MERGED: Threads Urging a Rational Approach To Our Woes

[Ravenslifer]

I also want to add that Brady is on a team that seems to know how to maximize the talents of every single player that plays for them. While we have an offensive coordinator that seems to forget that certain pieces (i.e. tight ends, running backs) are even on our team at times.

[RivenHale]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1319840768' post='842530']
They're not excuses if they are true, you say? Okay... it's the offensive line, the playcalling, the receivers, and the running backs. Fine... if you want to blame the entire rest of the team... I can't convince you otherwise. But, can you honestly tell me Cam Newton's line, receivers, or basically anything else on the Panthers... is better than what the Ravens have? No, you can't. And he looks so much better than Flacco does. Even Tebow looks like he knows how to run an offense better. [/quote]

[b]The Cam Newton Thing[/b]

Newton is NUMBER ONE among current quarterbacks in interceptions this year, isn't he? Sure, he's throwing for like a thousand yards every game, but if you turn it over two or three times every game, you still lose that game. If you don't believe me, take a look at Carolina's record.

[b]The TIm Tebow Thing[/b]

Hahahahahahahahaha

[blitzking33]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1319834221' post='842417']
and what exactly is going on now? Cam called a bs game against Jax? So? Nice to see that you still cant comprehend that I prefer to give credit when it is due, and 4 out of 6 games this year, I think Cam did very well.

But that is off topic. How about addressing what I brought up in this thread instead?
[/quote]
Please.. You can make any excuse to defend your beloved QB. Why should we blame Cam for Joe's misreads, throwing into double and triple coverage, his lack of ball security, his inaccurate passes, and his lack managing the hurry up offense?
Sure Cam has been horrible calling the plays.. But at least 75% of the blame goes on the QB for not executing.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1319840768' post='842530']
[b][i]Where's the common sense? Roethlisberger is the ONLY quarterback who can extend a play better than Flacco? [/i][/b]

REALLY? Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, Cam Newton, Tom Brady, Josh Freeman... all of these quarterbacks have much better pocket presence and extend plays better than Flacco. And I only named a few. There are plenty more.

[b][i]Tyrod played horrible in the preseason? (Did Flacco look good in preseason? He sure didn't to me!)[/i][/b]

How? For a rookie with absolutely no offseason, I thought he looked very composed. The Ravens didn't feel the need to sign a veteran(and there were plenty available). So if you trust the Ravens decision to be so loyal and insist Flacco is the present and future, then you have to trust their judgement that Tyrod is good enough to be the guy if Flacco were to go down with an injury.

[i][b]How can you lose faith after one game?[/b][/i]

First of all, it's not just the Monday night game. It's most of the season with exception of the St. Louis game. The offense is underperforming. Secondly... you ask if you think the Steelers fans lose hope after horrible losses to horrible teams? YES, I do think they feel that way. But you know what gives them that hope right back? Knowing Flacco will not take the Ravens and extend that lead and reassure a division crown. As long as Ravens offense plays like they do, Steelers fans know they always have a chance.

[i][b]Tired of the excuses?[/b][/i]

They're not excuses if they are true, you say? Okay... it's the offensive line, the playcalling, the receivers, and the running backs. Fine... if you want to blame the entire rest of the team... I can't convince you otherwise. [b] But, can you honestly tell me Cam Newton's line,[/b] receivers, or basically anything else on the Panthers... is better than what the Ravens have? No, you can't. And he looks so much better than Flacco does. Even Tebow looks like he knows how to run an offense better. Good quarterbacks make the rest of their team look good. Bad quarterbacks make the rest of their team look bad. You'll keep making excuses, and obviously you'll keep believing them, but they are still excuses. They've already changed out the receivers twice over. How many more times can you use the SAME excuse? I mean, at least put your name to an actual receiver that you feel is worthy of catching passes from the mighty Flacco. Or tell us which offensive lineman the Ravens should get that is worth of blocking for him. That way if they do end up getting that receiver or lineman, and they still improve the offense.... then you can no longer use that excuse. So please, tell us you weren't one of those people who said we need to get Boldin, and we need to get rid of Derrick Mason. Please tell us you weren't one of the people saying we need to get a deep threat like Lee Evans or Torrey Smith. Because that's what the Ravens did, and the offense still isn't performing.
[/quote]

I can honestly say with a clear conscience that Cam Newtons line is better they have a young and extremely underrated line in my opinion. Now receivers we have and running backs it depends on whether on not deangelo returns to form. If he does tehn they definitely have us there too, if not then definitely us.

That is all.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='blitzking33' timestamp='1319841582' post='842545']
Please.. You can make any excuse to defend your beloved QB. Why should we blame Cam for Joe's misreads, throwing into double and triple coverage, his lack of ball security, his inaccurate passes, and his lack managing the hurry up offense?
Sure Cam has been horrible calling the plays.. But at least 75% of the blame goes on the QB for not executing.
[/quote]

absolutely not, If you are running the hurry up and have a 2 wr set when they knwo you have a limited amount of time then they just drop into coverage and can double 2 receivers if they choose. that is 100 percent on Cam for unimaginative offensive calls.

Second how can you say it was a lack of managing the offense when he had to look to the sideline for the calls after every play. that is again 100 percent on cam.

Now could flacco have thrown it away but great qbs always take the chance because they are confident in their ability. It is not sheer coincidence that Favre has every statistical category taken for a QB, as a corollary interceptions are among those 2 it does not diminish the fact that he was a dynamic play maker with 2 SB's 2 his credit. Is Flacco the second coming, probably not but he is a lot better than what he is being made to look like.

[Milton145]

People are on Flacco (well at least I am) because when a big play presents itself, he screws it up. You think I'm exaggerating? Torrey smith would probably back me up. Joe's missed sooooo many big plays to Torrey its kind of pathetic really.

[blitzking33]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1319840768' post='842530']
[b][i]Where's the common sense? Roethlisberger is the ONLY quarterback who can extend a play better than Flacco? [/i][/b]

REALLY? Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, Cam Newton, Tom Brady, Josh Freeman... all of these quarterbacks have much better pocket presence and extend plays better than Flacco. And I only named a few. There are plenty more.

[b][i]Tyrod played horrible in the preseason? (Did Flacco look good in preseason? He sure didn't to me!)[/i][/b]

How? For a rookie with absolutely no offseason, I thought he looked very composed. The Ravens didn't feel the need to sign a veteran(and there were plenty available). So if you trust the Ravens decision to be so loyal and insist Flacco is the present and future, then you have to trust their judgement that Tyrod is good enough to be the guy if Flacco were to go down with an injury.

[i][b]How can you lose faith after one game?[/b][/i]

First of all, it's not just the Monday night game. It's most of the season with exception of the St. Louis game. The offense is underperforming. Secondly... you ask if you think the Steelers fans lose hope after horrible losses to horrible teams? YES, I do think they feel that way. But you know what gives them that hope right back? Knowing Flacco will not take the Ravens and extend that lead and reassure a division crown. As long as Ravens offense plays like they do, Steelers fans know they always have a chance.

[i][b]Tired of the excuses?[/b][/i]

They're not excuses if they are true, you say? Okay... it's the offensive line, the playcalling, the receivers, and the running backs. Fine... if you want to blame the entire rest of the team... I can't convince you otherwise. But, can you honestly tell me Cam Newton's line, receivers, or basically anything else on the Panthers... is better than what the Ravens have? No, you can't. And he looks so much better than Flacco does. Even Tebow looks like he knows how to run an offense better. Good quarterbacks make the rest of their team look good. Bad quarterbacks make the rest of their team look bad. You'll keep making excuses, and obviously you'll keep believing them, but they are still excuses. They've already changed out the receivers twice over. How many more times can you use the SAME excuse? I mean, at least put your name to an actual receiver that you feel is worthy of catching passes from the mighty Flacco. Or tell us which offensive lineman the Ravens should get that is worth of blocking for him. That way if they do end up getting that receiver or lineman, and they still improve the offense.... then you can no longer use that excuse. So please, tell us you weren't one of those people who said we need to get Boldin, and we need to get rid of Derrick Mason. Please tell us you weren't one of the people saying we need to get a deep threat like Lee Evans or Torrey Smith. Because that's what the Ravens did, and the offense still isn't performing.
[/quote]
I love this man.. It's so true.

[RivenHale]

Joe's missed plays to a receiver he's played a total of, what, two months with? Yeah, that's astounding.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='blitzking33' timestamp='1319841582' post='842545']
Please.. You can make any excuse to defend your beloved QB. Why should we blame Cam for Joe's misreads, throwing into double and triple coverage, his lack of ball security, his inaccurate passes, and his lack managing the hurry up offense?
Sure Cam has been horrible calling the plays.. But at least 75% of the blame goes on the QB for not executing.
[/quote]

You've done everything you could to bash him. Don't you want the guy to succeed? Don't you want him to develop into a Superbowl-caliber quarterback?

[blitzking33]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1319841829' post='842550']

absolutely not, If you are running the hurry up and have a 2 wr set when they knwo you have a limited amount of time then they just drop into coverage and can double 2 receivers if they choose. that is 100 percent on Cam for unimaginative offensive calls.

Second how can you say it was a lack of managing the offense when he had to look to the sideline for the calls after every play. that is again 100 percent on cam.

[b]Now could flacco have thrown it away but great qbs always take the chance because they are confident in their ability.[/b] It is not sheer coincidence that Favre has every statistical category taken for a QB, as a corollary interceptions are among those 2 it does not diminish the fact that he was a dynamic play maker with 2 SB's 2 his credit. Is Flacco the second coming, probably not but he is a lot better than what he is being made to look like.
[/quote]
Are you referring to Flacco as a great QB because he took a chance instead of throwing it away????
Negative. You can't blame everything on Cam when Flacco doesn't execute! Period!
Also, I too saw Flacco looking over to Cam. Why? Doesn't he have a Mic in his helmet?!?!
Aside from that, he does have bad management skills. Did you notice Rice and co. getting off the ground, finding the ref to return the ball and [b]HUSTLE[/b] back to the line? What was Flacco doing? I saw him walking.. burning time.

[Natty Boh]

[i][b]"What Happened To Common Sense?"[/b][/i]


Common sense is not so common...unfortunately. But I like reading all opinions.

[Milton145]

[quote name='RivenHale' timestamp='1319842031' post='842559']
Joe's missed plays to a receiver he's played a total of, what, two months with? Yeah, that's astounding.
[/quote]

It still isn't acceptable. Plus with the way Torrey separates from his DBs you'd think Flacco would have enough accuracy to drop it in there more than what..3 or 4 times the whole season?

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Milton145' timestamp='1319841835' post='842551']
People are on Flacco (well at least I am) when a big play presents itself and he screws it up. You think I'm exaggerating? Torrey smith would probably back me up. Joe's missed sooooo many big plays to Torrey its kind of pathetic really.
[/quote]

I dont think Fly was trying to absolve Flacco of blame, in fact you can reference one of my earlier posts it clearly states that he is not shifting blame from Flacco but benching him may remedy the SYMPTOM for now but not the disease .

[flynismo]

[quote name='blitzking33' timestamp='1319841582' post='842545']
Please.. You can make any excuse to defend your beloved QB. Why should we blame Cam for Joe's misreads, throwing into double and triple coverage, his lack of ball security, his inaccurate passes, and his lack managing the hurry up offense?
Sure Cam has been horrible calling the plays.. But at least 75% of the blame goes on the QB for not executing.[/quote]


thats exactly the problem with some of you guys. I just got done DEFENDING Cam Cameron by saying he did well in 4 of 6 games, and yet you make it try to sound like I'm blaming him for Flacco's screwups.

No, I cant blame Cam for Flacco's overthrows anymore than I can blame Cam for our OL being crap or guys not catching a perfectly thrown ball.
And I'm also not going to blame Flacco for Rice and Boldin's issues...and I'm curious, why do you guys not say a peep about them?

And yeah, Flacco is my 'beloved QB'. He is a Raven. I'll defend any Raven from dumb or unfair criticism.

[blitzking33]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1319842140' post='842561']

You've done everything you could to bash him. Don't you want the guy to succeed? Don't you want him to develop into a Superbowl-caliber quarterback?
[/quote]
You can check my history. I have never said anything negative about Flacco until this year. I supported him week 1 of the Bengals game in 2008 just like everyone else. I jumped up and down when he ran in his first touchdown against the Bengals; just like everyone else. I watched him stink it up the following week, yet still supported him; just like everyone else. I watched him throw his first TD pass to Daniel Wilcox against Pittsburgh and thought "Joe's our franchise QB", just like everyone else. But the difference between me and you, is I got tired of the inconsistency from him. I got tired of the excuses everyone gave him. I got tired of watching him stink it up when his weapons were upgraded. I just flat out lost hope when I saw him in Jacksonville last week. Yes, I want him to succeed, but I don't believe he will.

[hawkprey]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/jrTqB.jpg[/img]

[EternalRavensDefense]

Lol, I find it hilarious how we have fans here who want Flacco to fail just so they can have tyrod Taylor in as quarterback. What a sad group who don't acknowledge what Flacco has done in such a short time despite coming from Delware in the Shotgun option and being billed as someone who did not have a great chance of succeeding. It seem that we have fans that went to keep back to our rotating group of quarterback and going up and down throughout the years. Oh well, if losing make them happy, so be it.

[Milton145]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1319842699' post='842577']

I dont think Fly was trying to absolve Flacco of blame, in fact you can reference one of my earlier posts it clearly states that he is not shifting blame from Flacco but benching him may remedy the SYMPTOM for now but not the disease .
[/quote]

Oh no I'm by no means wanting Flacco to be benched. No unlike the others, I'm pretty sure things would get even worse with Tyrod in. I just think Joe's play (not entirely his fault but really...the QB is supposed to get you through adversity) has been extremely poor.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='blitzking33' timestamp='1319842395' post='842568']
Are you referring to Flacco as a great QB because he took a chance instead of throwing it away????
Negative. You can't blame everything on Cam when Flacco doesn't execute! Period!
Also, I too saw Flacco looking over to Cam. Why? Doesn't he have a Mic in his helmet?!?!
Aside from that, he does have bad management skills. Did you notice Rice and co. getting off the ground, finding the ref to return the ball and [b]HUSTLE[/b] back to the line? What was Flacco doing? I saw him walking.. burning time.
[/quote]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. It is the confidence that all great QB's have. Favre's first 4 years were just as up and down he learned to get it in check but still had the "gunslinger" mentality. That is the type of QB Joe is.

Now I am not blaming him for everything just stating the root cause is cam the symptom is Joe. It is no coincidence that once a team finds an OC that fits their players they keep them for a while. And an Oc is easier to replace than a potential franchise QB that is a fact.

As for the mic in the helmet he sure does, but it turns off at 15 seconds. if the play is not in by then than they have to use hand signals, which is why the backup qb is usually right by the OC in 2 minute. And he was probably looking over thinking"how about we have a sense of urgency." If this was sporadic than I would say it is joe but since it is consistent I am putting my money on the play caller.

If he sprinted up there it does not matter if he does not have the play. he could be the first one up there and it would not matter.

[blitzking33]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1319842721' post='842578']
thats exactly the problem with some of you guys. I just got done DEFENDING Cam Cameron by saying he did well in 4 of 6 games, and yet you make it try to sound like I'm blaming him for Flacco's screwups.

No, I cant blame Cam for Flacco's overthrows anymore than I can blame Cam for our OL being crap or guys not catching a perfectly thrown ball.
And I'm also not going to blame Flacco for Rice and Boldin's issues...and I'm curious, why do you guys not say a peep about them?

And yeah, Flacco is my 'beloved QB'. He is a Raven. I'll defend any Raven from dumb or unfair criticism.
[/quote]
And Tyrod Taylor isn't a RAVEN? You're talking nonsense.
What is Boldin's issue? Getting frustrated when Joe can't deliever a catchable pass? Not able to reach out far enough to catch an outstretched pass from Joe?
What is Rice's issue? Don't say fumbling because he only fumbled ONCE in last week's game, and you guys act like he fumbled like MJD. What is there to say about Rice? He HAS BEEN AND IS the Raven's offense the past couple of years; NOT JOE.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Milton145' timestamp='1319842891' post='842586']

Oh no I'm by no means wanting Flacco to be benched. No unlike the others, I'm pretty sure things would get even worse with Tyrod in. I just think Joe's play (not entirely his fault but really...the QB is supposed to get you through adversity) has been extremely poor.
[/quote]

It is sort of the perfect (insert expletive) storm for Flacco. Think about it.

Rice gets the ball 8 times. There goes the running game

Their db's must have looked like Dora the Explorer because the refs let them be backpacks that game. There goes your first 2 receiving options.

Gurode missed several blocks among others. There goes the protection.

Then the play take's 20 of 25 seconds to get in tehre so he has no time to read the D, just snap it and wing it. There goes sight adjustments,

So you take away a QB's protection, running game, pre-snap reads, and receivers, how well do you honestly expect him to do.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='blitzking33' timestamp='1319843122' post='842594']
And Tyrod Taylor isn't a RAVEN? You're talking nonsense.
What is Boldin's issue? Getting frustrated when Joe can't deliever a catchable pass? Not able to reach out far enough to catch an outstretched pass from Joe?
[b]What is Rice's issue?[/b] Don't say fumbling because he only fumbled ONCE in last week's game, and you guys act like he fumbled like MJD. What is there to say about Rice? He HAS BEEN AND IS the Raven's offense the past couple of years; NOT JOE.
[/quote]

He got 8 carries that is a pretty big issue. Is that Flacco's fault ??

[blitzking33]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1319843288' post='842599']

It is sort of the perfect (insert expletive) storm for Flacco. Think about it.

Rice gets the ball 8 times. There goes the running game

Their db's must have looked like Dora the Explorer because the refs let them be backpacks that game. There goes your first 2 receiving options.

Gurode missed several blocks among others. There goes the protection.

Then the play take's 20 of 25 seconds to get in tehre so he has no time to read the D, just snap it and wing it. There goes sight adjustments,

So you take away a QB's protection, running game, pre-snap reads, and receivers, how well do you honestly expect him to do.
[/quote]
QB protection: Flacco HAD TIME to throw on most of the plays. WR's had seperation but Joe has a tendency of locking on to his main target and if it isn't there, he gets rid of it to Rice.

Running game: If Flacco had done his job in the first place, the running game would've been there. Throughout the whole game, there was an urgency of "we need to get a first down, we have none" We were only down by a few but Flacco's play made it feel like we were down 45-0. That's why Cam didn't turn to the running game.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1319843288' post='842599']


It is sort of the perfect (insert expletive) storm for Flacco. Think about it.

Rice gets the ball 8 times. There goes the running game

Their db's must have looked like Dora the Explorer because the refs let them be backpacks that game. There goes your first 2 receiving options.

Gurode missed several blocks among others. There goes the protection.

Then the play take's 20 of 25 seconds to get in tehre so he has no time to read the D, just snap it and wing it. There goes sight adjustments,

So you take away a QB's protection, running game, pre-snap reads, and receivers, how well do you honestly expect him to do.
[/quote]



Hahahahahaha dora the explorer hillarious!

Can that be the new thing ? Im going to go "dora" all up on you!!!

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='blitzking33' timestamp='1319843642' post='842606']
QB protection: Flacco HAD TIME to throw on most of the plays. WR's had seperation but Joe has a tendency of locking on to his main target and if it isn't there, he gets rid of it to Rice.

[b]Running game: If Flacco had done his job in the first place, the running game would've been there. Throughout the whole game, there was an urgency of "we need to get a first down, we have none" We were only down by a few but Flacco's play made it feel like we were down 45-0. That's why Cam didn't turn to the running game.[/b]
[/quote]

The protection issue you are alone on, we had no time the announcers said it, harbs said it, analysts said it, the line said it, Cam said it. I dont know how many more people have to say it for you to believe it.

AS to the running game comment not to be rude or personal but that is pathetic logic. You are telling me Cam cant look at the scoreboard and tell that we only need a few points, therefore he abandons the run game. I question his playcalling, and you defend it by saying he sucks at math. Then on to the fact you say that the QB is playing badly therefore Cam says we should throw it more because it is not working. No that is actually the exact opposite of what you should do. If you have only run the ball 8 times and your passing game isnt going well and you are down by less than 10 maybe you should rely on a top 3 back in the league. that argument also makes no sense. Again not personal I just cant think of a reasonable train of thought for that one.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1319843745' post='842609']
Hahahahahaha dora the explorer hillarious!

Can that be the new thing ? Im going to go "dora" all up on you!!!
[/quote]

If you like it than absolutely it can be the new thing. I would love to start handing out some Dora beatdowns.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1319833776' post='842399']
Sorry but if Vick, Shaub, Romo...... played for this team, hell yea I think they can do better. You gus act like with other teams, everything is laid ot perfectly for the QBs. They are faced with some of the same problems Joe is faced with, some have even more problems. No one said it was going to be perfect or easy for Flacco but the good QBs still find a way through the muck.
[/quote]
Yes, what you said is true, but Vick, Schaub, and Romo have looked equally terrible at times this year. Its not like they are making incredible plays to win every game in the face of adversity.

The fact is, other than Aaron Rodgers, no QB has played consistently all season. Phillip Rivers, who most people consider to be an elite QB, has had a terrible season throwing more picks than TDs. Vick's team is 2-4 and he has accounted for what 10 turnovers? Romo has singlehandedly lost 2 games, and even though he has played heroically at times he is just as inconsistent as Flacco has been. Schaub is exactly the same, he [b]never[/b] comes through in the clutch.

Fly, thanks for starting this thread. I agree with you completely. It just baffles my mind how so much of this fanbase flies off the handle after a bad game. Our team isnt perfect, and we should stop expecting them to be. We got exposed in an embarrassing fashion on Monday night and it still stings, but that doesnt mean we cant rebound and finish off the season strong and have a solid run in the playoffs. Our offense needs to improve, and Flacco is a large part of that, but its not just on him.

[blitzking33]

[quote name='EternalRavensDefense' timestamp='1319842870' post='842585']
Lol, I find it hilarious how we have fans here who want Flacco to fail just so they can have tyrod Taylor in as quarterback. What a sad group who don't acknowledge what Flacco has done in such a short time despite coming from Delware in the Shotgun option and being billed as someone who did not have a great chance of succeeding. It seem that we have fans that went to keep back to our rotating group of quarterback and going up and down throughout the years. Oh well, if losing make them happy, so be it.
[/quote]
Flacco isn't taking us through those 'up and down years'?......???? It's been one hell of a roller coaster ride for 4 years. No consistency what so ever.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='blitzking33' timestamp='1319844861' post='842633']
Flacco isn't taking us through those 'up and down years'?......???? It's been one hell of a roller coaster ride for 4 years. No consistency what so ever.
[/quote]

hmmm....3 years, 3 playoff births. He may not put up crazy numbers but when it comes ot winning he is the model of consistency. Can GB, Pitt, Indy, or NE say that over the last 3 years.

PS only indy but how well is that going for them!!

[Ravenseconbeast]

Wait, you mean "where are the flacco haters now" thread wasnt an embarassing enough for you? If I remember correctly, you posted that after Ravens won the RAMS.( of course, "common sense" would tell you you should not post that when we have a jets game week after that) And you ranted about how great flacco is like he won the game himself. On contrary, now you rant about everyone, blaming every other players in ravens BUT flacco. Oh..the irony..i ask you, "where happened to common sense?"