Why Is Our Offense So Chronically Bad?

[DMH_in_WA]

This is kind of a question I've had in my head for years too. I could never figure out how our offense, which plays against OUR defense in practice, can be this anemic year after year. Why is it that practice against a superior defensive squad doesn't seem to translate to improved play of the offense? In everything else in life, when you practice or play against superior opponents over and over, your own level play elevates even if you lose every contest. Apparently not in this case.

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1319658505' post='839726']
This is kind of a question I've had in my head for years too. I could never figure out how our offense, which plays against OUR defense in practice, can be this anemic year after year. Why is it that practice against a superior defensive squad doesn't seem to translate to improved play of the offense? In everything else in life, when you practice or play against superior opponents over and over, your own level play elevates even if you lose every contest. Apparently not in this case.
[/quote]

I think during the season our offense practices against the scout team, not our 'real' defense.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='EdReedFTW' timestamp='1319657740' post='839696']

You know, I thought it might just be a scouting issue with the offensive players also. If you think about it, when was the last time we got a productive offensive player that we picked in the middle rounds? And not just offensive linemen who normally go in the middle rounds. On defense we keep finding quality late round/free agent players (Ellerbe/McClain, McPhee, Adalius Thomas..) But on offense we just dont find those hidden gems. I think that's why the offense suffers. The offense doesnt have the hidden talent that the defense is driven by.
[/quote]

Agreed but I think Doss could fall into that category given a chance, maybe David Reed too, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon.

[Romo Ravens]

I don't know why we're always inconsistent, but I'm getting really tired of. Why do we keep giving Cam Cameron chances? I completely lost it when he said that audibles are overrated. WHAT?! I just want a spread em' out offense and use our WR's like Green Bay does or like the Saints do. Put Flacco in the shotgun more. His play action is absolutely horrendous.

Make significant changes if we want to improve. If this means drafting offensive linemen with the first three picks, do it. If this means giving less touches to Ray Rice, do it. You can't win the Super Bowl anymore by playing defense and letting your RB tote the rock 30+ plus times. You just can't. You need to air it and strike fast. We should fire Cam Cameron, and whoever we promote, someone should have him watch how the Saint's offense has been playing for the last 4 years. That's what I want. We can't even do the freakin' no huddle correctly.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='EdReedFTW' timestamp='1319657740' post='839696']

You know, I thought it might just be a scouting issue with the offensive players also. If you think about it, when was the last time we got a productive offensive player that we picked in the middle rounds? And not just offensive linemen who normally go in the middle rounds. On defense we keep finding quality late round/free agent players (Ellerbe/McClain, McPhee, Adalius Thomas..) But on offense we just dont find those hidden gems. I think that's why the offense suffers. The offense doesnt have the hidden talent that the defense is driven by.
[/quote]
The Ray Lewis effect comes into play with those defensive players though. Ive read countless articles stating that new FAs and newly drafted players come to the team and out of fear play the best theyve ever played in their lives, due to Ray Lewis. Theyre afraid of his wrath if they play like crap and dont want to let him down.

Theres nobody like that on offense because it has to be from the QB.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1319643011' post='839266']
Why is our offense so chronically bad?

I’m seriously looking for some theories here, even if they’re off-the-wall.

Think about what we’ve tried over the years.

Cavanaugh
Fassel
Billick
Cameron

Enumerable QBs
Different RBs (both great and not so great)
A horde of WRs
Lots of different o-linemen

Nothing has ever really worked. Why?

Is it the curse of Vinnie Testaverde?

Is it because our defense has been so good and we’re not ‘entitled’ to have both a good defense and a good offense?

Is it because our defense intimidates our offense, steals their confidence, and turns them into non-performers?

Is it because we’ve never really stabilized the o-line for any length of time?

I’m nearly ready to accept the curse theory.
[/quote]


Here is what i dont get, Our Offense practices against this Great Defense. So why in the world are we struggling against average or above average defenses. The Offense should have a cake walk after playing against our defense everyweek.

Im starting to think its the Whole coaching staff. Yea it would be great to get into the Play offs but i really really dont think i can take another loss so close to the SB. If we arnt going to the SB, i rather us not even make it to the Play offs. The good thing that would come out of that is a guarantee that Cam is gone. But i will believe it when i see it when he gets canned.

I know alot of teams hate , i mean hate their O.C but us as RAVENS fans can honestly say that with proof.

[berad]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1319650000' post='839464']
I'm not buying the whole argument of The Ravens have focused on defense more

The Ravens have used some pretty high draft picks on offense.(Boller, Taylor,Clayton, Oher, etc..) some of those guys just didn't last long..they've never really had to worry about the RB position..Jamal was so good for so many years..
[/quote]

Psh, Jamal Lewis was good between 2000-2004, and he missed all of 2001. He stunk the rest of his tenure here.

[ball hawkin 20]

If only we had drafted Tom Brady, Ravens woulda had a dynasty...

[Militant X 1]

i don't believe in curses so i know that that isn't it!

~Mili

[Raven146]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1319648592' post='839408'] This line made me chuckle. What exactly constitutes a "copy"? And if by "simple and straight-forward", you mean runs like dives, draws stretches, tosses, sweeps etc., [i]all[/i] offenses have those runs in their play-book.[/quote]

If i can find the article I will post it , where in an after game interview Cam agreed with Suggs and proceeded to state this team only has so many run plays there is only so much we can do. The running game is copied after Houston.

[Guest RBates]

Harbaugh and Cam are Horrible, look no further than that.

[CapoRocky]

Who knows why everyone loses their minds when we lose a game? Our offense will be fine. I just hope we get it together in time to beat the Cards.

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1319666703' post='839947']Harbaugh and Cam are Horrible, look no further than that.[/quote]

That could explain the last 3 years, but not the last 14.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1319649139' post='839428']

Flacco has a number of issues but he doesn't have a Pro Bowl offense around him. There have been individuals that made Pro Bowls in the past but outside of Rice, Neal in '08, maybe Leach right now and a few o-lineman over the years, no one on offense has been Pro Bowl caliber during Joe's time here.
[/quote]


Qb's make the receiver's (look at Fitz, Q now, Santonio, or look at the receivers Brady has made.). That has always been a fact. We have given him everything else we can. RB's, FB's, Good Line's for the most part and he still cant get it done. It is his job to make the WR's look good.

[Moderator 3]

Please do not hijack this into ANOTHER Flacco thread. We are talking about an offense that has been pretty bad for 14 years.

[CapoRocky]

Defense won the SB once! I had no confidence in that offense at all. They went into a coma during that season, but came together in the playoffs. Who knows what will happen? Cameron will be gone for sure! I don't think that he will make it through the season. I think that the Ravens will get better. It hurt when we lost to the Titans, but Monday night was the most painful loss since the playoffs last year.

[PurpleReign92]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1319669043' post='840013']
Defense won the SB once! I had no confidence in that offense at all. They went into a coma during that season, but came together in the playoffs. Who knows what will happen? Cameron will be gone for sure! I don't think that he will make it through the season. I think that the Ravens will get better. It hurt when we lost to the Titans, but Monday night was the most painful loss since the playoffs last year.
[/quote]
The defense could not out play the refs... The Jags were "Hack a Shacking" our receivers no refs called anything. Everything and anything was called on our defense + Michael Oher false start we were not going out play the refs handing flags on every play....

[The Raven]

[quote name='Raven146' timestamp='1319666199' post='839934']

If i can find the article I will post it , where in an after game interview Cam agreed with Suggs and proceeded to state this team only has so many run plays there is only so much we can do. The running game is copied after Houston.
[/quote]

Well yeah... Thats common sense that there's only so many run plays we can do. But, you can still run them! You can still execute the plays better! You could run the Iso all day if you can execute it. It doesn't matter how many runs you have, it matters if they can be executed. And really, whether there's only so much they can do, or so many runs they can call, 8 carries for a pro bowl RB is terrible!!! And the thing is, he had a 3.5 YPC average off of 8 carries. MJD had an identical average, but got the ball 30 times.

Also, the running game is not "copied after Houston" Did Houston's OC invent the zone blocking scheme? Did they invent the zone stretch? Did they invent the inside zone or iso? Nahh. These plays have been around since the 60's and earlier.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1319668813' post='840010']


Qb's make the receiver's (look at Fitz, Q now, Santonio, or look at the receivers Brady has made.). That has always been a fact. We have given him everything else we can. RB's, FB's, Good Line's for the most part and he still cant get it done. It is his job to make the WR's look good.
[/quote]
Hate to say it, but none of our receivers are as good as we would like to think. At least not yet, I have to think that they'll get there soon. And the O line has been bad for the most part, especially this season minus opening day. QBs don't [i]always[/i] make receivers. Receivers can make QBs too, so don't assume it always has to be one or the other. And I have to disagree that Fitz and Santonio were made by others. They make their QBs a whole lot more, especially Santonio and Sanchez. But in our case on monday night, receivers couldn't get open before the line leaks, making for a QB who has to scramble around and buy time, which Joe has done quite a lot of this year. And for the most part, he throws it away, which I think is a big reason for his low completion percentage. It's not like we have a superb supporting cast and he can't make it work out. They're affecing his play way more than he's affecting theirs.

[ball hawkin 20]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1319673322' post='840111']
Hate to say it, but none of our receivers are as good as we would like to think. At least not yet, I have to think that they'll get there soon. And the O line has been bad for the most part, especially this season minus opening day. QBs don't [i]always[/i] make receivers. Receivers can make QBs too, so don't assume it always has to be one or the other. And I have to disagree that Fitz and Santonio were made by others. They make their QBs a whole lot more, especially Santonio and Sanchez. But in our case on monday night, receivers couldn't get open before the line leaks, making for a QB who has to scramble around and buy time, which Joe has done quite a lot of this year. And for the most part, he throws it away, which I think is a big reason for his low completion percentage. It's not like we have a superb supporting cast and he can't make it work out. They're affecing his play way more than he's affecting theirs.
[/quote]

Been saying that ALL season long and i just get bashed

[redrum52]

Erratic, bad, inconsistent, you pick one. Usually we have to wait til the playoffs to start seeing performances this bad from the offense.

[The King]

For a long time I would say the problem was bad, or at least not consistently good, QB play for our offense. This was accentuated by the lack of a really great WR on our offense. However, the past few years there have been a couple consistent elements on the offense. One of them is Joe Flacco, and the other is Cam Cameron. I'm personally loath to put the blame on Flacco because I genuinely believe that he is a good QB and the numbers seem to bear me out, considering his constant improvement through the first three years of his career. I also don't think he's suddenly forgotten how to play the position and that he's actually a better QB than last year.

The other suspect element would be Cam Cameron, and as much as I don't want to turn this into another bash Cam thread, it's the only conclusion I can come to. The past few years it has seemed that our offense has underachieved no matter what changes we make or what new players we bring in.

I would definitely blame sloppy QB play since Testaverde left, though. It has not exactly been an All-Star list of quarterbacks for the Ravens between Vinny and Joe Cool.

[ball hawkin 20]

What's the curse of Vinny Testaverde? Never heard of it lol

[The Raven]

[quote name='ball hawkin 20' timestamp='1319678248' post='840261']
What's the curse of Vinny Testaverde? Never heard of it lol
[/quote]

Me neither actually.

[Ravenslifer]

Something people seem to conveniently forget: lots of new pieces with zero, let me repeat that, zero, offseason. Dickson, Pitta, and Boldin have been here 1 year, Smith and Doss since the lockout ended, Evans since August and he's injured so no chemistry build-up, Grubbs has been out, and we were starting LeVoir for awhile, pieces like Gurode and Leach are also new. It's not just Flacco, a lot of young quarterbacks are struggling (please do not mention Cam Newton, he has not played a single defense ranked in the top 15 this season).

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1319668172' post='839995']
That could explain the last 3 years, but not the last 14.
[/quote]
Good point

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='ball hawkin 20' timestamp='1319678248' post='840261']
What's the curse of Vinny Testaverde? Never heard of it lol
[/quote]

For the first two years of our franchise, Vinny was the QB. He put up stellar numbers but our defense was pretty bad back then. No matter how many points the offense scored, the defense couldn't hold the lead. Vinny was dumped at the end of the second year and we have't had a decent offense since then.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='ball hawkin 20' timestamp='1319678248' post='840261']
What's the curse of Vinny Testaverde? Never heard of it lol
[/quote]

me neither.

~Mili

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1319668813' post='840010']
Qb's make the receiver's (look at Fitz, Q now, Santonio, or look at the receivers Brady has made.). [b]That has always been a fact.[/b] We have given him everything else we can. RB's, FB's, Good Line's for the most part and he still cant get it done. It is his job to make the WR's look good.
[/quote]

It's your opinion, not a fact. You need a good QB to get the ball consistently to a WR, but QBs don't "make" WRs. By that logic, Culpepper made Moss and Stafford makes Megatron.

The NFL has become a passing league since Joe was drafted. I can't deny he has holes in his game but this has been the only year I'd say he has a diverse compliment of weapons in the passing game. And yet, when he isn't struggling, it's the o-line in pass protection.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Raven146' timestamp='1319666199' post='839934']
If i can find the article I will post it , where in an after game interview Cam agreed with Suggs and proceeded to state this team only has so many run plays there is only so much we can do. The running game is copied after Houston.
[/quote]

Of course there are only going to be so many running plays. That's the same with every play-book at any level of football.

Like [b]The Raven[/b] said, the plays Houston run in their ground game have been around for decades. Everyone mimics plays that work. Some attempt to expand and improve them.