Flacco a.k.a. Jekyll and Hyde?

[Crabcakes&Football]

Give a little credit to the Jets defense, they played very well throughout the game. Keep in mind he played arguably the best secondary in the league with only one veteran receiver, the rest had a combined 4 catches coming into the game. And he was pressured well throughout the night and the running game didn't kick off til later and one of his top targets dropped a few passes. I'm not saying he played well, because he didn't, but Rex had his boys ready to play and it showed.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1317649754' post='814141']


We're all Ravens fans here but we're not always going to see eye to eye, you don't have to pull your hair out because somebody says what they think.
[/quote]
I don't pull my hair out....you put too much emotion into your responses when I rebuttal something. Its called debate and conversation. What am I going to say when I read something I disagree with? "Oh, okay....cool"?

[PuRock]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1317652562' post='814198']
I don't pull my hair out....you put too much emotion into your responses when I rebuttal something. Its called debate and conversation. What am I going to say when I read something I disagree with? "Oh, okay....cool"?
[/quote]

I thought you were going to take the week off? Haha.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1317652921' post='814209']


I thought you were going to take the week off? Haha.
[/quote]
I know, right? I've probably posted even more this morning. Trying to hush up the detractors!

[callahan09]

Flacco is taking a lot of heat for this performance, but you cannot put all of the blame on his shoulders for a passing game letdown. Amongst all those incompletions were a number of dropped passes. That isn't Flacco's fault and he did what he needed to do in those situations. Some of his long shots down the field were good passes but the coverage was incredibly tight and occassionally I would say there were even plays where interference could have been called because of contact but it wasn't. Some of them were plays where for whatever reason the receiver just didn't go downfield as fast as usual and so the ball seemed overthrown, but I think the route was underran or the coverage was too good to get off the line with the kind of speed that is expected for those downfield shots. Is that Flacco's fault?

The coverage all game was very tight and the receivers were not getting open, but Flacco only threw one interception and it was actually not as boneheaded of a move as everyone is making it out to be. Somehow there was a miscommunication between Flacco and Rice: somehow the route Rice was running was cut short, not sure whose fault the communication error was, but Flacco had a route in mind and he threw the ball accordingly but Rice ran a different shorter route and the result was not good for us but it was not a bad throw or a bad play, it was bad communication that led to QB thinking one route was unfolding and Receiver thinking another.

Are we criticising Flacco largely because of incompletions? Because an incompletion is not always a bad thing. He didn't have anyone open for many of those, and he tried all he could and instead it was an incompletion. With the coverage and pressure that a very, very good Jets D was getting on us all night long, Flacco could have really made a lot more mistakes lke Sanchez did and thrown interceptions or taking very damaging sacks. The worst of Joe's plays was in my mind just simply trying to make too much happen on his feet on his fumble play. But other than the fumble at the end of it, it would have been a pretty nice play to make something happen and you may want to use the play right there to say that Flacco will never be elite, but I have seem that same kind of tackle on a scrambling QB lead to a fumble from every single QB in this league that we routinely call elite. It happens sometimes.

No, I do not think that this game is "proof" that Flacco will never be an elite passer. It just happened to be a very tough defense that got a lot of pressure and had great pass coverage that led to a difficult night. Flacco made the same kind of mistakes in those situations that I have seen Tom Brady make many times before as well. And a lot of those incomplete passes can have blame placed on the D for covering our receivers well and not letting them get open, on the receivers for not getting open, and in some situations the receivers for not going up and getting and bringing in catchable balls.

We won. Take it.

[DxDOOM]

It just seems to me they are trying to force the big play. I like big plays. But one has to work for em. Lot of dinks and dunks and safe stuff. Then try and pop one or 2. I think it's more the coaches then Flacco.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1317651966' post='814184']
Having an elite qb on this team would great. And hopefully Flacco at some point turns into that elite qb, but at this point he isn't. He is still inconsistent, and so is our entire offense for that matter. Receivers had some drops, offensive line was streaky, and Flacco just made some bad decisions. But there are games were our offense picks up our defense (last year there are more examples of that), and it just depends on the matchups we play.

The most important question is: Can we rely on our offense when we need them to? In my opinion, it's hard to say no. Sure they are inconsistent, but there is no team with the Jets pass defense and a powerhouse offense. Our offense is built to matchup with every team.

Now does our pass defense struggle with elite qb's and elite receivers? Yes. Does Flacco and our offense struggle against cover two and elite defenses? Yes. It's easy to point at Flacco and say "If you didn't make mistakes then we would win", which is true. But a team that relies on one player is relying too much on one player. We need a qb who can make plays at the end of the game. Flacco can do that. Our team doesn't fully rely on Flacco, but in my opinion, that is better than just a team with an elite qb and relies completely on them. Because those teams have glaring weaknesses and the ravens can beat those teams because of how we are built.
[/quote]

Basically our offense is good enough to beat the Shout out teams, like we beat new orleans. Joe can complement a good running back, but of the group of QBs his age and younger I think he stands out.

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' timestamp='1317640079' post='814024']
There were some key throws that were dropped. Ed Dickson should've had a superstar day, not Flacco's fault. Is he Aaron Rodgers? No, but he's certainly a lot better than other QBs out there and certainly the best QB our franchise has had so far.
[/quote]
Exactly, he's not Rodgers, and on that note, you all must have forgot the game Rodgers had against the Jets last year. It was abysmal, i mean God aweful. The Jets passing defense is on point, the do the same things to Tom Brady and any other "elite" quarterback you can think of. Bottom line is we got the win lets move on

[Alexir]

Flacco isn't Aaron Rodgers. He is gonna struggle against Cromartie and Revis. That's fine. If we had started Torrey instead of Evans against Titans, I think the numbers would of been completely different.

[Brock86]

If I remember right one deep pass to Smith with Revis covering was a bit overthrown, but it seemed like Revis grabbed his jersey a bit just enough to slow Smith down to miss the pass.
Had flacco connected on that long pass his numbers would've been a bit better, but I agree he was off last night and didn't look well.
I think expecting Flacco to be Brady or Manning is a bit unrealistic and I'm just happy we don't have Boller + A.Wright anymore, atleast we get more of the good than the bad.

[baltravens]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1317632955' post='813993']
Weeks 1 & 3 (vs Steelers at Rams)

44 for 77 613 yds 6 Td's 0 int's (2-0) W-L

Weeks 2 & 4 (at Titans vs Jets)

25 for 63 360 yds 1 Td 3 int's (1-1) W-L


will Flacco turn it around or will we have inconsistency throughout the season?
[/quote]
I believe this has much to do with Cam Cameron. Reports are that Cam is letting Flacco dictate more with audibles/check-downs, but the game plan that scripted has a lot to do with what Flacco does when dropping back to pass.
Last night we played a historically good defense and a what is probably a top-tier secondary, just look at their corners, so we struggled a bit in the second half as Rex made his adjustments. I agree, more consistency out of Flacco, he is not a puppy anymore.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Brock86' timestamp='1317660656' post='814404']
If I remember right one deep pass to Smith with Revis covering was a bit overthrown, but it seemed like Revis grabbed his jersey a bit just enough to slow Smith down to miss the pass.
Had flacco connected on that long pass his numbers would've been a bit better, but I agree he was off last night and didn't look well.
I think expecting Flacco to be Brady or Manning is a bit unrealistic and I'm just happy we don't have Boller + A.Wright anymore, atleast we get more of the good than the bad.
[/quote]

Revis was grabbing jersey and was a bit physical throughout that route. He didn't have an answer for Torrey's speed. That could have slowed down Torrey a bit.

[True]

His pocket presence is getting a lot better. He was able to move around and extend the play. He made a few bad throws, was working with rookie WRs, Ed Dickson dropped some passes, and not having a completion for over two quarters was poor.

There was some plays he did well and others that weren't great. I expect him to get more consistent when Lee Evans returns and you add a veteran WR. The young recieving corps will get better with time and I expect Dickson to step up.

.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1317661486' post='814427']

Revis was grabbing jersey and was a bit physical throughout that route. He didn't have an answer for Torrey's speed. That could have slowed down Torrey a bit.
[/quote]

Yep, it looked as though Torrey could have beaten one of the best CBs in the NFL. I think we have a potential BEAST of a WR in the Flock!

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='jt3751' timestamp='1317662182' post='814439']


Yep, it looked as though Torrey could have beaten one of the best CBs in the NFL. I think we have a potential BEAST of a WR in the Flock!
[/quote]

Yeah if not for the holding and illegal contact, Torrey burns Revis for a long TD.

[ravenanchors]

I want to point out that against the Rams, when Joe threw for all those yards, he did a good job throwing the ball.
But
The team did not make it into the endzone after the 1st quarter. Some have said that is because they didn't need to score. So I suppose that they weren't trying to score? I never heard of that strategy before.

The problem wasn't Joe's passing ability, it was that there was no strategy to get into the endzone.
Therein lies the problem.
There is no real strategy with the offensive play calling. As Cam said, he doesn't put too much emphisis on the opponents record or their weakness when game planning.

Obviously the defensive coordinator disagrees. He finds the weakness and attacks. This difference in strategy is the reason the offense is inconsistent from week to week.

The Ravens played 1 good team this year (the titans) and the ravens lost. The offense only scored 13 pts in the first half. No TD's in the second half.

The Rams were a bad team and the Ravens couldn't score a TD after the 1st quarter.

The Jets had a good defense, but the strategy was throw in the first half and run in the second half. It didn't make any difference to the O.C. what was happening on the field.

My conclusion is that the offensive problem has to be the play calling, game plan and game preparation which is the responsibility of the coaches.

Not for the Jets game but for not being able to score past the 1st quarter this year. Except the Steelers game. and the steelers are a terrible team this year.

[Jamal]

Flacco had an off night no doubt, but his stat-line looks a lot worse than it should.

Once again our receivers really struggled to get separation, and Cam once again fails to help them out. Look, I'm not trying to pin all the blame on Cam, but c'mon man. Everyone in the stadium knew Flacco's long ball was just off. How about some short completions instead of long bombs or nothing.

[Gordo52]

Hes probably the most hot and cold QB in the NFL. Although he did go against the Titans and Jets who both have alright defenses. Plus hes really only played for 3 years and 3 weeks before this game. Hes still young and is gonna make some stupid mistakes. The only problem I had was he did it at home. But hey, he did a hell of alot better then Sanchez

[bmore187]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1317635539' post='813999']
@bmore187 Are you an Elvis Grbac or Chris Redman fan? Are you a Rex Ryan fan that thinks he is the "real" head coach of the Ravens? What more do you want? We won. We're 3-1. We dominated the Steelers and the Jets, two teams every "expert" in the offseason picked to finish over us. Get out of your fantasy football world. This isn't a pretty game. Sometimes you play well, and sometimes you don't. Bottom line: we won, and won big. We've shown we can pass on teams, and run on teams. We have a good passing defense and a good run defense. We are a tough team to beat, no matter what unit or player is having an off night. Focus on that. And like I said, watch some film from about 2001-2005. Then you'll gain a much better appreciation for what a 4th year quarterback could do that established veterans (and Kyle Boller, the guy Ozzie gave up a first round draft pick for) couldn't.
[/quote]

We shouldnt have to count on the D to bail us out everytime. I understand that Flacco wont be perfect every game, but when ur offense is ur own worst enemy there is a problem. When we play teams with a tough D we need Flacco to basically manage the game "playing not to lose" last night Flacco and company were doing things to hand the Jets a W. If our D wasnt so great yesterday we lose.

[CorvusCorax]

Well at least Joe didn't pull a Week 3 Tom Brady. Wait Brady threw for 4 INTs against the Bills? The BILLS? At least he didn't pull a Romo and throw 3 INTs.

Stop being tunnel vision driver fans and start seeing the whole picture. I'm not saying that Joe is elite. What I am saying is that he's better than what most of you are giving him a hard time about.

That's right folks even QBs have bad games. Just ask Brady, Romo, and a few others.

[atljbo]

What surprise me is Peter King said Flacco completion % is 49.3... EVen in his monster games his % was under 60% ... Its a long season ... Im sure he will hit that 60% mark... That just caught me off guard

[bmore187]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1317667425' post='814601']
What surprise me is Peter King said Flacco completion % is 49.3... EVen in his monster games his % was under 60% ... Its a long season ... Im sure he will hit that 60% mark... That just caught me off guard
[/quote]

yeah Flacco hasnt been very accurate this year. Usually hes over 60% completion percentage. I think we're passing just a bit too much. Cams playcalling has a lot to do with that 49% percentage

[Tank 92]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1317665175' post='814507']

We shouldnt have to count on the D to bail us out everytime. I understand that Flacco wont be perfect every game, but when ur offense is ur own worst enemy there is a problem. When we play teams with a tough D we need Flacco to basically[i][b] manage the game "playing not to lose"[/b][/i] last night Flacco and company were doing things to hand the Jets a W. If our D wasnt so great yesterday we lose.
[/quote]

I hope we never again "play not to lose". That was our downfall last year. Not to say we don't grind it and run the ball when we can when ahead late, like we did late in the game last night. But sitting on a lead with time left for the other team to come back is for losers. We don't have the 2k D and there's no need to put that kind of pressure on them. Obviously they play a lot better when they can take chances and attack rather than just defend.

I don't know what all of the excitement is about. Did Joe really play that badly? The pick six was a missed communication between him and RR. I thought he did pretty well avoiding the pressure and his stats(and some of these opinions)would be a lot different if not for some dropped balls and uncalled penalties(ie - PI on Dickson in the end zone).

[Tank 92]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1317667425' post='814601']
What surprise me is Peter King said Flacco completion % is 49.3... EVen in his monster games his % was under 60% ... Its a long season ... Im sure he will hit that 60% mark... That just caught me off guard
[/quote]

Joe's been under a lot of pressure in each of this year's games. A lot of the incompletions have been to avoid sacks and more importantly, interceptions. If the O line gets completely healthy and on track, his completion percentage will go up.

[keebl3rs]

I feel like our short yardage passing game disappeared once Mason left. Now, it's either a bomb to Torrey Smith, a check down to Rice... or after the play has broken down, a pass to a TE with Joe scrambling.

Can't tell if Boldin just doesn't get separation or Joe isn't looking.

[bmore187]

[quote name='jt3751' timestamp='1317667731' post='814617']

I hope we never again "play not to lose". That was our downfall last year. Not to say we don't grind it and run the ball when we can when ahead late, like we did late in the game last night. But sitting on a lead with time left for the other team to come back is for losers. We don't have the 2k D and there's no need to put that kind of pressure on them. Obviously they play a lot better when they can take chances and attack rather than just defend.

I don't know what all of the excitement is about. Did Joe really play that badly? The pick six was a missed communication between him and RR. I thought he did pretty well avoiding the pressure and his stats(and some of these opinions)would be a lot different if not for some dropped balls and uncalled penalties(ie - PI on Dickson in the end zone).
[/quote]

I agree with you, what i mean by saying playing not to lose is that when we have a lead and the passing game is not working (like last night) against a tough D, i would rather Flacco more so manage the game then wing it 35,40 times going 3 and out and putting the D right back out on the field. There is a time to be aggressive (which i love) but there is also a time for the playing not to lose. For example our 2nd regular season game against Pitt , Cam calls for a pass play late in the 4th qtr and Flacco gets stripped by Polamalu and leads to Pitts only TD of the game giving them the AFC North title and homefield advantage. Now if we just run the ball and drain more clock and punt, there was no way Big Ben at least in that game was gonna march 80yds plus for the victory

[atljbo]

[quote name='jt3751' timestamp='1317668016' post='814624']

Joe's been under a lot of pressure in each of this year's games. A lot of the incompletions have been to avoid sacks and more importantly, interceptions. If the O line gets completely healthy and on track, his completion percentage will go up.
[/quote]


yea.. Alot of QB's are having O-Line problems... Matt Ryan has been beatin this year.

I think O-Lines suffer the most from the lockout and the no contact practices.

[#1RavenFan]

be very careful what you all ask for, dont you remember the god awful years were we didnt even score one offensive point? you know with *cough* boller ?..... flacco is our quaterback, we have to have his back whether he played bad or not....... a win is a win, i dont care how it happens as long as we get a W in the column.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1317668407' post='814640']

I agree with you, what i mean by saying playing not to lose is that when we have a lead and the passing game is not working (like last night) against a tough D, i would rather Flacco more so manage the game then wing it 35,40 times going 3 and out and putting the D right back out on the field. There is a time to be aggressive (which i love) but there is also a time for the playing not to lose. For example our 2nd regular season game against Pitt , [i][b]Cam calls for a pass play late in the 4th qtr and Flacco gets stripped by Polamalu and leads to Pitts only TD of the game giving them the AFC North title and homefield advantage. Now if we just run the ball and drain more clock and punt, there was no way Big Ben at least in that game was gonna march 80yds plus for the victory[/b][/i]
[/quote]


AMEN! You got that right!

[Milton145]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1317635628' post='814000']

The guy played maybe the best passing defense in the league. When he torched the Steelers, nobody on this board seemed to have a problem. Maybe you'd rather have the "consistent" Tom Brady and his four INTs vs the Bills?
[/quote]

Yes because we all know Tom Brady throws 4 INTs every single game right? And of course we had no problem with it because well..he torched our biggest rival. No one expected him to throw 4 TDs, 450 yards, and no INTs...but your kidding yourself if you haven't seen any inconsistency in Flacco this year.




[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1317642315' post='814036']

Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch the game. We had inexperienced WRs going against top notch CBs. Dickson dropped quite a few perfect passes. Rice stopped on his route which led to the INT. The Jets were getting some serious pressure on Flacco because NO ONE WAS OPEN. Yes, Flacco tried forcing some to make something happen. Yes, we looked good in the first quarter because we used Rice as a decoy. That sort of thing only works for so long though. We have a lot of new faces on offense. We aren't going to look as streamlined as the Patriots after only 4 games. Sorry folks. It's the NFL and doesn't work that way. We ran the ball like everyone wanted and what happened? 3rd and 9 and the Jets' brought the house. Hello hit on Flacco and fumble. We ran the ball again and what happened? Hello Ricky Williams fumble. These things happened because we played scared and made ourselves one dimensional on offense. Thankfully our D had the game well in hand.
[/quote]


I'm watching the same game you were obviously. You probably just missed a few..well by the looks of it...every bad pass from Flacco last night. No I'm not going all "edreedfromtheu" on Joe right now. I support him as much as you guys do but the difference I see here is that I'm not afraid to straight up admit when he was a horrid game. Or I'm not afraid to point out the fact that he has had inconsistent performances this year so far and it seems like his accuracy has actually regressed.

Dickson did have a few bad drops but that's not the SOLE reason Flacco's completion percentage was so bad. He's missed a lot of throws not only last night, but the entire season. There were more than a few times we targeted Torrey Smith deep while he WAS open and Flacco failed to put it in there. I'm not saying he should be able to hit it everytime but with the amount of times we targeted the deep throw he should have been able to drop it in there at least once, but he failed to do it obviously. You can use the excuse "but Jets are an elite defense/secondary blah blah" but really...come playoff time, do you really think that excuse is going to slide?

The point I was trying to make is that Flacco has been inconsistent so far this year. Not calling for his head since I'm still fully behind him and want him too succeed like everyone else, but his accuracy is a problem that NEEDS to be fixed soon if we even hope of going deep into the postseason.