Ray Lewis Needs To Come Off The Field.........on 3Rd Down

[bmore187]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1316415427' post='797827']

Can you and the guy who made this thread name when Ray was expose in coverage ( liability )? Ray did his job damn good today and I'm sure it was to focus on CJ with the running and receptions out the backfield. Please name the play or plays where Ray was expose. Please bring evidence when accusing someone of something, especially when it's not obvious...
[/quote]

Hines Ward last week ( whose nowhere close to being fleet of food )...........yes ray caused a FF on the play BUT it was after Ward was slowed up by another Raven then Ray jumped on him and hit the ball loose after like a 30 or so yd gain........If you actually read my post i said RAY IS GOOD AT STOPPING THE RUN, so theres no need in saying he did a good job bottling up CJ2K......all im getting at is Ray has slowed down a lot (which is natural) so why not an obvious 3rd down passing situation take him off the field for a LB with better MAN COVERAGE skills bcuz Ray has become a liability in that department that is all......why is that so hard for some of yall to understand?

[bmore187]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1316399967' post='797555']

Agree on both points. Ray Lewis is still a beast in the middle evidenced by his pick last week. Awareness makes up for what he lost in speed.
[/quote]

Victor Ortiz after getting decked by Mayweather couldve picked that particular pass off..... Yes Ray is still a beast but not because he got an INT that was TIPPED by Haloti Ngata and fell right into his hands

[MagicianCamille]

Ray Lewis can be our MLB on every down until Ray Lewis says otherwise.

[wayne]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1316416399' post='797830']

[b]Hines Ward last week ( whose nowhere close to being fleet of food )...........yes ray caused a FF on the play BUT it was after Ward was slowed up by another Raven then Ray jumped on him and hit the ball loose after like a 30 or so yd gain..[/b]......If you actually read my post i said RAY IS GOOD AT STOPPING THE RUN, so theres no need in saying he did a good job bottling up CJ2K......all im getting at is Ray has slowed down a lot (which is natural) so why not an obvious 3rd down passing situation take him off the field for a LB with better MAN COVERAGE skills bcuz Ray has become a liability in that department that is all......why is that so hard for some of yall to understand?
[/quote]

That's all the evidence you present? I'm sure Ray wasn't guarding Ward so unless you can prove that Ward was Ray's assignment, that statement is dead evidence. Also, for a person to be a liability in coverage and that's exposed, you should have numerous accounts of this happening to this person and lets pretend like Ward was Ray's assignment ( I would blame that more on the D-Coordinator to draw up a scheme that has a LB covering a WR anyway ), can you type up other evidence to prove this theory? Timmons is a liability in coverage I guess and mostly any LB that goes up against Ray Rice so to say that is str8 ludicrous without any hard core evidence.

Main job for a MLB playing the position of Ray.....1) Stuff the Run......2) Guard RB's coming out of the backfield for receptions........3) Keep TE's in check. The Titans TE's were held in check and CJ, one of the most baddest RB's on the planet was held in check and I thought he would get us with receptions but we locked that up. For CJ to have 20+ carries for around 50-60 yards is amazing considering his career average and even his last game, he would have had a great game had the coach run more plays for him ( like 9 carries last week I think and his YPC was good ).

Our problem was what we experienced last year, no pass rush and the CB's getting killed, mainly with quick passes , seam routes, and comeback routes....

[Milton145]

Ray Lewis still causes turnovers though and is an overall (pass covering and run stopping-wise) than our other LBs.

[rlh445]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1316416399' post='797830']
so why not an obvious 3rd down passing situation take him off the field for a LB with better MAN COVERAGE skills bcuz Ray has become a liability in that department that is all......why is that so hard for some of yall to understand?
[/quote]

Le sigh. Look, first of all there is no such thing as an obvious anything in football. 'Okay Ray, it's third down and they're probably gonna chuck the ball, Jameel's going in for you,'. *It's a run play and McClain whiffs the tackle* WHOOPS. Second of all, in no way has Ray become a liability in anything regarding the Ravens defense, in fact taking him out would be the liability. You see what the Colts are bringing to the table? That's because their general is out. If Ray (our general) wasn't in there today, even for one play every set of downs it would have been much worse then 26-13. This board gets pretty ridiculous sometimes. I get that you are of the opinion that Ray coming out on 'obvious' plays would be a good thing, but I'm just not sold on the idea that somehow Ray shouldn't be playing every defensive snap. It just doesn't make sense.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1316416399' post='797830']

Hines Ward last week ( whose nowhere close to being fleet of food )...........yes ray caused a FF on the play BUT it was after Ward was slowed up by another Raven then Ray jumped on him and hit the ball loose after like a 30 or so yd gain........If you actually read my post i said RAY IS GOOD AT STOPPING THE RUN, so theres no need in saying he did a good job bottling up CJ2K......all im getting at is Ray has slowed down a lot (which is natural) so why not an obvious 3rd down passing situation take him off the field for a LB with better MAN COVERAGE skills bcuz Ray has become a liability in that department that is all......why is that so hard for some of yall to understand?
[/quote]

Actually, the FF play was on Moore and not on Ward.

The Hines Ward play was the only one I can recall where Ray got beat. If you are complaining about 1 play then you should watch other LB across the league because they get beat much more then that.

In week 1 Chad Greenway was targeted 13 times and allowed 11 receptions. That is the definition of being picked on and beat often.

[nk02442]

It has been known for years (atleast 3) that ray sucks in coverage. He should never be on the field on 3rd down unless its 3-1 or 2.
He has been showing age for a while now, and even though he plays at a high level (top 5-7 MLB) he doesnt have the speed to drop into coverage. Get ellerbee in there for 3rd downs and let him develop.

[Militant X 1]

Ray's speed decline (not his football IQ) is his downfall on 3rd downs. and to be honest....i would attack him over the middle as well. definitely not blaming him for this loss it was a team effort. but, Ray may need to sit out on 3rd downs so that we can see who will be his replacement. they need to start getting a few reps in games now instead of later on.

~Mili

[Bltravens]

If we had a MLB who was actually good in coverage I would agree, but even B.A. isnt overly adept in coverage. McClain is terrible and Ellerbe never sees the field. So its not like we're losing out on anything with Ray on the field on 3rd downs.

[bayonetxwork]

While I understand the idea of taking Lewis off the field...I just can't begin to think I could trust any other LB in his place on 3rd down. Your right, hes not the best in man to man, or even zone for that matter...but I definitely think hes the best that we have. Not to mention the intangibles he brings on the field with him. I think the biggest thing was simply we didn't get to the quarterback. In our current scheme that Pagano brings to the table, you have to get to the quarterback...with the personnel we have all across the field, they cannot hang in coverage for more than 4 seconds. Something needed to be changed up front to alter the timing, rather than worrying about taking out one of the most important players on our roster simply because he lacks speed.

[Jamal]

Maybe if our other ILB's weren't scrubs...

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Ray is still Ray, that has not changes and honestly he is probably the biggest play maker on the team. Everybody is a little down after that performance, but a lot of people played terrible. Next game he is going to make a big play and we are all going to be singing his praises again.

Side not I remember a lot of people discussing this very thing last year before the buffalo game and even during because our D was playing terrible, and then Ray tipped that pass and it landed in reed's arm's and that talk dwindled quickly

[wayne]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1316443901' post='798031']
[b]It has been known for years (atleast 3) that ray sucks in coverage.[/b] He should never be on the field on 3rd down unless its 3-1 or 2.
He has been showing age for a while now, and even though he plays at a high level (top 5-7 MLB) he doesnt have the speed to drop into coverage. Get ellerbee in there for 3rd downs and let him develop.
[/quote]

Evidence please? Like someone stated, if you look acrosss the league, there are other LB's that are getting torched and Ray is not even close to that. LT torched the Cowboys LB's last week with receptions out the back field and the LB that was sticking him most of the time ( Sean Lee ) is like a 4.5 speed LB. Like I said, I guess Timmons is a liability in coverage then with how Ray Rice torched them, including that one reception for the TD where Timmons got beat badly? When you see Ray get beat like that, then come back and holla at me!

[CorvusCorax]

I get where people are coming from with their responses and so some extent I agree. However, he's still a game changer on the field and is very capable of making key stops in pressure situations. Once we get J. Smith and Carr back, I think we will be better off.

[wayne]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' timestamp='1316455226' post='798215']
[b]I get where people are coming from with their responses and so some extent I agree[/b]. However, he's still a game changer on the field and is very capable of making key stops in pressure situations. Once we get J. Smith and Carr back, I think we will be better off.
[/quote]

I would too if they can present valuable evidence to prove this claim. I'm sure I could find highlights on Patrick Willis and Jon Beason ( Timmons is one of the best MLB's in the game, especially covering and you see what Rice did to him and Co. the other day but that doesn't mean Timmons is a liability in coverage and should be taken out on 3rd downs either,lol. For the record, I have neva seen Ray get beat like that either ) getting beat in coverage and that doesn't mean they are a liability in coverage either. I just want someone to bring evidence forward on this and the Hines Ward deal is not good evidence and even if it was, it's one incident out of 2 games,lol.

Sure ,we all know Ray has lost a step, the man is 36 years old,lol....... but to say that it's evident by what you see on Sundays, I would have to disagree. Even if this was the case, Ray is the least of the team worries right now!

[Ed_Reed20]

It would be nice if the team had an ILB they could legitimately say was better than Ray in coverage. Between poor technique and mental lapses, Ellerbe and McClain have their issue in pass coverage too.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[i]• Ray Lewis was credited with just 5 tackles, but had his best game of the season. As a sidebar, many of you probably know that the term “coaches review” is equivalent to “not comparable” (some would say “artificially inflated”) when associated with tackle totals. The consistently applied and comparable tackle totals originate with the credit given in the Gamebook. By coaches review, Ray used to have many more credited tackles, but last night I thought Ray had tackles on consecutive plays (beginning Q3, 7:49) where he went uncredited in the Gamebook. On the first he took down Greene, but the tackle was credited to Pollard and Webb. On the second he pushed Greene out of bounds although JJ chased him there.

• In coverage, Lewis blanketed Dustin Keller, arguably the Jets best offensive weapon prior to Sunday, with a combination of position (Q4, 13:31 was in position for INT on low throw), hits (Q2, 2:30 stripped the ball loose), and fear (Q4, 9:23, Keller heard footsteps and dropped the pass). Keller was targeted 8 times with just 2 completions for 12 yards (9 came on a play where Ray registered the QH--Q2, 11:09).

• Ray twice knocked down Sanchez as a free runner (Q2, 11:09 and Q2, 2:23) and has become a more potent force with the frenzied pass rush the Ravens have created in their wins this season. Lewis has been able to effectively pick an opportunity as a delayed pass rusher to take advantage of the havoc in front of him. Ray forced another fumble (Q2, 3:32) from Greene which the Ravens did not recover and was negated by a holding penalty on Slauson.

• A play that will stick in my mind is the pursuit of LT to the sideline from Ngata and Lewis. Those 2 were even for a good while and Tomlinson was ultimately unable to turn the corner on Lewis.[/i]

That was from Filmstudy who posts on the Baltimore Sun message board and on Ravens 24X7

[i][size=1][b]2) His Best Year yet?[/b][/size]
[color=#FFFFFF] .[/color]
If you thought that [b]Rey Lewis[/b] ([color=#008000][b]+5.2[/b][/color]) was slowing down, then you should watch his performance against the Jets. It may not have been elite competition, but Lewis put on a clinic in this one. As a pass rusher, he had a hit on eight rushes, a slightly above average performance. He played a massive part in shutting down Sanchez’ safety blanket in [b]Dustin Keller[/b] limiting him to one catch on three targets with a pass deflection. Against the run, he had two tackles for short gains (and another stop) and a forced fumble. Lewis currently ranks as our best inside linebacker with a [color=#008000][b]+12.5[/b][/color] rating.[/i]


That was from Pro Football Focus.

Maybe we shouldn't count him out yet...

[lgcs27288]

He did say his best years were in front of him...

[JO_75]

[quote name='lgcs27288' timestamp='1317860941' post='817133']
He did say his [b]best[/b] [b]years[/b] were in front of him...
[/quote]

Well let's hope that means he plans on playing for another couple seasons. I think as long as Ray is still contributing and playing well, he won't retire but when he isn't he'll know when to retire.

[Ravensstrike4424]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1316392546' post='797311']
Now i know its hard to envision Ray Ray not playing every snap.......but i feel like he is a huge liability in the pass coverage department. Hes good at run stopping and blitzing, but he cant cover the middle of the field. Every time a team has like a 3rd n 6 (an obvious passing down) i know the opposition is going to attack us right n the middle of the field. Hopefully we can draft our next MLB superstar next April. I will always love Ray but i think the time has come to move on after this season.
[/quote]

no,your out of your mind,how dare you question Ray Lewis,Ray is Great in Coverage,we are 3-1 jesh,he wont be removed from 3rd downs,ill always support Ray,Ray Lewis is the Greatest Linebacker to play the game,he hasnt lost a step,get over your self,Ray is fine.

[AsianRice]

You can catch the ball in the middle, but can you hold on to the ball? ask Dustin Keller for info.......

[ravensfan...mostly lewis]

Ray makes plays. That pass thrown on him where he caught up and forced the fumble that Mcphee recovered is proof. Ray is slower, but I feel entirely comfortable with Ray in the middle. My $.02.

The Ravens org has him out there, therefor I feel it's the right decision. I trust whatever they go with

[Thepurplehaze]

Ray is master of the Forced Fumbles, and a tackling master. Perhaps we should have taken him off the field on this play.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrnDLXxVoFE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrnDLXxVoFE[/url]

[colljb9]

with the emergence of our cornerbacks why not put webb in that sort of linebacker/blitzer on 3rd downs cuz he can cover the middle of the field and is an outstanding tackler. That way we can put our other emerging corners covering the other wide receivers while having a good guy to cover over the middle

[Bltravens]

[quote name='colljb9' timestamp='1317868189' post='817185']
with the emergence of our cornerbacks why not put webb in that sort of linebacker/blitzer on 3rd downs cuz he can cover the middle of the field and is an outstanding tackler. That way we can put our other emerging corners covering the other wide receivers while having a good guy to cover over the middle
[/quote]
You need LBs on the field, regardless of how good a tackler Webb is in the open field, on a 3rd and 5 draw play he would get pancaked by an Olineman.

[Ravensstrike4424]

i hope all who agree with the OP,get -100 or something

[Thepurplehaze]

[quote name='colljb9' timestamp='1317868189' post='817185']
with the emergence of our cornerbacks why not put webb in that sort of linebacker/blitzer on 3rd downs cuz he can cover the middle of the field and is an outstanding tackler. That way we can put our other emerging corners covering the other wide receivers while having a good guy to cover over the middle
[/quote]
yeah what...? Webb at linebacker....I've heard it all now. Maybe we can put koch at QB? Or Harbaugh at SS...

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='JohnnyBoy8102' timestamp='1317860754' post='817132']
....

That was from Pro Football Focus.

Maybe we shouldn't count him out yet...
[/quote]

He played really well against the Jets but the Ravens will face better passing games than the one New York has this season. Ray shouldn't be taken off the field on third downs but he should be blitzing more than he drops back into coverage.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1316454374' post='798192']Maybe if our other ILB's weren't scrubs...[/quote]

This.

Also it seems like nobody noticed him shut down Dustin Keller over the middle.