Where Was Pollard?

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316402161' post='797630']
What exactly do u see that makes Zibby bad in coverage? What that? You have nothing, oh ok.
[/quote]
And what have you seen since pollard has been a raven that makes you think he is not. Pollard was better in preseason in very aspect of being a safety than Zibby, And yeah sure it may have been pre-season but Pollard is the better S and needs to get his shots.

[FerrariFan87]

We needed Pollard's intensity out there. Zibby just doesn't have that kind of impact. He's an ok player, but definitely not a difference-maker.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316456688' post='798242']
And what have you seen since pollard has been a raven that makes you think he is not. Pollard was better in preseason in very aspect of being a safety than Zibby, And yeah sure it may have been pre-season but Pollard is the better S and needs to get his shots.
[/quote]
that was the preseason. Pollard has a history of being terrible in coverage. Zibby has done well for several years now. Its that simple. None of the big plays that we let up against Tenn were on Zibby, so how would Pollard have helped? It wouldnt have, in fact he probably would have given up more big plays.

[PurpleReign92]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316457014' post='798248']
that was the preseason. Pollard has a history of being terrible in coverage. Zibby has done well for several years now. Its that simple. None of the big plays that we let up against Tenn were on Zibby, so how would Pollard have helped? It wouldnt have, in fact he probably would have given up more big plays.
[/quote]
Some people didn't even show up Mentally or Physically!

[Suggs Package]

The days of the strong safety are ending. Nowadays, you need two free safety types guys back there who can cover because QBs throw 50 times a game. We shut down CJ2K with our front 7. This is why Pollard didn't get many reps. And Pollard isn't as good in coverage.

For you all who say put Pollard in because he can blitz, the blitzing is what got our defense in trouble in the first place. There was no way we were going to sack Hasselback when there were no coverage behind it. This is the whole premise of the WCO, to get the ball out as fast as possible and leaving our dbs on islands did nothing to help that. Someone's always gonna be open with 4 players in coverage. If anything, we needed to blitz far less. Ed Reed the hall of fame FS, was playing Nickelback half the time because there weren't enough players back there. As crazy as it sounds, the coverage would have forced more pressure on the QB.

[Bullrush]

Zibby is playing well. Unlike most DB's on this team he's a sure tackler and he's where he's supposed to be. Pollard is abysmal against the pass. We sucked against the pass yesterday. How does putting him on the field when you're struggling against pass make any sense?

Had CJ rushed for 200 yards I would have been with you. But that wasn't the case.

[CalvinSmoke]

In all fairness, Pollard was the starting safety for the Texans? and if i'm right i'll also add that the Texans pass defense was GOD AWEFUL in recent years. I like the idea of the big guy running around and hitting people in the mouth, but i don't think he would be the answer. We needed to jam recievers and generate a rush last week, and we couldnt do it, regardless of who we put out there. No use in burrying Zibs.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316457014' post='798248']
that was the preseason. Pollard has a history of being terrible in coverage. Zibby has done well for several years now. Its that simple. None of the big plays that we let up against Tenn were on Zibby, so how would Pollard have helped? It wouldnt have, in fact he probably would have given up more big plays.
[/quote]

So if pre-season does not count than cary williams gets cut and is for sure not our starter. You cant have it both ways either it counts or it does not. And Pollard is the more complete safety. As to his history with coverage issues. The chiefs run a quarter, quarter half defense, which is more dependent on the FS for coverage and the SS playing around the LOS. Not to mention that in Crennel's system that it is very hard for the FS to cover because usually he is going forward and then all of the sudden has to change into a back pedal. There is a reason that Crennel's defenses have always relied on the front seven unstead of the back four.
And to assume does no good because honestly you cant impute performance based on an opinion, that can also be said the other way who knows if when reed jumps that route that pollard is in teh right spot (unlike Zibby) and we dont get burned on the play.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316463353' post='798391']

So if pre-season does not count than cary williams gets cut and is for sure not our starter. You cant have it both ways either it counts or it does not. And Pollard is the more complete safety. As to his history with coverage issues. The chiefs run a quarter, quarter half defense, which is more dependent on the FS for coverage and the SS playing around the LOS. Not to mention that in Crennel's system that it is very hard for the FS to cover because usually he is going forward and then all of the sudden has to change into a back pedal. There is a reason that Crennel's defenses have always relied on the front seven unstead of the back four.
And to assume does no good because honestly you cant impute performance based on an opinion, that can also be said the other way who knows if when reed jumps that route that pollard is in teh right spot (unlike Zibby) and we dont get burned on the play.
[/quote]
I was referring more to Pollard's play in Houston than in KC, but he has never been good no matter where he plays. KC cut him after two years. Last season was his best and he was just average. The season before he was graded as the worst safety in the league in coverage. Houston's pass-defense was abysmal last season, and who was their starting SS? Bernard Pollard. All of that points to the obvious: Bernard Pollard is not a great coverage safety. He is a [b]Box Safety[/b]. We all knew this when he was signed. I'm not sure who started the start Pollard hype train, but he has [i]never[/i] shown the ability to consistently cover receivers man to man. You want to start him because he picked off a 3rd string QB in the preseason? I am no way hating on Pollard, I just know what he is. He is 6-2, 225, more of a LB than a safety tbh. He just doesnt have the coverage skills to be a 3 down safety, especially when we have a guy like Zibby who compliments Pollard perfectly.

What really gets me is the notion that Zibby is somehow poor in coverage. All you Zbikowski haters keep saying this and have absolutely [i]zero evidence[/i] to support your fantastical claims. Show me some plays where Zibby got burned, or is in the wrong position as you like to claim. I saw a lot of CBs getting beat, but thats about it.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316470617' post='798555']
I was referring more to Pollard's play in Houston than in KC, but he has never been good no matter where he plays. KC cut him after two years. Last season was his best and he was just average. The season before he was graded as the worst safety in the league in coverage. Houston's pass-defense was abysmal last season, and who was their starting SS? Bernard Pollard. All of that points to the obvious: Bernard Pollard is not a great coverage safety. He is a [b]Box Safety[/b]. We all knew this when he was signed. I'm not sure who started the start Pollard hype train, but he has [i]never[/i] shown the ability to consistently cover receivers man to man. You want to start him because he picked off a 3rd string QB in the preseason? I am no way hating on Pollard, I just know what he is. He is 6-2, 225, more of a LB than a safety tbh. He just doesnt have the coverage skills to be a 3 down safety, especially when we have a guy like Zibby who compliments Pollard perfectly.

What really gets me is the notion that Zibby is somehow poor in coverage. All you Zbikowski haters keep saying this and have absolutely [i]zero evidence[/i] to support your fantastical claims. Show me some plays where Zibby got burned, or is in the wrong position as you like to claim. I saw a lot of CBs getting beat, but thats about it.
[/quote]

Again he was cut by the chiefs because he did not fit what they were trying to do defensively.

As for last year in houston, he had over a 100 tackles that is far from average.

And he is 26 far from being old or uncoachable, and maybe he did pick off a 3rd string guy but that is more than Zibby has done lately. I am not sure who started the Zibby hype, he was being discussed as a backup 6 months ago and now he is being mentioned like it is a no brainer.

Cant really prove it but I think Pollard is the better athlete (In football terms of course) And I dont have flashplayer at work so I cant post video, and not sure how to upload video's from a tv.

[The Raven]

Lol at people saying we need to start Pollard because he can blitz and play the run. He's a defensive back. Not a linebacker. Linebackers blitz. Linebackers stop the run. Defensive backs are responsble for coverage. Which, by the way, is something that Pollard is bad at. And that is well documented. I don't even know where all this Zbikowski hate came from. It's the CB's, not the S's, that screwed up.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316471314' post='798564']
Lol at people saying we need to start Pollard because he can blitz and play the run. He's a defensive back. Not a linebacker.[b] Linebackers blitz. Linebackers stop the run.[/b] Defensive backs are responsble for coverage. Which, by the way, is something that Pollard is bad at. And that is well documented. I don't even know where all this Zbikowski hate came from. It's the CB's, not the S's, that screwed up.
[/quote]

that is greg mattison 101, not creativity whatsoever. I would say webb blitzing has worked out OK.

[H8R]

I'm tired of people saying Zibby is better on coverage.... he didn't contest a pass from what I remember..... Pollard should be starting Zibby is TRASH.

[H8R]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316471314' post='798564']
Lol at people saying we need to start Pollard because he can blitz and play the run. He's a defensive back. Not a linebacker. Linebackers blitz. Linebackers stop the run. Defensive backs are responsble for coverage. Which, by the way, is something that Pollard is bad at. And that is well documented. I don't even know where all this Zbikowski hate came from. It's the CB's, not the S's, that screwed up.
[/quote]

You can't have 2 center fielders... Zibby is always waaaay to Deep to stop anything over the middle. I contribute this to his poor speed, poor instinct and slow decision making.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316476490' post='798656']
I'm tired of people saying Zibby is better on coverage.... he didn't contest a pass from what I remember..... Pollard should be starting Zibby is TRASH.
[/quote]
Ok man, that's your opinion. It's completely unfounded but you're welcome to it.

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316476733' post='798664']

Ok man, that's your opinion. It's completely unfounded but you're welcome to it.
[/quote]

The tape speaks for its self...... give me an example of when he's played well.....

[EdPick6RiverStix]

I wouldve started pollard over zibby simply for the fact that he was with the texans last season n has more familarity with the titans. Also another thing to consider is the titans has a new coach n probably some new wrinkles on their offensive scheme that our D wasnt prepared for. One of our strength in our D is being able to decipher what play is coming before the ball is snapped n anticipate...we lacked in that department yesterday. If we see em in the playoffs i have no doubt that we'll be ready, thats how it usually is with ravens vs titans, they beat us in reg season but we murk em when it matters. we were outplayed, out coached, n seem to be one step behind yesterday but We will be aight!

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316478800' post='798705']
The tape speaks for its self...... give me an example of when he's played well.....
[/quote]
Show me the tape. If he has played so poorly, why is he still starting? I have to believe the coaches know who is a better fit than you do (no offense). It seems to me that we just have differing opinions. I have seen a lot of good things from Zibby. Hes not a huge hitter like Pollard, but he makes the plays he needs to in the run game, and I still contend that he is good in coverage. Can you at least point out the plays where he has been burned so bad?

[CalvinSmoke]

Guys gotta stop panicking, really... Zibs did just fine last week, and he'll do just fine down the road. Us Raven fans got spoiled because we saw what the Ravens can do when they are clicking on ALL cylinders. but the Titans did two things we dont see often at all in the AFC North: 4-3 defense, and a West Coast Offense... and on top of that we had injury problems. We'll be just fine our team is good, very good. Zibs can only do so much, Reed had his problems too, pretty much which ever side of the field Kenny Britt lined up on, that safety looked bad lol.

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316479626' post='798725']

Show me the tape. If he has played so poorly, why is he still starting? I have to believe the coaches know who is a better fit than you do (no offense). It seems to me that we just have differing opinions. I have seen a lot of good things from Zibby. Hes not a huge hitter like Pollard, but he makes the plays he needs to in the run game, and I still contend that he is good in coverage. Can you at least point out the plays where he has been burned so bad?
[/quote]

DVR the game and watch it. Point to me where he made a game changing play and not just a desperation tackle. Our defense is made on big plays. He does NOT provide this.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316480589' post='798745']
DVR the game and watch it. Point to me where he made a game changing play and not just a desperation tackle. Our defense is made on big plays. He does NOT provide this.
[/quote]
Wow, so your argument for Zibby not starting is he doesnt make big hits? Thats so foolish I dont even know where to begin.

[CNC]

I wonder if I could post now, I've been suspended.....But I'll try...Look, Zibby is terrible man, he is the Foxy of the safety position. He was just average when he took Ed Reed's place. No Big plays though. I want to see big plays. And If Pollard cant cover.....(which I really don't believe. I think he was just trying too hard to make up for the Texans horrible defense). I THink we should try to go after Darren Sharper....He's still out there. I mean...It couldn't hurt, We KNOW he could cover... and do it better than anyone not named Ed Reed.... Just a thought

[The Raven]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316471783' post='798570']

that is greg mattison 101, not creativity whatsoever. I would say webb blitzing has worked out OK.
[/quote]
[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316476690' post='798661']
You can't have 2 center fielders... Zibby is always waaaay to Deep to stop anything over the middle. I contribute this to his poor speed, poor instinct and slow decision making.
[/quote]


I'm not saying have 2 centerfielders. I'm not saying don't be creative. I'm saying that a SS that can't cover is not a safety, he's a backer. A DB's primary job is what? To be in coverage? Oddly enough, that is Pollards weakness. He's an undersized LB imo.

I can assure you, there is a reason that Pollard is on the bench.

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1316480852' post='798753']

Wow, so your argument for Zibby not starting is he doesnt make big hits? Thats so foolish I dont even know where to begin.
[/quote]
Where did I say ANYTHING about big hits? A pass deflection, force a fumble, intercept a pass, tackle for loss.... he's not a playmaker.

[CalvinSmoke]

Regarding the idea of Zibby not making game changing plays, i could be wrong but i consider that a good thing to a certain degree. We can't have two safeties that are constantly gambling if they both aren't superstars. Reed is our playmaker, he's the only player that has the green light in our secondary but:
[quote name='CNC' timestamp='1316481866' post='798781']
I wonder if I could post now, I've been suspended.....But I'll try...Look, Zibby is terrible man, he is the Foxy of the safety position. He was just average when he took Ed Reed's place. No Big plays though. I want to see big plays. And If Pollard cant cover.....(which I really don't believe. I think he was just trying too hard to make up for the Texans horrible defense). I THink we should try to go after Darren Sharper....He's still out there. I mean...It couldn't hurt, We KNOW he could cover... and do it better than anyone not named Ed Reed.... Just a thought
[/quote]


I'm certainly not apposed to possibly having Darren Sharper :-)

[H8R]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316482152' post='798789']




I'm not saying have 2 centerfielders. I'm not saying don't be creative. I'm saying that a SS that can't cover is not a safety, he's a backer. A DB's primary job is what? To be in coverage? Oddly enough, that is Pollards weakness. He's an undersized LB imo.

I can assure you, there is a reason that Pollard is on the bench.
[/quote]

It wouldn't be the first time a better player sat on the bench.....

[The Raven]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316484287' post='798845']
It wouldn't be the first time a better player sat on the bench.....
[/quote]

Why are you so convinced he's a better player? What are you basing that on? Give me concrete evidence sir.

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1316484287' post='798845']
It wouldn't be the first time a better player sat on the bench.....
[/quote]

I'm curious, who are you referring to when you say "first time"?

[H8R]

Ellerbe, Barnes come to mind pretty fast.

[H8R]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316484411' post='798847']


Why are you so convinced he's a better player? What are you basing that on? Give me concrete evidence sir.
[/quote]

He fits our defensive identity more. I think he has a nasty streak. Landry was better then Zibby.... I think Pollard is better then Landry.