Use Extra Cap For Asante This Year, Or Our Own Fa's Next Year?

[Blex64]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1316645933' post='800700']


I get it, I just hope Webb, Williams, Smith and Brown can get it done... As for Carr and Fox... lets just say I wish we kept Wilson and dumped BOTH of them. I guess Im tired of having the January heart ache, plus Ed and Ray may not get another shot... mainly Ed.\, he's never had a ring. Greatest saftey of all times!
[/quote]

Carr's perfectly fine at CB. Foxworth will be fine as well once his knee is back to normal. The problem is were getting wrecked by the injury bug. You're panicking after one game.

The problem with Wilson wasn't money, that's not why we lost him.

Our secondary is perfectly fine. People just need to calm down.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

I'm all for the youth movement, but I think many will change there minds down the road. Yes we need to let the rooks show what they can do,but again foxy is not 100%, jimmy is a rook hasn't played in a real game and people want to labeled him as a shut down already. This is Cary first year starting he needs time to gain experience and get better. Carr is only good as nickel/dime. And Webb shows sparks at times but gets burnt a lot aswell. Too many ?? Marks for our cbs its kind of worrying. The front office new that was one of our weaknesses and IMO didn't take care of it. JMO, so please don't attack me for being concerned.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1316647219' post='800721']
You and me both bro... Its a sad situation in the secondary when they expect a rookie to be a #1 lockdown guy... Its said that even Revis island took 3-4 years... I just hope Ozzie surprises us just one more time.

The way our [pass rush looked, Hasselbeck had ALL day [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/th_gardensmiley.gif[/img]
[/quote]

So are you going to propose we trade our draft picks away every time we lose a game?

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316649259' post='800746']

Carr's perfectly fine at CB. Foxworth will be fine as well once his knee is back to normal. The problem is were getting wrecked by the injury bug. You're panicking after one game.

The problem with Wilson wasn't money, that's not why we lost him.

Our secondary is perfectly fine. People just need to calm down.
[/quote]

Dude, no disrespect but this is the craziest thing Ive heard... Is that you Harbaugh??? How is it we are "panicking"? How is our secondary fine?

Carr is fine at CB?????? REALLY!? Carr is fine at CB as long as he isn't on the field! I'll agree to that! Fox and Carr are garbage sir, a blind man can see this.

In all fairness, Carr is only a mediocre nickle/dime guy, Fox need's to go work for the Baltimore Sun... He's been burnt so many times it's down right disgraceful! Which games are you watching?

Cary and Jimmy have zero experiencce and Webb (although a great tackler/good blitzer) is a nickle/dime guy STRICTLY. We have no legit CB at this time...

Cmon Oz, we need a proven vet back there... we want that ring THIS year!!!

[Purple Nurple]

[quote name='Sunday QB' timestamp='1316639662' post='800563']
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][size=4]We need him now, bring him here.[/size][/font]
[/quote]
So eloquent...... Oh wait, it's just the font. nm.

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1316654298' post='800794']

So are you going to propose we trade our draft picks away every time we lose a game?
[/quote]

Ok, all that sarcasm is unecessary dude, but once again Ill say it s-l-o-w this time just for you... I propose we trade for a proven veteran cb[b] immediately[/b]! This hole is big enough to sink our ship, and Hasselbeck put on a workshop for the league to blue print. Unless you are also blind, you should know this as well. This issue is not new its the #1 issue that's kept us from advancing since Harbaugh's been here.

How was that?

[lowrider]

Can't buy a team. And the problems with our team went beyond just one position last game. It was every position that was the problem. I think we have to kind of wait it out until Jimmy comes back. To build a great team for years, you have to look beyond just one year. Otherwise, you get yourself in a position like the Redskins did and have to rebuild every 5 years.

Not only that there is problems with Samuel. He struggled with injuries last year, and he isn't the biggest guy so he can't defend the big wide receivers....... aka more of the same. He can play, but he is a home run hitter and he strikes out. We need consistency, which will have to wait until Jimmy comes backs

[The Raven]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1316654992' post='800804']
[b]Can't buy a team.[/b] And the problems with our team went beyond just one position last game. It was every position that was the problem. I think we have to kind of wait it out until Jimmy comes back. To build a great team for years, you have to look beyond just one year. Otherwise, you get yourself in a position like the Redskins did and have to rebuild every 5 years.

Not only that there is problems with Samuel. He struggled with injuries last year, and he isn't the biggest guy so he can't defend the big wide receivers....... aka more of the same. He can play, but he is a home run hitter and he strikes out. We need consistency, which will have to wait until Jimmy comes backs
[/quote]

So true. Just ask Dan Snyder how successful he is buying a team every year. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]

[hawkprey]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1316654987' post='800803']

Ok, all that sarcasm is unecessary dude, but once again Ill say it s-l-o-w this time just for you... I propose we trade for a proven veteran cb[b] immediately[/b]! This hole is big enough to sink our ship, and Hasselbeck put on a workshop for the league to blue print. Unless you are also blind, you should know this as well. This issue is not new its the #1 issue that's kept us from advancing since Harbaugh's been here.

How was that?
[/quote]

So now we have a hole in our secondary that only throwing picks at Asante can fill, when 3 of our guys are either out or recovering from injury? How about not cut anyone, not lose any picks, not waste any money, and let the organization bounce back from ONE freaking loss.

[lowrider]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316655308' post='800808']

So true. Just ask Dan Snyder how successful he is buying a team every year. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]
[/quote]
Or Jerry Jones. Or look at the Eagles and how many holes they have in their team and they bought the entire free agency pool. Success is in the draft. We already gave up our 4th for Evans. We are not bound to give up a 2nd for Samuel

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1316654992' post='800804']
Can't buy a team. And the problems with our team went beyond just one position last game. It was every position that was the problem. I think we have to kind of wait it out until Jimmy comes back. To build a great team for years, you have to look beyond just one year. Otherwise, you get yourself in a position like the Redskins did and have to rebuild every 5 years.

Not only that there is problems with Samuel. He struggled with injuries last year, and he isn't the biggest guy so he can't defend the big wide receivers....... aka more of the same. He can play, but he is a home run hitter and he strikes out. We need consistency, which will have to wait until Jimmy comes backs
[/quote]

I appreciate intelligent dialog my friend, and yes your points are good ones... To me the top issues for our D is no pass rush and a weak secondary. I mean i am not Oz, so I cannot make this happen but I think we need to bring in someone if not Samuels... I believe we have the personnel to fix the pass rush, but to advance it would be a worthy investment to bring in a seasoned vet that can cover and help the rooks and crips... even if it's a 1 year deal. Thats just my two cents.

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1316655407' post='800810']

So now we have a hole in our secondary that only throwing picks at Asante can fill, when 3 of our guys are either out or recovering from injury? How about not cut anyone, not lose any picks, not waste any money, and let the organization bounce back from ONE freaking loss.
[/quote]

Where have you been? We ranked 21st in pass Defense, and like dead last in sacks last season... this is nothing new, AND it hasn't been addressed, so yes I suggest we address this by trading for Asante, but that is MY opinion... This move along with a few other's could improve our passing D like playing Pollard over Zibby and Kindle over JJ (especially in passing situations)...
I guess you didn't realize these were issues I take it?

[lowrider]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1316655474' post='800812']

I appreciate intelligent dialog my friend, and yes your points are good ones... To me the top issues for our D is no pass rush and a weak secondary. I mean i am not Oz, so I cannot make this happen but I think we need to bring in someone if not Samuels... I believe we have the personnel to fix the pass rush, but to advance it would be a worthy investment to bring in a seasoned vet that can cover and help the rooks and crips... even if it's a 1 year deal. Thats just my two cents.
[/quote]
Our pass rush was good against the Steelers and we got 7 turnovers. Now we were bound to dropoff from that number. But I think that it is going to be somewhere in the middle of the two weeks. Honestly, I think the Ravens just had a God awful terrible week. They didn't plan any blitzes and when they found out that the pass d wasn't working without blitzing, then they blitzed a ton of people and you can't just send numbers and hope for the best. They were unprepared. JJ said it himself that they didn't think they could blitz because Hasselback releases so early. So if they aren't disguising blitzes then the offense can pick it up. I don't think that will happen again. We have people that can blitz and cause pressure, and personally I think Kindle needs to be activated.

That being said our cornerbacks have had some health problems. Carr should be playing in the next couple weeks. Jimmy should be back somewhere after the bye in week 5. I know the Ravens are cutting it close with the corners that we got, but with Webb, Foxworth and Williams, I think that they can handle the Jets and Rams receivers. But after that, our cornerbacking crew is going to look a lot different in a couple weeks

[Blex64]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1316654499' post='800797']

Dude, no disrespect but this is the craziest thing Ive heard... Is that you Harbaugh??? How is it we are "panicking"? How is our secondary fine?[/quote]

We'll have our top corner and our hopefully future shutdown corner after our bye. Spending millions of dollars (AND draft picks) on an aging Asante Samuels who doesn't quite fit our needs is pretty much the definition of panicking.

[quote]Carr is fine at CB?????? REALLY!? Carr is fine at CB as long as he isn't on the field! I'll agree to that! Fox and Carr are garbage sir, a blind man can see this.[/quote]

Carr's fine at CB. He played well last season for us, even outside the nickel. Foxworth was playing well at the end of the 09 season, before his injury. I don't see why you don't think he'll return to form when he's fully recuperated. ACL tears are extremely serious. He's not playing poorly right now because he's not capable of it, he's playing poorly because he's being extremely cautious with his knee.

[quote]In all fairness, Carr is only a mediocre nickle/dime guy, Fox need's to go work for the Baltimore Sun... He's been burnt so many times it's down right disgraceful! Which games are you watching?[/quote]

I'm looking at both players' entire body of work not at 2 games neither have played in full. What evidence are YOU drawing off of. I'm not claiming Foxworth is playing well right now, nor do I think he should be in now if he's not feeling well, but I never argued that. Again, where are YOUR claims coming from?

[quote]Cary and Jimmy have zero experiencce and Webb (although a great tackler/good blitzer) is a nickle/dime guy STRICTLY. We have no legit CB at this time...[/quote]

Webb is not strictly a nickel/dime guy (neither is Carr, although that's definitely where he excels). He's undersized for a corner but he's also quick, and he matches up with most teams's number 2's quite well. Cary has played decently so far but needs to work on tightening his coverage. Jimmy has shown flashes of greatness, I think he'll do great even this season.

[quote]
Cmon Oz, we need a proven vet back there... we want that ring THIS year!!!
[/quote]

Oz isn't stupid enough to go out and make the absolutely atrocious moves you're suggesting. We definitely don't need them to get a ring this year.

Asante Samuels is an awful idea no matter how you spin it. I wouldn't be opposed to a stopgap FA if there were any worthwhile ones, but as others have pointed out the market is obviously thin if Frank Walker is on an active roster.

The secondary will be fine in the long run, and quite honestly I'm not too worried about it over the next couple of games. St. Louis's entire passing attack is substantially worse then Tennessee's, and I don't think I even need to mention the Sanchize.

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316656514' post='800827']

We'll have our top corner and our hopefully future shutdown corner after our bye. Spending millions of dollars (AND draft picks) on an aging Asante Samuels who doesn't quite fit our needs is pretty much the definition of panicking.



Carr's fine at CB. He played well last season for us, even outside the nickel. Foxworth was playing well at the end of the 09 season, before his injury. I don't see why you don't think he'll return to form when he's fully recuperated. ACL tears are extremely serious. He's not playing poorly right now because he's not capable of it, he's playing poorly because he's being extremely cautious with his knee.



I'm looking at both players' entire body of work not at 2 games neither have played in full. What evidence are YOU drawing off of. I'm not claiming Foxworth is playing well right now, nor do I think he should be in now if he's not feeling well, but I never argued that. Again, where are YOUR claims coming from?



Webb is not strictly a nickel/dime guy (neither is Carr, although that's definitely where he excels). He's undersized for a corner but he's also quick, and he matches up with most teams's number 2's quite well. Cary has played decently so far but needs to work on tightening his coverage. Jimmy has shown flashes of greatness, I think he'll do great even this season.



Oz isn't stupid enough to go out and make the absolutely atrocious moves you're suggesting. We definitely don't need them to get a ring this year.

Asante Samuels is an awful idea no matter how you spin it. I wouldn't be opposed to a stopgap FA if there were any worthwhile ones, but as others have pointed out the market is obviously thin if Frank Walker is on an active roster.

The secondary will be fine in the long run, and quite honestly I'm not too worried about it over the next couple of games. St. Louis's entire passing attack is substantially worse then Tennessee's, and I don't think I even need to mention the Sanchize.
[/quote]

Carr was giving 10-12 yards all last year, and was burnt severly in spite of this all last season until maybe week 12 or 13, then he stepped his game up matching up against #2 Wr's... befor that he was always a nickle/dime guy. This year whenever he has lined up on a #2 he has been beaten [b]badly[/b] (Re-watch the Preseason games whenever he is in the game against other teams #3 Wr's). In all fairness to Carr, perhaps he could improve later in the season like last year, but I hope it doesn't take that long...

Foxworth was NOT ever good. Im sorry, I cannot agree to that. EVER. His career with us before injury looked just like Sunday, I cant remember Fox ever making a big play... not even one hard hit, fumble recovery... nothing.

Webb; When I watch him play I get the feeling he will improve with more experience... He hits well and a good tackler, seems athletic enough, and what i like the most is his work ethic... you can see he's hungry so I think he will be fine with more time he just excells at the nickle/dime.

I still like the Samuels signing if we could get him even for this season... im not saying a 2nd round pick necessarily as we know Oz only pulls off the best deals... He could probably get him for a #4 and a Foxworth. Lol

[Blex64]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1316658330' post='800846']

Carr was giving 10-12 yards all last year, and was burnt severly in spite of this all last season until maybe week 12 or 13, then he stepped his game up matching up against #2 Wr's... befor that he was always a nickle/dime guy. This year whenever he has lined up on a #2 he has been beaten [b]badly[/b] (Re-watch the Preseason games whenever he is in the game against other teams #3 Wr's). In all fairness to Carr, perhaps he could improve later in the season like last year, but I hope it doesn't take that long...[/quote]

He's played poorly with a hamstring injury? NO WAY! Who'ulda thunk it?

We had the top pass defense at something like week 6 last year. Carr hasn't been the most consistent player of all time, but asking him to match up against #1's is almost unfair imo. He stepped up extemeely well and played fine. Not every CB is Champ Bailey or Darelle Revis, and I'm not saying he's a top 10 corner or anything, but he's certainly a solid contributor.

[quote]Foxworth was NOT ever good. Im sorry, I cannot agree to that. EVER. His career with us before injury looked just like Sunday, I cant remember Fox ever making a big play... not even one hard hit, fumble recovery... nothing.[/quote]

You'd be wrong. And the fact that you're judging corner play by hard hits and fumble recoveries is pretty baffling.


[quote]I still like the Samuels signing if we could get him even for this season... im not saying a 2nd round pick necessarily as we know Oz only pulls off the best deals... He could probably get him for a #4 and a Foxworth. Lol
[/quote]

And do what with him? He's not a cover corner or a shutdown corner, and his role on Philly's D is being filled here by the best ballhawk of all time. And then we get to try and find a way to get rid of him at the end of the season, nobody pursued him during the offseason for a reason.

[nyc9192]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1316654987' post='800803']

Ok, all that sarcasm is unecessary dude, but once again Ill say it s-l-o-w this time just for you... I propose we trade for a proven veteran cb[b] immediately[/b]! This hole is big enough to sink our ship, and Hasselbeck put on a workshop for the league to blue print. Unless you are also blind, you should know this as well. This issue is not new its the #1 issue that's kept us from advancing since Harbaugh's been here.

How was that?
[/quote]
Good point.Since harbs been here are secondary as far as corners go really hasn't been good at the least.

[1/28/01]

Its Samuel[s]s[/s]

[Alexir]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1316656251' post='800824']

Where have you been? We ranked 21st in pass Defense, and like dead last in sacks last season... this is nothing new, AND it hasn't been addressed, so yes I suggest we address this by trading for Asante, but that is MY opinion... This move along with a few other's could improve our passing D like playing Pollard over Zibby and Kindle over JJ (especially in passing situations)...
I guess you didn't realize these were issues I take it?
[/quote]

It was addressed in drafting Jimmy Smith, Chykie Brown, Pernell McPhee and that Ozzie knew Kindle was cleared to play. Bernard Pollard was brought in as well and chris carr was re-signed.

Ozzie did his job.

It's the coaches job to utilize these guys. Which we haven't seen. This team won't be getting many sacks if JJ keeps playing as much as he is. Asante is a little overrated, he is like DeAngelo Hall with slightly better tackling.

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1316662066' post='800864']

It was addressed in drafting Jimmy Smith, Chykie Brown, Pernell McPhee and that Ozzie knew Kindle was cleared to play. Bernard Pollard was brought in as well and chris carr was re-signed.

Ozzie did his job.

It's the coaches job to utilize these guys. Which we haven't seen. This team won't be getting many sacks if JJ keeps playing as much as he is. Asante is a little overrated, he is like DeAngelo Hall with slightly better tackling.
[/quote]

I think Oz has done an unbelievable job... McKinney, Leach, Evans, Pollard, Geroud, draft was excellent (T. Smith needs to show up) but CB remains athe weak link... I guess time will tell. Good night my friends! [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/banana1.gif[/img]

[Alexir]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1316667793' post='800889']

I think Oz has done an unbelievable job... McKinney, Leach, Evans, Pollard, Geroud, draft was excellent (T. Smith needs to show up) but [b]CB remains athe weak link[/b]... I guess time will tell. Good night my friends! [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/banana1.gif[/img]
[/quote]

What free agent corners were out there for a REASONABLE price?

Torrey Smith not showing up is a coaching thing. Not re-signing Josh Wilson was the players choice. Going into week 1 our corners were our strength IMO, can't predict that 2 of them would be banged up forcing Foxworth into action.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Well according to Harbaugh foxworth is going to sit so he can recover. That leaves us with Cary, Webb, and Chyke? I'm not to comfortable with that, especially if Carr and Jimmy can't go next sun against Jets. And God forbid Webb or Cary go down.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1316698843' post='800961']
Srry for double post on my mobile
[/quote]
All good, but you know you can delete posts

[Florida Ravens Fan]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1316699950' post='800963']
All good, but you know you can delete posts [/quote]

Lol, didn't realize it thanks.

[EdReedFTW]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1316642054' post='800630']


Cute. That was before we signed Ngata and free'd up over 7 million.
[/quote]
I do agree that we most likely have the cap space do trade for Samuel since Ngata's salary for this year only 2.1 million (with 25 mill bonus.)
[url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Ngata-got-a-big-deal.html"]http://www.nationalf...a-big-deal.html[/url]
However as has been said by many people here AND in the other thread that already got closed we drafted for the future at CB and its a major overreaction to try to bring in an elite CB because of a bad game. On a side note, I dont think that Asante is ideally what the Ravens are looking for in cbs. Its seems that we're looking for bigger, press man CBs as evidenced by drafting two big corners. And then the rapid promotion of our one other larger corner Cary Williams.

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1316698744' post='800959']
Well according to Harbaugh foxworth is going to sit so he can recover. That leaves us with Cary, Webb, and Chyke? I'm not to comfortable with that, especially if Carr and Jimmy can't go next sun against Jets. And God forbid Webb or Cary go down.
[/quote]

Wow, thats a good point... My original position when posting this thread was based on the rational that our corner's were either talented but lackining experience, or just dont have the skill set to defend #1 & #2 recievers... That is why I suggested Samuels Philly has let it be known he it trade bait. He may not be worth a #2 draft pick but I believe he would be a great help.

Now after considering who is even healthy (Webb, Williams, and Brown), we may not have any choice but to seek out a CB just make it through the season... Especially when you consider Knee surgeries (Webb, Foxworth) take a year to really rehab (after returning to the field) and Hamstrings are typically chronic (Carr, Williams)... We could be in serious trouble with another flare-up or two...

Thats something to think about. Assuming Samuels is a no-go, iIs there anyone else who could be serviceable for a year? I heard someone mentiion Champ Bailey was still out there?