Cam Or Flacco, Who Is The Bigger Problem Going Forward?

[ratedr]

I don't trust Flacco AT ALL, right now, but I still have to put this one on Cam.

This is a team with a top 8 pass D (without their top CB, who they got back tonight) and a bottom 5 rush D, so you decide...to throw it 38 times? It's incomprehensible.

Flacco has been VERY disappointing so far, though. Did Jim Zorn leaving impact his play that much? It's maddening.

[Trilogique]

Cam without a doubt.

[Ravenslifer]

It's by far Cam. You can change your quarterback 12 times in the same game, but if all 12 guys are operating in the same terrible system, it will be hard for them to have success. Cam needs to stop acting like every game is a showcase for how great Joe Flacco and the passing offense have gotten, and start to remember that Ray rice is the best playmaker on offense, and that we can run the ball effectively on teams if we try.

[Guest RBates]

Im undecided since there is no both button. Flacco looks like a scared kid out there. He makes me so mad with the lack of urgency and fire i get from his body language on the field. Talk to your players, be a leader. Should we be saying this in year 4

[Blex64]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1319523576' post='836169']
Im undecided since there is no both button. Flacco looks like a scared kid out there. He makes me so mad with the lack of urgency and fire i get from his body language on the field. Talk to your players, be a leader. Should we be saying this in year 4
[/quote]

The lack of urgency while he waits for cam to dial up a play because he's not allowed to call them himself?

K.

[tsale4506]

PA IS our passing game. Can't sell the run when our starting PRO BOWL RB only gets 8 carries....you tell me, who screwed up this game. By the way, I love Billy for sure, but Scobee made him look like .... in FG's. Don't come at me with the 'box is stacked" arguement either. Seemed to work more last year when we didn't have any deep receivers. HORRIBLE play calling, even if offense players played like dirt. Can we get someone who calls plays to our strengths?

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

Both can kick rocks to be honest. Cam is a horrible coordinator and Joe has hit his ceiling imo. He's a game manager and game managers don't win you championships. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the Joe experiment end and the Cam experiment should of been over.

And to be frankly honest, Harbaugh can kick rocks too.

[Blex64]

[quote name='EnVy_CaLiBeR' timestamp='1319523875' post='836182']
Both can kick rocks to be honest. Cam is a horrible coordinator and Joe has hit his ceiling imo. He's a game manager and game managers don't win you championships in today's NFL. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the Joe experiment end and the Cam experiment should of been over.

And to be frankly honest, Harbaugh can kick rocks too.
[/quote]

One game and we go from a super bowl team to a rebuilding year where everyone needs to be fired?

Glad were all rational, was worried for a second!

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1319524027' post='836186']
One game and we go from a super bowl team to a rebuilding year where everyone needs to be fired?

Glad were all rational, was worried for a second!
[/quote]
I've never crowned us a Super Bowl team so that's irrelevant to me.

Ok, I was speaking out of anger on the Harbaugh thing even though he has had questionable calls as a coach but I'm standing by my first paragraph. Cam needs to go and I wouldn't be surprised to see Flacco not too far behind him.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1319524027' post='836186']
One game and we go from a super bowl team to a rebuilding year where everyone needs to be fired?

Glad were all rational, was worried for a second!
[/quote]

We just lost to the Blaine Gabbert led Jaguars on Monday night. Nobody's rational right now. I don't feel entirely sober, and I haven't even been drinking.

[ratedr]

Harbaugh wasn't smart at the end either, decided to go for the onside kick. TERRIBLE decision.

[EricV703]

It's a combination of Flacco, crappy coaching, Cam Cameron, Offensive Line, Receivers not getting open due to poor coaching, poor coaching, poor coaching, oh and might as well throw in Bisciotti as well for not firing Cam Cameron last season

[MagicianCamille]

Cam Cameron. Ray Rice is our best guy on offense, need to get him the ball more.

[EternalRavensDefense]

Cam Cameron. There is a reason why both Drew Brees and Rivers had more success once they were away from Cam. Unfortunaly for Rivers, it look like he has become infected by Norv Turner's playcalling and attitude and fallen off a cliff.

[Conrad The Crazed]

Cameron is our cancer. Vanilla playbook, shades of Matt Cavanaugh. The offense is poorly coached (not sure if that too is on Cameron, or Harbaugh himself), and no one is stepping up to lead. The O-line has been average the last few seasons, and this year its tail-spinning, with two first round picks and two pro-bowler veterans (or is it three). Again, poor coaching.

Not a single adjustment to a determined, scrappy defense. Nope, we're gonna show you how awesome our 'new look' offense is, by golly. Seriously, why have Leach and Williams on the roster if they're just going to spectate most of the game?

There is no excuse for the loss last night. None. You don't lose to a team in rebuild mode on MNF, with 5 division games still left on the schedule in a division where no one is under .500. Cameron has got to go. It's time to let Ray Lewis run the offense. Seriously.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='EnVy_CaLiBeR' timestamp='1319523875' post='836182']
Both can kick rocks to be honest. Cam is a horrible coordinator and Joe has hit his ceiling imo. He's a game manager and game managers don't win you championships in today's NFL. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the Joe experiment end and the Cam experiment should of been over.

And to be frankly honest, Harbaugh can kick rocks too.
[/quote]

Um. That's because that is all Cam will ever allow him to be. He will not relinquish control. I would think after that hurry up offense display last night that would have been obvious. He didn't even call more than one play at a time and send it in. Cam must go.

[keebl3rs]

[quote name='Conrad The Crazed' timestamp='1319537337' post='836352']
Cameron is our cancer. Vanilla playbook, shades of Matt Cavanaugh. The offense is poorly coached (not sure if that too is on Cameron, or Harbaugh himself), and no one is stepping up to lead. The O-line has been average the last few seasons, and this year its tail-spinning, with two first round picks and two pro-bowler veterans (or is it three). Again, poor coaching.

Not a single adjustment to a determined, scrappy defense. Nope, we're gonna show you how awesome our 'new look' offense is, by golly. Seriously, why have Leach and Williams on the roster if they're just going to spectate most of the game?

There is no excuse for the loss last night. None. You don't lose to a team in rebuild mode on MNF, with 5 division games still left on the schedule in a division where no one is under .500. Cameron has got to go. It's time to let Ray Lewis run the offense. Seriously.
[/quote]

Agreed.

On a side note, I couldn't help but laugh whenever the Jags 4 man rush got through our line.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

How Cam Cameron still has his job is a question I want answered. It's time for Harbs and Bisciotti to kick him out before he ruins another year for us.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' timestamp='1319530569' post='836314']
Cam Cameron. Ray Rice is our best guy on offense, need to get him the ball more.
[/quote]

You know, I had said after Rice's fumbles that they needed to bring him to sidelines for a play or two. Talk to him, calm him down, see what's going on. What do they do? Put him in the dunce corner. What???? I felt so horrible for him. He looked so defeated sitting there by himself. That is poor coaching right there and I have to imagine that was a Harbaugh decision.

[SuRihtanil]

Ray Rice for one needed more carries... when your QB is playing like Kyle Boller give it to your all pro RB. The thing I look at is the calls were there at times were Joe Flacco could have made a 1st down. He held on to the ball to long or he threw to areas no one was open, when I seen a guy running free at times. I blame both Cam and Flacco, but last night it proved Flacco isn't near elite and he will never carry this team through tough times like say, Ben.

[JMONET23]

Cam Cameron is the problem. He doesn't know how to adjust. He need to let Flacco play his game because he isn't a in the Pocket quarterback yiu could clearly see that in his 1st and 2nd year here. Flacco likes to run in order to get yards. My message to Flacco is to play your game and if Cam Cameron doesn't like it oh well because he isn't the head coach and doesnt need to be any type of coach. To the owner please eliminate the problem (Cam Cameron). He needs a pink slip in his hand today do twang tothe end of the year. As fans we want a super bowl and with him coaching like he did last night that will never happen. John Harbaugh take charge as the head coach so we can win games to teams that have one win. Please beat the steelers in two weeks.

[JO_75]

All the proof you need that it's cam and not Joe, is the fact Ray Rice only got the ball 8 times last night. Of course Joe is going to have a bad night when he throws so many times after everyone saw and knew it wasn't working. Rice should have gotten the ball more, I know our o-line is bad but they kept running it to the left where that is the weakest part of the line. Cam should have started running Rice to the right where Yanda and Oher are our strongest part of the line. Cam Needs to go, Flacco is our Franchise QB and now he is being wasted by Cam's horrible play calling.

[Claire]

Well, let's see if you replaced Flacco with Brady and still had Cam... how might it change things? If you replaced Cam with the best offensive coordinator in the world, and kept Flacco, how might things change?

Is Cam great and his play calling is being ruined by Flacco's performance? Or is Flacco great and his performance is being ruined by Cam's play calling?

[Tatelli]

Last night during the game did anybody else take notice to the camera shot that was put on Cam and his play calling sheet? I've said this before and maybe I'm wrong on saying it now, but IMO Cam tends to make thing's much more difficult than they need to be. Just one side of that sheet was crazy full ......What I'm thinking is that it also included direction on how to get back to Baltimore using Back streets if the "O" has a poor game.
We have a Oline that is having issues, we have rookie receivers, we have Q, we have a great back.......we have a QB that has problems making quick reads on defences......What is wrong with the KISS method here?? There is a major problem here and once again it is just not this years problems it goes years back....Is it Joe or is it Cam...hmmmm. My thought is Cam is way to deep for this team.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Claire' timestamp='1319560403' post='837215']
Well, let's see if you replaced Flacco with Brady and still had Cam... how might it change things? If you replaced Cam with the best offensive coordinator in the world, and kept Flacco, how might things change?

Is Cam great and his play calling is being ruined by Flacco's performance? Or is Flacco great and his performance is being ruined by Cam's play calling?
[/quote]

Pretty sure that if you replaced Flacco with Brady, no matter how much he got fined Brady would rip the mike out of his ear and start calling his own plays.

As a follow-up to that, I'd love to see this happen in the next game at Arizona: Flacco throws 2 picks and is sacked 4 times in the first half. He comes out in the second half and on the first play gets sacked. Then he gets mad, rips his helmet off, pulls out the mike and stomps on it. He calls the line together and proceeds to call no huddle the rest of the drive. Cam and John are furious, but then Joe drives us down the field and scores. John lets Joe keep audibling, and Joe proceeds to throw for 3 more TD passes. After the game, Cam is fired and replaced by whoever holds the world record in Madden.

[MiaKingZ305]

Without a doubt, Joe Flacco is a NFL QB. But, Flacco's demeanor is too icy and frozen just like Coach Cameron (Conservative). We need intensity and fire from them both, cause if they aren't screaming and cursing like Ray and Suggs, I think Flacco and Cam aren't in the game mentally, and that's why our offense isn't showing up like our defense every game.

[Claire]

I'd settle for seeing Joe on the sidelines talking it up with the offense and getting them fired up. I think they would be very excited to follow Joe's lead. I have seen many qbs doing this. Telling the guys they are still in the game, telling them they would win the game even if they are being pummeled, and just pumping them up.

I think if Joe did this the offense would rise to the occasion. I do think the offense wants him as their leader.

[Jabara]

It's kinda a lose-lose situation...
The offense imploded. When you have Rice, pissed off from being benched, and Flacco seemingly upset with having to deal with Cam, you are going to lose.
Who wants to be out there playing when you're being held back?
I've liked some of Cam's play calling this season, but he still needs to go.

[edreedfromtheu]

The bigger problem?

Cam can't really get any better if Flacco doesn't get better. (unless you just want the team to run the ball every single time?

Flacco... he pretty much affects how the coordinator looks(and what plays he can call), the offensive line, the running backs, and the receivers.

I'd say Flacco is definitely the bigger problem going forward.

Oh, want to complicate things more? His contract is up, and if the Ravens don't want to pay him... many fans will be going insane. If they do extend him, they'll probably overpay with no guarantee it's going to get any better. I'm not sure I want to mortgage the future of an aging defense that will lose Ray Lewis, and Ed Reed(sooner rather than later if the offense is going to play like this)... for someone like Joe Flacco.

[True]

I want to know why Joe Flacco can't run the no huddle and audible by himself. I want an honest answer. Does Cam Cameron not allow him to do it or can he not do it? Last night when they ran their 2 minute offense and Joe was looking on the sidelines for the play really spoke volumes to me. How much control over the offense does he really have, and what's the reason behind it--is he not good enough to handle it or does Cam Cameron want full control.