For Ravens, Passing Is A Problem

[ratedr]

Does anyone have access to ESPN Insider? There's an article posted there about the Ravens' problems with pass offense and pass defense, and it looks interesting. Here's the blurb:
[b] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][i]Baltimore's passing game is vulnerable to schemes; their secondary has the same issue[/i][/size][/font][/b]

[i]The [/i][i]Baltimore Ravens' 2011 season got off to a rocking start with a 35-7 win against the Pittsburgh Steelers[/i][i] that looked like the performance of a playoff favorite. Seven days later, the Ravens in no way resembled a postseason squad, as they were manhandled by the Tennessee Titans, 26-13.[/i]
[i]What changed in one week? Was it just a bad matchup for Baltimore? While the Ravens found holes in the short zones of Pittsburgh's coverage schemes in Week 1, Tennessee focused on shutting those short passes down. It worked. And a close look at the Ravens through the prism of these games and their personnel shows us Baltimore may have problems in the passing game that could be tough to correct.[/i]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6996652/nfl-baltimore-ravens-passing-offense-defense-needs-work

I know the whole article can't be posted here, but it would be interested if someone could read it and summarize it. I'm curious about what they have to say.

[gabefergy]

Its a pretty fair description of what happened to us in week 2. Here's my synopsis:

Offensive Struggles:

In week 1 Pitt made a concerted effort to take away Lee Evans, often leaving a safety over the top etc. This allowed for the underneath game to excel. Boldin, Dickson, Pitta, and Rice all had big days catching the ball and running after the catch.

In week 2 Tennessee decided they would make Evans beat them, basically focusing on taking away the short and intermediate routes, and it worked. The article also mentions how Evans has never really been a great WR. He doesnt catch a large % of passes coming his way, and isnt a real scary deep threat. (they didnt mention that he has been nursing an injury and isnt 100%) Essentially our underneath passing game was far less effective, and the author isnt impressed with our Receiving options (unproven TEs, aging Boldin, and rookie WRs). What wasnt mentioned was the poor O-line play that had Flacco on the run most of the game.

Defensive Struggles:

Basically the same thing we already know. Our CB situation is not good. We cant stop Elite WRs. Both Wallace and Britt had monster games, and we have no answer for them. It did mention that the Smith and Carr injuries are significant here. We have some big-time WRs coming up as well in Holmes, Andre Johnson, and Fitz. Hopefully the Jimmy and Carr will be healthy by then and we will not have the same problems we have seen so far.

Overall, the author thinks our Offense will struggle this year and our Defense will once again have to carry the load, but our secondary will have to improve or its going to be a long season.

My take: He hit on a lot of good points, but I dont think our offense will be that bad. As long as our O-line can stay healthy we will be a strong running team, and we should be able to use Joe's big arm to beat teams if they arent going to respect the long ball. Of course Evans is going to have to get better, and we need to see something out of Torrey, Reed, or Tandon.

[ratedr]

Thanks for the summary gabefergy. It seems like none of the staff ever seem to know how to put the offense together. Even the great Ozzie is known for picking busts as WRs. It's a mystery to me.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1316559860' post='799851']
Thanks for the summary gabefergy. It seems like none of the staff ever seem to know how to put the offense together. Even the great Ozzie is known for picking busts as WRs. It's a mystery to me.
[/quote]
I think its a bit too early to judge the offense. We really need to see what it looks like when everyone is healthy. I mean our O looked great week 1 against arguably the best Defense in the NFL. We have good players, its just a matter of using them effectively.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

The only problem is that Wallace didnt have a huge game. that guy is an idiot and someone should take away his pen. Wallace never came close to hurting us. He racked up his stats at the end during garbage time, while looking impressive on paper it meant nothing to the outcome of the game.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316562493' post='799890']
The only problem is that Wallace didnt have a huge game. that guy is an idiot and someone should take away his pen. Wallace never came close to hurting us. He racked up his stats at the end during garbage time, while looking impressive on paper it meant nothing to the outcome of the game.
[/quote]
Yeah, you are completely right about this. Wallace didnt hurt as at all, but Britt destroyed us. The injuries to Jimmy and Carr have really set us back.

[berad]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316562493' post='799890']
The only problem is that Wallace didnt have a huge game. that guy is an idiot and someone should take away his pen. Wallace never came close to hurting us. He racked up his stats at the end during garbage time, while looking impressive on paper it meant nothing to the outcome of the game.
[/quote]

Exactly. He had only 22 yards in the first half

[Gordo52]

Does anyone know when Carr or Grubbs comes back?

[CalvinSmoke]

Well, though i love my Ravens if we dont generate pressure we're gonna get burned. But i dont know what people are acting like this is something new, that holds up to any defense in the NFL. It happens to Greenbay, it happens to New England, it happens to the Jets and it happens to the Steelers, no pressure, no chance. when we pressured Ben we shut them down. And early in the Titans game we pushed Hasslebacks pocket right into his face and gave him problems. But when we stopped blitzing, we got torched... We're being too hard on our secondary imo.

[Blex64]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1316564309' post='799913']
Does anyone know when Carr or Grubbs comes back?
[/quote]

They're day to day at the moment. Hopefully we'll have them both back on Sunday.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1316569348' post='799987']
Well, though i love my Ravens if we dont generate pressure we're gonna get burned. But i dont know what people are acting like this is something new, that holds up to any defense in the NFL. It happens to Greenbay, it happens to New England, it happens to the Jets and it happens to the Steelers, [u][i][b]no pressure, no chance[/b][/i][/u]. when we pressured Ben we shut them down. And early in the Titans game we pushed Hasslebacks pocket right into his face and gave him problems. But when we stopped blitzing, we got torched... We're being too hard on our secondary imo.
[/quote]

This is exactly the issue. We know we don't have "pro bowl" caliber CBs, but without pressure, no secondary can cover forever and someone is going to break open. I love JJ, but we need Kindle or the like in for the pass to keep the opposing O line's blocking schemes honest.

[Natty Boh]

I'm not smart enough to be able to break down everything as to why the Ravens passing game pales in comparison to a lot of NFL teams but I can't wait for the day that it compares.

[wizard1]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1316554209' post='799756']
Does anyone have access to ESPN Insider? There's an article posted there about the Ravens' problems with pass offense and pass defense, and it looks interesting. Here's the blurb:
[b] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][i]Baltimore's passing game is vulnerable to schemes; their secondary has the same issue[/i][/size][/font][/b]

[i]The [/i][i]Baltimore Ravens' 2011 season got off to a rocking start with a 35-7 win against the Pittsburgh Steelers[/i][i] that looked like the performance of a playoff favorite. Seven days later, the Ravens in no way resembled a postseason squad, as they were manhandled by the Tennessee Titans, 26-13.[/i]
[i]What changed in one week? Was it just a bad matchup for Baltimore? While the Ravens found holes in the short zones of Pittsburgh's coverage schemes in Week 1, Tennessee focused on shutting those short passes down. It worked. And a close look at the Ravens through the prism of these games and their personnel shows us Baltimore may have problems in the passing game that could be tough to correct.[/i]

[url="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6996652/nfl-baltimore-ravens-passing-offense-defense-needs-work"]http://insider.espn....ense-needs-work[/url]

I know the whole article can't be posted here, but it would be interested if someone could read it and summarize it. I'm curious about what they have to say.
[/quote]
I can summarize it easily-I love my Baltimore Ravens but Joe Flacco is not the guy. His inconsistent play resembles dozens of really good quarterbacks over the decades that had similar flaws that never allowed them to become elite. Here are a few-Steve Deberg, Ron Jaworski, Ken O'brien, Dan Pastorini, Dave Kreig and there are dozens more. Unfortunately Flacco easily fits into this genre of NFL quarterback good but not great and as long as we try to build a team around him we will always be good but not great. Essentially this is what that article is saying in so many words. I believe we will see it up close and personal next week when Sam Bradford of all people shredds us. Joe had 1 300 yard passing game last year-really? Heres the real skinny--
[u][b]The Bad[/b][/u]
Baltimore is primarily a running team. They always have been and at least for the near future looks to continue that trend. They like to run the ball, control clock, and let their defense do damage by creating turnovers. They don't take a ton of chances which is why Flacco doesn't have a lot of picks. The Ravens were 20th in passing last year and this is probably very close to where they will end up year in and year out. Flacco only had one 300 yard passing game last year, and it was only 301 yards. He doesn't put up many huge fantasy games as a result. His biggest game last year was 22 points then the rest were 20 or less. Again he had a lot of double digit games but they were primarily between the 11-19 range. Not bad and you can probably live with that but if you want big games from time to time then Flacco may not be your best bet. He also is almost no threat for rushing yards. He rushed 43 times for 84 yds and 1 td last year which was more yds than the previous year so this is a pocket passing qb. If he doesn't get you tds and passing yds then he's not going to get you points in the running game either.
So what do you do with Flacco. If you are in a 12 team league I don't have a problem using him as a starter but don't reach for him, go heavy with talent and other positions and draft him at bargain only. For a 10 team league he is borderline starter and if he is your first pick I would look at a high upside second qb to have there as well.

[ratedr]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1316577732' post='800080']
I can summarize it easily-I love my Baltimore Ravens but Joe Flacco is not the guy. His inconsistent play resembles dozens of really good quarterbacks over the decades that had similar flaws that never allowed them to become elite. Here are a few-Steve Deberg, Ron Jaworski, Ken O'brien, Dan Pastorini, Dave Kreig and there are dozens more. Unfortunately Flacco easily fits into this genre of NFL quarterback good but not great and as long as we try to build a team around him we will always be good but not great. Essentially this is what that article is saying in so many words. I believe we will see it up close and personal next week when Sam Bradford of all people shredds us. Joe had 1 300 yard passing game last year-really? Heres the real skinny--
[u][b]The Bad[/b][/u]
Baltimore is primarily a running team. They always have been and at least for the near future looks to continue that trend. They like to run the ball, control clock, and let their defense do damage by creating turnovers. They don't take a ton of chances which is why Flacco doesn't have a lot of picks. The Ravens were 20th in passing last year and this is probably very close to where they will end up year in and year out. Flacco only had one 300 yard passing game last year, and it was only 301 yards. He doesn't put up many huge fantasy games as a result. His biggest game last year was 22 points then the rest were 20 or less. Again he had a lot of double digit games but they were primarily between the 11-19 range. Not bad and you can probably live with that but if you want big games from time to time then Flacco may not be your best bet. He also is almost no threat for rushing yards. He rushed 43 times for 84 yds and 1 td last year which was more yds than the previous year so this is a pocket passing qb. If he doesn't get you tds and passing yds then he's not going to get you points in the running game either.
So what do you do with Flacco. If you are in a 12 team league I don't have a problem using him as a starter but don't reach for him, go heavy with talent and other positions and draft him at bargain only. For a 10 team league he is borderline starter and if he is your first pick I would look at a high upside second qb to have there as well.
[/quote]
So basically you didn't actually read and you're just spouting your usual obsessive Flacco hate.

[Ravensstrike4424]

i dont listen to media crap like espn

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1316577732' post='800080']
I can summarize it easily-I love my Baltimore Ravens but Joe Flacco is not the guy. His inconsistent play resembles dozens of really good quarterbacks over the decades that had similar flaws that never allowed them to become elite. Here are a few-Steve Deberg, Ron Jaworski, Ken O'brien, Dan Pastorini, Dave Kreig and there are dozens more. Unfortunately Flacco easily fits into this genre of NFL quarterback good but not great and as long as we try to build a team around him we will always be good but not great. Essentially this is what that article is saying in so many words. I believe we will see it up close and personal next week when Sam Bradford of all people shredds us. Joe had 1 300 yard passing game last year-really? Heres the real skinny--
[u][b]The Bad[/b][/u]
Baltimore is primarily a running team. They always have been and at least for the near future looks to continue that trend. They like to run the ball, control clock, and let their defense do damage by creating turnovers. They don't take a ton of chances which is why Flacco doesn't have a lot of picks. The Ravens were 20th in passing last year and this is probably very close to where they will end up year in and year out. Flacco only had one 300 yard passing game last year, and it was only 301 yards. He doesn't put up many huge fantasy games as a result. His biggest game last year was 22 points then the rest were 20 or less. Again he had a lot of double digit games but they were primarily between the 11-19 range. Not bad and you can probably live with that but if you want big games from time to time then Flacco may not be your best bet. He also is almost no threat for rushing yards. He rushed 43 times for 84 yds and 1 td last year which was more yds than the previous year so this is a pocket passing qb. If he doesn't get you tds and passing yds then he's not going to get you points in the running game either.
So what do you do with Flacco. If you are in a 12 team league I don't have a problem using him as a starter but don't reach for him, go heavy with talent and other positions and draft him at bargain only. For a 10 team league he is borderline starter and if he is your first pick I would look at a high upside second qb to have there as well.
[/quote]

First off Wow...just wow

The Qb's you named are all very decorated and highly regarded Qb's.

And since when does fantasy numbers have anything to do with a QB and his ability to win real football.

I am actually stunned that someone would even say that.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316581968' post='800108']

First off Wow...just wow

The Qb's you named are all very decorated and highly regarded Qb's.

And since when does fantasy numbers have anything to do with a QB and his ability to win real football.

I am actually stunned that someone would even say that.
[/quote]
Nothing "wows" me with wizard1. The guy is off the grid. I find his rhetoric hilarious and I love it.

[funky141]

The 2 game difference is simple, turnovers. Win the turnover battle, 90 precent of the time you win the game.

[Corvus]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1316577732' post='800080']

I can summarize it easily-I love my Baltimore Ravens but Joe Flacco is not the guy. His inconsistent play resembles dozens of really good quarterbacks over the decades that had similar flaws that never allowed them to become elite. Here are a few-Steve Deberg, Ron Jaworski, Ken O'brien, Dan Pastorini, Dave Kreig and there are dozens more. Unfortunately Flacco easily fits into this genre of NFL quarterback good but not great and as long as we try to build a team around him we will always be good but not great. Essentially this is what that article is saying in so many words. I believe we will see it up close and personal next week when Sam Bradford of all people shredds us. Joe had 1 300 yard passing game last year-really? Heres the real skinny--
[u][b]The Bad[/b][/u]
Baltimore is primarily a running team. They always have been and at least for the near future looks to continue that trend. They like to run the ball, control clock, and let their defense do damage by creating turnovers. They don't take a ton of chances which is why Flacco doesn't have a lot of picks. The Ravens were 20th in passing last year and this is probably very close to where they will end up year in and year out. Flacco only had one 300 yard passing game last year, and it was only 301 yards. He doesn't put up many huge fantasy games as a result. His biggest game last year was 22 points then the rest were 20 or less. Again he had a lot of double digit games but they were primarily between the 11-19 range. Not bad and you can probably live with that but if you want big games from time to time then Flacco may not be your best bet. He also is almost no threat for rushing yards. He rushed 43 times for 84 yds and 1 td last year which was more yds than the previous year so this is a pocket passing qb. If he doesn't get you tds and passing yds then he's not going to get you points in the running game either.
So what do you do with Flacco. If you are in a 12 team league I don't have a problem using him as a starter but don't reach for him, go heavy with talent and other positions and draft him at bargain only. For a 10 team league he is borderline starter and if he is your first pick I would look at a high upside second qb to have there as well.
[/quote]

What does Bradford "shredding" our defense have to do with Flacco? And when did this turn into a Joe Flacco fantasy discussion? Besides despite all of your Flacco is an average fantasy player talk, I won my 12 team league in '09 and the nice $800 pot that came with it with Flacco and Palmer as my QBs. Just like real football, fantasy is a team game too in its own way.

[Thepurplehaze]

This article pretty much nails it. The Bengals, for example have always figured out how to stop the short dumps and screens to shut down our passing game.

The Steelers game we stretched the field VERY early forcing Pittsburg to back off a little on defense. Our early attempts on long passes failed against the Titans, resorting to our usual dump and run passing game.

[bpytnjr58]

Future opponents will be watching this game film A LOT.

[hawkprey]

The problem was our deep threat is impaired and they didn't trust him to beat anyone. Just look at Flacco's 2nd interception. The cornerback jumped the route because he knew Evans was going to come back. The other problem is our other deep threat hasn't done anything. The FO got so hooked on what a "great story" Torrey Smith had leading up to the NFL that they forgot he can't catch. You're not a threat if you can't catch the ball.

[Blex64]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1316653801' post='800784']
The problem was our deep threat is impaired and they didn't trust him to beat anyone. Just look at Flacco's 2nd interception. The cornerback jumped the route because he knew Evans was going to come back. The other problem is our other deep threat hasn't done anything. The FO got so hooked on what a "great story" Torrey Smith had leading up to the NFL that they forgot he can't catch. You're not a threat if you can't catch the ball.
[/quote]

Its never too early to start hating on rookies!

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316656912' post='800829']

Its never too early to start hating on rookies!
[/quote]
Absolutely, remember Torrey was a bust after 1 preseason game.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316656912' post='800829']

Its never too early to start hating on rookies!
[/quote]

Yep, I was hating on Torrey before we drafted him. Always called him the hometown hero who we only drafted because only the state of Maryland had their eyes on him. And I stand by that. He's not a threat unless he actually catches a pass.

[Blex64]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1316662995' post='800872']

Yep, I was hating on Torrey before we drafted him. Always called him the hometown hero who we only drafted because only the state of Maryland had their eyes on him. And I stand by that. He's not a threat unless he actually catches a pass.
[/quote]

I'm guessing sarcasm isn't your forte?

[counts52]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I just read Peter Schmucks article on the sun titled Ravens-Rams game will be a test for Cameron, Flacco. Basically Joe responds to the question about the lack of urgency on last Sundays 4th quarter saying [/font][/size]"I don't know what to really say besides that's what we were doing,'' Flacco said. "I guess that was the plan. It's not really my job to kind of question it and say that and say that we weren't. We needed to go down there [in the fourth quarter] and score a touchdown and we didn't score a touchdown. I did ask about maybe going for it on fourth down there rather than kicking the field goal, but it's what we decided to do."

Basically i think the problem with ravens passing game is Cam and for the first time since JH has been the head coach im starting to question if hes the guy. I know its not even the 3rd game of the season but that last game was terrible.

[Radinho84]

i know what some said about flacco is just laughable. but we have to be aware of crowning him and make him what he cannot be.
i like him a lot and think he ia a good qb. but he is not elite!!! there are a lot of guys in the league that are far better than him. he still has the same problems with staying on his first option way too long. i know that this is also a receiver´s problem (not getting open) and that you have to give him more guys he can pass to. but never the less he doesn´t seem like a very fast thinking guy to me.
after all i think he is goos enough that we can win it all in the next few years but i don´t think that he can carry the team on his shoulders like rodgers, brady, manning, Favre and all the other great ones did so many times.

but i also don´t think taht he needs to do that. we have a great running game and even a great defense. they have to carry us.

i would love to be proven wrong with my opininon about joe but i don´t think it will happen very soon. i mean he has that great arm and such a great deep pass. why don´t we play to his favour? lee evans has done nothing for us and i think we should see torrey much more so that he can build the chemistry with flacco that we need in a few years when all the old guys are gone...

tandon needs to see the field too. they are the future so start the future right now!!!

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1316653801' post='800784']
The problem was our deep threat is impaired and they didn't trust him to beat anyone. Just look at Flacco's 2nd interception. The cornerback jumped the route because he knew Evans was going to come back. The other problem is our other deep threat hasn't done anything. The FO got so hooked on what a "great story" Torrey Smith had leading up to the NFL that they forgot he can't catch. You're not a threat if you can't catch the ball.
[/quote]

Exactly this. When we don't have a legitimate deep threat (be it through injury or whatever) then the defense is just going to come up and defend the short routes and the underneath game. Then you also have to factor into the equation that the O-line was shaky at best for most of the game being as Flacco was on the run a lot and Rice had no holes to exploit. You can't blame that on Flacco.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316664057' post='800876']

I'm guessing sarcasm isn't your forte?
[/quote]


Actually it is. And I was just using your reply as a platform to continue hating on Torrey. He should have a chance to prove himself this Sunday and if he fails to, he should be benched instead of Doss or Kindle.