Legitimacy Of Injury Reporting

[UMDan]

This is a question I've actually wondered about for a while and given recent developments I thought it might be a good time to ask. I'm not 100% sure how the process works but I know generally the protocol for how things work in preparation for the game. I know a formal list of "probable", "doubtful", "possible", etc. injury statuses is released a day or two prior to the game.

Before that, generally we go off what we hear from the portions of practice that are covered by the media. I know there was some discussion last week about in the Byrne Identity blog ([url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2011/10/Byrne_Identity_-_Shhhhh_Lets_Not_Talk_About_Injuries.aspx"]http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2011/10/Byrne_Identity_-_Shhhhh_Lets_Not_Talk_About_Injuries.aspx[/url]) confirming some of my beliefs about teams keeping injury information quiet.

For example, let's take Lee Evans, who as I'm sure all of you know has been out with an ankle injury for a while. There's sketchy details on his injury and progress, and whenever coaches talk about him it seems to be a giant mystery about why he's not healing quicker. Is it possible that he's doing better than we know? We can only know what the media gives us, and when the team withholds information from the media, we will be out of the loop, and thus other teams will be too (which is obviously the whole point of withholding information). It's entirely possible that the Ravens know Lee can be ready for the Steelers and they just are keeping that quiet so they don't know whether or not they need to prepare for him. The same can be said for Jimmy Smith, though recently things have sounded more positive about his possibilities of playing soon. As it said in the Byrne Identity blog "knowledge is power" and what other teams don't know about us in advance can only benefit us. I just wanted to share my thoughts and generate a discussion, and also some potential optimism about this injury which has a lot of people feeling dissapointed.

[Twistidfunk]

It is a giant cloud of mystery.

I just try and find out if players were on the field practicing, partial practice, ran a bit or what not and make my own judgement.

I think Lee and Jimmy and Grubbs even will be back for Pittsburgh. Let's face it, we have some weaker teams coming up and we have been pounding other teams well enough to win so no need to rush guys. Plus, we get a chance for the rookies and back ups to get some playing time. Invaluable later in the season.

I am tellin ya, come december /January this team is gonna be fresh and hopefully all our starters. We will be rolling!

[Adam Jones]

Can't really help you with the legitimacy of the system but when it comes to the formal list my approximation goes like this:
Probable: 100%
Questionable: 66%
Doubtful: 33%
Out: 0%

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='Adam Jones' timestamp='1319209523' post='829783']
Can't really help you with the legitimacy of the system but when it comes to the formal list my approximation goes like this:
Probable: 100%
Questionable: 66%
Doubtful: 33%
Out: 0%
[/quote]

Get off of our boards Pacman

[Adam Jones]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1319209918' post='829786']
Get off of our boards Pacman
[/quote]

HAHA I can't help it, that was my name before he went by "Pacman". But don't worry I won't start trouble by "making it rain" anytime soon...

[-Nevermore-]

For the most part I think the list is a bunch of crap. I mean last Sunday night, Chicago/Minnesota, Peppers didn't practice once that week and was listed as doubtful. Came out, had two sacks and seemed perfectly fine for the most part. And who can forget about New England, Brady is or at least was listed on the injury report every single week for his shoulder.

I think the report is more mind games than anything.

[UMDan]

I'm starting to think the same thing. And Harbaugh appears to have a leash on his players in terms of saying much about their injuries. All the statements I've heard are so vague and ambiguous, like Jimmy Smith saying he was "day to day." It wouldn't shock me at all for a lot of players to make their return against Pitt.

[The Black Bird]

When lee evans comes back I think its a strong possibility that he will be our 3rd receiver only because if he is our 2nd receiver he will be playin every snap pretty much and I don't think that would be good for him to come back and play so many snaps like that. We need to bring him back slowly and work him back into the offense. We gotta be careful with his ankle.

[UMDan]

[quote name='The Black Bird' timestamp='1319218151' post='829887']
When lee evans comes back I think its a strong possibility that he will be our 3rd receiver only because if he is our 2nd receiver he will be playin every snap pretty much and I don't think that would be good for him to come back and play so many snaps like that. We need to bring him back slowly and work him back into the offense. We gotta be careful with his ankle.
[/quote]

I would assume with what Torrey has shown that we might move to a 3 WR set when Lee is fully healthy.

[Dudeman]

Welcome to the modern day football jargon and tactics for answering, "how healthy are they really?" to the media.

This is especially maddening in the world of Fantasy Football. I have Jimmy Graham as my tight end, and he didn't practice this week because of ankle soreness. Now this is all too common in football as we know it today. There are also several possible motives and outcomes for this as well. Starting with trying to gauge an individual players over-all effectiveness and involvement in that weeks game plan from an opponents perspective. Graham could be as healthy as a horse and ready to race, or he could be legitimately hurt and therefore have a limited role. Worst of all, Graham could have a serious injury that the team is desperately trying to keep a lid on until they rule him out as a last minute "game time" decision.

The bottom line for most NFL teams and players is that most players only can play on a condition of practice time in a week going up to a game. This is the only way to accurately test physical responsiveness to pain or injury and is also the only way to really be able to gauge a players effectiveness with pain, injury, and preparedness. If a player can't perform in practice they usually wont play, but there are marquee players that defy that common logic.

In examining marquee players they also have some common traits that allow them to better perform while hurt/injured. Most are athletically gifted, being already bigger, stronger, faster than most other players. Basically depending on the severity of their individual injuries most players can find ways to overcome shortcomings and still be enormously effective. Some wear braces, take pain killers, or play in a slightly reduced role. Others are veterans with a unique level of experience, and are already sufficient without the aid of practice. Mostly you'll see Quarterbacks and Linebackers able to be incredibly effective with all sorts of injuries because of the help they can receive from the team around them. Finally you'll also see teams try to keep a "pitch count" by reducing practice time as well, as to not aggravate an injury.

Really when you think of it there hardly ever is a team that doesn't have an injury to report. Realistically they really couldn't give an accurate detailed synopsis either even if they wanted. Legally they are obligated to having patient and doctor confidentiality privileges, and are legally advised to not disclose injury details. Finally from an ethical standpoint they are entitled to privacy when health matters are concerned. So for a team to say anything about a players health at all is simply a courtesy. It's a touchy subject at best, and a lot more complex then what it appears to be on the surface.

[-Nevermore-]

[quote name='UMDan' timestamp='1319216610' post='829878']
I'm starting to think the same thing. And Harbaugh appears to have a leash on his players in terms of saying much about their injuries. All the statements I've heard are so vague and ambiguous, like Jimmy Smith saying he was "day to day." It wouldn't shock me at all for a lot of players to make their return against Pitt.
[/quote]

For sure Dan. I think that's the target date for a lot of our injured guys. Sunday night in Pittsburgh. No sense in rushing them back for a game against Jacksonville or a home tilt with an out of conference team that's struggling.

[UMDan]

[quote name='Dudeman' timestamp='1319223358' post='829950']
Welcome to the modern day football jargon and tactics for answering, "how healthy are they really?" to the media.

This is especially maddening in the world of Fantasy Football. I have Jimmy Graham as my tight end, and he didn't practice this week because of ankle soreness. Now this is all too common in football as we know it today. There are also several possible motives and outcomes for this as well. Starting with trying to gauge an individual players over-all effectiveness and involvement in that weeks game plan from an opponents perspective. Graham could be as healthy as a horse and ready to race, or he could be legitimately hurt and therefore have a limited role. Worst of all, Graham could have a serious injury that the team is desperately trying to keep a lid on until they rule him out as a last minute "game time" decision.

The bottom line for most NFL teams and players is that most players only can play on a condition of practice time in a week going up to a game. This is the only way to accurately test physical responsiveness to pain or injury and is also the only way to really be able to gauge a players effectiveness with pain, injury, and preparedness. If a player can't perform in practice they usually wont play, but there are marquee players that defy that common logic.

In examining marquee players they also have some common traits that allow them to better perform while hurt/injured. Most are athletically gifted, being already bigger, stronger, faster than most other players. Basically depending on the severity of their individual injuries most players can find ways to overcome shortcomings and still be enormously effective. Some wear braces, take pain killers, or play in a slightly reduced role. Others are veterans with a unique level of experience, and are already sufficient without the aid of practice. Mostly you'll see Quarterbacks and Linebackers able to be incredibly effective with all sorts of injuries because of the help they can receive from the team around them. Finally you'll also see teams try to keep a "pitch count" by reducing practice time as well, as to not aggravate an injury.

Really when you think of it there hardly ever is a team that doesn't have an injury to report. Realistically they really couldn't give an accurate detailed synopsis either even if they wanted. Legally they are obligated to having patient and doctor confidentiality privileges, and are legally advised to not disclose injury details. Finally from an ethical standpoint they are entitled to privacy when health matters are concerned. So for a team to say anything about a players health at all is simply a courtesy. It's a touchy subject at best, and a lot more complex then what it appears to be on the surface.
[/quote]

Great post - this brings up the idea that it can work both ways. There can be injuries that teams do their best to cover up from the media. For example, I remember maybe two seasons ago Flacco had some ankle issue towards the end of the season that was being covered up, and after the season came to an end it came out that he was dealing with some sort of injury IIRC. (I don't remember the details all that well.)

[H8R]

In most cases, if a player hasn't practiced all week.... ESPECIALLY on Friday, the chances are VERY high they don't play that week. I think it's foolish the you even have to report injury status updates.... Any sort of (legal)advantage we can have.... I WANT it.