Where Was Pollard?

[The Raven]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316484817' post='798856']
Ellerbe, Barnes come to mind pretty fast.
[/quote]

LOL. Barnes. the guy that got cut by Philly after we traded him. The guy that is STILL a backup in San Diego. But he's the better player afterall......

[The Raven]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316485067' post='798860']
He fits our defensive identity more. I think he has a nasty streak. Landry was better then Zibby.... I think Pollard is better then Landry.
[/quote]

I really do appreciate his nasty streak. I love that about him, dont get me wrong, but I'd prefer a better coverage guy out there..

[gabefergy]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316485140' post='798863']

I really do appreciate his nasty streak. I love that about him, dont get me wrong, but I'd prefer a better coverage guy out there..
[/quote]
Thank you. You seem to be one of the few with some common sense in here. I'm all for having "playmakers", but sometimes guys need to just know their role and fill it. Not every player is going to rack up tons of tackles, FFs, and Ints, but they are still key parts of the defense!

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316486993' post='798884']
Thank you. You seem to be one of the few with some common sense in here. I'm all for having "playmakers", but sometimes guys need to just know their role and fill it. Not every player is going to rack up tons of tackles, FFs, and Ints, but they are still key parts of the defense!
[/quote]

I'll toast to that, everyone can't be a superstar, we are in the salary cap era, but having guys that are consistent and play their parts is what it's all about. Good post.

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

Pollard wouldn't of made a difference in that game but Zibby is far better than Pollard in coverage. In running situation or in situations where we want to blitz the SS for pressure, Pollard needs to be on the field and in clear passing situations Zibby needs to be on. Pollard was one of the reasons Houston had a horrible pass defense last year it's widely known he is well below average in pass coverage.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' timestamp='1316392001' post='797295']
My thoughts exactly. We had the run bottled up for the most part. Britt was our issue. [b]I said I wouldn't come into ravens talk[/b]. Grrrr.
[/quote]

it pulled you in like a magnet! lol!

~Mili

[OdinsRavens]

[quote name='EnVy_CaLiBeR' timestamp='1316487722' post='798892']
Pollard wouldn't of made a difference in that game but Zibby is far better than Pollard in coverage. In running situation or in situations where we want to blitz the SS for pressure, Pollard needs to be on the field and in clear passing situations Zibby needs to be on. Pollard was one of the reasons Houston had a horrible pass defense last year it's widely known he is well below average in pass coverage.
[/quote]


How can you guys keep saying this... When does zibby do ANYTHING in the passing game other then tackle someone after they have already caught the ball... He doesn't even hit them hard when he does make the tackle. I'm pretty sure Pollard can run over after someone has caught the ball and tackle them too... Zibby NEVER makes any significant plays during the game...

[Ngata92NT]

Wow, this thread is pretty ridiculous IMO. I love Pollard and I wish he could see more snaps on defense, I also think he should start over Zibby. But where is all the criticism of Zibby coming from? Zibby didn't make any big plays but I didn't see him give up any either... even ED REED gave up several big plays in this game. Our whole defense looks horrible and somehow Zibby is responsible for not making a game-changing play? Give the man a break... The corners were a liability in this game, not our safeties. Zibby is as good in coverage as Pollard, if not better. I can't blame the coaching staff for starting him, even if I'd rather see Pollard out there. Zibby isn't going to make as many big plays but he's a safer option than Pollard and more consistent in coverage.

Though we definitely should've tried a few more blitzes with Pollard... make it happen Chuck! haha

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1316492372' post='798944']
Wow, this thread is pretty ridiculous IMO. I love Pollard and I wish he could see more snaps on defense, I also think he should start over Zibby. But where is all the criticism of Zibby coming from? Zibby didn't make any big plays but I didn't see him give up any either... even ED REED gave up several big plays in this game. Our whole defense looks horrible and somehow Zibby is responsible for not making a game-changing play? Give the man a break... The corners were a liability in this game, not our safeties. Zibby is as good in coverage as Pollard, if not better. I can't blame the coaching staff for starting him, even if I'd rather see Pollard out there. Zibby isn't going to make as many big plays but he's a safer option than Pollard and more consistent in coverage.

Though we definitely should've tried a few more blitzes with Pollard... make it happen Chuck! haha
[/quote]

Totally agree with you, and also nicely put

[OdinsRavens]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1316492372' post='798944']
Wow, this thread is pretty ridiculous IMO. I love Pollard and I wish he could see more snaps on defense, I also think he should start over Zibby. But where is all the criticism of Zibby coming from? Zibby didn't make any big plays but I didn't see him give up any either... even ED REED gave up several big plays in this game. Our whole defense looks horrible and somehow Zibby is responsible for not making a game-changing play? Give the man a break... The corners were a liability in this game, not our safeties. Zibby is as good in coverage as Pollard, if not better. I can't blame the coaching staff for starting him, even if I'd rather see Pollard out there. Zibby isn't going to make as many big plays but he's a safer option than Pollard and more consistent in coverage.

Though we definitely should've tried a few more blitzes with Pollard... make it happen Chuck! haha
[/quote]

I'm not just talking about this game... I'm talking about every game he plays in. For the record I've never liked him...I've always thought that Nakamura has looked better. Tell me the last time he intercepted the ball, deflected a pass, made a sack or forced a fumble... All because he goes unnoticed doesn't mean he is doing a good job.
kind of like Torrey Smith... Yeah he is running around doing "stuff" but where is his production?

[CalvinSmoke]

I just think there are bigger problems in our defense than Zibby. that's all

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

[quote name='OdinsRavens' timestamp='1316490806' post='798931']


How can you guys keep saying this... When does zibby do ANYTHING in the passing game other then tackle someone after they have already caught the ball... He doesn't even hit them hard when he does make the tackle. I'm pretty sure Pollard can run over after someone has caught the ball and tackle them too... Zibby NEVER makes any significant plays during the game...
[/quote]
Lmao. People are acting like we're sitting a perennial all star on the bench. Pollard is a good run defender and blitzer but he doesn't even cover better than Landry did when he was here and Landry was utterly average at best. It's a passing league and the team knows that which is why I believe Zibby still has the starting nod along with the fact that he is more familiar with the playbook because Pollard is still relatively new to the team with no offseason to get full grasp of the playbook.

Whether we put Zibby or Pollard in, it still won't stop our corners from getting killed when left on an island anyway so this debate is pretty useless.

[The Raven]

[quote name='EnVy_CaLiBeR' timestamp='1316505257' post='799003']
Lmao. People are acting like we're sitting a perennial all star on the bench. Pollard is a good run defender and blitzer but he doesn't even cover better than Landry did when he was here and Landry was utterly average at best. It's a passing league and the team knows that which is why I believe Zibby still has the starting nod along with the fact that he is more familiar with the playbook because Pollard is still relatively new to the team with no offseason to get full grasp of the playbook.

Whether we put Zibby or Pollard in, it still won't stop our corners from getting killed when left on an island anyway so this debate is pretty useless.
[/quote]

Exactly!!!

What I think is also funny is every single time, somebody asks "when did Zibby screw up", they either get no response, or they say "Pollard's just better" lol! Like, you're entitled to your opinion and all, but are you incapable of defending it?

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316486993' post='798884']
Thank you. You seem to be one of the few with some common sense in here. I'm all for having "playmakers", but sometimes guys need to just know their role and fill it. Not every player is going to rack up tons of tackles, FFs, and Ints, but they are still key parts of the defense!
[/quote]


Ok, case in point.... Zibby gets gobble up by the TE on 4th and Goal to give up the edge and allow Ringer to score a TD, EASILY. An example of him not being physical enough....

How about when Zibby comes late to the party on 3rd and 8 and Allows Britt to catch a ball for the gain of around 20... With a hitter back there AKA Pollard, he puts a shot on him and makes him think about coming over the middle AGAIN. Even if the catch is made, there is a level of respect that has to happen when you've got someone who is willing to destroy guys.


You're looking for examples of his poor play.. I'm asking for examples of his good play...

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316486993' post='798884']
Thank you. You seem to be one of the few with some common sense in here. I'm all for having "playmakers", but sometimes guys need to just know their role and fill it. Not every player is going to rack up tons of tackles, FFs, and Ints, but they are still key parts of the defense!
[/quote]

Either you're the nail or the hammer, Zibby is NEVER the hammer...

[H8R]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316516491' post='799027']

Exactly!!!

What I think is also funny is every single time, somebody asks "when did Zibby screw up", they either get no response, or they say "Pollard's just better" lol! Like, you're entitled to your opinion and all, but are you incapable of defending it?
[/quote]

I've stated my opinion, you've asked for examples... I've given you soome... Now, it's YOUR TURN to give an example of him doing something better then avg....

[Slim]

I think both have a lot to prove and since Zibby knows the system better I understand their decision but I still think Zibby doesn't play like a strong safety is supposed to, I remember Landry was a lot better in helping stoppin the run and i saw him deliver a couple of vicious hits on some Wrs... We can't just cover and say ok we control the zone, a strong safety is also a guy who takes some risks and needs his present to be felt... Zibby for me, has proven to be a good Free Safety when Ed was injured, but never showed anything but being very conservative while playing Strong Safety, which isn't bad don't get me wrong.

[H8R]

Give me the guy who 's fearless and direct instead of the guy who's tenative and passive. This isn't the boxing ring, Zibby. You're not figthing cupcakes here...

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316482152' post='798789']


I'm not saying have 2 centerfielders. I'm not saying don't be creative.[b] I'm saying that a SS that can't cover is not a safety, he's a backer.[/b] A DB's primary job is what? To be in coverage? Oddly enough, that is Pollards weakness. He's an undersized LB imo.

I can assure you, there is a reason that Pollard is on the bench.
[/quote]


just about everybody I know would say troy polamalu is a safety, he is actually argued as the best in the league. I dont think his coverage skills are what makes him great, but who knows, I mean that is only how dick lebeaux chooses to use him, but what does he know right?

[OdinsRavens]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316520163' post='799038']


Ok, case in point.... Zibby gets gobble up by the TE on 4th and Goal to give up the edge and allow Ringer to score a TD, EASILY. An example of him not being physical enough....

How about when Zibby comes late to the party on 3rd and 8 and Allows Britt to catch a ball for the gain of around 20... With a hitter back there AKA Pollard, he puts a shot on him and makes him think about coming over the middle AGAIN. Even if the catch is made, there is a level of respect that has to happen when you've got someone who is willing to destroy guys.


You're looking for examples of his poor play.. I'm asking for examples of his good play...
[/quote]

You guys are ignoring this... You keep defending Zibby and saying how ridiculous it is that we are hating on him... Give us some examples of his good play that validates him being out there.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316520163' post='799038']


Ok, case in point.... Zibby gets gobble up by the TE on 4th and Goal to give up the edge and allow Ringer to score a TD, EASILY. An example of him not being physical enough....

How about when Zibby comes late to the party on 3rd and 8 and Allows Britt to catch a ball for the gain of around 20... With a hitter back there AKA Pollard, he puts a shot on him and makes him think about coming over the middle AGAIN. Even if the catch is made, there is a level of respect that has to happen when you've got someone who is willing to destroy guys.


You're looking for examples of his poor play.. I'm asking for examples of his good play...
[/quote]
You are just assuming that Pollard would make those plays. I'll give you the 4th and 1 situation. That should be a play where Pollard was in there, but a TE [i]should[/i] beat a safety in a 1v1 block in space. To be honest that was just an extremely well designed play that our entire defense failed on. I didnt DVR the Tennessee game because I wasnt home, but from what I remember of the game most of the big receptions were on the CBs and one was on Reed. Unless Zibby was just standing around doing nothing the obvious assumption should be his responsibility on that play was shut down. I guess thats what I mean by guys doing their jobs on defense and not getting all the accolades. Maybe he should gamble more and try to make some breaks for the ball, but isnt that what we have Ed for?

I like what I've seen from Pollard and I think he should be on the field a lot, but I just dont understand the hatred towards Zibby, calling him "trash" and "terrible". II think they both have roles on this defense, and we should trust that our Defensive Coordinator with a long background in coaching the secondary knows what he is doing.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1316390157' post='797203']
I didn't see him on the injury report the entire week. Did he even dress?

Either way, today you saw exactly why there is NO WAY Zbikowski should be starting or playing over Pollard.


And just to rant a little further...


The entire defense looked stale, and I refuse to believe Matt Hasselback just "has our number." That was a horrible defensive game. (Yes, the offense was bad but nobody wants to hear me talk about that.)

Why in the world would you have your 4th or 5th corner on the other team's only real receiving threat? We had FOXWORTH on Britt. Not Cary Williams. Not Lardarius Webb. But the guy recovering from injury,,,, small, tiny, puny... Foxworth.
[/quote]
He was in at the end of the game, too little, too late. He should have been in there at the beginning. Heck he played well against the Stealers so i dont understand it either.

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316557250' post='799811']

You are just assuming that Pollard would make those plays. I'll give you the 4th and 1 situation. That should be a play where Pollard was in there, but a TE [i]should[/i] beat a safety in a 1v1 block in space. To be honest that was just an extremely well designed play that our entire defense failed on. I didnt DVR the Tennessee game because I wasnt home, but from what I remember of the game most of the big receptions were on the CBs and one was on Reed. Unless Zibby was just standing around doing nothing the obvious assumption should be his responsibility on that play was shut down. I guess thats what I mean by guys doing their jobs on defense and not getting all the accolades. Maybe he should gamble more and try to make some breaks for the ball, but isnt that what we have Ed for?

I like what I've seen from Pollard and I think he should be on the field a lot, but I just dont understand the hatred towards Zibby, calling him "trash" and "terrible". II think they both have roles on this defense, and we should trust that our Defensive Coordinator with a long background in coaching the secondary knows what he is doing.
[/quote]

If you read my post, I even stated that Pollard might have not changed the plays outcome.... A lot of football is won by intimidation.... if a WR knows he's going to get the crap knocked out of him, he generally is a little uneasy going over the middle. A hard hitter will pay dividends.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316558547' post='799829']
If you read my post, I even stated that Pollard might have not changed the plays outcome.... A lot of football is won by intimidation.... if a WR knows he's going to get the crap knocked out of him, he generally is a little uneasy going over the middle. A hard hitter will pay dividends.
[/quote]
There is definitely some truth to that, but if Pollard is out there on every play I think he would be targeted and exposed. Of course I dont know this for sure, and the only way to know for sure is if he gets the reps. I guess we just have to wait and see how the season unfolds.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316539484' post='799352']


just about everybody I know would say troy polamalu is a safety, he is actually argued as the best in the league. I dont think his coverage skills are what makes him great, but who knows, I mean that is only how dick lebeaux chooses to use him, but what does he know right?
[/quote]

You are missing my point entirely

At least Troy's coverage is respectable. Everybody and their mother knows that Pollard is bad in coverage.

[The Raven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316557250' post='799811']
You [b]are just assuming that Pollard would make those plays. I'll give you the 4th and 1 situation. That should be a play where Pollard was in there, but a TE [i]should[/i] beat a safety in a 1v1 block in space. To be honest that was just an extremely well designed play that our entire defense failed on.[/b] I didnt DVR the Tennessee game because I wasnt home, but from what I remember of the game most of the big receptions were on the CBs and one was on Reed. Unless Zibby was just standing around doing nothing the obvious assumption should be his responsibility on that play was shut down. I guess thats what I mean by guys doing their jobs on defense and not getting all the accolades. Maybe he should gamble more and try to make some breaks for the ball, but isnt that what we have Ed for?

I like what I've seen from Pollard and I think he should be on the field a lot, but I just dont understand the hatred towards Zibby, calling him "trash" and "terrible". II think they both have roles on this defense, and we should trust that our Defensive Coordinator with a long background in coaching the secondary knows what he is doing.
[/quote]

Thanks for confirming that I'm not the only one that understands football concepts. How do we expect Zibby to hold up to a TE who has roughly 30-40 pounds on him? Beats me. Where were the OLB's on the contain? It's their job to contain!

Guess ya wanna bench Suggs and JJ for Kruger and Kindle, cuz they screwed up too...

That was a very well designed and executed play though. One of the best misdirection plays I've seen.

[CalvinSmoke]

actually Troy is constantly trying to get exposed. But the Steelers move Troy around so it's hard to really get him, if Troy would have been in the NFL 30 years or go or so, when the best defenses ran the 4-6... he'd be the greatest of all time! But this pass happy, flag football like era isn't doing Troy or Pollard any favors in the passing game if they aren't blitzing

[FIrmkiller187]

All i want to know is how they do so well againt the pass facing Pitt with Pollard in. Then turn around and take him out against Tenn. and get their as^*$ aired out lol. Coach I hope you or someone from the team is reading these post, but yall need Pollard out with ED. He can't do it all by himself, and Zyb was no help last week. Look at the Pitt game and look at Tenn game Yall need my man out there his presence is that much more.

B-More 4 Life

[CalvinSmoke]

We'll see, i'm sure Pollard will get his time, and we'll see what he does with it

[Bltravens]

I like Pollard strictly for the presence he brings. The dude is a truck and plays reckless I like it. Its great having a physical presence back there at the LOS and around the 15 yard range. You just have to use him much like Landry was used. Pagano uses Z more like Will Demps was used to let Ed just run around the field all crazy. Ed's been doing the old things he used to back in the day as opposed to being Willie Mays like he's been since 07.