MERGED: Biggest Problem-Blame Game

[JMONET23]

Tells Cam Cameron to kick rocks and takes charge of the offense. Harbaugh needs to take charge when he sees that cam can't get it done

[funky141]

Credit does go to the Jacksonville defense but Flacco looked bad last night. I have to agree he did miss WR at times but not all his faught. The O-line was bad, no run game at all.

[757RavensFan]

[quote name='JMONET23' timestamp='1319546226' post='836527']
Tells Cam Cameron to kick rocks and takes charge of the offense. Harbaugh needs to take charge when he sees that cam can't get it done
[/quote]

This! At some point Joe has to say "F...this, I'm gonna do this on my own. If I fail it's on me." But dangit, take charge. Ray Lewis changes the defensive plays all the time. Joe needs to step up and do the same.

[H8R]

[quote name='Magnusmd' timestamp='1319545020' post='836487']

How can Joe lead when Cam won't let him?
[/quote]


That's NONSENSE, leaders TAKE respect and MAKE things happen. If Joe can't speak up for himself and show he's more then a guy taking tha ball from center... Cam can't make the throws, call line protection changes on the fly or have an enternal clock saying "these guys arent open, or I dont see them open...let me pick up a couple with the legs"

[H8R]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1319545073' post='836490']

I disagree. We DO know. Clearly, Joe was frustrated and ticked about how long he had to wait for the plays coming from Cam on that hurry up drive. Cam is still in the drivers' seat and it is ludicrous to throw Joe under the bus until we get a real OC in here. [b]Then we can fairly evaluate Flacco.[/b]
[/quote]

and if he sturggles? What will the excuses be then? Then, do we need to give him another 4 years to SEE if it's yet again the Coordinators fault?

[Alexir]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1319539455' post='836389']
It wasn't Flacco's fault, it was Cam's and the OLine. Cam just screws him alltogether, we need like a former QB to coach Flacco, not this guy. The Oline just did horrible. This leads to preassure on the QB, which then leads Joe to make bad decisions. The entire offense didn't help. Recivers couldn't get open, Ray couldn't run, and Flacco wasn't protected. We need Grubbs and Evans back. Now
[/quote]

It gets to a point when it is Flaccos fault. I think its ridiculous how people can defend him after that performance. I think it was the offense as a whole and mainly Cam to blame but Flacco needs to perform better. There are a lot of teams out there with poor offensive lines that can still get a drive going in the first half against a no name defensive front.

Cam
Flacco
Rice
Offensive Line
Receivers

Thats who to blame in that order.

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

That whole offense failed. I agree with you on that but Joe gets about as much blame from me as Cam does. Cam didn't make the adjustments to get our offense going and Joe made dumb decisions and of course threw the INT to end it. Joe is a game manager, not a playmaker which is what I hate about him and we will never have an elite offense as long as Cam is here period.

[Twistidfunk]

Flacco is the easy scapegoat but the entire offense was garbage.

Time to move on to the next game...I am afraid to even watch it

[Guest RBates]

Tyrod and Flacco should be in competition week in and week out. Im tired of the he is our Qb bs. Tyrod would have given us something that Joe couldn't last night with his elusiveness and ability to extend plays.

[flynismo]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1319546280' post='836530']
Credit does go to the Jacksonville defense but Flacco looked bad last night. I have to agree he did miss WR at times but not all his faught. The O-line was bad, no run game at all.
[/quote]


Yeah, Jax brought the A game on defense last night, that's for sure.
You know all about them, they play Indy TOUGH, even if Indy does normally end up winning the game they had to fight for it. Jax is not a pushover, no matter what their record says.

[jaege]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1319516630' post='835449']

The offense let us down. The Defense let them score 9 points all game, as they were tired from the lack of offense and all the 3 and outs by Cam and company. Then an onside kick put them in FG range which they make for their 12th point yet Webb almost blocks it.

Flacco and the offense (Cam huge part of that) let us down. Harbaugh benching Rice for a couple of plays ticked me off too.
[/quote]


True, I give you that. They did stop the Jag's from scoring. Defense did okay. Not their best performance, but still good.

[jaege]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1319516701' post='835461']
I WILL NOT apologize for Joe Flacco anymore. Until he proves he's actually a QB that can take us to the next level, I WON'T believe it. You all know Ive stood behind him, I can no longer do that, not with the hot garbage I saw tonight ( and for most of the season)
[/quote]


I am, sadly, there too. I have supported him, and argued his credentials, but no longer. Count me with the doubters.

[theblackdog]

If Joe learns anything from last night, it's that he'd better take control and learn to disagree with Cam and maybe even Harbsat times. However, this loss is definitely not entirely on him. Our O-line was garbage, especially in pocket protection. Rice just could not carry the ball (that or the ball was dipped in butter), and most of the time our WR's were not getting open. I know our D tried to carry the game, but they could not do everything.

I really wish though that they had started to play hurry-up offense back in the 3rd or even 2nd quarter. Waiting until there's less than 7 minutes left in the 4th was just plain stupid, and I don't know if that is from Cam or Joe, but I hope they're watching game film this morning and both of them know they done screwed up big time.

[PuRock]

It's always been my motto:

Fix the O-Line, Fix Everything

A bad O-Line limits what you can do in terms of playcalling, it hurts the QB, the run game, TOP (defense on the field). The game is truly won in the trenches. But since the entire offense is a hot mess. The designer of this offense is also to blame.

[stormie]

I personally don't like all of the condemnation after a crappy game. I guess people are just frustrated and grumbling but I really don't understand the doomsday comments when we have a lot of games left to play. Last night's game was rough and they have a lot to fix. Give them time!

[RavensFTWCary.W]

Hopefully grubbs and evans will be back next week. I just hope cam cameron doesnt do the samething he does with torey and did with stallworth. "Hey Lee, you see this play, I want you to go run deep and burn the guy, I know this play is not going to work but i don't have any others for you"
Cam needs to get fired.
I do have a big question though, i have been thinking about this alot, but what does Harbaugh even do?

[UMDan]

As much as it's easy to blame Flacco (who didn't have a good game) the rest of the offense made him look much worse:

-Whoever is doing the playcalling (which seems to be Cam) is doing a terrible job. We're so predictable and one-note. I know some people don't like the fancy stuff, but when nothing else is working, we have to get creative. No first downs in the first half is unacceptable.

-Ray Rice had a bad game, turning the ball over and not being too productive with yardage. As much as he needs to be a part of this offense, we weren't getting anywhere on the ground, so him not getting that many carries isn't the wrong call in my eyes. Maybe some more creative playcalling with Rice could've made him a bigger part of this game.

-As many have stated the offensive line is terrible. Hopefully Grubbs' return could help matters but he shouldn't be rushed onto the field until ready. It didn't help that Oher and Gurode pushed us back a few times. Flacco was protected okay, he had time to throw, but nowhere to throw, which leads me to the next issue.

-The receivers had no separation. It's a testament to how well the Jags corners were playing, but it's really hard for Joe to do anything with nobody open, especially since he's no Cam Newton and Ray was fumbling the ball/not getting anywhere on the ground. I would have thought someone fast like Torrey could've gotten more separation, and that Lee Evans when healthy can also help us get open. Once he is healthy we have the option for 3 WR sets and potential to have more open receivers.

So... as much as it's easy to blame Joe for everything, the entire offense did not help him out at all.

[UMDan]

Also I didn't understand why we abandoned the deep shots early in the game. The only passes we were attempting were short little nothings that would never get us a first down. It reminded me of last year and years before. I for one liked the fact that we were taking more deep shots before last night, and when we finally started driving a lot of it was due to longer deep shots down the field.

Anyways, let's remain positive. Remember, Pittsburgh plays New England next week.

[SideStep77]

Fix the O-line thats a definite. Joe had no time to throw at all. Also, maybe we need to search for Cam Cameron's replacement...we are already awful in red-zone offense and this is just another testament that the plays he is selecting, do not work. Once again the defense "put the team on their back" but it just wasn't enough. Good job defense. Offense, that was the worst football game I have ever seen in my entire life.

[52Kia Kaha92]

Firstly the ravens deserved to lose this game however it’s a game they should have won if not for shocking decisions by the refs. On Terrell Suggs sack he was sacked at the 39 yard line and the officials spotted the ball at the 36. That cost us three points and then the terrible pollard call. That was just terrible, the man played like a better version of troy polamalu tonight and he gets that terrible call against him. So that’s six points right there, refs vent over as they only control the game to a certain point and the ravens still should have won this game even though they didn’t deserve to. Paul Kruger also cost the team three points with his stupid attempt at a punt block, come on paul, that was just stupid.

Onto individual and group performances.
QB – Joe Flacco, wow was this terrible, joe has been a joke all year and tonight was just flat out embarrassing. People go on about ‘joe cool’ and how good his demeanour is, well quite frankly he is not calm at all. If things go his way he is very cocky, very up himself, thinking he is all elite and laughing on the sideline, however when things are bad he goes into a shell, is quiet on the sidelines and just doesn’t care. He almost gives up. He needs to forget the last play and move on but he can’t, it’s been like this his entire career. When peyton manning or tom brady are playing badly or playing well they are exactly the same emotionally. Flacco is not, he gets down on himself and just loses control of the game. His emotions need to be sorted out. He gives up and its terrible, he doesn’t get the rams every week so he needs to realise not every play can be perfect, and move on and try make the next play instead of having an attitude of “well its not going well, so who really cares if it doesn’t get any better” . When he plays confidently he is a solid quarterback. He needs to remain confident and not get down on himself.

His pocket awareness is terrible. And he has no idea how to read a defense, this has been evident his entire career and tonight just further proved how terrible he is against 4-3 defenses in particular. He is running around in the pocket when he has a good pocket, he needs to be decisive, step up and make a throw, not run around in the pocket trying to avoid pressure that isn’t there. And then other times he just seems to run around and wait for someone to sack/strip him which happens a lot. He has no pocket awareness and will never lead us to anything as long as it doesn’t improve.

People raved about him when he plays well and i get that, why not, but even when he plays well there are some terrible play in his game. Against the rams he threw a lot of terrible passes, sure the box score looked good but his passing in that game was not that good, a few passes were overthrown or underthrown or just inaccurate. Tonight when Torrey Smith beat (yes he beat cox on this play) deep flacco under threw the pass and threw it towards the sideline where cox was. Smith had to cut back into cox to try catch it. Flacco throws that towards the middle of the field its a touchdown, smith had a step on cox and due to the angle cox was on if flacco hits that in the middle of the field its touchdown time. But no, he makes a terrible choice and makes a bad throw again.
Joe has a cannon arm and some mobility but he is wildly inaccurate, can’t make adjustments, can’t read defenses, has no pocket awareness and makes terrible decisions. His best attribute is his cannon arm but he can’t even use it as he under throws Torrey a lot. Joe is an average quarterback who practically lost us the game today, the defense was amazing as it always is this year and gave up only nine points with the jags having amazing field position a few times. Joe is terrible and he thinks he is elite and deserves a mammoth contract.? Well let him seek a trade and see who is interested and for what price because right now I’d feel more comfortable knowing this guy isn’t going to be around next year than giving him a contract. Is it tryod taylor time.? No, probably not, because the organisation believes in joe and taylor is an unproven rookie, maybe its troy smith time though . Joe needs to sort his stuff out otherwise i think something may just happen in the off season that will put him in a different jersey.

[52Kia Kaha92]

[size=3]Ray Rice
I am going to get bashed for this but im just going to say it, but Ray Rice is a wee bit over rated. He is a much better version of Reggie Bush and pretty much what Reggie bush was expected to be in the pros that had him in debate for the number one overall pick. He is amazing out of the backfield as a pass catcher and after the catch is devastating however as a pure runner he is not the best (perhaps because cam is using him wrong). Im not going to harp on this too much as i know i will get bashed for it and its just a minor point but he is not an elite running back that I would put up with Peterson and Charles or Foster. Great receiver and dangerous in open space but seems to struggle running the football. Still a top five back however. *hides in corner under chair*

John Harbaugh – this man walked into a very good situation with an amazing defense and squad and it has carried him up to this point. I have NEVER been a fan of harbaugh, i think he is smug and arrogant. I could list all the things i don’t like about him but it will be too long so i won’t, but bottom line is that we won’t win anything with him as our coach, he has no idea how to coach a football team and makes stupid decisions that are just unacceptable. Harbaugh has a good vision and i love that, i love what he believes in his players and what he expects a raven to be. I love that and i love his enthusiasm but id rather him just be a coach on the team, not the head coach with all the power. He just doesn’t have it. I’d rather have foot fetish man than harbaugh. Huge mistake in the ravens history.

Cam Cameron
How this guy kept his job is beyond me, The ravens are effective in the shotgun, when we play fast with short to intermediate throws to Dickson, boldin and rice. Two tight end sets also are very effective but yet he doesn’t use it very often at all. Why not use what your good at? Boldin can not separate anymore but when he is in motion before the snap in the slot he is very good. Thats what needs to be happening, he needs to be moving pre snap in motion and then snap the ball with him moving in the slot. Why cam doesn’t do that is beyond me because everytime he does it works. Ray rice on screens works very well and yet we don’t use it? Flacco throwing heaps and rice getting less than ten carries.? Yes i know i said rice is over rated but he is a top five back and needs the ball as much as possible in his hands in open space. Watching the patriots, the saints, you see the same thing, short intermediate throws with a quick pace to them. Flacco has a terrible play fake and will often do it when there is no runningback.? Why doesn’t cam use this which has proved to be effective for us.? Flacco needs completions to get his confidence going. The short intermediate game is what we need to be doing with the occasional deep ball to keep the defense honest. Not throwing deep every throw. Why attack the outside of the field when its more effective attacking the middle getting boldin and rice in space? Cam has done things that work and then just doesn’t use them instead using things that fail over and over. The reasons cam is terrible go on and on. He needs to go.

Brief mentions
Torrey Smith is amazing, he was the only one in that huddle that seemed to believe they could win, he gives his all on every play and is becoming a good football player. Quickly becoming a favourite of mine. Has a lot of heart and plays his all every down.

Laquan Williams is a football player, is a very good blocker for a wideout and plays a lot bigger than he is. Will never amount to anything at receiver but he is tough and the definition of a ‘raven’.

Terrence Cody is turning into a stud. I talked down this guy like no one would believe around the draft and was very upset when we took him but he is turning into an animal. I eat crow happily on this one. Cody has proved me wrong, the guy is becoming a stud.

Haloti ngata was invisible tonight, no pressure all game and clogging he run he got pushed around a bit by a terrible offensive line. Not sure what happened but he was nowhere to be seen and did not play well when we needed him to try make a big momentum changing play.[/size]
[size=3]Terrell Suggs – may not get the stats every week but is an elite player and often is our best defensive player on the field when ngata decides not to show up.

Jameel McClain – why on earth did he try pick up that fumble and run?? Not once, but twice he missed it, he falls on it and we are in field goal range. Just stupid.

Danny Gorrer – sure he played well a few weeks ago but come on, get him off the field when we have out 6’1 stud on the sidelines ready to go. Gorrer didn’t play well tonight.

Bernard Pollard – you would think the man is troy polamalu out there. AMAZING game, the penalty was a joke and not his fault, the guy was our best player and should no doubt be the permanent starter.

Billy Cundiif – thats three missed field goals this year already and when we paid him that sort of money he needs to be making them. Any kicker can get touchbacks with the new rule so i question his future. Great kickoff guy but not the best kicker, even last year he wasn’t great.

Cary Williams – lock the man up, is becoming an extremely good cover guy who is aggressive and fearless corner.

The defense is amazing, enough said, good enough to nearly win us a game where the offense decides it would like to have another bye week.[/size]

[size=3]Offensive line - I would think very hard about moving Oher to LG and Reid at RT as last night not having ben Grubbs athleticism cost us on two run plays that could have been huge but gurode was too slow to get to the block. I know tackle and guard are huge adjustements but i think mike may be better suited to play Guard and i wonder if that would help our offensive line.[/size]

[RayRiceFan27]

If anyone gets the blame its the TEAM. Team as in everyone. Football is a TEAM sport. You can blame the D for letting Jax get 12 points (actually 6 points?), you can blame rice for fumbling and not being able to run, you can blame Flacco for not settling in and making plays, you can blame the oline for their crappy porous blocking, you can blame the WR for not getting separation, and you can blame the coaches for their bad decision making. Not one person alone should be called out (yes Im talking about Flacco), EVERYONE should get the blame for this game, with maybe the exception of Kock, since a punter only really has an impact when punting (which I will say he did a good job last night). Im tired of everyong blaming Flacco all the time for everything. YES I know he sucked last night, I agree with that, but wheres the blame for the online, or ray rice, or our coaches, or our wide recievers? It seems like everytime we lose a game 5 Flacco sucks threads pop up, without any thought to maybe some of our other players were the problem also. Flacco is not the only person on the team that screws up,he doesnt catch balls, or block lineman, or play line backer, or safety (dare I go on?) There are actual other players that play this position. People need to stop putting the blame on one person and put the blame in other places where it belongs. I will say I have seen some blaming the online and coaching, but nothing for rice, or our WR or our Defense (D may be a stretch but you could make a case that they should not have allowed Jax to go down the field for FGs).

Remember when we had a good online that could block? Flacco was actually playing well, and our run game was great. Now look at it, out oline sucks and we cant get anywhere on offense. Im not saying its the only problem, but give a good QB a great oline and time to throw, and give a running back running lanes and block for him, and we would be great on Offense.

End rant/

[Suggs Package]

I don't know if I was watching the same game as everyone else, but the offensive line was pretty decent overall. There was some bonehead penalties by Oher and Gurode got posterized on one play, but overall Flacco had enough time to make throws. A lot of those plays where Joe got hit were from Ray Rice not being able to pick up the blitz. I love Rice to death, but we all know he isn't the best pass blocker out there. So I wouldn't really blame the OL for this one.

One thing that stuck out to me were the crappy routes the WRs were running. Those were the laziest routes I've seen in a long time. They had no moves and it seems like none of the wideouts, even Torrey Smith, were playing at full speed. I know last year we complained about having slow ancient receivers, but it was nice to have a group who had fakes and had the ability to find soft spots in a zone. Torrey can get the deep posts and 9 routes, but you can't depend on that type of high risk, high reward type play to be consistent on offense.

Pretty much, we need Lee Evans or another veteran receiver badly, in my opinion.

[Alexir]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1319548232' post='836610']


True, I give you that. They did stop the Jag's from scoring. Defense did okay. Not their best performance, but still good.
[/quote]
Again, how can you expect them to play lights out when they are so tired from being on the field for soooo long. They knocked the ball lose but couldnt recover it. McClain should of just jumped on it but I don't blame him. The offense can't score points so he thought he had to scoop 6

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1319544318' post='836470']
Another point, why is it that Flacco is not willing to run the ball when a play breaks down? He had a number of chances where he could have gotten us 4-5 yars at a minimum when he was flushed out of the pocket. I understand the thought of making a big play, I get it.... but you HAVE to salvage things sometimes, at LEAST flip the field position battle.
[/quote]

I truly believe he's been told NOT to take off running. Why? Because in the past he's had no problem taking off for 4 or 5 yds if he couldn't find anyone open and there was a lane. The one time he did do it on Monday night, he looked hesitant about it like he was breaking a law. We'll never know but watching him this season IMO he's been told don't do it.

[hawkprey]

This loss was solely on the cheap play by the Jags' DBs. How are you supposed to complete a pass when they're draped all over your receivers all the way down the field? The fact that they only got called for pass interference when the safety literally threw Torrey Smith out of the way on that deep ball was embarrassing for the officials. If you can suddenly play like that, then Anquan should be allowed to throw the CB off his back when he's trying to run his route.