode in the game until the 4th quarter. We still had plenty of time to get the running game in gear, especially with defensive personnel mismatches.

I mean what's going on with out offense? I am questioning it more than anything right now.

I know one man doesn't make a team, but he's got serious talent.
[/quote]
I gotta disagree, we need to throw the ball atleast as much as we have been, the problem is our WRers are dropping sure catches or Flacco throw no where near that receiver.

I will say this, when Rice does get the ball, we need to screen or toss to the sides, Rice is more dangerous and can make people miss, you cant do that running up the middle all the time. Does he get through, yes he does but not that much.

[Carson16Lax]

Okay, so before you tear me apart for thinking such a thing, understand my stance.

I don't think Skip Bayless in anyway has affected, or will ever affect a game plan or the score of any professional sporting event. He's an attention seeking, shock-value artist, and that's all he'll ever be. But my question is, does anyone disagree, and think that Skip maybe made Cameron push Joe to put up elite numbers? I think it's possible, but highly unlikely for that to have happened. But Cameron has done some questionable things in the past, so it's understandable for some to believe that is the case.

Again, I DON'T think this is the case whatsoever, but out of curiosity, I was wondering if it's crossed the minds of others.

What do all of you think? Has Skip Bayless' words made Cameron think he needed to <[i]have Joe[/i]> toss 52 passes up in one game?

[TDubbs]

Its all about situations, I feel we were forced to pass yesterday. We fought from behind all game and we had to put up points. Had we gotten the ball only down 7-0 maybe we would have been able to run the ball 30 plus times. Unfortunately we were not afforded that luxury. Another point may be that Flacco looked so good throwing out of the shotgun against the Cardinals and Steelers, why not give him another chance to do so when your down 10-0.

[CalvinSmoke]

I don't think it's because of Skip himself, but i do think that Cam wanted Joe to look elite. Or he thinks joe is more elite than he really is.

[chesapeakeaviator]

Personally, I just think Cam gets too cute for his own good. "You know what they'll never expect? Fifty-two passes!"

He should be a Conference USA O-Coordinator. He could probably tear it up down at Southern Miss.

[latenighthero]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1321240400' post='869515']
What is it going to take for the lovefest on Ray Rice to end? I'd take Mendehall, Turner, Benson, and even Lynch before him if I was making a team. We should have about 15-20 runs per game, no matter who has the ball, so I disagree with the extreme imbalance on offense, but it's not like Rice is shredding people this season. Rice makes his money by being a decent runner with excellent hands (for a RB), by serving as Flacco's check down. Against a decent run defense Rice does not produce, probably because he's too small. Saying he's an elite talent is quite the stretch.

Our only 'elite' players though are Suggs, Ngata, and maybe Ed Reed, but they were no where to be seen today.
[/quote]
Not even close dude. Not sure what games you are watching.

[Raven146]

Until the troll is out of the system, nothing is going to change.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1321306577' post='871174']
Not even close dude. Not sure what games you are watching.
[/quote]

Deny it all you want, but the numbers stack up in my favor. Rice had a 5.3 YPC during his first year as the feature back and was phenomenal. After that, he's encountered a precipitous decline, managing only a 4.0 YPC last year and matching that same PATHETIC number this year. Do you want to know some backs that have done a better job than Rice this season? Willis McGahee, DeMaco Murray, Ben Tate, Arian Foster (who's been injured most of the year), Frank Gore, Maurice Jones Drew, LeSean McCoy (who has no offensive line), and Fred freaking Jackson, a nobody from Coe College. And that's just the guys who are beating Rice in both total yards and YPC. Ryan Matthews, Michael Bush, Reggie Bush, James Starks, LeGarrette Blount, DeAngelo Williams, Jahvid Best, Jonathan Stewart, Pierre Thomas, and Darren Sproles are all beating him in YPC and aren't that far behind on yards. I left out Adriain Peterson, who is the one truly elite RB in this league, but he's obviously doing better than Rice in every worthwhile category.

This lovefest can claim Rice is an elite back all they want, but the numbers don't lie on this. Running back is a simple position, you can either run or you can't, and ever since that first season Rice can't run. 4.0 YPC is not elite, it's not even serviceable. Giving this guy a large contract, as many of you will clamor for, will be the biggest mistake in franchise history and will set this team back at least 5 years.

[ball so hard 2011]

hey!! im a die hard ravens fan....i live deep in the city where the ravens is most hated. indianapolis,in that is. Cam got fired from Indiana university for his offense schemes that didn't work because his diversity in playing calling was "wacky" and to come to the NFL with the same play calling..... is not going to work balance play calling will always win games especially when you got a all-pro running back in Ray Rice.....if Ray get 14 more touches we would have beat the seahawks. Just because a team runs a 4-3 defense doesn't mean go-away from the run it means diverse play calling. If film and scouting report didn't help you manage a game plan ur not doing ur job for the team nor for urself....... What team didn't run the ball on the seahawks and lost. the team that don't have diverse play calling normally lose to teams that are under 500. Baltimore got alot of weapons to compete and win a super-bowl this year and next year!! do we have a coaching staff thats ready to coach a super-bowl contender???? offense that is.

[scrock]

We didnt lose this game because Ray Rice didnt get his touches, we lost because David Reed gave the ball up twice, because drives stalled because of dropped balls, and because Billy missed 2 field goals

[PeRK82]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' timestamp='1321234800' post='868915']
Rice is on my fantasy so I've paid a lot more attention to him. With that said it seems like the less touches he gets, our chances of winning drop dramatically. In the second half he seemed to be making good progress then he gets pulled out. I'm not entirely sure as of why.

We invested a lot into the running game and we tend to be using it less and less. We were in no means in panic mode in the game until the 4th quarter. We still had plenty of time to get the running game in gear, especially with defensive personnel mismatches.

I mean what's going on with out offense? I am questioning it more than anything right now.

I know one man doesn't make a team, but he's got serious talent.
[/quote]

Its not like he isnt getting the ball, he is getting Passed to too, ya know

[latenighthero]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1321308068' post='871218']

Deny it all you want, but the numbers stack up in my favor. Rice had a 5.3 YPC during his first year as the feature back and was phenomenal. After that, he's encountered a precipitous decline, managing only a 4.0 YPC last year and matching that same PATHETIC number this year. Do you want to know some backs that have done a better job than Rice this season? Willis McGahee, DeMaco Murray, Ben Tate, Arian Foster (who's been injured most of the year), Frank Gore, Maurice Jones Drew, LeSean McCoy (who has no offensive line), and Fred freaking Jackson, a nobody from Coe College. And that's just the guys who are beating Rice in both total yards and YPC. Ryan Matthews, Michael Bush, Reggie Bush, James Starks, LeGarrette Blount, DeAngelo Williams, Jahvid Best, Jonathan Stewart, Pierre Thomas, and Darren Sproles are all beating him in YPC and aren't that far behind on yards. I left out Adriain Peterson, who is the one truly elite RB in this league, but he's obviously doing better than Rice in every worthwhile category.

This lovefest can claim Rice is an elite back all they want, but the numbers don't lie on this. Running back is a simple position, you can either run or you can't, and ever since that first season Rice can't run. 4.0 YPC is not elite, it's not even serviceable. Giving this guy a large contract, as many of you will clamor for, will be the biggest mistake in franchise history and will set this team back at least 5 years.
[/quote]
Clearly you aren't watching games at all. I wasn't aware that Total yards and YPC are the only factors that determine the ability of a Running Back in the NFL. Ray Rice is the centerpiece of this offense (other than offensive line) and if you watched Ravens games closely you can see how important he is to the sucess of this team. In a game like football you CAN'T just look at stats as the be all and end all. In a sport like baseball it is much more accurate determinant of player ability, but football you really need to watch the games.

[latenighthero]

I just finished posted that when I came across a quote that Aaron Wilson got from Ray Lewis regarding Ray Rice. He said "If that talent (Rice) isn't touching the ball 25-30 times, then you have to question, 'What are we doing balance wise?' I just think our offensive guys need to do a better job of getting the ball in his (Rice's) hands."

After both the Jags game and the Seahawks game Terrell Suggs has also come up just a fraction short of absolutely ripping Cam Cameron to the media about not giving the rock to Rice much more in those 2 games. Ray and Sizzle see Rice is practice every day; they know how more than anyone on the planet how much ability this guy has.

You're entitled to your own opinion but do you honestly believe that you know more than Suggs and Ray Lewis?

[CapoRocky]

I agree that it was the 2 fumbles and missed FGs that cost the game. We could have played more aggressively on defense too. I don't remember our pass rush looking so lame in the games we won. It was a big disappointment all over. Now, let's hope that we can move on and start a winning streak.

[1bodaciousraven]

Call me crazy, but honestly I Like that were trying to take some of the load off Ray. Before it seemed like if ray was shut down, so was the offense.

[BenDufusberger]

If you look at Rice's production in games where we didn't have a patched-up offensive line , i.e. the only three games that Grubbs played , you get over five yds/carry against Pitt in game 1 and Seattle this week , and what would have been over five in the second game vs. Pitt , if the TD run is not taken back on a bad penalty call. Importantly , all three games were against better than average rush defenses.

In other words , when our OL is intact it looks like Rice's running game[u] is improved [/u]over last year , whether from the addition of Leach or for other reasons. Results from only three games may be too few to know for sure , but I'd be looking to give Rice the ball and see if they hold up.

[AmericanSatire]

[size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]The chart below displays the Number Of Rush Attempts & Yards Per Carry Average (per 2011 Game) ... Alongside Number of Pass Attempts (not Completions) & Yards Per Attempt (not Completion).[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]I understand that in Week 2, Week 7 and Week 10 those are all losses, and perhaps there is a direct correlation to that. However, even as much as the Ravens are throwing the ball around, they are being more productive as the Yards / Carry is consistently lower than the Yards / Passing Attempt.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]Another tidbit to look at is the fact that our first several games were complete blowouts, as where the last few games have all been fourth-quarter comebacks. This provides some relief that perhaps it's not just the fact that we're "throwing the ball too much" is the cause for our losses, as we were throwing the ball just as much earlier in the season.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]My advice, hand the ball off to the running backs about 25-times AT LEAST, and keep the passing attempts below 50.[/font][/size]

[right][i][size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]P.S. I am not an advocate of the passing game consuming such a great deal of our offensive attack. Just food for thought.[/font][/size][/i][/right]



[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42171653/Untitled2.jpg[/img]

[The Raven]

[quote name='1bodaciousraven' timestamp='1321480229' post='873761']
Call me crazy, but honestly I Like that were trying to take some of the load off Ray. Before it seemed like if ray was shut down, so was the offense.
[/quote]

The irony is, we shut Ray down ourselves, and by doing so shutting our offense down as well...... Whats to like about that?

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

WE as fans have been insanely critical of our offense. AS fans though dont expect much to get done when you complain though, that is the nature of a fan. WE used to have a drill sergeant who used to say the only time you worry about a soldier is when he stops complaining, because he has finally met his end.

That being said When Ray Lewis says you have to question what you are doing for balance, then you should probably wake up and take notice. He is the most influential figure in Baltimore sports history (although I had to think about him v.s. Johnny U.) So is it getting to be too much to be ignored.

Do you think anything gets done, and do you think Ray's comments were a detrimental, either way he gets a pass because of who he is, but just looking for what people think as to how it will affect this team?

[url="http://twitter.com/#!/RavensInsider"]http://twitter.com/#...!/RavensInsider[/url] about 20 down are the comments

I dont think they are a big deal, I think they are perfectly in order, but I wonder how many will take it the wrong way ?

[The Raven]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1321486123' post='873887']
WE as fans have been insanely critical of our offense. AS fans though dont expect much to get done when you complain though, that is the nature of a fan. WE used to have a drill sergeant who used to say the only time you worry about a soldier is when he stops complaining, because he has finally met his end.

That being said When Ray Lewis says you have to question what you are doing for balance, then you should probably wake up and take notice. He is the most influential figure in Baltimore sports history (although I had to think about him v.s. Johnny U.) So is it getting to be too much to be ignored.

Do you think anything gets done, and do you think Ray's comments were a detrimental, either way he gets a pass because of who he is, but just looking for what people think as to how it will affect this team?

[url="http://twitter.com/#!/RavensInsider"]http://twitter.com/#...!/RavensInsider[/url] about 20 down are the comments
[/quote]

I hope something gets done. Cam has been called out by a plethora of players in the past few years, and I can imagine that there is locker room tension regarding his job status as our OC. I think this is the year he gets fired. I don't think Ray's comments were a detriment, and I don't think he's "getting a pass". I think people just agree with him. Ray, Suggs, Rice, and others have been vocal about the play calling. Something needs to be done, and I'm actually glad players are speaking up. Maybe it'll let Cam know whats up.