Officially Renouncing My Cam "hater" Status

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Raven146' timestamp='1317075062' post='806026']

[b]I agree the numbers look great until you back out the 53 yds on 1 play. Which means the rest of the game Ray rushed 7 times for an average of 3. 9 yds per carry. Still good .[/b]

But we were 6 for 15 on 3rd downs.

and although we had 3 FG's there was no additional offensive scoring after the first quarter. That is saying a lot about the offense.
[/quote]

Using that logic, that means we get one 53-yard play every 8 Rice touches. So there's still reason to run it more.

However, the fact that we passed so often made the run game look better. Running more wouldn't have given us that same productivity, but it also could've made the passing game more productive.

That's not how Cam calls plays. He calls the same type of play until it stops working.

[Mick0311]

I'm going to wait until he strings a few together before I jump on the fan club.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='jt3751' timestamp='1317071406' post='805954']


[b]Who [size=4]do[/size] we blame for this[/b]?

I think this was the most frustrating 5 minutes of football I have ever watched. It was like nobody wearing purple could see the clock or scoreboard.

I have to say I thought Cam had turned the corner after week 1, but he had to have had a role in last weeks debacle. Even after this week(he did well!), still don't trust his skills or judgement. When he puts a season together(read consistency!), I'll recant.
[/quote]

Agreed, and you can blame Cam or Harb. for that 5 min run off then you can blame Flacco and then you can blame the Offense.

[ravensdfan]

I didn't like his initial game plan last week. It was weak. I didn't like that we didn't make any half time adjustments last week when we were getting our butts kicked.

I thought he called a good game week 1. I could be wrong, but even in Flacco's presser, I get the feeling this pass first attack this week was more on Joe than Cam but I'll give Cam the credit.

Still not turning in my Cam Haters Club card just yet though. I want to see some consistency. I want to see him actually make some half time adjustments when warranted. We've had two games where we did not really need to make adjustments and one where we desperately needed to and didn't. So, while I'll give him credit for his two games that I felt had great game plans I'm not ready to say he's doing a great job. It is all about the adjusting when necessary that has always been my big issue with Cam and with only these 3 games to judge by it seems his inability to adjust still exists.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1317048435' post='805490']
[b]I've been a Cam hater on and off. [/b]

I still believe that we need to wait until the end of the season to look at the whole picture. (The same thing for all questionable topics instead of having weekly up and down threads).

A lot can change between now and December.

Cam called an awesome game yesterday. The play calls were working. He has it in him (especially when the O-Line plays great). But I want to see Cam make mid game adjustments effectively when we are struggling.
[/quote]


Not me buddy, ive been a Cam Hater since day one and it will stay that way. More than likely still when the season is over even if we kill it on the Offense. He is just one of those Coaches that i cant get behind. Too little too late.

[Ravens Beast]

I'm not yet convinced of Cam. I will hold my hater card until he proves that he can adjust when we are down.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Raven146' timestamp='1317075062' post='806026']



I agree the numbers look great until you back out the 53 yds on 1 play. Which means the rest of the game Ray rushed 7 times for an average of 3. 9 yds per carry. Still good .

But we were 6 for 15 on 3rd downs.

and although we had 3 FG's there was no additional offensive scoring after the first quarter. That is saying a lot about the offense.
[/quote]


Agreed , i thought i was the only one thinking that. The Offense went vanilla but not quite as bad as seasons past, they were still going down the field but couldnt get the TDs and you know as well as i do, you can not let off on a good team even with a 21 point lead. Case in point, the Stealers play off, nuff said. I dont think i will ever forget that game, i remember it like it was yesterday and honestly still pissed about it. Just cant let it go. The only thing that made me feel better was when the Stealers lost the SB.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Ravens Beast' timestamp='1317076655' post='806055']
I'm not yet convinced of Cam. I will hold my hater card until he proves that he can adjust when we are down.
[/quote]


Dont hold you breath for that. I dont think he will ever change. Just look at his Coaching history from the Chargers and Dolphins. Everyone on the forums of those teams complain about the Exact same thing that we ve been complaining about. Thats why i wont change my mind on him.

[The Raven]

Until you can prove, with actual proof by the way, not silly assumptions, that Flacco and Harbaugh are calling the plays, that is an invalid argument. How many QB's actually call the plays? Manning? Who else? How many HC's actually call the plays? BB, and who?

If I can get proof, I'll concede defeat, but I need actual proof. Not silly assumptions and opinions. Cam is in fact capable of calling an offense. He has weapons and an oline now. Why are we bashing our OC after we just set the franchise record for most yards in a game? That's a mystery! [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/th_327321_Spy_23x22.gif[/img]

[Natty Boh]

I wouldn't classify myself as a Cam "hater" but a doubter perhaps. I would love nothing else for Cam to prove me wrong the rest of the season but I will reserve my judgement on a week to week basis with Cam still.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317078547' post='806097']
Until you can prove, with actual proof by the way, not silly assumptions, that Flacco and Harbaugh are calling the plays, that is an invalid argument. How many QB's actually call the plays? Manning? Who else? How many HC's actually call the plays? BB, and who?

If I can get proof, I'll concede defeat, but I need actual proof. Not silly assumptions and opinions. Cam is in fact capable of calling an offense. He has weapons and an oline now. Why are we bashing our OC after we just set the franchise record for most yards in a game? That's a mystery! [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/th_327321_Spy_23x22.gif[/img]
[/quote]

You can thank the newly added speed that we have for that. Like someone above me said, it seems like Flacco was calling a lot of the plays, or at least checking out of some.

[ROH522155]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317078547' post='806097']
Until you can prove, with actual proof by the way, not silly assumptions, that Flacco and Harbaugh are calling the plays, that is an invalid argument. How many QB's actually call the plays? Manning? Who else? How many HC's actually call the plays? BB, and who?

If I can get proof, I'll concede defeat, but I need actual proof. Not silly assumptions and opinions. Cam is in fact capable of calling an offense. He has weapons and an oline now. Why are we bashing our OC after we just set the franchise record for most yards in a game? That's a mystery! [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/th_327321_Spy_23x22.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Well it's pretty obvious to me. We had a good offensive gameplan yesterday with excellent playcalling so there's simply NO WAY it was Cam. Ipso facto, Joe and Harbs must've been calling the plays. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Ok I am pretty sure anybody here knows where I stand on Cam, and even after week 1 gave him credit but still said his entire body of work left a lot to be desired. Still going to need more time 3 years or 3 games (really only 2 in my opinion but for argument sake we will go with 3). After this season I would only be able to tell you if I wanted a new coordinator only by the options that were still available. I am not ready to start drinking the cool aid yet. If we continue this pace throughout the season (nobody is perfect so he will get his mulligan's) then maybe, but as somebody stated it may be too little too late. Again though going to need a more long term picture and complete body of work before I can make a decision on would ME personally want to keep him around.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1317080138' post='806128']

You can thank the newly added speed that we have for that. Like someone above me said, it seems like Flacco was calling a lot of the plays, or at least checking out of some.
[/quote]

Or, you can criticize the lack of speed last year for our lack of offense, not the playcaller. Name ONE offensive coordinator that works with slow receivers like Boldin, Mason, and Housh, and has decent offensive production. Name ONE.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317083621' post='806169']

Or, you can criticize the lack of speed last year for our lack of offense, not the playcaller. Name ONE offensive coordinator that works with slow receivers like Boldin, Mason, and Housh, and has decent offensive production. Name ONE.[/quote]

Breaking the records they did yesterday was due to our WR's hitting home run's, taking it to the house.

To answer your question though, Bill O'Brien. He has Deion Branch and Chad Ochocinco, and before you mention Wes Welker and Julian Edelman, we had David Reed and Donte' Stallworth so the lack of speed isn't an excuse. We only used Stallworth on useless plays, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of fans will agree with me on the notion that Cam Cameron doesn't know how to utilize his offensive weapons. There you go, bud.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1317086544' post='806196']
Breaking the records they did yesterday was due to our WR's hitting home run's, taking it to the house.

To answer your question though, Bill O'Brien. He has Deion Branch and Chad Ochocinco, and before you mention Wes Welker and Julian Edelman, we had David Reed and Donte' Stallworth so the lack of speed isn't an excuse. We only used Stallworth on useless plays, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of fans will agree with me on the notion that Cam Cameron doesn't know how to utilize his offensive weapons. There you go, bud.
[/quote]

Deion is a speedster, and we all know Billy B calls the shots in NE. Ochocinco isn't exactly [i]slow[/i] either.

Now, here's some logic that I've thought of. There must've been some crazy reason, that Torrey Smith and Doss have already seen more reps than Stallworth. They're must be some explanation, right? I mean, he's playing an unproven rookie WR this year, but not the proven vet last year? I think he might have know something we didn't, but that's just a theory.

Btw, how many catches did Stallworth have against us in the PS? How are his stats lookin so far this season? 2 for 16 yards? Thats an 8 ypc avg. Now I haven't watched much redskins football, but 2 for 16 isn't exactly a deep threat. Hmmm...

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317087589' post='806212']

Deion is a speedster, and we all know Billy B calls the shots in NE. Ochocinco isn't exactly [i]slow[/i] either.

Now, here's some logic that I've thought of. There must've been some crazy reason, that Torrey Smith and Doss have already seen more reps than Stallworth. They're must be some explanation, right? I mean, he's playing an unproven rookie WR this year, but not the proven vet last year? I think he might have know something we didn't, but that's just a theory.

Btw, how many catches did Stallworth have against us in the PS? How are his stats lookin so far this season? 2 for 16 yards? Thats an 8 ypc avg. Now I haven't watched much redskins football, but 2 for 16 isn't exactly a deep threat. Hmmm...[/quote]

LOL, Deion is a speedster? He ran a 4.47 at the combine, and Ochocinco ran a 4.5. I've never heard anyone call either WR "fast", more like "elusive", and because of NE's diverse offense and play calling, Branch is sent deep a lot much like Boldin in our offense. But you wouldn't call Boldin a speedster, would you?

We also have no choice this year but to play the rookies, and I'm glad it's come down to that. I was content starting Torrey Smith before we got Evans, but we all saw how that worked out. You told me to name an OC who deals with slow WR's and still succeeds, and I did. Just give it up dude.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1317088326' post='806220']
LOL, Deion is a speedster? He ran a 4.47 at the combine, and Ochocinco ran a 4.5. I've never heard anyone call either WR "fast", more like "elusive", and because of NE's diverse offense and play calling, Branch is sent deep a lot much like Boldin in our offense. But you wouldn't call Boldin a speedster, would you?

We also have no choice this year but to play the rookies, and I'm glad it's come down to that. I was content starting Torrey Smith before we got Evans, but we all saw how that worked out. You told me to name an OC who deals with slow WR's and still succeeds, and I did. Just give it up dude.
[/quote]

What, we didn't have a choice to play him last year? I wouldn't say any of NE's WRs are slow, and I don't wanna start this debate again, but there is a difference between combine speed and football speed. Don't tell me to give it up man. You brought up Stallworth, but have neglected to comment on his stats, or lack thereof this season. I guess Cam and Harbs knew something we didn't. Like I said, there must be some odd reason we played Torrey this year, and not Stalls last year... Obviously, they trust Torrey more than they trusted Stallworth

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317088700' post='806226']

What, we didn't have a choice to play him last year? I wouldn't say any of NE's WRs are slow, and I don't wanna start this debate again, but there is a difference between combine speed and football speed. Don't tell me to give it up man. You brought up Stallworth, but have neglected to comment on his stats, or lack thereof this season. I guess Cam and Harbs knew something we didn't. Like I said, there must be some odd reason we played Torrey this year, and not Stalls last year... Obviously, they trust Torrey more than they trusted Stallworth[/quote]

I know that game speed and combine speed is different, but you called Deion a speedster. He's never been a speedster, ever. Neither has Ochocinco. I don't even know what you expect me to say about Donte'. He's not doing anything in Washington, but has he ever lived up to his first round pick? I don't think so. We didn't play him last year because Boldin, Mason, Housh, Heap and Dickson saw most of the receptions, along with Rice. When Donte' did see the field, he ran an end-around. Who's fault is that? Oh yea, Cam's. The long catch he did have was against the Steelers, so obviously he still has some speed in him. Your points are running low.

[Alexir]

I have faith in the players but I need Cam to do this again next week (maybe not same magnitude) but I need it to happen a little bit more consistently before I apologize and trust him. Let's see how we do against Jets Defense and Texans Defense.

[flynismo]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1317088700' post='806226']
You brought up Stallworth, but have neglected to comment on his stats, or lack thereof this season. I guess Cam and Harbs knew something we didn't. Like I said, there must be some odd reason we played Torrey this year, and not Stalls last year... Obviously, they trust Torrey more than they trusted Stallworth
[/quote]


Not to mention that playing across from Moss in 2007, and having Brady as his QB, Stalls still did nothing. It is very possible that Stallworth wasn't what we thought/hoped he was or could be for us.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1317086544' post='806196']
Breaking the records they did yesterday was due to our WR's hitting home run's, taking it to the house.

To answer your question though, Bill O'Brien. He has Deion Branch and Chad Ochocinco, and before you mention Wes Welker and Julian Edelman, we had David Reed and Donte' Stallworth so the lack of speed isn't an excuse. We only used Stallworth on useless plays, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of fans will agree with me on the notion that Cam Cameron doesn't know how to utilize his offensive weapons. There you go, bud.
[/quote]


i dont think it is so much that cam doesnt know how to use his players as it is him trying to force his players to adjust to his schemes.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1317098642' post='806322']


i dont think it is so much that cam doesnt know how to use his players as it is him trying to force his players to adjust to his schemes.
[/quote]

This, on gameday the only adjustments seem to be a rigid adherence to the offensive scheme.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1317086544' post='806196']
Breaking the records they did yesterday was due to our WR's hitting home run's, taking it to the house.

To answer your question though, Bill O'Brien. He has Deion Branch and Chad Ochocinco, and before you mention Wes Welker and Julian Edelman, we had David Reed and Donte' Stallworth so the lack of speed isn't an excuse. We only used Stallworth on useless plays, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of fans will agree with me on the[b] notion that Cam Cameron doesn't know how to utilize his offensive weapons. There you go, bud.[/b]
[/quote]

Im with you on that man, been saying that for a long time now. Cam just doesnt get it and never will. Doesnt matter what anyone thinks anyways because he is either going to be here next yr or not. This is his last chance to prove himself though and offensive weapons are not an excuse. They werent an excuse last yr either and thats why the Cam hater thing starting popping up because before we really didnt have anyone except Mason and Heap before last season. And now this season we have 2 great TE and a crap load of Great wrers with great hands and speed plus toughness.

Side note. Im really liking this Team on Offense and Defense. They can only get better.

[jaege]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1317010679' post='805177']



That's exactly my point about all the opinions on Cam. If we win the SB with him as our OC, people are still unhappy with being stuck with the guy who would have helped us get there in the first place. People can improve!!
[/quote]

Its not about what we have done, or what we havent done. Its what we could have done based upon the teams (perceived) talent but failed to do, season after season.

I agree that its not just the OC that wins or loses the games for us, but he does play a role, particularly when we saw (last season) the same plays fail time after time without any adjustment being made. It is not up to the players to adjust the plays. That is up to coaches.

Of course that was last season, but we are only three games into this season. I will wait and see. If we keep playing the wway we did against the Steelers and the Rams, then I will agree with the OP. Thus far, two games is not enough to change an opinion that was formed over three seasons.

[ravenanchors]

After the Titans fiasco, I don't think Cam has improved his play calling.
The titans game was a perfect example of Cams inability to create a game plan and adjust the plan during the game to account for the unexpected.

Everyone wants to say that the Rams game was a great game, but the only difference between the Rams and Titans game was Torrey.

Cams game plan for the Rams was to tell Torrey to run as fast as you can and Joe will throw you the ball. That was great but without Torrey, it was the same old game plan.
Cam kept doing the same thing repeatedly, even though it is not working. (I believe that is the definition of insanity) There was no scoring in the second half but there were a lot of throws and yards. Not much in the way of running. The Ravens should have been able to score at will against the Rams even without Torrey. Joe to Torrey worked because it caught the Rams off guard.

Just want to point out that the Ravens had the same score for the Steelers but only half the yards. Throwing alot is not a sure fire way to win. They need to throw when the time is right. Most of the teams that have the highest yards throwing each week lose because there is an imbalance in the offensive attack.

Last year it was the same thing. Run Ray Rice up the middle, over and over even if it was getting us nowhere.

There was no half-time adjustment during the Rams game. Just keep throwing the ball.
I'm not saying that it wasn't alot of fun to watch but from a strategy perspective and for long term game planning, you cannot have just 1 player scoring. If Cam relies on this strategy every game, the best you can hope for is to break even. I don't think this will get the ravens to the superbowl.

Week 3 - top 5 passing leaders 2 out of 5 lost
Week 2 - top 5 passing leaders 2 out of 5 lost
Week 1 - top 5 passing leaders 4 out of 5 lost

[Ravensstrike4424]

this should be closed a bit to heated

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='Ravensstrike4424' timestamp='1317125705' post='806399']
this should be closed a bit to heated
[/quote]

Heated is fine. We actually enjoy a good heated discussion now and then. As longs as posters don't start attacking each other, we're good.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Raven146' timestamp='1317075062' post='806026']



I agree the numbers look great until you back out the 53 yds on 1 play. Which means the rest of the game Ray rushed 7 times for an average of 3. 9 yds per carry. Still good .

But we were 6 for 15 on 3rd downs.

and although we had 3 FG's [u][b]there was no additional offensive scoring after the first quarter[/b][/u]. [b]That is saying a lot about the offense.[/b]
[/quote]

that is what i am saying!

while i absolutely love how we played in the 1st qrtr...AFTER THAT?? what did our offense do? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! sure, the FGs added to our win BUT the stark reality is that after we scored 3 TDs in the 1st qrtr....our offense went limp and none productive in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th qrtrs. smh! to me...that is unacceptable! we need to learn how to put up TDs to the very end! sure, the cowboys just beat the skins last night off of nothing but FGs. but we are the Baltimore Ravens!! not the cowboys! even Joe said in his presser that this is a passing league and teams that are winning are passing and scoring TDs. let's get it going fellas!

~Mili

[flynismo]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1317126718' post='806401']

that is what i am saying!

while i absolutely love how we played in the 1st qrtr...AFTER THAT?? what did our offense do? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! sure, the FGs added to our win BUT the stark reality is that after we scored 3 TDs in the 1st qrtr....our offense went limp and none productive in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th qrtrs. smh! to me...that is unacceptable! we need to learn how to put up TDs to the very end! sure, the cowboys just beat the skins last night off of nothing but FGs. but we are the Baltimore Ravens!! not the cowboys! even Joe said in his presser that this is a passing league and teams that are winning are passing and scoring TDs. let's get it going fellas!

~Mili
[/quote]


That is true, but it wasn't Cam's fault. Boldin dropped a pair of TD passes...so Cam put our offense in position to score, but we failed to execute.