What About Kindle?

[The Raven]

[quote name='Kinda_Dante' timestamp='1318558433' post='822699']
How did this thread go from being about Kindle to being about how people don't like JJ?
[/quote]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Kindle is JJ's backup, but I may be wrong.

[Kinda_Dante]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1318679968' post='823491']

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Kindle is JJ's backup, but I may be wrong.
[/quote]
I guess but it stopped being about why Kindle would be more valuable as a starter and just became about why people don't like his play. And Kindle isn't his backup Kruger is Kindle has been inactive for every game except against the jets.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Wow not much love for Double J. If you think for a second that that Kindle is better than JJ or even close right now you are crazy. All he has over JJ is explosiveness. He does not have the preparation techniques, he does not have the football IQ, he does not have the instincts (although not his fault), he does not have the ability to set the edge. None of those things, are those as flashy as being a premier pass rusher probably not, but they are more important as a whole than one aspect.

JJ is one of the best in the LEAGUE at setting the edge and stretching out plays which with our MLB's makes those zone stretch plays very tough tot run which we are going to have to be looking for most of the year because few lines in the league have the personnel to man blocking the entire game. JJ is going to be critical going forward and right now Sergio is not there so I dont want to see him in there for many snaps unless it is an obvious passing down (3rd and 7 or over).

Another reason JJ will continue to have a HUGE advantage and should be on the field at least 85 % of the snaps because his awareness and experience cannot be replaced. What about that Jet's play where JJ ran it in, few people would have done that and been fooled into thinking it was an incomplete pass but JJ saw what few did and turned it into a TD. I would be more than shocked if Sergio was able to do that.

JJ is still a GREAT player and people are just enamored with the POTENTIAL of Sergio not his actual ability, a lot fo people need to take a closer look at this situation while not being biased. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/sherlock.gif[/img]

[Bltravens]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1318693349' post='823562']
Wow not much love for Double J. If you think for a second that that Kindle is better than JJ or even close right now you are crazy. All he has over JJ is explosiveness. He does not have the preparation techniques, he does not have the football IQ, he does not have the instincts (although not his fault), he does not have the ability to set the edge. None of those things, are those as flashy as being a premier pass rusher probably not, but they are more important as a whole than one aspect.

JJ is one of the best in the LEAGUE at setting the edge and stretching out plays which with our MLB's makes those zone stretch plays very tough tot run which we are going to have to be looking for most of the year because few lines in the league have the personnel to man blocking the entire game. JJ is going to be critical going forward and right now Sergio is not there so I dont want to see him in there for many snaps unless it is an obvious passing down (3rd and 7 or over).

Another reason JJ will continue to have a HUGE advantage and should be on the field at least 85 % of the snaps because his awareness and experience cannot be replaced. What about that Jet's play where JJ ran it in, few people would have done that and been fooled into thinking it was an incomplete pass but JJ saw what few did and turned it into a TD. I would be more than shocked if Sergio was able to do that.

JJ is still a GREAT player and people are just enamored with the POTENTIAL of Sergio not his actual ability, a lot fo people need to take a closer look at this situation while not being biased. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/sherlock.gif[/img]
[/quote]
JJ by far is the better player right now, thats not even in question. I cant speak for other but from my own perspective I think getting Kindle just game time right now will be huge for his development. A couple plays here and there in a pass rush situation, let him play on special teams, just get him dressed out there. His potential is extremely high, we have to cultivate it.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Kinda_Dante' timestamp='1318689643' post='823531']
I guess but it stopped being about why Kindle would be more valuable as a starter and just became about why people don't like his play. [b]And Kindle isn't his backup Kruger is Kindle has been inactive for every game except against the jets.[/b]
[/quote]

Check the team depth chart.

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster/Depth_Chart.aspx"]http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster/Depth_Chart.aspx[/url]

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1318695840' post='823581']
JJ by far is the better player right now, thats not even in question. I cant speak for other but from my own perspective I think getting Kindle just game time right now will be huge for his development. A couple plays here and there in a pass rush situation, let him play on special teams, just get him dressed out there. His potential is extremely high, we have to cultivate it.
[/quote]

no arguments from me about a high ceiling at all. but I think he should only be put in on those garbage snaps to let him try things at the end of the game to see what works for him, so that if he gets burned he can still learn but it wont really hurt the team. However right now he should not sniff the field until late in blowouts, or when he starts to pull his game together a little more in practices.

[Kinda_Dante]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1318696771' post='823585']

Check the team depth chart.

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster/Depth_Chart.aspx"]http://www.baltimore...epth_Chart.aspx[/url]
[/quote]
Oh ok I guess I was wrong about that but he has been inactive so I don't think he has been the true backup but we will see this game if they keep him active then I guess he is, but according to the depth chart you're right. I still don't see a reason for just focusing in on JJ being a bad player it should be a comparison as in why Kindle is more of an asset not just JJ being bad. I like Kindle and I'm rooting for him to get in the game but I like JJ as a player but i wouldn't be surprised if he gets let go after this season with the whole youth movement we have going. Then after that Kindle should be in on a lot of plays.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Kinda_Dante' timestamp='1318702505' post='823617']
Oh ok I guess I was wrong about that but he has been inactive so I don't think he has been the true backup but we will see this game if they keep him active then I guess he is, but according to the depth chart you're right. I still don't see a reason for just focusing in on JJ being a bad player it should be a comparison as in why Kindle is more of an asset not just JJ being bad. I like Kindle and I'm rooting for him to get in the game but I like JJ as a player but i wouldn't be surprised if he gets let go after this season with the whole youth movement we have going. Then after that Kindle should be in on a lot of plays.
[/quote]

I like JJ, don't get me wrong. I just don't think that he is in our future. Kruger and Kindle are our future LOLB's. Maybe even McClellan comes out and shows something big. Who knows at this point. All I know is JJ is 30-31 and his skillset is becoming more and more obsolete for lack of a better word. In today's NFL you have to be able to pass rush. Pass rushing has become more important than runstopping. While I do admire JJ's run stopping prowess, his skillset is a little obsolete due to his lack of pass rush ability.

[wizard1]

I predicted Kindle would never start a down for the us way back on draft day 2 years ago. Look the kid fell down a flight of stairs a cracked his head wide open. Hes always in trouble on and off the field. We need to just admit the draft mistake and get rid of him - he doesn't deserve to take up a roster spot someone really wants to and can play. Bye Bye Sergio

[Bltravens]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1318707787' post='823650']
I predicted Kindle would never start a down for the us way back on draft day 2 years ago. Look the kid fell down a flight of stairs a cracked his head wide open. Hes always in trouble on and off the field. We need to just admit the draft mistake and get rid of him - he doesn't deserve to take up a roster spot someone really wants to and can play. Bye Bye Sergio
[/quote]
Thats a two pronged mistake. A) theres nobody on the team who can play OLB besides JJ, Suggs, and Kruger (Kruger is basically relearning the position). B ) Youre not going to get rid of a guy with Kindle's potential until you know what he can do on the field.

[wizard1]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1318707992' post='823653']
Thats a two pronged mistake. A) theres nobody on the team who can play OLB besides JJ, Suggs, and Kruger (Kruger is basically relearning the position). B ) Youre not going to get rid of a guy with Kindle's potential until you know what he can do on the field.
[/quote]
But he hasn't played OLB except at Texas-and what potential are you talking about-potential means undeveloped talent-I haven't seen any of that in his neighborhood. I need to quote Tom Landry here " that guy needs to find his lifes work"

[wayne]

For those of you that are saying JJ is the better player right now, you think? JJ is a season vet and has been in the league 10+ years with a ton of game time experience while Sergio is basically a rookie with a spec of game time experience. With that being said, I love how Pagano is packaging guys in and out and like last year, JJ should have been packaged out on obvious passing downs b/c he lacks pass rushing skills, plus, it keeps him fresh for 1st and 2nd downs. JJ's smartness and savy with his " Play like a Raven " mentality is very underratted though and he's willing to do the little, unflashy things that doesn't show up on the stat sheet for the greater good of the team and that's his value right there and with todays Pro Athlete, that's priceless.

With that being said, Kindles time will come and he will be slowly worked into the game. Like someone said early, this is a passing league now and the value of players like JJ is dropping in favor of pass rushers who may lack a little in stopping the run ( same way with how people say the days of the run stopping SS's like Pollard are coming to an end in favor of SS's who can cover like having to FS's out there ). The Ravens overall as a team is in a great situation right now regardless and that's all I care about.

[Gordo52]

Trade him to the eagles or panthers for high draft pick. The coaches have to know something about why hes not playing yet. I like him but if hes just gonna sit this whole year and be released at the end we might as well get something for him

[wayne]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1318711705' post='823672']
Trade him to the eagles or panthers for high draft pick. The coaches have to know something about why hes not playing yet. I like him but if hes just gonna sit this whole year and be released at the end we might as well get something for him
[/quote]

It took players like JJ and even Adalious Thomas years before they start seeing any significant playing time and this is actually Sergio's first year being able to play coming off a possibly career ending injury, be patient man,lol. With how successful our pass rush has been without him this year, there is no immediate need to rush him into the action.

[raveon]

Love the motor that McPhee has showed, could it be the reason we haven't seem more of Kindle

[Bltravens]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1318708342' post='823658']
But he hasn't played OLB except at Texas-and what potential are you talking about-potential means undeveloped talent-I haven't seen any of that in his neighborhood. I need to quote Tom Landry here " that guy needs to find his lifes work"
[/quote]
Suggs didnt even play OLB at all until his 2nd year in the NFL. Kindle is someone who actually has experience standing up as a rush LB. What other kind of experience do you expect other than college? If Kindle has "under developed talent" then what the hell do guys like McLellan have or the kid from UNC on the practice squad?

[XxSizzleXx]

JJ is playing like a beast, younger guys will be hard to bring in when he's playing so well.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1318712764' post='823676']
It took players like JJ and even Adalious Thomas years before they start seeing any significant playing time and this is actually Sergio's first year being able to play coming off a possibly career ending injury, be patient man,lol. With how successful our pass rush has been without him this year, there is no immediate need to rush him into the action.
[/quote]
Or immediate need to change anything about our passrush. We got ageing players at C,MLB, and S. We could use extra draft picks because chances are we'll have very high ones this year. I mean I understand so far in his career has been disfunctional but if hes not going to play this year we might as well trade him because he'll become a free agent after the year anyway. And when we got alot of players like Joe,Rice,Grubbs,Webb, and Johnson who will all we got to resign thats alot of money. The more draft picks the better because Birk and Ray might retire after this year and we need some young talent to replace them.Trading someone like Kindle while he still has value could be a good move unless we plan on letting JJ go and then resigning Serg which I dont think would happen unless injury knock on wood

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1318719482' post='823703']
Or immediate need to change anything about our passrush. We got ageing players at C,MLB, and S. We could use extra draft picks because chances are we'll have very high ones this year. I mean I understand so far in his career has been disfunctional but if hes not going to play this year we might as well trade him because he'll become a free agent after the year anyway. And when we got alot of players like Joe,Rice,Grubbs,Webb, and Johnson who will all we got to resign thats alot of money. The more draft picks the better because Birk and Ray might retire after this year and we need some young talent to replace them.Trading someone like Kindle while he still has value could be a good move unless we plan on letting JJ go and then resigning Serg which I dont think would happen unless injury knock on wood
[/quote]
Kindle will have next to no value right now. We will have the highest value on him because we used a 2nd rounder. Trading him would render us maybe a 6th. You dont need to worry about resigning him either because hes going to be making the minimum until he actually has a season where he puts up stats. We could resign him easily at the end of the year at not much cost compared to his potential.

[wayne]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1318720653' post='823708']

Kindle will have next to no value right now. We will have the highest value on him because we used a 2nd rounder. Trading him would render us maybe a 6th. You dont need to worry about resigning him either because hes going to be making the minimum until he actually has a season where he puts up stats. We could resign him easily at the end of the year at not much cost compared to his potential.
[/quote]
Exactly, why would he have any value with what has happen to him plus considering he hasn't done anything. The draft is a crap shot anyway, might as well keep someone like Kindle for the minimum who's young and potential is definitely there. Its not like he played a snap last season or in TC, this season is his rookie season and with the depth we have and how good we are rushing the passer, they can ease him into the action. If our pass rush was lacking, best believe he would be thrown into the fire but that's not the case.

[The Raven]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1318707787' post='823650']
I predicted Kindle would never start a down for the us way back on draft day 2 years ago. Look the kid fell down a flight of stairs a cracked his head wide open. Hes always in trouble on and off the field. We need to just admit the draft mistake and get rid of him - he doesn't deserve to take up a roster spot someone really wants to and can play. Bye Bye Sergio
[/quote]

I don't even know how to respond to this... [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img]

[1/28/01]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1318733871' post='823816']


I don't even know how to respond to this... [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img]
[/quote]
Yeah, dudes a funny one for sure

[The Raven]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1318734194' post='823820']
Yeah, dudes a funny one for sure [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]
[/quote]

No doubt. His posts just brighten my day!

[BmoreRavens732]

Honestly as much as I hate it n love JJ he's gonna need resigned and this is where his age comes in? We have to sign grubbs flacco n rice...flacco is our franchise QB so he's signed...rice is half our offense alone so he's signed n we need someone to protect Joe n open up holes for rice so grubbs is signed....we jus gotta look at the real picture here. From what I've seen from serg is he has a few rookie holes he has to fill n maybe that why there not rushing him in there n letting him learn much like a QB does sometimes when drafted...letting him get a few snaps here n there n all the practice plus next preseason could possibly be his HUGE learning tool to take over next year