Has Joe Hit The Ceiling?

[Blex64]

[quote name='DanisRavens' timestamp='1319595510' post='838710']
I knew it from day 1. Nothing about this guy says "I am a winner", nothing about this guy is inspiring. Seriously put 2 pictures side by side, 1 of ben, 1 of flacco - night and day - thoughness and weakness - winner and big time loser - Leader and spectator - I cannot stand the sight of the Steelers, I luv Ray and Reed to death, but Flacco is a shame, I am embarrassed. Lets not even talk about the offensive line.

Funny but sad thing, I asked my co-workers to watch the game, basically told them if they miss the game, they would miss seeing the greatest team on earth in action. Well...I almost didnt show up for work today.

Walk of shame...
[/quote]

[i]<Deleted>[/i]

On topic:

Joe has not hit the ceiling. This is about 99% Cameron.

Joe has regressed significantly this season...now that Saunders and Zorn are gone, something everyone was concerned about when this happened. Remember peoples' reactions when it was announced Cameron was going to be working more closely with Flacco? Looks like our concerns were right. Cam is a heaping pile of garbage and needs to go. Its a shame we can't promote Saunders anymore, but something needs to be done.

Also, is anyone sick and tired of seeing Leach running routes? Its Cams new Stallworth Reverse, and its ridiculous. Put Doss in the 3rd WR slot and leave Leach in to block on passing downs. Its not going to fool anyone if you do it 3 times a game, and if its not fooling someone its a worthless play.

[ball hawkin 20]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1319598757' post='838786']
You will be back on the "Joe Must Go" bus before long-I'll hold your seat for you!
[/quote]

Haha we'll see after week 9

[Blex64]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1319598526' post='838780']
I agree with most of what you said-true leaders make everyone around them better-I didn't see anyone rallying around Joe. In fact if anything I saw the opposite-guys shaking their heads, Boldin throwing the ball in the air, guys milling around during the two minute drill with Flacco not trying to hurry anybody up. I think he is starting to polarize this team-some guys are obviously getting frustrated.
[/quote]

Flacco was just as frustrated as Boldin was, he was sitting around waiting for Cam to give him the playcall and was clearly pissed aobut it.

Flacco had the most control over the Offense in the Rams game...and he was Air Player of the Week and led the league in Total QBR. I don't think that's a coincidence. Give the man a chance away from Cameron. The Chargers gave up on Drew Brees at around this point and look what happened. Its not the player, its the coach.

[wizard1]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1319598863' post='838790']

[i]<Deleted>[/i]

On topic:

Joe has not hit the ceiling. This is about 99% Cameron.

Joe has regressed significantly this season...now that Saunders and Zorn are gone, something everyone was concerned about when this happened. Remember peoples' reactions when it was announced Cameron was going to be working more closely with Flacco? Looks like our concerns were right. Cam is a heaping pile of garbage and needs to go. Its a shame we can't promote Saunders anymore, but something needs to be done.

Also, is anyone sick and tired of seeing Leach running routes? Its Cams new Stallworth Reverse, and its ridiculous. Put Doss in the 3rd WR slot and leave Leach in to block on passing downs. Its not going to fool anyone if you do it 3 times a game, and if its not fooling someone its a worthless play.
[/quote]
Even tho I do agree with your assessment of Cam-in fairness Cam isn't out on the field - and when that ball is snapped Joe is in control and he was pathetic.. Honestly Joe looked like Moe, Curly and Larry with a little Jerry Lewis thrown in there.I laughed out loud at the pass he completed to himself. His strolling around during the 2 minute drill is unforgivable. Did you notice any of his teammates rallying around him? Neither did I. Don't be afraid to hop on the "Joe Must Go" bus-can anything be worse than last night?

[wizard1]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1319599203' post='838800']

Flacco was just as frustrated as Boldin was, he was sitting around waiting for Cam to give him the playcall and was clearly pissed aobut it.

Flacco had the most control over the Offense in the Rams game...and he was Air Player of the Week and led the league in Total QBR. I don't think that's a coincidence. Give the man a chance away from Cameron. The Chargers gave up on Drew Brees at around this point and look what happened. Its not the player, its the coach.
[/quote]
Just one more question-exactly how many chances are we supposed to give the guy-how much time does he need-this is sorta becoming the twilight zone because I swear we went through the same thing with Boller. Those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it!

[wizard1]

[quote name='ball hawkin 20' timestamp='1319598885' post='838792']

Haha we'll see after week 9
[/quote]
Wait a sec hawkin 20 we still gotta figure a way to get past the Cards with Jerry Lewis er I mean Joe Flacco.

[Blex64]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1319599822' post='838818']
Just one more question-exactly how many chances are we supposed to give the guy-how much time does he need-this is sorta becoming the twilight zone because I swear we went through the same thing with Boller. Those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it!
[/quote]

Kyle Boller's first 3 seasons:
2005 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 9 9 171 293 58.4 1,799 6.1 11 12 23 146 71.8 23 66 2.9 1 8 2 2004 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 16 16 258 464 55.6 2,559 5.5 13 11 35 247 70.9 53 189 3.6 1 11 7 2003 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 11 9 116 224 51.8 1,260 5.6 7 9 17 92 62.4 30 62 2.1 0 9 5

Joe Flacco's first 3 seasons:
2010 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 16 489 306 62.6 30.6 3,622 7.4 226.4 25 5.1 10 2.0 67 40 7 40 294 93.6 2009 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 16 499 315 63.1 31.2 3,613 7.2 225.8 21 4.2 12 2.4 72T 44 8 36 218 88.9 2008 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 16 428 257 60.0 26.8 2,971 6.9 185.7 14 3.3 12 2.8 70T 37 10 32 276 80.3 TOTAL 54 1,627 988 60.7 30.1 11,621 7.1 215.2 68 4.2 39 2.4 74 138 30 121 863 86.4

[i]<deleted>[/i]

[wizard1]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1319600184' post='838827']

Kyle Boller's first 3 seasons:
2005 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 9 9 171 293 58.4 1,799 6.1 11 12 23 146 71.8 23 66 2.9 1 8 2 2004 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 16 16 258 464 55.6 2,559 5.5 13 11 35 247 70.9 53 189 3.6 1 11 7 2003 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 11 9 116 224 51.8 1,260 5.6 7 9 17 92 62.4 30 62 2.1 0 9 5

Joe Flacco's first 3 seasons:
2010 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 16 489 306 62.6 30.6 3,622 7.4 226.4 25 5.1 10 2.0 67 40 7 40 294 93.6 2009 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 16 499 315 63.1 31.2 3,613 7.2 225.8 21 4.2 12 2.4 72T 44 8 36 218 88.9 2008 [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL"]Baltimore Ravens[/url] 16 428 257 60.0 26.8 2,971 6.9 185.7 14 3.3 12 2.8 70T 37 10 32 276 80.3 TOTAL 54 1,627 988 60.7 30.1 11,621 7.1 215.2 68 4.2 39 2.4 74 138 30 121 863 86.4

Go away.
[/quote]
I will joust with you no longer [i]<deleted>.[/i]

[redlobster]

My question is, how long do you give a guy to show real progress? 4 years is enough. Remember this is the same guy that couldn't even pass Tyler Palko on the university of Pittsburgh depth chart. I think us Baltimore fans are so used to garbage play from the qb that even mediocre sometimes is enough. What has he shown that any other mediocre qb couldn't do with a dominant defense?

After saying that , there isn't much of an alternative this season though. At the same time I would 100% support Cam Cameron no longer being apart of the team.

[wizard1]

[quote name='redlobster' timestamp='1319600379' post='838834']
My question is, how long do you give a guy to show real progress? 4 years is enough. Remember this is the same guy that couldn't even pass Tyler Palko on the university of Pittsburgh depth chart. I think us Baltimore fans are so used to garbage play from the qb that even mediocre sometimes is enough. What has he shown that any other mediocre qb couldn't do with a dominant defense?

After saying that , there isn't much of an alternative this season though. At the same time I would 100% support Cam Cameron no longer being apart of the team.
[/quote]

Good post here-I agree 100%

[wizard1]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1319601177' post='838847']

Good post here-I agree 100%
[/quote]
But I don't agree there is nothing we can do. 4 quarterbacks got benched last week in favor of virtual rookies in some cases. I think we can do no worse-if fact it may even rally the team!

[BloodRaven]

I'd say based on the numbers he probably hit it last year.

[counts52]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1319599593' post='838810']
Even tho I do agree with your assessment of Cam-in fairness Cam isn't out on the field - and when that ball is snapped Joe is in control and he was pathetic.. Honestly Joe looked like Moe, Curly and Larry with a little Jerry Lewis thrown in there.[b]I laughed out loud at the pass he completed to himself.[/b] His strolling around during the 2 minute drill is unforgivable. Did you notice any of his teammates rallying around him? Neither did I. Don't be afraid to hop on the "Joe Must Go" bus-can anything be worse than last night?
[/quote]
I dont care if the mods yell but what ravens fan actually finds that funny. I couldnt do anything that slightly represented anything other than fury during that entire game. Even if I hated flacco and couldnt wait to see him leave there is no way that I am laughing about anything at that point of the game.

[wizard1]

[quote name='counts52' timestamp='1319602382' post='838872']
I dont care if the mods yell but what ravens fan actually finds that funny. I couldnt do anything that slightly represented anything other than fury during that entire game. Even if I hated flacco and couldnt wait to see him leave there is no way that I am laughing about anything at that point of the game.
[/quote]
Sorry if that bothered you-it just stuck me as some well needed comical relief in the midst of such a tragedy.If a wasn't a purple n black bleeding fool I wouldn't be saying this about Flacco but I've had enough and I'm not gonna take this mediocrity anymore!

[counts52]

Ive come to accept the fact that the flacco discussion is basically politics. In other words flacco supports vs. flacco haters = repubicans vs democrats (or vice versa not trying to compare the parties). If flacco plays great haters attribute it to ray rice, cams calls, and can still pick things wrong with him. If he plays horrible supporters are gonna blame cam, the oline, and inability to run the ball. That being said last nights performance was the worst thing ive seen on a football field in a while. I am just beyond arguing this never ending discussion.

[757RavensFan]

Look on the bright side, if his play doesn't change for the better, his new contract won't break us.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1319627708' post='839006']
Look on the bright side, if his play doesn't change for the better, his new contract won't break us.
[/quote]

... or he won't get a new contract at all. At this point, he's going to have to play out his Rookie deal.

[jimmypowder]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1319630375' post='839014']

... or he won't get a new contract at all. At this point, he's going to have to play out his Rookie deal.
[/quote]
I would think that Ozzie will hold off on giving him a long term contract at this point and wait till
the season ends to make a decision.

Ozzie's comments after last year's brutal Steelers loss in the playoffs wasn't exactly a ringing
endorsement of Joe's play.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1319602774' post='838881']
Sorry if that bothered you-it just stuck me as some well needed comical relief in the midst of such a tragedy.If a wasn't a purple n black bleeding fool I wouldn't be saying this about Flacco but I've had enough and [b]I'm not gonna take this mediocrity anymore![/b]
[/quote]

Um...you'll take whatever the Ravens put on the field, unless you want to find another team to root for. Stop acting like a spoiled brat.

[Tatelli]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1319637022' post='839106']

Um...you'll take whatever the Ravens put on the field, unless you want to find another team to root for. Stop acting like a spoiled brat.
[/quote]
WOW!!! Where have I heard something similar to that....Hmmmm....That's right Harbs said something like that in an interview. "If you don't like it find another team to root for" funny!

[Renediffie]

[quote name='stormie' timestamp='1319567376' post='837584']
[url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/5536/ben-roethlisberger"][color=#225fb2]Ben Roethlisberger[/color][/url] - Years of experience = 8
(Per ESPN)


[url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11252/joe-flacco"][color=#225fb2]Joe Flacco[/color][/url] - Years of experience = 4
(Per ESPN)

Why do people keep forgetting this?
[/quote]

And you honestly think that Joe is looking as good as Ben did in his fourth year?

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='Renediffie' timestamp='1319656304' post='839647']

And you honestly think that Joe is looking as good as Ben did in his fourth year?
[/quote]

Ben only threw for 3,000 yards in his 4th year. People forget but until 2009 ben was not a big part of that offense.

[Renediffie]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1319656722' post='839660']

Ben only threw for 3,000 yards in his 4th year. People forget but until 2009 ben was not a big part of that offense.
[/quote]

I would take that any day over Flacco. Yes he only threw for 3000 yards but he did so with a very high completion rate, 32td's vs 11int's and he knew how to finish games. Flacco have looked absolutely horrid in half the games he played so far this season.

[ravens rule]

Short NFL.com video talking about Joe's future with us [url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8237ad4d/Hot-seat-for-Flacco?module=HP11_hot_topics"]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8237ad4d/Hot-seat-for-Flacco?module=HP11_hot_topics[/url]

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='jimmypowder' timestamp='1319558757' post='837115']
Have we seen the best Joe can do?

Has he hit the ceiling in terms of ability?

If this is the best he can give us,I think it really is time
to look elsewhere.I have been a Flacco defender many times
in this forum but I just cant defend him anymore.

I know the O-line stinks but so does Big Ben's along with other
QB's.

Is it time next year to put out feelers for a replacement?
[/quote]
More like a wall.

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='Sunday QB' timestamp='1319561239' post='837266']



[size=4][font=comic sans ms,cursive]Look at Phillip Rivers and Drew Brees, under Cam you didn't know who they were. It wasn't until they got out from under Cam that they became elite QB's. I see the same thing happening to Joe. Until Cam is gone or Joe leaves I don't see him getting any better or given any respect. [/font][/size]
[/quote]

I actually can't argue this point. It's a great point. I haven't heard or seen it before. If Flacco ends up playing well once Cam is gone at the end of the season... it will really be a shame that the Ravens wasted the last 2 years still trying to make the Cam-Flacco combination work.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

With Cam here, yes. If Cam is fired sometime soon and we find a good replacement then I think Flacco can continue to grow and work out some of the flaws in his game such as his inability to beat the cover 2 or throw receivers open.

[CorvusCorax]

Sometimes I wonder if it would help Joe to wear the helmet [b]WITHOUT THE GREEN DOT[/b] on it.

[Romo Ravens]

I think we saw his best last season. He can only get worst

[ball hawkin 20]

off topic - anyone know who practiced today? injury report isn't updated