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Blex64

The Air Coryell And The Cover 2

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Since people have been throwing around how terrible we've played against the Cover 2 the past couple years I thought I'd do a bit of a writeup on our offensive system and the defensive scheme (which pretty much every team uses at some point).


I've seen a lot of people talk about how we can't beat a Cover 2. Cam can't call against it, Flacco can't make reads on it, whatever, but if were going to figure out how to get around it the first step is to define what the Cover 2 is. The Cover 2 leaves both Safeties deep and has them guard half of the field, allowing the corners to operate underneath. Corners can play either man or zone and linebackers can drop into coverage or move up depending on the reads they make. Its a versatile scheme, and its primary use is to take away the middle of the field (vertically, not horizontally). This is particularly effective against the West Coast offense, which primarily relies on spreading an offense horizontally for short passes for 5-10 yard gains. As such, its weaknesses are the run and the deep pass. If the offense goes for either of them, the Cover 2 has to adjust and move players either farther back to respect the deep ball, or up close against the run. Either way, it opens up the middle of the field and allows you to move the chains better.


The funny thing about our issues with the Cover 2 is that it almost directly contrasts the offensive scheme Cam runs, the Coryell Offense. The Coryell stretches the field vertically, relying on a combination of short, mid, and long-range passing as well as power running. The foundation is two speedy WRs who can get deep to take long passes from a strong-armed QB, stretching the offense vertically to allow for playmakers underneath, with short and midrange passes to TEs and RBs, as well as a run game. One of the very basic but effective tricks the Coryell brings is the ability to setup a run play and make the opposing defense believe its actually a play-action. Its a versatile an EXTREMELY effective system and is essentially the foundation of football as we know it, although its heavily reliant on a few key personnel members.


The Ravens have almost the ideal prototypical Air Coryell Team:
We have a strong-armed pocket QB in Flacco, who throws one of (if not the) best deep ball in the league. We have a pair of deep-thread WR's in Evans and T. Smith who can stretch the field. We have Boldin who can beat just about any CB in the league with his route running and extremely physical play. We have two very effective TEs. I'm not certain on how fast Pitta is, but I believe Dickson has the speed to go deep (someone please correct me on this if its not true). Both of them are certainly useful across the middle. We have Ray Rice, who is quite possibly the best dual-threat RB since Marshall Faulk.

Which brings us to the Ravens' problems. We struggled against the Cover 2 all last year, and had obvious issues against it last weekend in Nashville.

I personally think our offensive issues last Sunday were almost solely caused by injuries. We obviously need to learn to adjust to injuries, but its certainly not time to go into panic mode. One of the foundations of the Air Coryell is a strong offensive line. Football is won and lost in the trenches, but its even more vital in a system that relies on going deep like the Coryell. If the line can't keep the QB on his feet long enough for the WR's to get deep, then your pass game is never going to be established. And this is precisely the issue we saw on Sunday. Mark LeVoir got beat on just about every single play I watched which means that McKinney and Birk had to try and make up for it, and pretty much the entire left side of the pocket collapsed consistently. This isn't news to any of you, Joe was scrambling all day long. Evans injury was slowing him down, causing issues getting him open deep, something perfectly illustrated by the one time Joe went to him and he was just a step too slow to make the catch.

I obviously can't say what the best solution to this issue is, I'm not a coach and I don't know everything that's going on with the team. The biggest question in my mind right now is Torrey Smith. According to the most recent article, Joe simply hasn't been getting to him in his progressions, which to me actually makes perfect sense. Pitt runs something like a Cover 6 and we truly didn't have much of a use for the deep ball against them last week, and with Joe scrambling nonstop he didn't always have time to get to the tail end of his progressions. There were plenty of times where he stepped up to make huge throws and was suddenly on the move again. I can't even really think of a good stopgap fix to the issue, short of taking Rice out and leaving Leach in on deep pass plays for extra pass protection, but the result is obviously less targets underneath if we do open up the deep game. I'd obviously like to see Gurode in at Guard if Grubbs is out next week, and obviously as our go-to backup interior lineman. I don't quite understand why we signed him if were going to start a subpar backup Tackle in place of a five-time Pro Bowl Center when one of our Guards goes out, but maybe Moeller being suspended had something to do with this.


I feel like I'm kind of rambling at this point, so I'm going to cut it off here. Hopefully this informs some people and gets some intelligent discussion going.
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Problem is a combination of scheme, personal, and coaching.

The system sucks it has never worked in the last 4 years. There is no reason why joe cannot get the ball out quickly to atleast one reciever if the pressure is coming. Watch the game and you can see the routes are terribel (bunched) and they do bo spread the defense like they should. Our routes need to allow 1 on 1 coverage for our recievers to make a play. Cam Cameron and his whole coaching tree is a joke. Every QB that is been under him has been garbage, untill he was out of the picture. Brees, Rivers, and hopefully Flacco once he is gone next year.
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[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316547742' post='799542']
Problem is a combination of scheme, personal, and coaching.

The system sucks it has never worked in the last 4 years. There is no reason why joe cannot get the ball out quickly to atleast one reciever if the pressure is coming. Watch the game and you can see the routes are terribel (bunched) and they do bo spread the defense like they should. Our routes need to allow 1 on 1 coverage for our recievers to make a play. Cam Cameron and his whole coaching tree is a joke. Every QB that is been under him has been garbage, untill he was out of the picture. Brees, Rivers, and hopefully Flacco once he is gone next year.
[/quote]

I'll ignore the part about every QB under Cam has been garbage, since that is absolutely untrue.

But I agree that our scheme and personnel clashes.
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Who has been succsfull under Cam? Show me one team that won the superbowl in his scheme? Show me when he was a headcoach, he had the worst team in football (ravens saved them that year from 0-16).
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[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316548934' post='799584']
[b]Who has been succsfull under Cam? Show me one team that won the superbowl in his scheme?[/b] Show me when he was a headcoach, he had the worst team in football (ravens saved them that year from 0-16).
[/quote]


Dont change it up now. That's not what you said originally.
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[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316547742' post='799542']
Problem is a combination of scheme, personal, and coaching.

The system sucks it has never worked in the last 4 years. There is no reason why joe cannot get the ball out quickly to atleast one reciever if the pressure is coming. Watch the game and you can see the routes are terribel (bunched) and they do bo spread the defense like they should. Our routes need to allow 1 on 1 coverage for our recievers to make a play. Cam Cameron and his whole coaching tree is a joke. Every QB that is been under him has been garbage, untill he was out of the picture. Brees, Rivers, and hopefully Flacco once he is gone next year.
[/quote]


The system certainly doesn't suck, its one of the most effective systems in the history of football.
Joe tried to force the ball out quickly on Sunday when he got frustrated, and he got picked off. Throwing it away is a better play, and the checkdown is possibly the best option. I don't know how you think we "should" spread the defense but the routes looked fine to me. You're not going to get one on one coverage just by drawing creative routes against the defense, that was the entire point of my essay. You're only going to get man to man if you can open up the field, which is where our problems lay.

Rivers was excellent under Cam, LT secured his hall of fame spot while Cam was there, and his coaching there earned him the Dolphins HC job. Obviously he was awful at it, but that's not really the point here. I'm not saying I'm super happy with Cam at the moment, but Rivers was excellent under him.
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Are u Blind?

First Post:

Cam Cameron and his whole coaching tree is a joke. Every QB that is been under him has been garbage, untill he was out of the picture. Brees, Rivers, and hopefully Flacco once he is gone next year.


Your Post

I'll ignore the part about every QB under Cam has been garbage, since that is absolutely untrue.

Mine

Who has been succsfull under Cam? Show me one team that won the superbowl in his scheme? Show me when he was a headcoach, he had the worst team in football (ravens saved them that year from 0-16).

These two go hand in hand and while i did not state that ver batem, anyone with a reading comprehension over 8yrold should be able to understand this.


Futhermore this system hasnt been effective since the early 90's when all teams were much more run based. This is an antiquidated system that without the perfect personal to execute it, will fail. Much like it has done over the last 4 years here , in Miami and San Diego before that.
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[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316551520' post='799677']

Futhermore this system hasnt been effective since the early 90's when all teams were much more run based. This is an antiquidated system that without the perfect personal to execute it, will fail. Much like it has done over the last 4 years here , in Miami and San Diego before that.
[/quote]

so apart from San diego and Houston right?

Dallas runs a version of it too.
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the problem was our o-line last week. It was night and day vs the Steelers and Titans. Flacco needed just a bit more time to get the ball out. Very frustrating.

I like our offense but I can't tell if the receivers are open or not watching on tv. I think the solution with poor o-line play is the shotgun and quick passes. Flacco always seems more comfortable in shotgun anyway. This is where Cam can be blamed. Just like last season, he doesn't make the adjustments. I think that is why people here want his head to roll. He is frustrating. Why can fans see problems but he can't?!
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[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316551520' post='799677']
Are u Blind?

First Post:

Cam Cameron and his whole coaching tree is a joke. Every QB that is been under him has been garbage, untill he was out of the picture. Brees, Rivers, and hopefully Flacco once he is gone next year.


Your Post

I'll ignore the part about every QB under Cam has been garbage, since that is absolutely untrue.

Mine

Who has been succsfull under Cam? Show me one team that won the superbowl in his scheme? Show me when he was a headcoach, he had the worst team in football (ravens saved them that year from 0-16).

These two go hand in hand and while i did not state that ver batem, anyone with a reading comprehension over 8yrold should be able to understand this.


Futhermore this system hasnt been effective since the early 90's when all teams were much more run based. This is an antiquidated system that without the perfect personal to execute it, will fail. Much like it has done over the last 4 years here , in Miami and San Diego before that.
[/quote]

It won the Super Bowl for the Greatest Show on Turf, and variations are run by New York, Houston, San Diego, and I'm sure several more teams I can't think of at the moment. Its a perfectly effective system [b]as long as you have the personnel to execute it.[/b] You won't see any more success trying to run a West Coast system without the proper personnel either. We abslutely have the personnel, were pretty much the ideal Coryell team.

Edit: You also said that every QB under Cam was terrible. This is completely false. No, he's never won a Super Bowl, but I guess by your definition Rivers is terrible.

[quote name='Twistidfunk' timestamp='1316551861' post='799692']
the problem was our o-line last week. It was night and day vs the Steelers and Titans. Flacco needed just a bit more time to get the ball out. Very frustrating.

I like our offense but I can't tell if the receivers are open or not watching on tv. I think the solution with poor o-line play is the shotgun and quick passes. Flacco always seems more comfortable in shotgun anyway. This is where Cam can be blamed. Just like last season, he doesn't make the adjustments. I think that is why people here want his head to roll. He is frustrating. Why can fans see problems but he can't?!
[/quote]

I agree completely. I wish we had the ability to see the entire field on TV, but we don't.
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No time to pass the ball= no big plays+no running game

It's simple , if we could have ran the ball effectively.... that would have been the missing price to make it all work.
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[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316552397' post='799718']

It won the Super Bowl for the Greatest Show on Turf, and variations are run by New York, Houston, San Diego, and I'm sure several more teams I can't think of at the moment. Its a perfectly effective system [b]as long as you have the personnel to execute it.[/b] You won't see any more success trying to run a West Coast system without the proper personnel either. We abslutely have the personnel, were pretty much the ideal Coryell team.

Edit: You also said that every QB under Cam was terrible. This is completely false. No, he's never won a Super Bowl, but I guess by your definition Rivers is terrible.



I agree completely. I wish we had the ability to see the entire field on TV, but we don't.
[/quote]

Rivers did nothing under Cam. When he left in 2006-07, Rivers numbers and skill shot up to a top 5 QB every year. Dont know what your talking about.....
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[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316556266' post='799784']
No time to pass the ball= no big plays+no running game

It's simple , if we could have ran the ball effectively.... that would have been the missing price to make it all work.
[/quote]

Seems to me that GB, NO, and NE has no problem moving the chains without establishing the run. In fact these teams establish the Pass to open up the run game.
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[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316557011' post='799807']

Rivers did nothing under Cam. When he left in 2006-07, Rivers numbers and skill shot up to a top 5 QB every year. Dont know what your talking about.....
[/quote]

His numbers shot up because he was throwing the ball more, not because he suddenly became an elite QB out of nowhere.

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316557059' post='799809']

Seems to me that GB, NO, and NE has no problem moving the chains without establishing the run. In fact these teams establish the Pass to open up the run game.
[/quote]


You mean those West Coast teams?
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Good write up OP. I love it when people give very insightful posts.

Last year it was the lack of a deep threat and O-LIne which killed this type of system. This year we tried our best to improve the O-Line and upgrade with speed at WR. But like you said having two injuries really killed us in this game. Grubbs and Evans (ankle).

I think it will work better than last year because we have the pieces. But then again. We need to have some sort of plan B. If plan A isn't working there needs to be in game adjustments. What those could be are beyond me.
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[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316557059' post='799809']


Seems to me that GB, NO, and NE has no problem moving the chains without establishing the run. In fact these teams establish the Pass to open up the run game.
[/quote]


ELITE PASSING ATTACKS (ELITE Qb's), can cover up a lot of things. You have to play to your teams strength... NE, Gb, NO isn't a power run team and doesn't try to be. They use misdirection and draw plays. The Ravens TRY to power run the ball. Their system is blessed with phenomenal QB'S, thats not somethin Baltimore has. That's the problem with comparing offenses and personnel.
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I have a problem with this system as most QBs in the league not named Tom Brady wouldn't succeed running this type of scheme as the Patriots O-line gives Brady 5-6 seconds on a consistent basis. Anyway, QBs like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Brees succeed and there are a lot of plays designed for them to get the ball out quickly which takes pressure off of the O-line and discourage teams from blitzing and it also tired out the D with them constantly rushing the passer only for the ball to be out quickly ( like Hasselback did to us ). I mean, the Coyell system could be fine but you have to mix in what I call " bail out plays" for the QB as well as the O-line. I rarely ever see Flacco go on a rampage where he's dinking and dunking here and there, seems like he's always taking the traditional 5-7 step drop waiting on routes to develop. Crazy how I can just look at any random game and see QBs completing passes to WRs that's open or covered ( back shoulder ) and with us, there be games where you would swear that Nhandi and Revis was the opposing CBs we are going up against.

Also, for the record, our O-line didn't do as bad as people are making it out to be. They did fairly decent and by looking at other teams play and how their O-line faired, I would say the Ravens O-line did pretty good matching them up against other teams O-line ( was at the sports bar so I was looking at multiple, multiple games. I don't know if people are trying to use the O-line excuse to bail out Cam or Flacco but for the most part, the O-line held up.
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[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316556266' post='799784']
No time to pass the ball= no big plays+no running game

It's simple , if we could have ran the ball effectively.... that would have been the missing price to make it all work.
[/quote]

Run game was aight, just we didn't run it more. Flacco had plenty of times most of the game to pass the ball, go back and watch the film ( lol, I mean the replay on NFL Network or something ). When Flacco hikes the ball just mentally count in your head the seconds he has to get rid of the ball. O-line wasn't really the problem, the problem seemed like no one could get open. Where are the slants and the back shoulder passes for us and the hitch routes and comeback routes? We need to implement more 3 step drop plays in the playcalling, simple as that.
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[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316545959' post='799478']
Since people have been throwing around how terrible we've played against the Cover 2 the past couple years I thought I'd do a bit of a writeup on our offensive system and the defensive scheme (which pretty much every team uses at some point).


[/quote]
I love it when people write up complex analysis like this on the offensive or defensive schemes and why they did or didnt work. Thanks
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[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1316558212' post='799823']
I have a problem with this system as most QBs in the league not named Tom Brady wouldn't succeed running this type of scheme as the Patriots O-line gives Brady 5-6 seconds on a consistent basis. Anyway, QBs like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Brees succeed and there are a lot of plays designed for them to get the ball out quickly which takes pressure off of the O-line and discourage teams from blitzing and it also tired out the D with them constantly rushing the passer only for the ball to be out quickly ( like Hasselback did to us ).I mean, the Coyell system could be fine but you have to mix in what I call " bail out plays" for the QB as well as the O-line. I rarely ever see Flacco go on a rampage where he's dinking and dunking here and there, seems like he's always taking the traditional 5-7 step drop waiting on routes to develop. Crazy how I can just look at any random game and see QBs completing passes to WRs that's open or covered ( back shoulder ) and with us, there be games where you would swear that Nhandi and Revis was the opposing CBs we are going up against.[/quote]

You're confusing the Air Coryell with the West Coast system, and we do build at least a checkdown into most of our plays. The Receivers aren't getting open because its more then just CBs on them, pretty much all of them are doubled because they're playing inside the zone the defense is schemed to shut down.


[quote] Also, for the record, our O-line didn't do as bad as people are making it out to be. They did fairly decent and by looking at other teams play and how their O-line faired, I would say the Ravens O-line did pretty good matching them up against other teams O-line ( was at the sports bar so I was looking at multiple, multiple games. I don't know if people are trying to use the O-line excuse to bail out Cam or Flacco but for the most part, the O-line held up.

Run game was aight, just we didn't run it more. Flacco had plenty of times most of the game to pass the ball, go back and watch the film ( lol, I mean the replay on NFL Network or something ). When Flacco hikes the ball just mentally count in your head the seconds he has to get rid of the ball. O-line wasn't really the problem, the problem seemed like no one could get open. Where are the slants and the back shoulder passes for us and the hitch routes and comeback routes? We need to implement more 3 step drop plays in the playcalling, simple as that.
[/quote]

I don't think the Oline held up very well, but Evans injury was obviously hampering him completing his deep routes, which was definitely part of the problem imo.
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You need ample time to allow for the long routes to be run and that correlates with the time in the pocket. If your OL can't protect the QB with enough time that is needed for the route to be completed you are going to run into trouble which the Ravens did on last Sunday.

Cam Cameron doesn't use the Air Coryell per-say like how Norv Turner does in San Diego which is much closer to the original scheme. He mixes it up with the Single setback (Ace formation) with 2 WRs on the outside with usually a FB and TE or a 2 TE sets. He heavily relies on the run game to setup the play action pass with deep strikes coming on with having the opposing defenders bite on the fake runs.

Now this doesn't always work because if you aren't running the ball well you can play zone with your LBs to watch for those runs and take away the TE and have those two safeties in the back playing the deep pass. If you stick with your gameplan and don't make any adjustments or the QB doesn't shift his hot route to counteract the defenses scheme than you are going to struggle heavily.

I would like to see more 2 TE sets (hopefully Dickson and Pitta become better run blockers to sell the PAP) and the use of screens, outs, slants, and drags for those quick short passing plays. Also the Ravens should start to use more shotgun formation because Joe Flacco is very comfortable with the extra second given to him to find the open man and can see the whole field better.

The gameplan is very rigid and I don't see many adjustments get made during games. I was thinking they'd be more audibles in the 2nd half because the Ravens offense wasn't clicking, but I don't recall much or any changes. Is it a scheme issue? I don't think so, it's more about evolving and changing because you can't expect the same look defense from every team, it changes week by week and you have to do your part as well to evolve.
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Ok, If Cam wants to run the Air Coryell (aka Verticcal Passing Game) fine, the problem is put the people on the field who can succeed in it. And all of the "Cam is awesome" people just read the first post (actually a good depiction on how Coryell drew up his offenses and the predication of auxiliary passes), then think about our Offense.

We bring in Stallworth, he catches 2 passes. Runs an infinite amount of reverse's .

Bring in Lee Evans( we are almost there)
Draft Torrey Smith ( we have our 2 speed guys now)

now when have they both been on the outside putting Boldin in the slot and running a traditional "Coryell" offense. not often. either cam is having an identity crisis or he really is just that bad ( now let the battle rage!!! )
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[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316562537' post='799891']
I'm going to go with he is really that bad for 300 Alex!
[/quote]
If you arent going to post anything that at least pertains to the discussion, please just go away.
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[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316557059' post='799809']

Seems to me that GB, NO, and NE has no problem moving the chains without establishing the run. In fact these teams establish the Pass to open up the run game.
[/quote]

NE has the best QB in the league, GB has the second best, and NO has the fourth best. Belichick is the best coach in the league, and Payton and McCarty are two of the best offensive minds in football. All of them use complex offensive schemes and have coaches capable of adjusting and making things work.

To whoever said NE runs the WCO, NE runs something like the spread offense. Furthermore, NE somehow manages to give Brady a ridiculous amount of time in the pocket. Any QB with that kind of time to read the defense is going to make the play.

If we can fix the OL, we can semi-competently run Cam's offense. His complete inability to adjust his system will always be a hindrance to offensive success, but we can win if the OL gives us time to execute the pass and opens up holes in the run game. I still wish Cam would be fired, I believe it's time to change schemes and try to get a coach who will work better with what we have, especially Joe Flacco.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1316563953' post='799906']

NE has the best QB in the league, GB has the second best, and NO has the fourth best. Belichick is the best coach in the league, and Payton and McCarty are two of the best offensive minds in football. All of them use complex offensive schemes and have coaches capable of adjusting and making things work.

To whoever said NE runs the WCO, NE runs something like the spread offense. Furthermore, NE somehow manages to give Brady a ridiculous amount of time in the pocket. Any QB with that kind of time to read the defense is going to make the play.

If we can fix the OL, we can semi-competently run Cam's offense. His complete inability to adjust his system will always be a hindrance to offensive success, but we can win if the OL gives us time to execute the pass and opens up holes in the run game. I still wish Cam would be fired, I believe it's time to change schemes and try to get a coach who will work better with what we have, especially Joe Flacco.
[/quote]

Most of the reason Tom Brady has a lot of time in the pocket isn't really about the effectiveness of his OL, but rather Brady has proven that he has a fast release and can punish teams who blitz him. D coordinators don't blitz Tom Brady. Brady was one of the least blitzed QB in the NFL in 2010 according to [url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/12/beating-the-blitz/"]Pro Football Focus[/url].

Our OL is actually very good. But it doesn't seem like that because Joe gets pressured a lot, but its a combination of Joe holding on the ball too long and WR inability to get open. Our Oline actually allowed the 6th fewest pressures on the QB last year, and that's before we signed McKinnie and moved Oher and Yanda to their preferred positions. To his credit, Joe looks like he has improved drastically in getting rid of th ball this year.

Also, Joe will never be a QB who can get rid of the ball quickly like a Drew Brees because although his size lets him see over the OL, being bigger usually means a slower delivery unless you're Peyton Manning. An Air Coryell type offense plays exactly to Joe's strengths. Changing schemes would mean changing QBs because Joe wouldn't be nearly as effective in other offenses.

So instead of comparing Flacco to Brady, Rodgers, Brees, we should be looking at Roethlisberger, Rivers, Peyton Manning etc because those are the players who share Flacco's athletic skill set, size and offensive scheme.

For those who say Cam doesn't adapt his offense, from 2008 to 2010, the leading receiver on the team was a short route running possession receiver running short outs and curls vs streaks, flys, and deep posts. He found a way to get production from a slower receiver and an inexperience QB with a slower delivery without forcing the Air Coryell routes on Mason.
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The WCO is a variation of the spread, they work off of the same fundamentals.

Brady being the least-blitzed QB is probably related to his 9:1 TD:INT ratio, although bringing the house on him is never going to be a good idea.

Our line is excellent when we have our starters playing, and I think Gurode is excellent depth as well. Our OL was certainly not good in Nashville on Sunday. His pocket presence has definitely improve though, I wish I had some OL stats for reference, I might rewatch the game a couple times over the next week.

Flacco can work on his delivery, but I agree he's well suited to this system. I definitely think he's good enough to adapt to other schemes, but what we have is definitely working for him.

Cam had Boldin and Mason both run plenty of Coryell routes last year, and we struggled in PLENTY of games because of it. He's had obvious difficulty in responding to adjustments other teams make, and he seems unable to stray from his gameplan. Not much we can do about that until at least the end of the season though.
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