The Air Coryell And The Cover 2

[wayne]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316560286' post='799858']

You're confusing the Air Coryell with the West Coast system, and we do build at least a checkdown into most of our plays. The Receivers aren't getting open because its more then just CBs on them, pretty much all of them are doubled because they're playing inside the zone the defense is schemed to shut down.




I don't think the Oline held up very well, but Evans injury was obviously hampering him completing his deep routes, which was definitely part of the problem imo.
[/quote]
No, I understand the differences in each system quite well. What I'm saying is we need little dump off things to take the pressure off the O-line and the QB and I'm talking more than just passing it to Ray Rice. Look at the system Tom Brady plays in which to me is the best system. They have all kind of plays designed to quickly get the ball out of Brady's hand when they see teams about to send the heat ( bubble screens, quick slants, etc.... ) and if Brady was in the system Cam uses for us, he would be getting sacked just as much as Flacco and that O-line Brady has over there wouldn't look as good. You got to take your shots and work the D to your liking, not just run something regardless of what the D is doing. Do alot of quick passes and stuff when you see the D blitzing like crazy and eventually the D will have to pull back and then that's when you have your QB to do 7 step drops to let long routes develop and if the D-line is over aggressive, take advantage of that doing draws and what not to keep them honest. Just seems like Cam just do whatever and don't work the D to his liking.

Also, I stand by the saying of the O-line playing reasonably well vs the Titans. Cam has to help them out though, as well as Joe and I think this is where Cam has failed at. It's like Mattison last year when he put a lot of pressure on the D-line to win their one-on-one matchups and not throwing a twist or a bluff / disguise in there every now and then to take the pressure off the guys to win their one-on-one, especially considering we only had Suggs and Ngata that could consistently do this. Teams with the best pass rushers in the business ( Bears, Colts, Giants ) throw blitzes in there from time to time b/c any smart coach know that he has to take the pressure off his players from time to time, can't realistically expect them to win their one-on-one every time. Same things goes for the offense!

[Corvus]

First off, kudos to Blex for the nice post. Now, in my opinion, the problem last year and last week hasn't been Cam's Air Coryell scheme, its been his absolute inability to make adjustments to his offense when the defense is shutting it down. And its not as though the Titans tried a variety of things, they brought their front 4 and only their front 4 on the pass rush 90% of that game and were able to drop at least 7 into coverage everytime. Why? Because it was working for them. Despite what others saw, the o-line was holding the best they could but were giving up CONSISTENT pressure to 4 guys. And the times when Flacco did have a decent amount to throw he either apparently had no one open due to all those guys dropping back or just made a bonehead mistake (see the 1st pick to Verner). It was a huge TEAM loss and that is that, but Cam's inability to make adjustments seems to always be a common factor in these types of losses. By the 3rd quarter, I would have been calling lots of RB screens to Ray until they could prove they could stop them, since those were one of the few things that did work. He wasn't able to run too effectively in the game (and we got away from it late in the game) so get him out into space, get him the ball and see what your best offensive player can do, Its not that hard Cam, you've just gotta make adjustments man. You're game plan coming in is almost always gonna be affected by the unpredictable things that can happen in the game, you got to be able to make changes to put your guys in the best position to win the game, period.

And by adjustments Cam, I don't mean sending Leach on streaks down the field as I saw once or twice in that game...c'mon man, who's falling for HIM running that route?

[nk02442]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316562911' post='799896']
If you arent going to post anything that at least pertains to the discussion, please just go away.
[/quote]


It was directly in response to the last line of the poster above me....


If you arent going to read the posts and understand how they pertain to the discussion, then go away.

[nk02442]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1316595682' post='800139']
No, I understand the differences in each system quite well. What I'm saying is we need little dump off things to take the pressure off the O-line and the QB and I'm talking more than just passing it to Ray Rice. Look at the system Tom Brady plays in which to me is the best system. They have all kind of plays designed to quickly get the ball out of Brady's hand when they see teams about to send the heat ( bubble screens, quick slants, etc.... ) and if Brady was in the system Cam uses for us, he would be getting sacked just as much as Flacco and that O-line Brady has over there wouldn't look as good. You got to take your shots and work the D to your liking, not just run something regardless of what the D is doing. Do alot of quick passes and stuff when you see the D blitzing like crazy and eventually the D will have to pull back and then that's when you have your QB to do 7 step drops to let long routes develop and if the D-line is over aggressive, take advantage of that doing draws and what not to keep them honest. Just seems like Cam just do whatever and don't work the D to his liking.

Also, I stand by the saying of the O-line playing reasonably well vs the Titans. Cam has to help them out though, as well as Joe and I think this is where Cam has failed at. It's like Mattison last year when he put a lot of pressure on the D-line to win their one-on-one matchups and not throwing a twist or a bluff / disguise in there every now and then to take the pressure off the guys to win their one-on-one, especially considering we only had Suggs and Ngata that could consistently do this. Teams with the best pass rushers in the business ( Bears, Colts, Giants ) throw blitzes in there from time to time b/c any smart coach know that he has to take the pressure off his players from time to time, can't realistically expect them to win their one-on-one every time. Same things goes for the offense!
[/quote]

I agree with everything here. Cam/Joe do not adapt to the situation. There are not enough adjustments to ensure sucsess.

The other BIG problem is lining up with 7 seconds on the clock. Watch Brady Play..... He linesup with 15-20 seconds so he can read the defense, audible out or to a better route and keep the defense guessing. That DOG penatly in the 4th was unacceptable and another unexcusable mistake by joe/cam.

[Blex64]

I'd love to see Joe check into some quick screens or slants, but I'm not sure he's been giving the authority to audible this season or not. We know he was allowed to check out of some plays last year, but that's about. I know I haven't seen anything outside of him calling timeouts when he sees things he doesn't like.

I definitely still think the biggest issue is that Cam doesn't seem to be able to adjust his gameplan.

[kassaiscool]

When I watch this offense it feels like I'm watching the exact same thing week in and week out. Sometimes the offense works and sometimes it doesn't. Cam's mentality is we have the best players in the league so if we just execute we will win, and I disagree when we play a team with decent corners or decent scheme we get shutdown. This franchise has wasted now 4 years of Joe Flacco career in not getting a true deep threat. Joes biggest asset as a Qb is his arm, but nobody can consistently get open, and that's the biggest problem with our offense. Lee Evans at age 30 with an injured ankle isn't gonna cut it nor Torrey Smith yet, maybe later this season but I doubt it. Our rushing attack would be so much better, tight ends would have so much more room to work, but we never can draft a home run hitter. Steelers have no problem drafting speed receivers Wallce, Brown, and Sanders all of them were drafted in the third round and lower. SAD

[Twistidfunk]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316650003' post='800757']
I'd love to see Joe check into some quick screens or slants, but I'm not sure he's been giving the authority to audible this season or not. We know he was allowed to check out of some plays last year, but that's about. I know I haven't seen anything outside of him calling timeouts when he sees things he doesn't like.

[b]I definitely still think the biggest issue is that Cam doesn't seem to be able to adjust his gameplan[/b].
[/quote]

I also think this is what our offense boils down to. We have seen it how many years now?

At this point I don't trust Cam to make the changes and Harbaugh is not going to make the call so this is just going to have to be another frustrating season for the fans and our defense.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

The problem this year so far is the Offensive line play. If it would give consistent blocking for both pass and run then the cover 2 would not have that much of an impact on us. Time will tell which O'line we have. I figure it is somewhere in the middle between week 1 when they were almost a perfect O'line and week 2 where the line just fell apart in all aspects. We are going to do as good as our O'line will play. If they struggle then we struggle.

I hope we show improvement this week and the rest of the year.

Go Ravens !!

[wayne]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1316703709' post='800978']
The problem this year so far is the Offensive line play. If it would give consistent blocking for both pass and run then the cover 2 would not have that much of an impact on us. Time will tell which O'line we have. I figure it is somewhere in the middle between week 1 when they were almost a perfect O'line and week 2 where the line just fell apart in all aspects. We are going to do as good as our O'line will play. If they struggle then we struggle.

I hope we show improvement this week and the rest of the year.

Go Ravens !!
[/quote]

Ummmm...... the O-line played lights out vs the Steelers and they played aight vs the Titans, the days and times of using the O-line as an escape goat has come to a end. Its either Cam or Joe or the WRs we have and that's it, plain and simple.

[The Raven]

I finally got a chance to watch the game, since I worked sunday. The offensive line is not at fault for [i]most[/i] of the game. They certainly had their crappy moments, but they had a decent game. Honestly, the majority of the offensive line issues came from the left side. McKinnie was trash, and Levoir was atrocious, at least thats my opinion. Run blocking was okay, but the left side was just bad. Levoir was honestly what slowed us down on the line.

I think the receivers had a terrible game. Flacco had a lot of time to throw, and based on some of the blocking schemes I saw, they were meant to be short, quick passes, but nobody was open. Receivers have got to get open.

[JEEPercreepermd]

Here's the problem plain and simple. Our offense has lacked speed at WR, so we draft Torrey Smith and bring in Lee Evans. Great on paper, but for the time being Smith just looks lost out there and can't catch a ball while Lee Evans doesn't have the speed because of his injury so really last week we were right back to where we started.

Honestly with Grubbs out and Evans hurt we just didn't have the horses on Offense that we needed. What Tennessee did to us on defense last week reminded me a lot of how the Bengals have been playing us lately.

All in all, it's just one game we will get healthy again and we will see more offensive performances like the one we saw in week 1 as opposed to last week.

Now, I WILL say that I was getting sick watching the offense late in the 4th quarter just taking their time, no tempo, just wasting the clock.
at some point, the DO have to change things up during the course of a game when the game plan just isn't working.

I don't really think much of it had to do with scheme per se, but the execution just wasn't there from the WR's, Oline, TE's, RB's, and QB.

[robermar]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1316558780' post='799832']
Run game was aight, just we didn't run it more. Flacco had plenty of times most of the game to pass the ball, go back and watch the film ( lol, I mean the replay on NFL Network or something ). When Flacco hikes the ball just mentally count in your head the seconds he has to get rid of the ball. O-line wasn't really the problem, the problem seemed like no one could get open. Where are the slants and the back shoulder passes for us and the hitch routes and comeback routes? We need to implement more 3 step drop plays in the playcalling, simple as that.
[/quote]

This [url="http://ravens24x7.com/columns/Filmstudy/FILMSTUDY-Offensive-Line-Model-and-Notes-vs.-Titans-91811"]article [/url] would seem to refute the argument that the O-line played pretty well. They did not block the run well at all. They did not pass block well at all....especially considering that the Titan's sent 4 the vast majority of the game.

[wayne]

[quote name='robermar' timestamp='1316801181' post='801824']


This [url="http://ravens24x7.com/columns/Filmstudy/FILMSTUDY-Offensive-Line-Model-and-Notes-vs.-Titans-91811"]article [/url] would seem to refute the argument that the O-line played pretty well. They did not block the run well at all. They did not pass block well at all....especially considering that the Titan's sent 4 the vast majority of the game.
[/quote]

One thing I know about articles and stats and stuff, sometimes they are a bit inaccurate and deceiving as has been proven many times before on here. I watched the game with my own two eyes, in no way did the O-line just play flat out terrible against the Titans, not even for most of the game. Did they have their moments, yes......... did they play like the O-line of the Pats, no..... but to sit here and try to place the blame on them, naw b/c they don't really deserve it. Most of the blame, if not all goes to Flacco, Cam, and WRs and TEs who wasn't getting open b/c there were plenty of times when Flacco had around 4 mississippi to throw the ball and that's good for any -Oline.

[CapoRocky]

I hope the line gives Flacco some protection to throw downfield. If we are scoring and not turning over the ball, then we have a good chance to beat anyone.

[The Raven]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1316903333' post='802669']
I hope the line gives Flacco some protection to throw downfield. If we are scoring and not turning over the ball, then we have a good chance to beat anyone.
[/quote]

I hope the receivers get open so Flacco has someone to throw to.

[CapoRocky]

It looks like this will be the game that Torrey never forgets.

[Blex64]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1316815528' post='802086']
One thing I know about articles and stats and stuff, sometimes they are a bit inaccurate and deceiving as has been proven many times before on here. I watched the game with my own two eyes, in no way did the O-line just play flat out terrible against the Titans, not even for most of the game. Did they have their moments, yes......... did they play like the O-line of the Pats, no..... but to sit here and try to place the blame on them, naw b/c they don't really deserve it. Most of the blame, if not all goes to Flacco, Cam, and WRs and TEs who wasn't getting open b/c there were plenty of times when Flacco had around 4 mississippi to throw the ball and that's good for any -Oline.
[/quote]

The line as a whole did not, but LeVoir got beat nonstop all game long and kept Flacco running the entire game. It was awful

[EdReedFTW]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316912340' post='802721']

I hope the receivers get open so Flacco has someone to throw to.
[/quote]

Waddya know, receivers got open and what happened? Flacco almost threw for 400 yards.