Foxworth To IR, Burgess signed

[GrimCoconut]

I'm not worried about the cornerback position. We can always get Ngata to play corner. After all, he can play any position on the field, practically.

[Ravensstrike4424]

[quote name='Moderator 6' timestamp='1317223873' post='807432']
This is a good move. Should the Ravens have cut Foxworth last month?
[/quote]

no

[Ravensstrike4424]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1317229027' post='807576']
Oz is human? He makes mistakes? Say it ain't so!!!! There isn't any other way to swing it, but the Ravens struck out with this deal. It doesn't happen often, but this could be Foxworth's last stunt in the NFL. Is this the time where I say I was wrong about Foxworth when I tried defending him?
[/quote]

ill always defend Foxworth

[jimmypowder]

Foxworth seems to be a great person but
he is not a good corner .

I wish him well and hope he suceeds in whatever he does . Acl tears are very fickle .
I hope he cones back next year and plays in the
NFL just not with us .

[lowrider]

[quote name='Ravensstrike4424' timestamp='1317248096' post='808019']

ill always defend Foxworth
[/quote]
Well I respect your loyalty, and I guess Foxworth couldn't help the injuries that he had. But he was a bust. And there is no other way to put it.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Ha a few things here. Everybody knew where I stood on this Fox bit and caught my share of grief and people calling me an idiot and blah blah blah. I just want to know how nobody saw this coming. And I dont see anymore finger pointing about those who said to cut him are idiots, it looks like it would have made us a little richer and might still have one of those pre season standouts(like Josh Bynes considering Ellerbe's status).

And for those who are saying the off season hurt him.....what?!? no he hurt himself instead of traipsing around in a suit and tie he should have been in an ice tank, or in basketball shorts and a t-shirt rehabbing his knee, The re-certification would have gotten done without him and he would have a legit shot at getting better. It seems to me his priorities were not that of a team first mentality.

And again for the ones who are saying give him a break, seriously....why? Because he caught a bad break and we decided to take too long to realize it was probably over for him, now we are stuck footing the bill for a guy who gets to sit around , do nothing, and collect a pay check. this is a business and that is a very stupid business decision.

All that being said he is a classy human being which is something to be valued considering the current state of NFL player mishaps. I wish him the best of luck in life and in football.....for another team.

[The Raven]

It's probably for the best. I think he/we rushed him back to the field before he was ready. I'm not sure if we should of put him on the field before he was 100%.

On the Burgess signing, we need LB depth I guess. Ellerbe's hurt, and Burgess is a STer. To the people mad about that, because it hurts Kindle's situation: Kindle needs to play better if he wants to get on the field. I like him a lot, but Harbs is gonna play the better player. Burgess is a good STer.

[plesiosaur]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1317225246' post='807476']
I guess this is a move we should have seen coming. [b]Foxworth was attempting to be a lawyer during the off-season instead of being a football player.[/b]
[/quote]

It's called being a union rep and is the reason that every other guy on the field every week is playing now.

[codizzle]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1317250795' post='808060']
Ha a few things here. Everybody knew where I stood on this Fox bit and caught my share of grief and people calling me an idiot and blah blah blah. I just want to know how nobody saw this coming. And I dont see anymore finger pointing about those who said to cut him are idiots, it looks like it would have made us a little richer and might still have one of those pre season standouts(like Josh Bynes considering Ellerbe's status).

And for those who are saying the off season hurt him.....what?!? no he hurt himself instead of traipsing around in a suit and tie he should have been in an ice tank, or in basketball shorts and a t-shirt rehabbing his knee, The re-certification would have gotten done without him and he would have a legit shot at getting better. It seems to me his priorities were not that of a team first mentality.

And again for the ones who are saying give him a break, seriously....why? Because he caught a bad break and we decided to take too long to realize it was probably over for him, now we are stuck footing the bill for a guy who gets to sit around , do nothing, and collect a pay check. this is a business and that is a very stupid business decision.

All that being said he is a classy human being which is something to be valued considering the current state of NFL player mishaps. I wish him the best of luck in life and in football.....for another team.
[/quote]
i dont necessarily disagree with ur stance.. Just mwntioning that fox was key in negotiations and was widely credited for helping in the completion of the deal so dont belittle his offseason choices

[lowrider]

I didn't want to make a new thread about this but....

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-jsmith-on-track-to-return-after-bye-week-20110928,0,4270398.story

Jimmy smith isn't wearing a protective boot anymore. Cb depth should be alright when he returns

[FerrariFan87]

Foxy was probably the worst FA signing in Ozzie's spectacular tenure in terms of $ paid and return on that investment... oh well, you can't hit them all.

[The Raven]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1317297873' post='808394']
Foxy was probably the worst FA signing in Ozzie's spectacular tenure in terms of $ paid and return on that investment... oh well, you can't hit them all.
[/quote]

I definitely can't say he was the worst FA signing. Ok, yeah, we paid him a bit too much money. But he's lightyears better than the other CBs we had on the roster at the time. Good signing imo, too expensive though, and we got burned by his injury.

[lowrider]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317298029' post='808395']

I definitely can't say he was the worst FA signing. Ok, yeah, we paid him a bit too much money. But he's lightyears better than the other CBs we had on the roster at the time. Good signing imo, too expensive though, and we got burned by his injury.
[/quote]
I agree. It's tough to say that Foxworth was a bust because an injury. It's not like he was just terrible and didn't live up to his contract. He got hurt and neither Ozzie or Foxworth could help that. But lesson learned:

[b]This is why you don't try to buy teams. [/b]


Edit: I have definitely contradicted myself in this thread saying Foxworth is a bust, but then I say he isn't. I think I would label Foxworth's contract as a mistake over a bust. A bust is more of someone who doesn't live up to their contract with their lack of play. Foxworth was still proving himself before he got hurt. Injuries are something no one can prevent.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1317271828' post='808324']
i dont necessarily disagree with ur stance.. Just mwntioning that fox was key in negotiations and was widely credited for helping in the completion of the deal so dont belittle his offseason choices
[/quote]

I am not belittling I am sure that he did play an important role, however :

First and foremost this guy is a Raven, he is a member of the best team in the league. That should have been priority number one. We are tough on our players, but for the one who are a team first guy (Ogden, Lewis, Reed, etc) are legends in the fans minds and we tell our children about them. Fox however did not show me this while he was walking around in a suit instead of trying to get better so he can contribute to this team. I did not want to say this in the offseason because I had no idea what his training regiment like, but looking at it now ?I think he could have worked a little harder.

Second there are a number of players who could have done what he did during the lockout. Fitz could have because he is a great player, a team player, and well spoken. Instead he was trying to get on the same page with whatever rag tag QB the cards shafted him with. That is teh type of dedication I wanted to see, but I thought maybe he was super human and did both with equal zeal, I was wrong. It does not look like he put into it what I would expect out of a ravens player.

[codizzle]

I hear ya and nothing ur saying is wrong but at the end of the day... We are talking about a serious injury that takes time to come back from.. Not everyones body is the same and it is quite possible that he may never fully heal

[Alexir]

So according to rotoworld.com, Kindle hasn't been activated the last 3 games because Harbaugh believes he isn't better than anyone he has activated....

All this time I blamed Kruger for not playing and living up to his 2nd round draft status but it was his Anal special teams head coach the whole time. Looks like I have to put up with it for Kindle as well...

Kruger/Kindle beats JJ/Kruger IMO.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1317309787' post='808501']
So according to rotoworld.com, Kindle hasn't been activated the last 3 games because Harbaugh believes he isn't better than anyone he has activated....

All this time I blamed Kruger for not playing and living up to his 2nd round draft status but it was his Anal special teams head coach the whole time. Looks like I have to put up with it for Kindle as well...

Kruger/Kindle beats JJ/Kruger IMO.
[/quote]

Or, Kindle should be a better player.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317310721' post='808517']

Or, Kindle should be a better player.
[/quote]

I agree. I think Kindle has all of the talent in the world and is going to be a great player but essentially he is a rookie. I know much is said about taking mental reps which is great however it pales in comparison to real reps.

I would hope that coach puts the best players on the field, if not then that kind of undermines what I think of the rest of the coaching staff, so I choose to believe he does. SO maybe kindle is gun shy perhaps, knowing that one hit could end it for him. There has to be a reason.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1317312721' post='808547']

I agree. I think Kindle has all of the talent in the world and is going to be a great player but essentially he is a rookie. I know much is said about taking mental reps which is great however it pales in comparison to real reps.

I would hope that coach puts the best players on the field, if not then that kind of undermines what I think of the rest of the coaching staff, so I choose to believe he does. SO maybe kindle is gun shy perhaps, knowing that one hit could end it for him. There has to be a reason.
[/quote]

I think he's still a little gunshy. I watched him in the preseason, and he didn't look like the Kindle from Texas. He played like a wildman, with a reckless abandon on the field, but I didn't really see that in the preseason. He used to be a reckless, high energy dude, but I didn't see it. He's got potential, but he's probably gun shy and/or rusty.

[colljb9]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1317298912' post='808400']
I agree. It's tough to say that Foxworth was a bust because an injury. It's not like he was just terrible and didn't live up to his contract. He got hurt and neither Ozzie or Foxworth could help that. But lesson learned:

[b]This is why you don't try to buy teams. [/b]


Edit: I have definitely contradicted myself in this thread saying Foxworth is a bust, but then I say he isn't. I think I would label Foxworth's contract as a mistake over a bust. A bust is more of someone who doesn't live up to their contract with their lack of play. Foxworth was still proving himself before he got hurt. Injuries are something no one can prevent.
[/quote]

I agree here with your thought on foxworth not being a bust. Jamarcus Russell was a bust, he played 15 games his second season and 12 his third season and just flat out sucked. Foxworth did not flat out stink for the ravens, he just got injured but before that he had a very good 2009 season. With that being said, with our youth movement all over the field we may have to turn our experienced guys over to carr and webb and let williams, brown, smith, and gorrer start to gain experience. We'll see what happens in the draft but im not so sure we want to go after a cornerback in the draft as we have some other very pressing needs to address.

[Gordo52]

Were lucky were playing Sanchez and then have a bye. CBs pretty thin

[Alexir]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317310721' post='808517']

Or, Kindle should be a better player.
[/quote]

Like I said about Torrey Smith, you gotta get him more playing time to see who he is as a player. Gotta give him real action playing time. From what I saw in pre season, he was a much better tackler than JJ has been this regular season and he almost blocked 2 punts?!

Tell me why Prescott Burgess or Kris Wilson should have a spot over him?

You get your second round picks active for game day. Simple as that. We definitely could of used a pass rusher versus Titans and we will need fresh legs down the road as well.

[hawkprey]

Everyone was fine paying Asomugha 20 million to come here, but now a few million too much and Foxy was a bust? He did his job here and will continue to do so when healthy. We'll need him next year. Until then, YOU'RE not the ones signing his check, so what is everyone worried about?

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1317349397' post='809051']
Everyone was fine paying Asomugha 20 million to come here, but now a few million too much and Foxy was a bust? He did his job here and will continue to do so when healthy. We'll need him next year. Until then, YOU'RE not the ones signing his check, so what is everyone worried about?
[/quote]

I dont know who threw out 20, 12 was the most common figure I heard. And it is ASOMOUGHA not a guy who was just average at teh end of the day. And a few million in cap could let us sign someone who is actually useful.

He will not continue to do his job because he will be gone next year, there is no way that the FO is satisfied with the return on their investment.

And technically we are signing his check every time we buy tickets, jersey's, hats, shirts, and so on. I dont think Bisciotti is shelling it our from his own pocket.

An we are worried because he has been a terrible signing thus far, and we could have had more cap space even if we weren't going to use it we could have maybe hammered something out with rice for an additional 7 mil a year if fox was not here.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1317349144' post='809045']


Like I said about Torrey Smith, you gotta get him more playing time to see who he is as a player. Gotta give him real action playing time. From what I saw in pre season, he was a much better tackler than JJ has been this regular season and he almost blocked 2 punts?!

Tell me why Prescott Burgess or Kris Wilson should have a spot over him?

You get your second round picks active for game day. Simple as that. We definitely could of used a pass rusher versus Titans and we will need fresh legs down the road as well.
[/quote]

I can understand where you are coming from, but the coaches are the ones who watch these guys practice, while we don't get that benefit. I want to see Kindle out there too, but you have to remember he was away from football for a while and he still has some communication issues on the field because he lost some hearing.

If he starts practicing better and shows that 1) he won't be a liability on the field because he knows the playbook and can excel in his role in it and 2) that he can contribute to the team on ST. Fans hate ST, but when you only field 46 active players its backups that have to get out there.

[The Raven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1317364278' post='809134']
I can understand where you are coming from, but the coaches are the ones who watch these guys practice, while we don't get that benefit. I want to see Kindle out there too, but you have to remember he was away from football for a while and he still has some communication issues on the field because he lost some hearing.

If he starts practicing better and shows that 1) he won't be a liability on the field because he knows the playbook and can excel in his role in it and 2) that he can contribute to the team on ST. Fans hate ST, but when you only field 46 active players its backups that have to get out there.
[/quote]

Exactly. Like I've said countless times before, if the coaches can't trust you in practice, why would they trust you in a game? I honestly did not hear much about Kindle in TC other than he was there. I heard Torrey's name a lot, I heard McPhee's, I heard Jones, I heard a lot of names. But not a lot of Kindle.

Whether you like it or not, the coaches don't think Kindle is valuable enough to be activated for games. They played him in the PS, and he did nothing spectacular aside from the almost blocked punts. I do not see the same Sergio Kindle he was at Texas.

If Kindle was a better player, and I'm not saying he's bad, then he'd be activated. Simple. As. That. But the coaches can't make him play better by simply putting him on the field. They can't do it for him, he's gotta prove his value before he sees the field. Just sayin guys.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317439026' post='809868']

If Kindle was a better player, and I'm not saying he's bad, then he'd be activated. Simple. As. That. But the coaches can't make him play better by simply putting him on the field. They can't do it for him, he's gotta prove his value before he sees the field. Just sayin guys.
[/quote]

A little close-minded don't you think? I mean if it was that simple then T.Smith would have been inactive the last few games and we would still be calling him a project. Kruger and Kindle don't play because Suggs and JJ never leave the field.

[The Raven]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1317478359' post='809962']

A little close-minded don't you think? I mean if it was that simple then T.Smith would have been inactive the last few games and we would still be calling him a project. Kruger and Kindle don't play because Suggs and JJ never leave the field.
[/quote]

Not quite close-minded. I actually heard Torrey's name in TC. Kindle's name was very [i]rarely [/i]mentioned. Therefore, it seems Torrey has proven to the coaches that he's valuable to the offense. If Kindle had proven he was valuable, I think he'd be activated. But ya know, an UDFA has been activated more than Kindle. And you can say that it's only because McClellan is a "ST guy" and Harbs is a "ST coach", but McClellan played solid defense all TC and all PS.

Kindle can be a good player, but he's gotta help himself.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317485824' post='810024']

Not quite close-minded. I actually heard Torrey's name in TC. Kindle's name was very [i]rarely [/i]mentioned. Therefore, it seems Torrey has proven to the coaches that he's valuable to the offense. If Kindle had proven he was valuable, I think he'd be activated. But ya know, an UDFA has been activated more than Kindle. And you can say that it's only because McClellan is a "ST guy" and Harbs is a "ST coach", but McClellan played solid defense all TC and all PS.

Kindle can be a good player, but he's gotta help himself.
[/quote]
I didnt see McClellan have a single hurry all preseason or even make an actual play.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1317506137' post='810260']
I didnt see McClellan have a single hurry all preseason or even make an actual play.
[/quote]

I didn't see Kindle do it either..... How many sacks did he have? Zero, right?

at least I heard McClellan's name in TC.