Why Do We Struggle Against A Base 4-3 Defense

[Gtown Purple]

I did some research and I found that the Jags and Titans run a base 4-3 and run 4-3 primarily on defense. Does it resonate with anyone else that our 2 losses came against teams with a base 4-3 and our wins came against teams that run mostly 3-4?

[PaintinPGPurple]

We struggle against 4-3 teams that generate pressure using just their front 4. When that happens, we go max protect and send 3 receivers against 7 men in coverage.

[grape drank]

I think its because our O line is out of sync. Also, the fact that the Jags, and Titans were able to get pressure with just a 4 man rush gave them a ton of flexibility on the back end. Not as much as our defence though as we can get pressure fairly consistently with only 3 guys, giving us a ridiculous amount of flexibility to blitz, drop, w.e.

Also Rice's running style is very "visual" He starts off with an almost jog, if he doesn't see anything to the outside, he just cuts back inside and takes it as far as he can sometimes for a big gain. But last night The OLB's were doing a good job of containing him, and cutting back into a 4 man front thats playing well is a lot harder than it sounds. Still gotta bang away, then bring some play action. Our play calling reminded me of the time when I first got madden, and decided to put it on all madden and got dusted.

[PaintinPGPurple]

P.S. when teams do what I said above, combined with press coverage against our 3 recievers, the pocket collapses in like 2.5 seconds. We should've been using motions, pick plays/bunch formations to beat the press. The receivers were just left to fight at the line while the OLine let the pocket collapse before they even got off the line or as soon as they ran the first few yards of their routes.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='PaintinPGPurple' timestamp='1319719725' post='840575']
P.S. when teams do what I said above, combined with press coverage against our 3 recievers, the pocket collapses in like 2.5 seconds. [u][b]We should've been using motions, pick plays/bunch formations to beat the press. The receivers were just left to fight at the line while the OLine let the pocket collapse [/b][/u]before they even got off the line or as soon as they ran the first few yards of their routes.
[/quote]

very true! that 4-3 can be tough.

~Mili

[Dfence4champs2052]

Yes! Great observation....in addition to Cover 2 seemingly having Joe's number we have struggled mightily versus 4-3 base defenses. As mentioned before when the front four are getting great pressure like both our losses we always have trouble. The press coverage was frustrating though. We need our speedy guys to get loose and do some damage. Hurry back Lee!!!!

[Bltravens]

In its basic problem, our Oline cant pick up stunts or twists to save its life. 43 teams usually use ALOT of those to generate pressure with its front 4. You dont generally see 34 teams doing that a whole lot, 34 teams generate pressure by disguising where the 4th blitzer is coming from.

[Mick0311]

More moving parts at the line really exploits our weakness. We need Grubbs back asap.

[The Raven]

This really perplexes me. I've never been more confused about something in my life. As an offensive lineman myself, I hate blocking 3-4 or 3-5 (HS level) teams. 4 man fronts are actually relatively easy to block compared to 3 man fronts. It seems to be generally accepted that the 3-4 is harder to block than the 4-3, but our OL seems to be the exception to that rule. But ya know, it isn't all OL. The WRs get killed by the Cover 2, which is associated with the 4-3 defense. But why we struggle against the 4-3 confuses me so much.

[Suggs Package]

I think the answer to this isn't about the linemen at all. Linebackers in a 4-3 tend to be more agile and play pass defense better than the backers in a 3-4.

Because the 4-3 linebackers are better in coverage, Flacco tends to hold the ball longer trying to find an open receiver, which leads to more pressure.

If you haven't noticed, both Tennessee and Jacksonville have really good linebacker cores.

Also, our offensive line isn't as bad as we think, its probably one of the best in the NFL, even as patchwork as it is.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1319759402' post='841433']
I think the answer to this isn't about the linemen at all. Linebackers in a 4-3 tend to be more agile and play pass defense better than the backers in a 3-4.

Because the 4-3 linebackers are better in coverage, Flacco tends to hold the ball longer trying to find an open receiver, which leads to more pressure.

If you haven't noticed, both Tennessee and Jacksonville have really good linebacker cores.

Also, our offensive line isn't as bad as we think, its probably one of the best in the NFL, even as patchwork as it is.
[/quote]

That doesn't explain why we couldn't run the ball on Jacksonville or Tennessee......

And our OL has been poor.

[Suggs Package]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1319760749' post='841460']

That doesn't explain why we couldn't run the ball on Jacksonville or Tennessee......

And our OL has been poor.
[/quote]

Generally, a 4-3 is good against the run and with the right talent at LB, it can be good against the pass. The reason a 4-3 is fundamentally better against the run is because there's an extra lineman to fill rushing gaps. This explains why we have more trouble running against 4-3 teams. We don't have the receiving talent right now to take advantage of the 4th lineman on the field instead of a linebacker, so this is why sometimes we don't pass well against the 4-3 either. Plus a good MLB in a 4-3 can be a problem because they are usually more athletic than ILBs in a 3-4. Cam had the right idea of trying to pass a lot against the Jags, but the execution was poor.

[dscola1974]

[quote name='PaintinPGPurple' timestamp='1319719352' post='840570']
We struggle against 4-3 teams that generate pressure using just their front 4. When that happens, we go max protect and send 3 receivers against 7 men in coverage.
[/quote]
Exactly. Our Oline plus 2 backs=7 blockers on 4 rushers. Yet after a 5 step drop the QB still gets hit. 3 receivers running routes vs 7 players covering plus pressure = sack or pick.

[Tiz]

Our struggles are not limited to just a 43.
We are simply inconsistent.
St.l.base 43 no struggle there..
pitt 34 we are very inconsistent against
Nyj 34 offense struggled
Denver last yr 43 no struggle
Carolina 43 no struggle

Seems to me some take a small sample size to make a general statement.

We have seen great games against both fronts and bad games against both