Ray Rice

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1320694287' post='859053']
All this happiness and joy is icky!!

[u][b]I need something to complain about, so let's point some fingers[/b][/u], starting with Ray Rizzle.

Once AGAIN, we face a strong defense this season, and he puts up 2-something YPC.

I know, I know -- that holding call on the opening play was BS, and would have changed everything, right?
I dont think so...
first, it was a very close call; maybe it was maybe it wasn't a hold. But reality is, that play aside whether it was a hold or not, Rice did nothing to get the ground game going last night -- 2.4 YPC??

It seems to be a disturbing trend this season that when we face a tough defense, RR fails to get it going. Let's look at how he has done against the better defenses this season:

Week 1 - PIT
5.6 YPC

Week 2 - TEN
3.3 YPC

Week 4 - NYJ
2.6 YPC

Week 7 - JAX
3.5 YPC

Week 9 - PIT
2.4 YPC

Only one of those 5 games did he make an impact.

Even ARI held him to 3.5 YPC (however, running in 3 short TD's didnt help the YPC, and obviously we'll take points over yards any day).


On the season, RR is averaging 4.0 YPC, and as mediocre as that is, it would be MUCH lower if it weren't for the game against PIT and a 9 for 81 yards game @ STL (a defense who wont scare anyone).

For now, it's whatever -- but this needs to fix itself very soon. We're gearing up for a SB run and need that ground game to bring that extra dimension to our offense!
[/quote]

now see Fly! IF cats in here was to start this about Joe...they'd be labelled "haters!" [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]

~Mili

[FerrariFan87]

Rice has the 4th most TDs in the league among non-QBs (8)... he's been very impressive getting in the endzone, even if his YPC hasn't been great. I put that on the lack of continuity on the line.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1320853329' post='861531']

now see Fly! IF cats in here was to start this about Joe...they'd be labelled "haters!" [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]

~Mili
[/quote]


Oh, I am a hater! Of the OL

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1320710797' post='859608']
Not so much bluffing them but having Rice back there, that takes one guy out of coverage. With Leach back there, you get better blocking but one more guy will be in coverage b/c no one fears Leach out the backfield.
[/quote]
they should fear leach, hes got more receptions than our 3 and 4th WRs combined possibly lol

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Way to be controversial Fly. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/268213.gif[/img] [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]

But yeah I get what your sayin, but we dont really mix up our run in my opinion, we dont use vonta on 2&8 we onlyl bring him in in short yardage the majority of the time. I used to have a coach that said you never know when that one block will count, and if that is truly the case than we need to get out best and most agile blockers out there to expect more. I think we need to mix power run game with draws. generally those misdirections dont work because everybody in teh NFL is a little too fast for that, and the zone blocking is entirely to susceptible to the blitz although the cutback lanes are plentiful Ray does his best in the second level with open field imo. WE need to get back to pounding it with our All pro FB and run it right behind yanda or grubbs.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1320863741' post='861758']
Way to be controversial Fly. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/268213.gif[/img] [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]

But yeah I get what your sayin, but we dont really mix up our run in my opinion, we dont use vonta on 2&8 we onlyl bring him in in short yardage the majority of the time. I used to have a coach that said you never know when that one block will count, and if that is truly the case than we need to get out best and most agile blockers out there to expect more. I think we need to mix power run game with draws. generally those misdirections dont work because everybody in teh NFL is a little too fast for that, and the[b] zone blocking is entirely to susceptible to the blitz although the cutback lanes are plentiful [/b]Ray does his best in the second level with open field imo. WE need to get back to pounding it with our All pro FB and run it right behind yanda or grubbs.
[/quote]

I always thought zone blocking was better against the blitz than man blocking? Since theyre blocking zones moreso than players, I would have thought its easier to block a blitz than if they blitz. Also, since there's significantly less pulling in zone blocking, that makes it harder for LBs to blitz the gap and blow up the run. I may be wrong, but if you could explain it to me, that'd be great.

I think counters and misdirections can still be run. Yeah, they are fast in the NFL, but that doesn't matter if theyre running fast to the wrong side. I think that they can be run if the base play is run well. Also, with Rice's skillset, running counters and misdirections could be efficient. Even moreso due to the fact that he's so short, they cant' see him.

Agreed on everything else. We just paid Yanda 35 mil, lets run it behind him for a change! He's our best OL imo. Its close between him and Grubbs, but with Grubbs being out so long that makes it harder to compare.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

<p>[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1320870235' post='861924']</p>
I always thought zone blocking was better against the blitz than man blocking? Since theyre blocking zones moreso than players, I would have thought its easier to block a blitz than if they blitz. Also, since there's significantly less pulling in zone blocking, that makes it harder for LBs to blitz the gap and blow up the run. I may be wrong, but if you could explain it to me, that'd be great.

I think counters and misdirections can still be run. Yeah, they are fast in the NFL, but that doesn't matter if theyre running fast to the wrong side. I think that they can be run if the base play is run well. Also, with Rice's skillset, running counters and misdirections could be efficient. Even moreso due to the fact that he's so short, they cant' see him.

Agreed on everything else. We just paid Yanda 35 mil, lets run it behind him for a change! He's our best OL imo. Its close between him and Grubbs, but with Grubbs being out so long that makes it harder to compare.</p>
[/quote]
The zone blocking scheme in essence boils down to double teaming the offensive lineman at the point of attack depending on whether or not it is an inside zone, outside zone or stretch play and where the point of origin for the running back is in the formation. There are several different principles to accomplish that which means your center has to not only be physical but extremely smart to be able to identify where the point of attack is if it needs to shift outside or inside. So if you are running an outside zone then you would try double team the DE in hopes that the NT is not athletic enough to disable the cutback lanes because if gets penetration the O linman then has to adjust and try to reestablish dominance at the point of attack. which means he either will have to be chipped by the guard or center which will take away your numerical advantage at teh point of attack.

Lets say that you do have the numerical advantage at the point of attack, well the next thing is that all four lineman have to keep their eyes on the linebacker and which way he flows to the ball and in a 3-4 defense you are going to have to have 2 lineman keep their eyes on the linebacker if they are flowin fast you then lose 2 lineman while still needing to maintain your advantage at the point of attack if they are blitzing. The lineman have already started to open the gait at which they are moving because they have to move quickly to get the defense flowing so they can create cutback lanes or to just dominate the point of attack which if they are blitzing you may now be man on man if they just run a gap shoot bliz but if they get up field that will destroy anything you are doing because now you are 5 on 5 with your with people who have a free shot at the cutback lanes and the way most secondaries are set up most of them have that thumping safety that eradicates the cutback, ie troy, ed, eric berry, adrian wilson, pollard, etc etc.

Now that would be on a base blitz but if you have those exotic schemes that it becomes harder to identify who will be at the point of attack with so may people being able to disguise it. You sometimes have NT dropping back into coverage and DE's do it with relative frequency in odd blitzes so now, your pre snap read is shot and then all of the sudden those lineman have to just find somebody to hit, and considering the zone was created for lack of power among the O line but decent agility guys like Harrison can have a field day against you.

That is only a small taste of the scheme but there are many more intricacies that will play themselves out. As for our line McKinnie and Birk would kill it.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1320873962' post='862018']
<p>
The zone blocking scheme in essence boils down to double teaming the offensive lineman at the point of attack depending on whether or not it is an inside zone, outside zone or stretch play and where the point of origin for the running back is in the formation. There are several different principles to accomplish that which means your center has to not only be physical but extremely smart to be able to identify where the point of attack is if it needs to shift outside or inside. So if you are running an outside zone then you would try double team the DE in hopes that the NT is not athletic enough to disable the cutback lanes because if gets penetration the O linman then has to adjust and try to reestablish dominance at the point of attack. which means he either will have to be chipped by the guard or center which will take away your numerical advantage at teh point of attack.

Lets say that you do have the numerical advantage at the point of attack, well the next thing is that all four lineman have to keep their eyes on the linebacker and which way he flows to the ball and in a 3-4 defense you are going to have to have 2 lineman keep their eyes on the linebacker if they are flowin fast you then lose 2 lineman while still needing to maintain your advantage at the point of attack if they are blitzing. The lineman have already started to open the gait at which they are moving because they have to move quickly to get the defense flowing so they can create cutback lanes or to just dominate the point of attack which if they are blitzing you may now be man on man if they just run a gap shoot bliz but if they get up field that will destroy anything you are doing because now you are 5 on 5 with your with people who have a free shot at the cutback lanes and the way most secondaries are set up most of them have that thumping safety that eradicates the cutback, ie troy, ed, eric berry, adrian wilson, pollard, etc etc.

Now that would be on a base blitz but if you have those exotic schemes that it becomes harder to identify who will be at the point of attack with so may people being able to disguise it. You sometimes have NT dropping back into coverage and DE's do it with relative frequency in odd blitzes so now, your pre snap read is shot and then all of the sudden those lineman have to just find somebody to hit, and considering the zone was created for lack of power among the O line but decent agility guys like Harrison can have a field day against you.

That is only a small taste of the scheme but there are many more intricacies that will play themselves out. As for our line McKinnie and Birk would kill it.
[/quote]

Gotcha. Took a while to get, but I think I get what you're saying. I see what you're saying about the blitz screwing up the zone scheme. So, for example,If we're running an inside zone, against a 4-3, with a 3 tech on the RG. The RG and the RT would double him up the the LOLB, and the FB would take on the Mike, correct? Or a double up to the Mike and the FB blocks the LOLB. So, if the LOLB blitzes the B-gap, then the double team block would not be able to be executed and the RT would go to the LOLB immediately, based on the given blocking scheme? Kinda hard to word, bear with me lol. It'd be easier if I could diagram it.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1320876380' post='862060']

Gotcha. Took a while to get, but I think I get what you're saying. I see what you're saying about the blitz screwing up the zone scheme. So, for example,If we're running an inside zone, against a 4-3, with a 3 tech on the RG. The RG and the RT would double him up the the LOLB, and the FB would take on the Mike, correct? Or a double up to the Mike and the FB blocks the LOLB. So, if the LOLB blitzes the B-gap, then the double team block would not be able to be executed and the RT would go to the LOLB immediately, based on the given blocking scheme? Kinda hard to word, bear with me lol. It'd be easier if I could diagram it.
[/quote]

Yes that is correct. It would defeat the double team because then LT takes the OLB, thus it woulf be the RG on teh tackle with the center trying to get a LB, the other LG getting the LT but you still have to be weary of the defensive end so it would [profanity deleted]. Then you would have the LT on the OLB, the LG and the C on teh tackle, with the FB one on one with the LB, and the RG, on the other tackle 1 on 1 leaving the LE taking away the cutback allowing the S to fill the hole. at least in this situation.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1320877879' post='862101']

Yes that is correct. It would defeat the double team because then LT takes the OLB, thus it woulf be the RG on teh tackle with the center trying to get a LB, the other LG getting the LT but you still have to be weary of the defensive end so it would [profanity deleted]. Then you would have the LT on the OLB, the LG and the C on teh tackle, with the FB one on one with the LB, and the RG, on the other tackle 1 on 1 leaving the LE taking away the cutback allowing the S to fill the hole. at least in this situation.
[/quote]

Gotcha. If you've ever read the book Blood, Sweat, and Chalk (its a great read if you haven't) one of the contributors implies that it's easier to pick up the blitz in zone blocking rather than man. He states that its like being on a rail road with a buddy crashing into the defense, hitting the dlineman and hitting any backers along the way.

From personal experience, I always hated blocking blitz happy teams, but mostly on our more manblocking driven plays. There were some plays that we zoned and others that we used man. We tended to do better with the zone stuff against the blitz happy teams, but really, blitzes screw up blocking period. I think there's an argument both ways.

For example, say you run sweep, with a pulling guard, and there's an A-gap blitz. If the guard doesn't stay at home, the blitz kills the play and no one can really stop it. I think with zone, there's more potential to salvage a play with a blitz, but it all depends on the situation.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1320880653' post='862183']

Gotcha. If you've ever read the book Blood, Sweat, and Chalk (its a great read if you haven't) one of the contributors implies that it's easier to pick up the blitz in zone blocking rather than man. He states that its like being on a rail road with a buddy crashing into the defense, hitting the dlineman and hitting any backers along the way.

From personal experience, I always hated blocking blitz happy teams, but mostly on our more manblocking driven plays. There were some plays that we zoned and others that we used man. We tended to do better with the zone stuff against the blitz happy teams, but really, blitzes screw up blocking period. I think there's an argument both ways.

For example, say you run sweep, with a pulling guard, and there's an A-gap blitz. If the guard doesn't stay at home, the blitz kills the play and no one can really stop it. I think with zone, there's more potential to salvage a play with a blitz, but it all depends on the situation.
[/quote]

I think it depends on the competition level, in the NFl guys read and react quicker than any other level so the blitzing thing makes zone harder in my opinion.

Also we are seeing more creative blitz schemes every year. it is getting to the point where you almost have to say that is my guy I am going to get him.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1320880906' post='862186']

I think it depends on the competition level, in the NFl guys read and react quicker than any other level so the blitzing thing makes zone harder in my opinion.

Also we are seeing more creative blitz schemes every year. it is getting to the point where you almost have to say that is my guy I am going to get him.
[/quote]

That is true.

[Dudeman]

So let me see if I got the jist of this right....People aren't happy unless they have something to complain about?

Sounds like a personal problem to me. Ray is a great back, one of the top 5 at his position. I was watching an old video on Barry Sanders the other day and our little Ray of sunshine reminds me a lot of Barry.

So while we are at it we can complain that the defense doesn't get 8 turn-overs a game, or that Joe doesn't throw for 500 yards and 5 touchdowns a game.

On a side note the attempt at blocking a leaping James Harrison was hilarious! I also think that if he had tried to make that block that he would have been thrown into Joe which would've been worse. Lastly, the reason he is in on pass protection is to have the honest threat of a run.