MERGED: Offense Identity?

[ravensdfan]

We do not need an offensive identity. We do not need to be a run first team nor a pass first team. I hate that offensive identity crap. All we need is an OC that can adjust when one or the other is not working, come up with some creative plays here and there if none of it is working, make half-time adjustments, and trusts his 4th year QB to run a hurry up offense. That is all.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1319705438' post='840506']
[u][b]We do not need an offensive identity. We do not need to be a run first team nor a pass first team. I hate that offensive identity crap[/b][/u]. All we need is an OC that can adjust when one or the other is not working, come up with some creative plays here and there if none of it is working, make half-time adjustments, and trusts his 4th year QB to run a hurry up offense. That is all.
[/quote]

your point is very well taken. however, everything has an identity bruh!

it is simply what you think about when you hear a specific teams name. doesn't our defense have an identity? of course they do! but....what comes to your mind ("identity" wise) when you hear the Patriots, Colts, Saints or Packers names mention? you automatically think of their "identity" or what "type" of team they are because of how they are constructed personnel wise. to be a "run-first" team doesn't mean that the Ravens never pass regularly. that is absurd! it simply means that they cater to their strengths (running the ball) oppose to their weakness, which is obviously passing at this moment.

to me...the Ravens have the solid personnel to pound the rock and beat defenses into submission. when that is slowed or stalled, throw a few slants and screens, run a few draws here and there, utilize those "unbalanced" sets and the 2 TE packages and let Dickson and Pitta go to work in both the passing and running game, rotate Ricky and Allen in for Rice and definitely get Leach busting heads. let Torrey stretch the defense while Boldin, Doss and Williams work underneath. we have the personnel to make this happen and to be very effective i think.

~Mili

[Militant X 1]

“Let me put the quote in there that needs to be in there,” said Lewis, who sits next to Rice in the locker room. [u][i][b]“When Raymond runs we win. It opens up everything[/b][/i][/u]. It opens up [Anquan Boldin] ‘Q,’ it opens up everybody.”

there it is!!

~Mili

[CorvusCorax]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1319671446' post='840056']
Right now our identity is inconsistent.
[/quote]


Our identity IS inconsistency.

[RavenousBG]

Our identity is supposed to be moving to a versatile balanced team that can both pass and run. But it seems to keep falling out of balance and we end up passing too much and running ray rice too little.

I think the key starts with the Oline. We need to square that away. When Ben gets back things should be better.

[rlh445]

Oh, bah..identity. Let's identify ourselves as winners, and leave the rest up to the team.

[big hits and ball hawks]

We aren't a one dimensional offense, so why should we label ourselves with an identity that suggests that? We're a physical team that won't quite. We're relentless. If we give ourselves any identity it should be that.

In my opinion, we should game plan for the opponents' weakness and adjust when needed. Of course, we have to keep Rice involved, but he's versatile and can contribute in any game plan. We have a lot of weapons and ways to attack, I don't think that's a problem.

Even though the offense is inconsistent I still believe the O is capable of this.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='big hits and ball hawks' timestamp='1320479240' post='853048']
We aren't a one dimensional offense, so why should we label ourselves with an identity that suggests that? We're a physical team that won't quite. We're relentless. If we give ourselves any identity it should be that.

[size=5][b]In my opinion, we should game plan for the opponents' weakness and adjust when needed.[/b][/size] Of course, we have to keep Rice involved, but he's versatile and can contribute in any game plan. We have a lot of weapons and ways to attack, I don't think that's a problem.

Even though the offense is inconsistent I still believe the O is capable of this.
[/quote]

I definitely agree but the guy with the headset seemingly does not. It seems adjustments are barely ever made with our offense with the exception probably being the second half Cardinals game when we were three scores down after playing 6 quarters of putrid offense.

[CalvinSmoke]

Everyone said that our receivers weren't open, but Q got on Flacco for thinking that way, "in this league, if someones on me...I'm open" A little trust in his receivers will solve all of those problems.

[usmccharles]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1320502153' post='853105']Everyone said that our receivers weren't open, but Q got on Flacco for thinking that way, "in this league, if someones on me...I'm open" A little trust in his receivers will solve all of those problems.[/quote] Not disagreeing with you at all, but every WR thinks they are open, every WR wants the ball. If a WR said he wasnt open is like him admitting he cant do his job to a level of acceptable performance because he cant get seperation. So of course hes gonna say hes open, but nonetheless, i agree. Sometimes you just have to give the WR a chance to make the play.


[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1320488859' post='853063'] I definitely agree but the guy with the headset seemingly does not. It seems adjustments are barely ever made with our offense with the exception probably being the second half Cardinals game when we were three scores down after playing 6 quarters of putrid offense.[/quote]

Maybe its just me not paying attention, but it seems that either we blow teams out or completely fall apart. And altough it didnt look like we blew the cardinals out, our second half was dominating. Ive heard someone on here, well read, say that we play down to the competition and they got blasted for it. Well i agree, look how we played against the two 1 win teams we played and our loss to the titans.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='big hits and ball hawks' timestamp='1320479240' post='853048']
We aren't a one dimensional offense, [u][b]so why should we label ourselves with an identity that suggests that?[/b][/u] We're a physical team that won't quite. We're relentless. If we give ourselves any identity it should be that.

In my opinion, we should game plan for the opponents' weakness and adjust when needed. Of course, we have to keep Rice involved, but he's versatile and can contribute in any game plan. We have a lot of weapons and ways to attack, I don't think that's a problem.

Even though the offense is inconsistent I still believe the O is capable of this.
[/quote]

having an "identity" doesn't mean that you are one dimensional bruh! it simply means that you cater to your personnel strengths. if you have solid running personnel (which the Ravens do), you may be considered to be a "run-first" team. that DOESN'T mean that you don't pass when the opportunity presents itself. and...if you have solid WRs that are fast, can catch, run routes to precision, take the top off of the defense etc, you maybe considered a "pass-first" team. again, that DOESN'T mean that you don't run the ball when the opportunity presents itself. as i mentioned earlier, "identity" to me...is catering to your base personnel.

~Mili

[PurpleCorsair]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1320537620' post='853476']

having an "identity" doesn't mean that you are one dimensional bruh! it simply means that you cater to your personnel strengths. if you have solid running personnel (which the Ravens do), you may be considered to be a "run-first" team. that DOESN'T mean that you don't pass when the opportunity presents itself. and...if you have solid WRs that are fast, can catch, run routes to precision, take the top off of the defense etc, you maybe considered a "pass-first" team. again, that DOESN'T mean that you don't run the ball when the opportunity presents itself. as i mentioned earlier, "identity" to me...is catering to your base personnel.

~Mili
[/quote]

Catering to your base personnel suggest utilizing them more than other personnel, I.E running more than not.

[lgcs27288]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1319670861' post='840045']
The offenses identity is to do what doesnt work against that team and hope it works. Cam cant coordinate [profanity deleted] and Flacco cant read Dr Seuss let alone a defense. Never see them reviewing plays on the sideline or trying to figure out whats wrong. We have a better chance with Ray Rice calling the offence and praying for the best.
[/quote]

Those Dr. Seuss books are pretty clever if you start thinking about them!

[big hits and ball hawks]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1320537620' post='853476']

having an "identity" doesn't mean that you are one dimensional bruh! it simply means that you cater to your personnel strengths. if you have solid running personnel (which the Ravens do), you may be considered to be a "run-first" team. that DOESN'T mean that you don't pass when the opportunity presents itself. and...if you have solid WRs that are fast, can catch, run routes to precision, take the top off of the defense etc, you maybe considered a "pass-first" team. again, that DOESN'T mean that you don't run the ball when the opportunity presents itself. as i mentioned earlier, "identity" to me...is catering to your base personnel.

~Mili
[/quote]

I get what you're saying. Let me clarify the whole "identity/one dimensional" thing, I said that it suggests that not that it meant that. For years, or forever really, we've been known as a smash mouth run first team that was successful at it. I don't think there's anything wrong with us being great at running the ball, but now we have a pass offense that we've never really had. I believe we can beat a team being pass happy one week and beat another team being the run first smash mouth team we're more used to seeing the next week. It all just depends on the team we're playing. Of course, I don't think we should ever abandon the run in pass happy games or the pass in run first games. We're still going to be a physical team no matter what.

We just don't perceive the whole "identity" thing the same way. I'm fine with that and I respect your opinion.

[Greatness]

Adjustments win football games, too. We need to consistently learn to make adjustments as they'll help us win games as well.

[Bottom_Line5220]

Joe needs a big game in the national spot light to get the media off his back

[Greatness]

[quote name='Bottom_Line5220' timestamp='1320572851' post='853623']
Joe needs a big game in the national spot light to get the media off his back
[/quote]

Joe needs a decent game to get us the W. The sheep will come as the W's stack up. Don't let him win the Superbowl...he'll be in convo's with Montana according to the ESPN joke of a rating, "clutch". lulz

[Tank 92]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1319674209' post='840146']

You can't look at one, single play to make a judgement about an entire game. Thats rediculous. When the OL did provide protection, Flacco had nowhere to throw to. Nowhere. Also, Leach is in to block. Thats his job as a FB. Even if he gets sent into motion, he still blocks on the play, contrary to what you're suggesting. Also, it doesn't matter if the defense knows the play! If the play is executed correctly, it will work! I can say that from personal experience!

Because he's a change of pace back. He gives Rice a breather He provides a different running style than Ray. He's a smasher back. Also, if he's so [u][i]"done"[/i][/u] than why is he and Rice's average identical? They both have a 4.4 YPC average. Hmm...

Yeah, cuz that totally worked. We won the superbowl with a bunch of checkdowns. Nope. We didn't. Our offense was anemic last year, especially in the playoffs. They shut down the dump offs in the playoffs last year.
[/quote]


Stating the obvious, the key to offensive success is directly related to the play of the O line, whether it be the run or the pass. And, you have to keep the D off balance. Using Vonta on a pass play here and there keeps the D honest, gives them something else to think about. Good move to get him involved in the pass.

I don't know in what league you have "personal experience", but in the NFL, if the D knows the play you are about to run, it will be stopped most of the time no matter how well you execute. Coaches work day and night to make sure they are not predictable. Having a good balance of successful run and pass gives both a better chance of being consistently effective. We've got to keep em' guessing!

I totally agree that Ricky is far from "done" and he provides a quality break for RR. And with his style of running and pass catching, he provides another facet of [b][i]unpredictability.[/i][/b]

We did not lose in the playoffs last year because "They shut down the dump offs". We lost because we forgot there were two halves to a football game. I don't know how to explain the comedy of errors that unfolded; RR fumbling, Matt B. hiking the ball into his thigh instead of Joe's hands, Boldin and Housh flat out dropping key passes, etc., etc., etc.. The lack of execution in the second half of the stealers game was baffling.


To be successful, I think our offensive identity needs to be that we don't have a predictable identity. We are not going to go vertical and dominate a game. Nor are we going to pound the opposition with the run to dominate. We just don't have the personnel to rely solely on either. But we do have the personnel to be consistently good with both. And an [u][i][b]unpredictable[/b][/i][/u] mix will bring consistent success on offense.

[ravensdfan]

All we need as far as offense is "balance and ability to adjust". Period. I think we have all the pieces to be able to run the ball down their throats and pass the ball if they stack the box. Yes we've been inconsistent on O. Cam, for all that's holy, just let Joe go. He will save your job for you I promise. Our biggest weakness is Cam's control freak ways. Let's hope something was learned vs the Cards.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='big hits and ball hawks' timestamp='1320562291' post='853611']

I get what you're saying. Let me clarify the whole "identity/one dimensional" thing, I said that it suggests that not that it meant that. For years, or forever really, we've been known as a smash mouth run first team that was successful at it. I don't think there's anything wrong with us being great at running the ball, but now we have a pass offense that we've never really had. I believe we can beat a team being pass happy one week and beat another team being the run first smash mouth team we're more used to seeing the next week. It all just depends on the team we're playing. Of course, I don't think we should ever abandon the run in pass happy games or the pass in run first games. We're still going to be a physical team no matter what.

[b]We just don't perceive the whole "identity" thing the same way. I'm fine with that and I respect your opinion[/b].
[/quote]

of course we don't and that's cool bruh!

~Mili

[ravens world]

i think u pass first and set up the run with the pass ..

[Ravens Fan in Ontario]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1319670459' post='840038']
What we lack is urgency or the ability to adjust according to the defense you're facing.

Don't see anything related to identity in that.

For example if we are supposed to be a run first team, and are facing a team that is stout against the run, but can be torched in the secondary, anyone with common sense is going after that secondary. You might be a smash mouth football team, but if the run isn't working or vice versa, you have to adjust accordingly.
[/quote]

Near correct assumption. This assumption means that you HAVE TRIED to run the ball and were not successful. 5 attempts is not trying to run the ball. When you rush 5 times for 27 yards (Over 5YPC) then you are running pretty well.

A 12 point deficit to start the second half is NOT a reason to abandon the run altogether. 1 touch from #27 is all it takes to put you right back in the game. (refer to the very first play of the Steelers game - 76 yard TD run by Rice. Ok negated by a seriously questionable holding call) however the point is still valid. 1 touch=1TD for 76 yds. Only a FOOL OC would abandon the run with Rice in the backfield when you're only down 12 points.

[BenDufusberger]

[quote name='ravens world' timestamp='1320616767' post='853956']
i think u pass first and set up the run with the pass ..
[/quote]

So , after setting it up , when were we planning to break out the run in Seattle --- in the 6th quarter ?

[Clutch Ravens]

Offensive Identity: Inconsistency.

Our offense, from Cam to the o-line, is the definition of inconsistency. One game Flacco's great, the next he's bad/awful. One game our o-line's solid, the next it sucks. One game our receivers are making excellent catches, the next they couldn't catch a hold. Ray Rice isn't even consistent, but that's mostly to do with him not getting the touches he needs.

[Alexir]

Flacco's comments the other day how rice is just frustrated he didn't get his "stamp on the game" is complete b.s. Rice, IMO, cares about winning. Flacco said that he would be upset too if he only threw the ball 10 times and the run game went off. Well in that case it would mean we are winning! In no way should we have gave up on the run and in no way should we put the game in Flaccos hands like that. 52 times! and he thinks rice is upset just because he wasn't involved more. It was the run game not being there, it was frustration of horrible play callilng. Flacco even said with attitude "did you watch the game?" like we needed to pass. ugh.

Down 7-19 with plenty of time and you are gonna tell me that passing the ball is the only option. If he doesn't audible out of that run play, that ball doesn't get intercepted. He realistically should of had 2 more picks but seattle screwed that up.

My point being we need to run the ball a lot more than we pass. Ray Rice is our best offensive weapon and always will be as long as he's healthy and wearing purple.

[Alexir]

[quote name='BenDufusberger' timestamp='1321556360' post='874494']

So , after setting it up , when were we planning to break out the run in Seattle --- in the 6th quarter ?
[/quote]

I know right. Flacco isn't Aaron or Tom. HIs accuracy isn't there to march a team down the field with just passes.

[ravens world]

[quote name='BenDufusberger' timestamp='1321556360' post='874494']

So , after setting it up , when were we planning to break out the run in Seattle --- in the 6th quarter ?
[/quote]

well honestly the run game is not that effective so if neither is working what do u do ? Got to pass !