Too Much Emphasis On Special Teams?

[arnie_uk]

Which Harbugh being a ST coach turned head coach, do the ravens put too much emphasis on ST when deciding who makes the 46 on game day?

See laquan Williams and Torrey Smith...

Doss was arguably are best WR in preseason, although he didnt light up the stats board, but he caught every thing thrown his way, he ran crisp routes and done everything that was asked off him. i think he would be an asset to our team if he got playing.

but now to the main point, Smith hasnt been targeted in two games, and im not sure if laquan has seen a snap on offense yet. Smith is not nfl ready yet and that just leaves us with 2 WRs on gameday (reed didnt see much action against titans either). it really limits our weapons on offense without doss.

Also lets not forget Jimmys injury on special teams, yes i know you will all say everyone has to do their part and players such as reed etc has all done special teams in their time, but you dont see any other team playing there no1 or no1 to be corner in ST. Im not just chatting about the revis' and nmandis' of this world. No team does, except maybe arizona and PP retruning kicks. im just sure they could have got enough ST elsewere from the 46 without Smith being there.. Didi they prioritise special teams over thinking "we need this man on our defense"?

Just a thought, i wonder if personnell would be different with an offense/defense minded HC?

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

I have wondered this a lot lately. I have never thought that someone should go from ST straight to HC they should always have to serves as a Coordinator first so they get the big picture of personnel. That being said it is hard to argue with Harbs resume.

And No Jimmy should not be on special teams. Reed did it because he was good at it, apparently Jimmy just gets hurt so leave him be, he does not need to be on there anywhere there are plenty of bodies who could do the same job on special teams. Paying your dues be darned, if he would have broken his leg than people would be outraged not irritated.

And Yes Doss should be active not Laquan because he only contributed against people who are no longer on the team (he sure was fun to watch though) . Doss was playing people you will see on Sunday's......on the field.

[rlh445]

I don't think that's been too much of a problem, I mean if they were putting more emphasis on ST then I think it's been a pretty dull effort..we haven't had a consistently awesome KR since Jermaine Lewis. I AM tired of people questioning the team putting Jimmy Smith on ST. He's a rook, it's pretty standard, it was a freak accident and it could have happened on the first play of scrimmage as well as during a kickoff or a punt return or what have you. It's football. No one is actually sure that they could've grabbed someone else for ST besides Smith because no one here works for or decides the roster for the Ravens, so it's pretty safe to assume that Smith was put there for a reason and had a fluke accident. Welcome to the NFL Jimmy!

[Alexir]

Funny thing is we need Kindle for passing downs yet he doesn't dress because of special teams? Didn't he almost block 2 punts in one game?

[rlh445]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1316467293' post='798482']
Funny thing is we need Kindle for passing downs yet he doesn't dress because of special teams? Didn't he almost block 2 punts in one game?
[/quote]

I think so!

[Bltravens]

Thats what you get when your HC is a ST guy. We have guys activated who have no business being activated and guys not dressing who have no business being in street clothes. We also have guys running on kick coverage who have no business doing it. Let Foxworth's knee rehab, let him run up and down the field all he wants.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1316467256' post='798479']
I don't think that's been too much of a problem, I mean if they were putting more emphasis on ST then I think it's been a pretty dull effort..we haven't had a consistently awesome KR since Jermaine Lewis. I AM tired of people questioning the team putting Jimmy Smith on ST. He's a rook, it's pretty standard, it was a freak accident and it could have happened on the first play of scrimmage as well as during a kickoff or a punt return or what have you. It's football. No one is actually sure that they could've grabbed someone else for ST besides Smith because no one here works for or decides the roster for the Ravens, so it's pretty safe to assume that Smith was put there for a reason and had a fluke accident. [b]Welcome to the NFL Jimmy![/b]
[/quote]

Yeah welcome jimmy your injured, have fun playin......oh wait your not. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

He was put on there because he is a freak athlete, and probably the most athletic guy on ST. Which is why he should not have been there. You dont put a guy that you are looking to bear the mantle of the secondary when a legend retires on freakin ST. Do you see Aso on special teams, what about Revis.

And yeah Jimmy isnt in their class but you dont need soemone with a nagging injury because that can hinder his progress. And before somebody yells out Patrick Peterson, we are not as desperate as the Cards, but if that is your idea for a model of personnel management, you may end up very unhappy.

[rlh445]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316475393' post='798626']

Yeah welcome jimmy your injured, have fun playin......oh wait your not. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

He was put on there because he is a freak athlete, and probably the most athletic guy on ST. Which is why he should not have been there. You dont put a guy that you are looking to bear the mantle of the secondary when a legend retires on freakin ST. [b]Do you see Aso on special teams, what about Revis.[/b]

And yeah Jimmy isnt in their class but you dont need soemone with a nagging injury because that can hinder his progress. And before somebody yells out Patrick Peterson, we are not as desperate as the Cards, but if that is your idea for a model of personnel management, you may end up very unhappy.
[/quote]

Ha! Jimmy Smith isn't Nnamdi nor is he Revis..he's a rookie with an unmeasured amount of potential. I know you mentioned this but I wanted to make sure it didn't go unnoticed. Second, last year in November one of the Jets mainstays on ST (Lowery) went out with a concussion, and in the presser preceding the game mentioned that they were considering either Cromartie or Revis to replace him. Cromartie ended up returning punts. Third, Deion Sanders was a premier corner, period. Guess what else he did? My point is that Harbs did nothing wrong putting Jimmy in there, period. I'm not happy he got injured, but as I said in a prior post, he could have gotten hurt on the first snap of the game or the last because it's football and injuries happen. His progress will be fine, and if it isn't then he wasn't that good to begin with because I can't think of a single respected, talented football player who has let something like an ankle sprain stop him from competing once the docs let him play.

[The Black Bird]

Yes Harbaugh put to much emphasis in special teams. Doss is not on the active roster because of special teams,but can someone please tell me what Torrey has done on special teams?

[CalvinSmoke]

Jimmy Smith is not baby Jesus, he can play special teams. It was a kick-off for goodness sakes! if it was a kick return i would understand the frustration, because those blockers get killed. But it happens, he'll be fine, our team will be fine. It's football and he's not a veteran, thus on this team, he is not above the rules. Divas arent allowed on the Ravens, you have to go through the hardknocks, thats just how it is in Baltimore. He'll be just fine.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316466136' post='798453']
I have wondered this a lot lately. I have never thought that someone should go from ST straight to HC they should always have to serves as a Coordinator first so they get the big picture of personnel. That being said it is hard to argue with Harbs resume.

And No Jimmy should not be on special teams. Reed did it because he was good at it, apparently Jimmy just gets hurt so leave him be, he does not need to be on there anywhere there are plenty of bodies who could do the same job on special teams. Paying your dues be darned, if he would have broken his leg than people would be outraged not irritated.

[b]And Yes Doss should be active not Laquan because he only contributed against people who are no longer on the team (he sure was fun to watch though) . Doss was playing people you will see on Sunday's......on the field.[/b]
[/quote]

You sure buddy? I remember most of Doss' catches being in the 3rd quarter. Maybe that's just me though. Laquan at least had some electric returns. Doss didn't.

Though, I completely agree he should have been active.

[The Raven]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1316480841' post='798752']
Jimmy Smith is not baby Jesus, he can play special teams. It was a kick-off for goodness sakes! if it was a kick return i would understand the frustration, because those blockers get killed. But it happens, he'll be fine, our team will be fine. It's football and he's not a veteran, thus on this team, he is not above the rules. Divas arent allowed on the Ravens, you have to go through the hardknocks, thats just how it is in Baltimore. He'll be just fine.
[/quote]


Good post. Good to hear someone here knows how football actually works.

[BloodRaven]

Of course, last season we dressed like 3- 4 ST linebackers for each game.

[JayDaRavensFan]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1316467293' post='798482']
Funny thing is we need Kindle for passing downs yet he doesn't dress because of special teams? Didn't he almost block 2 punts in one game?
[/quote]
I also remember hearing that he loved special teams last year when we drafted him. I don't get it.

[Radinho84]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1316479221' post='798715']

Ha! Jimmy Smith isn't Nnamdi nor is he Revis..he's a rookie with an unmeasured amount of potential. I know you mentioned this but I wanted to make sure it didn't go unnoticed. Second, last year in November one of the Jets mainstays on ST (Lowery) went out with a concussion, and in the presser preceding the game mentioned that they were considering either Cromartie or Revis to replace him. Cromartie ended up returning punts. Third, Deion Sanders was a premier corner, period. Guess what else he did? My point is that Harbs did nothing wrong putting Jimmy in there, period. I'm not happy he got injured, but as I said in a prior post, he could have gotten hurt on the first snap of the game or the last because it's football and injuries happen. His progress will be fine, and if it isn't then he wasn't that good to begin with because I can't think of a single respected, talented football player who has let something like an ankle sprain stop him from competing once the docs let him play.
[/quote]
you are right about that the injurie could have happened at any time on a regular snap. BUT the risk at special teams are a lot higher with all the bodies flying around. at fact a lot of injuries happen on special teams. the guys run full speed into each other. you don´t have that kind of speed on a regular snap. playing your first round starting cb on special teams is just very very stupid!!!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1316480841' post='798752']
Jimmy Smith is not baby Jesus, he can play special teams. It was a kick-off for goodness sakes! if it was a kick return i would understand the frustration, because those blockers get killed. But it happens, he'll be fine, our team will be fine. It's football and he's not a veteran, thus on this team, he is not above the rules. Divas arent allowed on the Ravens, you have to go through the hardknocks, thats just how it is in Baltimore. He'll be just fine.
[/quote]
Whats the point of that? Sure he's a rookie but I dont recall Ed running on kick coverage as a rookie, or Ray Rice. Harbaugh uses it too much as his way of regulating on young guys. "You want to play, you go through my ST unit". Take it how you want, but theres certain guys you shouldnt even bother putting on ST, JSmith, the guy who was supposed to be our #1 corner as a rookie about halfway through the year getting all his reps in so he was solid for a playoff run wont be able to play until like week 7. Our corner situation is the same dog crap its been for the past 3 years now, a corner proving himself he can start full time (Wilson last year Williams this year), a guy who isnt the same after ACL surgery in coverage (Webb), an undersized smart zone corner (Carr), and whatever in god's name Foxworth is. The silver lining this year was we had a guy with great press man coverage ability, and he was done for a month and a bit because of a ST play...sweet. He should have been starting that game over Webb anyways, did Harbaugh not see how awful Webb was in pre season in coverage?

[i82much]

Stuff happens. Geez.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316483096' post='798815']

You sure buddy? I remember most of Doss' catches being in the 3rd quarter. Maybe that's just me though. Laquan at least had some electric returns. Doss didn't.

Though, I completely agree he should have been active.
[/quote]

Your memory serves you well, your knowledge of preseason etiquette is killing you though. Lets see the first group in the first game usually plays well into the second or up until half. Then the second stringers come out, and they usually play into late 3r early 4th. early 4th to late they play everyone else. Second game starters usually play to half and then the second stringers come in in the 3rd. Then the 3rd game is the dress rehearsal where the starters usually go into the 3rd.

So yeah if most of his catches were made in the third it is a split between second and third string guys on the team which usually make the team, not the guys LaQuan was playing.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316539829' post='799363']

Your memory serves you well, your knowledge of preseason etiquette is killing you though. Lets see the first group in the first game usually plays well into the second or up until half. Then the second stringers come out, and they usually play into late 3r early 4th. early 4th to late they play everyone else. Second game starters usually play to half and then the second stringers come in in the 3rd. Then the 3rd game is the dress rehearsal where the starters usually go into the 3rd.

So yeah if most of his catches were made in the third it is a split between second and third string guys on the team which usually make the team, not the guys LaQuan was playing.
[/quote]

Either way, Doss didn't do anything against starters, but should still be active. Idk if he should play over Torrey, but it's close. I know Doss made all those sweet grabs. And man were they sweet. But I heard Torrey is better in practice. We can't really judge the situation, we weren't at TC, and we don't get a good TV angle to see the WRs.

To be clear, I want Doss active.

[theFRANCHISE]

I don't believe there's such a thing as too much emphasis on any particular phase of the game. In the way of special teams, you have to remember that this overlooked portion of the game is more than just hidden yardage. If you don't win the field position battle, your offense and defense will have a tougher time doing their jobs.

Remember how much the team struggled on defense last year when the special teams unit failed to cover returns? Same story back in 2007 and 2005.

[Natty Boh]

I agree that Specials Teams isn't so special anymore since a lot more kicks go out of the endzone now. But someone has to play them and a lot of players wouldn't make the roster or be active if they couldn't play Special Teams.