MERGED: Threads Urging a Rational Approach To Our Woes

[Milton145]

[quote name='Thepurplehaze' timestamp='1319849552' post='842723']
torrey and Boldin were completely covered the whole game except maybe one or two throws I noticed Flacco did miss the mark(specifically one over the middle to Boldin).
[/quote]

That deep throw that Flacco missed Torrey Smith on would have been a TD, and possibly would have sprung some life back into the offense.

[gametyme]

It should be called uncommon sense because sense is not very common anymore.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1319849666' post='842726']

I agree with you. If we are blowing teams out, Taylor should get some reps. And I wouldn't mind seeing a few wildcat plays, but to do that you'd need to have Taylor take some reps at wide receiver/running back, otherwise everyone will know what the heck you are doing. But maybe the answer for not pulling Joe on Monday night was that they simply don't believe Taylor knows the offense well enough yet. That's what I'm betting on. Besides, despite it being a bad performance by Joe, it wasn't putrid i.e. last year's Bengal's debacle (he wasn't pulled after that either, and he responded by dominating the rest of the year, for what it's worth). But what I don't believe is that if your quarterback is struggling but not putrid, that you should try to bench him to win the current game only to insert him in the next game. Players need to work through their struggles and understand them, and Flacco did. [b]Unfortunately it was in the 4th quarter when the game was out of reach anyway. But maybe next time, it will be earlier and we can climb back. [/b] But benching a guy when he's playing poorly, in my opinion, will only stunt their growth in the long run - unless of course, they're Kyle Boller and just flat out can't play.
[/quote]

The sad thing is, it wasnt out of reach. The main problem they we have and i personally dont even think they will address is, the Hurry up Offense is Non Exsistent. Its not like this is the first time This Season, Now the TITANS game was out of reach but this game was far from being over. It Looked like the RAVENS were trying to run the clock out acting like we had a 2 score lead. Honestly we took more time in the so called hurry up offense than we did on our regular plays. Its Disgusting, honestly i hate even thinking about it. uhhhh no im pissed again. lol

[lowrider]

Regardless of whose to blame more, whether it is Flacco or anyone else on the offense. Still the main thing that made me cringe was just how ineffective we were as a unit. Blaming it on Flacco or Cameron or the offensive line or the wide receivers does not make the loss any better. That is what scares me the most. We had our best unit out there and it wasn't good enough...

1. Flacco needs to get stronger mentally, and fast. And he needs to be able to take hold of the offense on his own, otherwise we will not win a Super Bowl.

2. Cameron needs to call more plays that work for Flacco in his strengthens. I think that Flacco is better in the shotgun. Maybe that is wrong, but something needs to change because we aren't playing to his strengthens. And that is part of the reason why some quarterbacks look so good. Not always is it the quarterback being supremely talented that make a qb successful. Aka Fitzgerald in Buffalo with the short to intermediate routes, and Jason Campbell. The system is half of the battle

3. The offensive line has been terrible. Oher is frustrating, and Gerode hurts McKinney. McKinney doesn't know what he is doing because he is new to the offense, we don't need Gerode who really doesn't know what he is doing because he doesn't even know how to play the position.

4. Wide receivers need to be more consistent. Dickson is who I'm going to call out. Get open, catch the ball. The tight end has always been the most effective weapon in the Ravens offense and if we can't use it consistently, then we need to use Pitta more.


People can blame Flacco all they want, but when an entire offense doesn't get a first down until late in the 3rd quarter, there is bigger problems than the qb position. WAKE UP BALTIMORE because Nov 6th is coming around, and that is the most important game on our schedule right now.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1319845652' post='842654']
People act like other QBs aren't faced with the same problems as Flacco. From the O-line to wanting a new O-Coordinator, I can name many QBs that's going through the same thing, even worse. Good QBs overcome the shortcomings of their team and that doesn't mean if they overcome the shortcomings that it means a SB win. My faith in Flacco as is with most people in the world right now that follows the NFL, Ravens included is rattled. Starting to have doubts and like what's been pointed out by every expert for the last 2-3 years, only thing that will hold us back from winning is the play of Flacco. You think all these experts just speaking out of their b^%5% on the subject, you think they just automatically point the finger to Flacco assuming the rest of our team is SB ready?
[/quote]
But you're also acting like other QBs don't miss throws or ever make bad reads or ever throw a pick in crunch time and always bail out their bad supporting casts. Joe has bailed them out before (Texans game, Falcons game last year). Yeah there are other teams with bad O lines and bad coordinators. But specifically against the Jags, the receivers failing to get open is a monumental problem when your O line is not elite. Flacco in the first quarter delivered to Boldin on a short crossing route over the middle under a collapsing pocket, and Boldin dropped it. He got it Rice on second and long and Rice dropped it.

And as far as not coming through in the clutch, when was the last time Joe threw a pick on a win or lose drive? AFC title game against the Steelers in his rookie season against the best D in the league that year? Maybe at home against Cincy in 2009 after they scored the winning TD and we got it back with like 20 seconds left and Joe threw a hail mary pick?? 4 pick Bengals game last year?? Correct me if I'm missing any. But I do know that there aren't very many. The fact is, there haven't been a lot of crunch time drives in Joe's career. There haven't been a lot of instances where he's had a chance to win it or lose it at the end of the game. Some says he's unclutch, but he's damn sure not a choke artist.

And it's really not fair or smart to just sit there and accept the fact that other parts of the O will fail and if Joe can't make up for their mistakes, it's ENTIRELY on him. That is the argument that QB lovers use that drives me the most insane, and it doesn't make any sense at all.

There are other factors in the offense that are holding us back big that these analysts are simply choosing not to talk about. Are they intentionally speaking out of their bottom holes? I can't say yes or no. I don't know.

[757RavensFan]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1319845056' post='842639']


hmmm....3 years, 3 playoff births. He may not put up crazy numbers but when it comes ot winning he is the model of consistency. [b]Can GB, Pitt, Indy, or NE say that over the last 3 years.[/b]

PS only indy but how well is that going for them!!
[/quote]

No they can't, but I'd take their Super Bowl wins over our 3 straight playoff appearance every day and twice on Friday.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1319834380' post='842424']

Which we never do or have done. Something needs to change and fast. I dont mean to say lash out and kick the dog, but damn.
[/quote]
Exactly. I can't understand why. It feels so good to crush the Steelers or beat the Texans or Jets, but then it feels just as bad when we lose to teams we could've and should've beaten, like the Titans or Jags. Its really frustrating.

[wayne]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1319855468' post='842797']

But you're also acting like other QBs don't miss throws or ever make bad reads or ever throw a pick in crunch time and always bail out their bad supporting casts. Joe has bailed them out before (Texans game, Falcons game last year). Yeah there are other teams with bad O lines and bad coordinators. But specifically against the Jags, the receivers failing to get open is a monumental problem when your O line is not elite. Flacco in the first quarter delivered to Boldin on a short crossing route over the middle under a collapsing pocket, and Boldin dropped it. He got it Rice on second and long and Rice dropped it.

And as far as not coming through in the clutch, when was the last time Joe threw a pick on a win or lose drive? AFC title game against the Steelers in his rookie season against the best D in the league that year? Maybe at home against Cincy in 2009 after they scored the winning TD and we got it back with like 20 seconds left and Joe threw a hail mary pick?? 4 pick Bengals game last year?? Correct me if I'm missing any. But I do know that there aren't very many. The fact is, there haven't been a lot of crunch time drives in Joe's career. There haven't been a lot of instances where he's had a chance to win it or lose it at the end of the game. Some says he's unclutch, but he's damn sure not a choke artist.

And it's really not fair or smart to just sit there and accept the fact that other parts of the O will fail and if Joe can't make up for their mistakes, it's ENTIRELY on him. That is the argument that QB lovers use that drives me the most insane, and it doesn't make any sense at all.

There are other factors in the offense that are holding us back big that these analysts are simply choosing not to talk about. Are they intentionally speaking out of their bottom holes? I can't say yes or no. I don't know.
[/quote]

When those other QBs ( Romo and Vick especially ) make bad throws or reads, they get criticized so the point is Flacco is open to it too. The game he had against the Jags, only QB I can remember having a worser outing lately is Sanchez against us. What I will say was that immediate pressure was apon Sanchez majority of the game so that can be his cop out but the same can't be said about Joe in the Jags game. That's my first time watching a O play that terrible, you would think that the Jags had an all world defense in the sceondary with how we played most of the game or you would have thought the Jags threw something at us that we have neva seen.

I know its not al on Joe but I know some of it is on Joe, possibly even most of it.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1319857854' post='842843']
When those other QBs ( Romo and Vick especially ) make bad throws or reads, they get criticized so the point is Flacco is open to it too. The game he had against the Jags, only QB I can remember having a worser outing lately is Sanchez against us. What I will say was that immediate pressure was apon Sanchez majority of the game so that can be his cop out but the same can't be said about Joe in the Jags game. That's my first time watching a O play that terrible, you would think that the Jags had an all world defense in the sceondary with how we played most of the game or you would have thought the Jags threw something at us that we have neva seen.

I know its not al on Joe but I know some of it is on Joe, possibly even most of it.
[/quote]
Well here's what I want to nail down. What specifically do you think Flacco himself did against Jax that hurt the offense and was all on him?

[wayne]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1319858310' post='842854']

Well here's what I want to nail down. What specifically do you think Flacco himself did against Jax that hurt the offense and was all on him?
[/quote]

Ummmm...... neva said it was all on him.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1319858694' post='842862']
Ummmm...... neva said it was all on him.
[/quote]
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying of all the things that the offense did wrong that night, which of those things should Joe be legitimately blamed for?

[flynismo]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1319853066' post='842762']
Regardless of whose to blame more, whether it is Flacco or anyone else on the offense. Still the main thing that made me cringe was just how ineffective we were as a unit. Blaming it on Flacco or Cameron or the offensive line or the wide receivers does not make the loss any better. That is what scares me the most. We had our best unit out there and it wasn't good enough...

1. Flacco needs to get stronger mentally, and fast. And he needs to be able to take hold of the offense on his own, otherwise we will not win a Super Bowl.

2. Cameron needs to call more plays that work for Flacco in his strengthens. I think that Flacco is better in the shotgun. Maybe that is wrong, but something needs to change because we aren't playing to his strengthens. And that is part of the reason why some quarterbacks look so good. Not always is it the quarterback being supremely talented that make a qb successful. Aka Fitzgerald in Buffalo with the short to intermediate routes, and Jason Campbell. The system is half of the battle

3. The offensive line has been terrible. Oher is frustrating, and Gerode hurts McKinney. McKinney doesn't know what he is doing because he is new to the offense, we don't need Gerode who really doesn't know what he is doing because he doesn't even know how to play the position.

4. Wide receivers need to be more consistent. Dickson is who I'm going to call out. Get open, catch the ball. The tight end has always been the most effective weapon in the Ravens offense and if we can't use it consistently, then we need to use Pitta more.


People can blame Flacco all they want, but when an entire offense doesn't get a first down until late in the 3rd quarter, there is bigger problems than the qb position. WAKE UP BALTIMORE because Nov 6th is coming around, and that is the most important game on our schedule right now.
[/quote]

That's exactly what I just talked about with my brother tonight ... it would be a MUCH easier pill to swallow if it was as simple as just being able to point at one guy. But this is the ENTIRE OFFENSE that is playing like garbage at times, both collectively and individually.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Milton145' timestamp='1319849761' post='842729']

That deep throw that Flacco missed Torrey Smith on would have been a TD, and possibly would have sprung some life back into the offense.
[/quote]


So would have simple drive sustaining catches that were dropped, like the one Rice dropped. Or how about Rice punching in the TD instead of fumbling on the one? That could have been a game changer too, no?

[wayne]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1319859049' post='842869']

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying of all the things that the offense did wrong that night, which of those things should Joe be legitimately blamed for?
[/quote]
Needs to be able to fit the ball into tight windows and hit the man when he's open. Boldin was open on a route across the middle that was overthrown and on the sack by Smith, on the replay Dickson was open between the zone coming off the jam. Flacco need to hit his WR with some back shoulder passes too. When them CBs get on the WR and play press coverage, they have to turn their back once the WR comes off the jam. Look for the back shoulder pass, especially with someone like Boldin. Also, Flacco needs to take off runing more and that way, the LBs can't cheat all the way back to cover the routes by the WRs and TEs ( run game suppose to accomplish that also ). For starters, those are some things that can turn his performance completely around and when I say be able to put the ball into tight windows, I don't mean all the time but atleast sometimes.

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1319846389' post='842670']
Guess its a coiencidence that pretty much all of them points the finger to the same problem with the Ravens or do you think they just a bunch of bandwagon jumpers who just follow the lead of what the other one says without doing their own research, which one seems more logical? Take in mind that most of these experts played in the NFL so its fair to say they have the knowledge to quickly break down a team and found the problem within the team. They are human and they throw opinions out there so they can be wrong from time to time but for all of them to be saying the same thing about what holds us back from winning the big show, c'mon man!
[/quote]


Are you talking about the same 'experts' who said Ed Reed was hurting our team a couple years ago?

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1319860268' post='842884']
Needs to be able to fit the ball into tight windows
[/quote]


You mean like this?

[url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d34300/Flacco-to-Houshmandzadeh-TD"]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d34300/Flacco-to-Houshmandzadeh-TD[/url]

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1319860497' post='842887']


Are you talking about the same 'experts' who said Ed Reed was hurting our team a couple years ago?
[/quote]


Lol I remember that one. Everyone was saying it, too. That was like 09, right? Where he missed a few games and "only" had 3 picks?

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Milton145' timestamp='1319849328' post='842718']


Flacco's first 2 throws to Boldin..all on him. [b]Deep ball to Torrey Smith ..misses as he does routinely.[/b] Those plays flacco had time but just showed how poor his accuracy can be.
[/quote]
I won't say Joe has pin point accuracy because as we have seen he certainly does not, but which deep one are you talking about? The one in the endzone in which Torrey lost his footing and fell first or the underthrown one that was called for PI on JAX?

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1319860657' post='842889']


Lol I remember that one. Everyone was saying it, too. That was like 09, right? Where he missed a few games and "only" had 3 picks?
[/quote]


Yep, that was 2009 season...the experts said it on TV, and the same day everyone else was suddenly calling Ed Reed out for being a liability....

[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/34853_doh.GIF[/img]

[TreTheRaven]

[quote name='blitzking33' timestamp='1319842797' post='842581']
You can check my history. I have never said anything negative about Flacco until this year. I supported him week 1 of the Bengals game in 2008 just like everyone else. I jumped up and down when he ran in his first touchdown against the Bengals; just like everyone else. I watched him stink it up the following week, yet still supported him; just like everyone else. I watched him throw his first TD pass to Daniel Wilcox against Pittsburgh and thought "Joe's our franchise QB", just like everyone else. But the difference between me and you, is [b]I got tired of the inconsistency from him. I got tired of the excuses everyone gave him. I got tired of watching him stink it up when his weapons were upgraded.[/b] I just flat out lost hope when I saw him in Jacksonville last week. Yes, I want him to succeed, but I don't believe he will.
[/quote]

I am so with you on this part of the post. This isn't the only Raven forum that I see this kind of stuff.

Flacco throws an interception, blame Cam.
Flacco over-throws the ball, it is clearly the O-Lines fault.
Flacco struggles with completion percentage this season -- it's clearly Cam's fault.

It is maddening to see that there is [b]NOTHING [/b]ever wrong with Flacco. I am a firm believer that if Cam were fired, and Flacco continues to struggle -- it will be the new OC's fault.

This is the same crap that used to go on when Boller was around. Nothing was ever Boller's fault. Then when the time came around, everyone was all -- I said he should have been gone from the start and it often leaves one slapping their head.

I realize letting go of Cam & Flacco right now wouldn't be the wisest idea. But if this team starts to fall out of playoff contention -- it's time to start thinking something new. However, when the off-season comes -- I won't complain one bit if they're both gone. Unless there's a drastic improvement.

I like you, am sick of the inconsistency from Flacco. At the same time, I am also sick of Cam's stubborn playcalling.

Fix it or just hit the road. Problem solved.

[wayne]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1319860497' post='842887']



Are you talking about the same 'experts' who said Ed Reed was hurting our team a couple years ago?
[/quote]

Link please b/c I don't remember any experts saying Ed was hurting our team. I remember our own members on this forum was saying that when Zibi was in and we were like the #1 or Top 3 against the pass and when Ed came back, we dropped tremendously. Please pull up proof of this.

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1319861090' post='842893']
Link please b/c I don't remember any experts saying Ed was hurting our team. I remember our own members on this forum was saying that when Zibi was in and we were like the #1 or Top 3 against the pass and when Ed came back, we dropped tremendously. Please pull up proof of this.
[/quote]

Sorry Wayne, but I am far too lazy to look for stuff from a couple years ago. But trust me, a lot of people here remember what I'm talking about; maybe they aren't as lazy as I am and know where to find it.


Here you go, I found this on the forums:

[url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/14576-ed-reed/page__view__findpost__p__261350"]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/14576-ed-reed/page__view__findpost__p__261350[/url]

[Free Agent]

[quote name='TreTheRaven' timestamp='1319861053' post='842892']

I am so with you on this part of the post. This isn't the only Raven forum that I see this kind of stuff.

[b]Flacco throws an interception, blame Cam.[/b]
[b]Flacco over-throws the ball, it is clearly the O-Lines fault.[/b]
[b]Flacco struggles with completion percentage this season -- it's clearly Cam's fault.[/b]

It is maddening to see that there is [b]NOTHING [/b]ever wrong with Flacco. I am a firm believer that if Cam were fired, and Flacco continues to struggle -- it will be the new OC's fault.

This is the same crap that used to go on when Boller was around. Nothing was ever Boller's fault. Then when the time came around, everyone was all -- I said he should have been gone from the start and it often leaves one slapping their head.

I realize letting go of Cam & Flacco right now wouldn't be the wisest idea. But if this team starts to fall out of playoff contention -- it's time to start thinking something new. However, when the off-season comes -- I won't complain one bit if they're both gone. Unless there's a drastic improvement.

I like you, am sick of the inconsistency from Flacco. At the same time, I am also sick of Cam's stubborn playcalling.

Fix it or just hit the road. Problem solved.
[/quote]
EVERY QB throws interceptions. I know that Flacco's interception against the Jags cost us a chance to win the game, but we shouldnt have been in that position in the first place. We SHOULD have been leading by twenty points.


And Flacco has only struggled with incompletions this season. In 2008, his completion percentage was 60.0%. In 2009, it was 63.1%. In 2010, it was 62.6%. Only this year, has his completion percentage been below 60%. I can't explain the problem this year, other than a nearly entirely new receiving corps. But Flacco has been very good in past years. He does have his bad games, but so does every NFL QB.

Lastly, Boller only had a passer rating above 60% in two of his five seasons with Baltimore. In one of those 60% passer rating seasons, he only played five games. In the other, he threw more interceptions than touchdowns. Boller wasnt and isnt half the QB that Flacco has been.

[Ravenslifer]

I'm pretty sure I was one of the ones who negged edreedfromtheu on that post in 2009. I did it again just for good measure. I read it and I swear it pisses me off even more now then when I read it 2 years ago.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1319863356' post='842907']
EVERY QB throws interceptions. I know that Flacco's interception against the Jags cost us a chance to win the game, but we shouldnt have been in that position in the first place. We SHOULD have been leading by twenty points.


And Flacco has only struggled with incompletions this season. In 2008, his completion percentage was 60.0%. In 2009, it was 63.1%. In 2010, it was 62.6%. Only this year, has his completion percentage been below 60%. I can't explain the problem this year, other than a nearly entirely new receiving corps. But Flacco has been very good in past years. He does have his bad games, but so does every NFL QB.

Lastly, Boller only had a passer rating above 60% in two of his five seasons with Baltimore. In one of those 60% passer rating seasons, he only played five games. In the other, he threw more interceptions than touchdowns. Boller wasnt and isnt half the QB that Flacco has been.[/quote]

Other than short passes, flacco hasnt aired it out on previous years. Flacco isnt as bad as boller, but flacco bears the majority of the problem in offense. if he keeps on playing this inconsistent and doesnt bring his level of skill to the next level, we just simply cannot win SB. I can almost gurantee we'll goto playoff this year, but that is not what we are looking for. We are looking to get our next lombardi. Flacco needs to step up, be the work horse and have the work ethics of drew brees. Only then will we ever see our 2nd SB win for Baltimore Ravens.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1319867331' post='842924']
Other than short passes, flacco hasnt aired it out on previous years. Flacco isnt as bad as boller, but flacco bears the majority of the problem in offense. if he keeps on playing this inconsistent and doesnt bring his level of skill to the next level, we just simply cannot win SB. [b]I can almost gurantee we'll goto playoff this year, but that is not what we are looking for.[/b] We are looking to get our next lombardi. Flacco needs to step up, be the work horse and have the work ethics of drew brees. Only then will we ever see our 2nd SB win for Baltimore Ravens.
[/quote]

Fans of half the teams in the NFL would kill to be in our position. We have very high expectations for this team because we have been to the playoffs for three straight years, soon to be a fourth. Obviously we want to go far in the playoffs and make it to the Superbowl, but I am very happy with at least making the playoffs for three straight years. Plus, this is a rebuilding season, particularly on offense. Give the offense some time, and give Joe some slack. After all, it's got to be hard to work with an offensive coordinator like Cam Cameron.

[gregreid5]

I really dont think anyone believes we will miss the playoffs. Worst case seems to be a wild card birth. Going into the playoffs, we will get back our best OL grubbs, a legit WR in evans who people seem to be forgetting, and I think Jimmy Smith comes on in a nickel role.

Our OC is not going to change. Flacco is still going to be our QB. Only 2 teams that I think are better than us right now are the Packers and the Patriots. And that is why I think Jimmy Smith is so healthy. If we can get a legit 3 CBs on the field for those games, it will be a complete game changer. The patriots D absolutely sucks. If our team gets back healthy, and we start improving slightly on offense, I still think we win the AFC. Either way, good luck to whoever faces the packers. It would be hard to pick anyone against the Pack right now.

[BmoreRavens732]

Patriots are overrated...and the packers are just the same IMO...high powered offenses but the D's aren't nothing to fear. As for our D I think we can get a few stops n our offense can put up enough points to beat em

[Renediffie]

I think you have to be biased to not put both the saints and the 49'ers ahead of us at this point. Some other teams could make the list as well. Yes we have a killer defense but our offense looks suspect. God i hope we pull through but i dont like the fact that we have lost to 2 subpar teams in ugly manners.

[Radinho84]

i will keep in on a week to week basis. don't wanna hear anything about playoffs right now.

we have to win a lot of games again. we can't win a game that is played in two weeks just right now.

we have the cards this week. we gotta beat them first before talking about some other teams being overrated.

after last weeks i am sure a lot of people thought about us being overrated. goes what: we are not.

if we are able to bring our best football to the table we are very tough to beat. unfortunately be don't get that done on a regular basis this year...

bottom line: we have to be consistant to be a complete football team.

success will come all by itself if everybody brings it!!!