When Players Leave Baltimore...

[jdynamite]

Not sure if this topic gets talked about or thought about often but I have always found it interesting with the amount of talent that leaves Baltimore yearly ( and yet we continue to produce Pro Bowlers and replace players especially defensively over the years )
But over the years so many players have chosen to go to other teams and not found the same success that they did as a Raven.

I was really thinking of Le'Ron McClain and all his whining for carries then he went to KC and he gets even less now lol.

There are exceptions of course players like Jamie Sharper and Priest Holmes that went on to become better overall individual players but the list of Adaluis Thomas far out number.

Our success has lead to many assistant coaches becoming HC or DC elsewhere and they take personnel with them like Nolan and Ryan..

[TreTheRaven]

A big name that always comes to my mind is Adalius Thomas. I heard about him only the season after he left. After that, he just became another house hold product, I guess.

What ever happened to him?

[rlh445]

Ha, that gets talked about a lot around here. I think it's true, but we also blow it way out of proportion. There are a couple guys that play for New York that have kept up production after leaving here, at least. Thomas went to the Patties and was just as productive as here.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1318204096' post='819669']
Ha, that gets talked about a lot around here.  I think it's true, but we also blow it way out of proportion.  There are a couple guys that play for New York that have kept up production after leaving here, at least.  [b]Thomas went to the Patties and was just as productive as here.[/b]
[/quote]
Not even close....he went into hibernation and was not even used the way he was here, at all!

[rlh445]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1318205897' post='819696']
Not even close....he went into hibernation and was not even used the way he was here, at all!
[/quote]

The last year he was with the Ravens he played every game. He recorded eleven sacks, one interception for seven yards, seven passes defensed, no forced fumbles, one fumble recovered, sixty four tackles and nineteen assists.

The very next year he played for the Patties and played every game. He recorded 7 sacks, one interception for sixty five yards and a touchdown, eight passes defensed, two forced fumbles, fifty eight tackles and twenty assists.

I call B.S. on your statement. The guy produced even when out of Baltimore, I rest my case.

By the way, he was used as a hybrid ILB/OLB here AND in New England, so you're wrong about that too.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1318211481' post='819767']

The last year he was with the Ravens he played every game.  He recorded eleven sacks, one interception for seven yards, seven passes defensed, no forced fumbles, one fumble recovered, sixty four tackles and nineteen assists.  

The very next year he played for the Patties and played every game.  He recorded 7 sacks, one interception for sixty five yards and a touchdown, eight passes defensed, two forced fumbles, fifty eight tackles and twenty assists.  

I call B.S. on your statement.  The guy produced even when out of Baltimore, I rest my case.

By the way, he was used as a hybrid ILB/OLB here AND in New England, so you're wrong about that too.
[/quote]
One year with equal (or close to equal) stats is nice and all, but he then disappeared. And when I said he was not used in the same capacity that we used him in I was more referring to the fact the we lined him on the edge, in coverage, marked against a RB, as a gunner, in punt coverage and anything else where we could use the freak of an athlete that he was and then he just disappeared.

[rlh445]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1318211933' post='819774']
One year with equal (or close to equal) stats is nice and all, but he then disappeared. And when I said he was not used in the same capacity that we used him in I was more referring to the fact the we lined him on the edge, in coverage, marked against a RB, as a gunner, in punt coverage and anything else where we could use the freak of an athlete that he was and then he just disappeared.
[/quote]

Not only is it 'nice and all', it totally refutes what you said about him going into hibernation. You didn't say, 'he produced just as much for a year after and then went into hibernation'. The guy still went out and did what he did after he left this team, which was the original point of my original post. It's a myth that guys leave this team and then don't produce because the Ravens are just that good..it's a fake ego boost for fans and I was just pointing that out. If he was really a 'freak of an athlete' (which I'm not disputing) then it is pretty ludicrous for anyone to say he just disappeared because he didn't, he went out with a dang good year..hung on for nine games the season after the one I quoted even with an injury and played fourteen the following year. He didn't put up the numbers he used to, but let's be real - at that point he was thirty-two and not everyone is Ray Lewis. I know what you were referring him to and the Patties used him the same way. He wasn't just lined up on the edge every play - in fact, he was starting for them when Seau and Bruschi were both injured.

[Tiz]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1318211481' post='819767']

The last year he was with the Ravens he played every game. He recorded eleven sacks, one interception for seven yards, seven passes defensed, no forced fumbles, one fumble recovered, sixty four tackles and nineteen assists.

The very next year he played for the Patties and played every game. He recorded 7 sacks, one interception for sixty five yards and a touchdown, eight passes defensed, two forced fumbles, fifty eight tackles and twenty assists.

I call B.S. on your statement. The guy produced even when out of Baltimore, I rest my case.

By the way, he was used as a hybrid ILB/OLB here AND in New England, so you're wrong about that too.[/quote]

8, 9, 11 sacks last 3 yrs in baltimore. 3 yrs in ne he didnt produce like that. He didnt make impact plays so ne got tbc back.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Tiz' timestamp='1318213981' post='819794']
8, 9, 11 sacks last 3 yrs in baltimore. 3 yrs in ne he didnt produce like that. He didnt make impact plays so ne got tbc back.
[/quote]

What man, lol..I'm not trying to be disrespectful but I'm not sure what you are saying.

[Tiz]

His sack numbers increased each yr his last 3 yrs in baltimore
Numbers declined in ne. Thats why they went and got tully banta cain back.
His impact plays decreased in ne.

Your attempt to prove otherwise goes against reality.
His numbers declined and so did his impact.

You can debate why but facts show he declined...

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1318213932' post='819793']

Not only is it 'nice and all', it totally refutes what you said about him going into hibernation. You didn't say, 'he produced just as much for a year after and then went into hibernation'. The guy still went out and did what he did after he left this team, which was the original point of my original post. [/quote]

Semantics to try to salvage your argument. However, facts speak otherwise:

[u]Thomas' Last Three Years in Baltimore:[/u]
190 Tackles
28 Sacks
4 Interceptions
3 Defensive Touchdowns
8 Forced Fumbles
5 Fumble Recoveries
17 Defensed passes
1 Safety

[u]Thomas' Three Years in New England:[/u]
109 Tackles
14.5 Sacks
1 Interception
1 Defensive touchdown
2 Forced Fumbles
0 Fumble Recoveries
14 Defensed Passes
0 Safeties

The only, [i]only[/i], statistic that is comparable is the defensed passes. That's it. Otherwise, nearly every statistic dropped nearly in half. Now do please tell us how that isn't indicative of a decline? It's certainly not a increase or a plateau.

[rlh445]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1318215887' post='819810']

Semantics to try to salvage your argument. However, facts speak otherwise:

[u]Thomas' Last Three Years in Baltimore:[/u]
190 Tackles
28 Sacks
4 Interceptions
3 Defensive Touchdowns
8 Forced Fumbles
5 Fumble Recoveries
17 Defensed passes
1 Safety

[u]Thomas' Three Years in New England:[/u]
109 Tackles
14.5 Sacks
1 Interception
1 Defensive touchdown
2 Forced Fumbles
0 Fumble Recoveries
14 Defensed Passes
0 Safeties

The only, [i]only[/i], statistic that is comparable is the defensed passes. That's it. Otherwise, nearly every statistic dropped nearly in half. Now do please tell us how that isn't indicative of a decline? It's certainly not a increase or a plateau.
[/quote]

A decline, dear sir, is not what was being argued. A 'hibernation' is. Saying he produced less (due to age, change of scenery, what have you) is one thing. Those later numbers you posted clearly show the man produced after his stay in Baltimore and that was the only point I was trying to make. I wasn't trying to say he was a superstar, only that he still contributed a lot to the ballclub he fell to after Baltimore, which your very helpful numbers quite handily prove. I wasn't arguing there wasn't a decline; I was merely arguing that he didn't become just a blot on the inkpad of football life just because he left the Baltimore Ravens. Thanks Awaken!

[AwakenTheDemon]

Would you cease with the semantics in an attempt to salvage your point? Hibernation, decline. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's safe to say that it's all the same in this situation to 1/28/01.

But you know what? I'll say that having your entire library of statistics drop damn near in half after changing teams is pretty much him going into "hibernation". Have a good day.

[rlh445]

What I am trying to get across through one example is that it is silly to tout that guys who leave this team are no longer good the second they step out of a Ravens uniform and don another when it is obviously false. We scout good players and groom good players but sometimes those players leave and have very successful careers elsewhere and I was just pointing out that some Ravens' fans crow about guys' leaving here and never doing anything else..I was just trying to point out that guys do accomplish goals outside of the Ravens team.

The Ravens knew when to drop Thomas, and his stats show the drop in performance that was already evident. I don't consider a hibernation to be continuing to start on an NFL caliber team. Putting the three years he spent in New England up against his entire career is ridiculous, but I can see you put a lot of thought and stock into it and I will agree his last three years were nothing compared to his previous time in the NFL. That doesn't mean he wasn't productive, or that my original point is wrong..considering he is one of many ex-Ravens who had a good run after they left here.

Oh and let me explain so that you stop typing out 'semantics'. A declination in skills is not the same as a hibernation and I'm not sure how you can mix the two together as if they even mean the same thing. A declination is not what was in question..perhaps you'd know that had you actually been involved in the original conversation. A hibernation would mean that in a typical 16 game season Thomas did NOT produce similar results and instead produced almost nil to what he had produced the year before. Oh wait, he did the exact opposite. A declination is on a ramp, and a hibernation is a straight drop. I'm sorry that you had trouble discerning what he and I were discussing.

[BloodRaven]

No matter how you skew stats they only tell part of the story. The only defender I can think of who got better after leaving is Aubrayo Franklin.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1318217981' post='819835']
What I am trying to get across through one example is that it is silly to tout that guys who leave this team are no longer good the second they step out of a Ravens uniform and don another when it is obviously false. We scout good players and groom good players but sometimes those players leave and have very successful careers elsewhere and I was just pointing out that some Ravens' fans crow about guys' leaving here and never doing anything else..I was just trying to point out that guys do accomplish goals outside of the Ravens team.

The Ravens knew when to drop Thomas, and his stats show the drop in performance that was already evident. I don't consider a hibernation to be continuing to start on an NFL caliber team. Putting the three years he spent in New England up against his entire career is ridiculous, but I can see you put a lot of thought and stock into it and I will agree his last three years were nothing compared to his previous time in the NFL. That doesn't mean he wasn't productive, or that my original point is wrong..considering he is one of many ex-Ravens who had a good run after they left here.

Oh and let me explain so that you stop typing out 'semantics'. A declination in skills is not the same as a hibernation and I'm not sure how you can mix the two together as if they even mean the same thing. A declination is not what was in question..perhaps you'd know that had you actually been involved in the original conversation. A hibernation would mean that in a typical 16 game season Thomas did NOT produce similar results and instead produced almost nil to what he had produced the year before. Oh wait, he did the exact opposite. A declination is on a ramp, and a hibernation is a straight drop. I'm sorry that you had trouble discerning what he and I were discussing.
[/quote]
Are you his agent or something? You seem to be taking this a little too personally.

I agree that many Ravens that leave aren't as productive, that includes some coaches too

[codizzle]

I thought it was obvious that ad dropped off badly at ne.
Call it hibernation call it sucking call it whatever but he didnt do there what he did here

[harfordravenfan]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1318361191' post='820915']
I thought it was obvious that ad dropped off badly at ne.
Call it hibernation call it sucking call it whatever but he didnt do there what he did here
[/quote]

I think only one person on here would disagree. The majority of us completely agree, in fact only a couple come to mind that continued to be more than average.

[Bltravens]

AD was not even close to the same player for NE. He was productive his first year I believe it was, broke his arm in week 6 the next year, and was useless his third.

The only player I stand to think who was still able to play at a high level past Baltimore on defense was Jamie Sharper.

[codizzle]

Didnt sam adams do alright after he left here? Pretty sure he made the pro bowl again

[harfordravenfan]

Bart Scott and Marvin Lewis have done ok

[Shammy]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1318364677' post='820971']
Didnt sam adams do alright after he left here? Pretty sure he made the pro bowl again
[/quote]

yea he did with the raiders i think .. he was still good with every team he played for

[1/28/01]

[quote name='harfordravenfan' timestamp='1318365353' post='820989']
Bart Scott and Marvin Lewis have done ok
[/quote]
Eh, I like the guy (Marvin), but I wouldn't necessarily call this - 63/69 regular season and an 0/2 post season records - a success....but hey, I am biased!!

[marylandmike12]

well ive never heard d mason and only a little of willis mcgahee

[K-Dog]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1318364677' post='820971']
Didnt sam adams do alright after he left here? Pretty sure he made the pro bowl again
[/quote]


yeah he did so well that 98ROCK Named their countdown to game day show after him.

[harfordravenfan]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1318365685' post='820999']

Eh, I like the guy (Marvin), but I wouldn't necessarily call this - 63/69 regular season and an 0/2 post season records - a success....but hey, I am biased!!
[/quote]

Wow, Didn't realize the w/l record was that bad (too lazy to look it up) but at least he lasted for a few years :-)

[Tiz]

[quote name='marylandmike12' timestamp='1318376802' post='821132']
well ive never heard d mason and only a little of willis mcgahee
[/quote]
Mcgahee is doing fine. Denver just has drama at qb that takes away from mcgahees presence

[Free Agent]

[quote name='Tiz' timestamp='1318391293' post='821295']
Mcgahee is doing fine. Denver just has drama at qb that takes away from mcgahees presence
[/quote]
Yeah McGahee has cracked 100 yds a game a couple times this season. Im happy for him.

[jdynamite]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1318213932' post='819793']


Not only is it 'nice and all', it totally refutes what you said about him going into hibernation. You didn't say, 'he produced just as much for a year after and then went into hibernation'. The guy still went out and did what he did after he left this team, which was the original point of my original post. It's a myth that guys leave this team and then don't produce because the Ravens are just that good..it's a fake ego boost for fans and I was just pointing that out. If he was really a 'freak of an athlete' (which I'm not disputing) then it is pretty ludicrous for anyone to say he just disappeared because he didn't, he went out with a dang good year..hung on for nine games the season after the one I quoted even with an injury and played fourteen the following year. He didn't put up the numbers he used to, but let's be real - at that point he was thirty-two and not everyone is Ray Lewis. I know what you were referring him to and the Patties used him the same way. He wasn't just lined up on the edge every play - in fact, he was starting for them when Seau and Bruschi were both injured.
[/quote]

I think u took his hibernation statement way out of text... If person looks at what occurred with a A.Thomas sure he posted 6.5 sacks the next season after leaving the Ravens but the impact he had as a versatile player being able to line up at ILB , OLB, DE create mismatches etc. He seemed like he was going to only improve into a more feared pass rusher Or one of those LB patriots use to confuse offenses.

[jdynamite]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1318217207' post='819825']


A decline, dear sir, is not what was being argued. A 'hibernation' is. Saying he produced less (due to age, change of scenery, what have you) is one thing. Those later numbers you posted clearly show the man produced after his stay in Baltimore and that was the only point I was trying to make. I wasn't trying to say he was a superstar, only that he still contributed a lot to the ballclub he fell to after Baltimore, which your very helpful numbers quite handily prove. I wasn't arguing there wasn't a decline; I was merely arguing that he didn't become just a blot on the inkpad of football life just because he left the Baltimore Ravens. Thanks Awaken!
[/quote]

Lol so your point is he produced. Because the term hibernation implies he didn't do anything at. He got signed to a huge contract with hopes that he would continue to be a pro bowl player and possibly an All Pro player....
Nobody said when players leave Baltimore they vanish into the abyss lol. By saying hey he still has some stats so he's productive would be like saying Kyle Boller is also productive