MERGED: Week 2 Complaints about Offense

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Mick0311' timestamp='1316550611' post='799642']


I'm not saying he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He has his bad games. I have just as much to say this week as you had to say after week one, which is nothing. So shut it. I'm going to give him time to grow, and if you don't see improvement from him over the course of his three year career, than you are at odds with a whole coaching staff in the NFL and at odds with reality. You cannot judge him from game-to-game, that is not fair, and rather silly. Improvement in this game is like tracking improvement in the stock market, it takes time and you will see down ticks, but the trend is upward and to deny that is a willing suspension of reality. Let's not forget that this guy wasn't supposed to be a first year impact player, he needed time to develop, and develop he has. Don't play the game-to-game comparison, and don't attribute that type of childish analysis to me either. It's the big picture...not week two's performance.
[/quote]
My man well written but missing facts, The fact is he is still doing some of the same things he has done in years past not to be considered elite. When you turn on game tape of this guy you are left scratching your head. Holds the ball, stares down receivers and i dont know how he got the nickname Joe cool because after a few hits he is rattled. Put your stock in that.

[Blex64]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1316551072' post='799659']
Joe's pocket presence was amazing sunday. His makeshift line fell apart a lot and he kept his eyes down field while buying some time as he rolled out of the pocket. The only problem I saw was that their was no one open! Maybe I was too harsh on him for lacking the QB intelligence to have an eye on the play clock but he did look really good Sunday. When their was no play he would throw it away instead of taking a sack.
[/quote]

This is EXACTLY what I saw. We didn't have the Oline or the receivers (with Lee being slowed down) for him to get the deep game going. He stepped up so many times and had to throw it away or check it down. He tried to force it to the middle of the field when he got frustrated and he got picked off for it.

[Blex64]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1316551879' post='799694']
My man well written but missing facts, The fact is he is still doing some of the same things he has done in years past not to be considered elite. When you turn on game tape of this guy you are left scratching your head. Holds the ball, stares down receivers and i dont know how he got the nickname Joe cool because after a few hits he is rattled. Put your stock in that.
[/quote]

Please just shutup. You've shown nothing but ignorance, a lack of knowledge, and an inability to learn over the past couple pages.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1316527277' post='799133']
The D started out flat. They couldn't get no push since start of game. Give props to Titans line.
Ok look Flacco sucked this Sunday he looked like doo doo, is that what you want to hear? But so DID the rest of team! There all to blame.
[/quote]
agreed

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1316551879' post='799694']
My man well written but missing facts, The fact is he is still doing some of the same things he has done in years past not to be considered elite. When you turn on game tape of this guy you are left scratching your head. Holds the ball, stares down receivers and i dont know how he got the nickname Joe cool because after a few hits he is rattled. Put your stock in that.
[/quote]
Would you say he is more like "Joe Confused"?

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='bpytnjr58' timestamp='1316552113' post='799704']
Would you say he is more like "Joe Confused"?
[/quote]
Not yet. He will look great next week against St. louis then revert back to Joe against the Jets

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316551963' post='799697']

Please just shutup. You've shown nothing but ignorance, a lack of knowledge, and an inability to learn over the past couple pages.
[/quote]
Blex what makes you a Pro? Have you ever even played football? High school, or otherwise, you internet guys are funny as can be ignorant this and that ( play then talk.)

[Alexir]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1316551879' post='799694']
My man well written but missing facts, The fact is he is still doing some of the same things he has done in years past not to be considered elite. When you turn on game tape of this guy you are left scratching your head. Holds the ball, stares down receivers and i dont know how he got the nickname Joe cool because after a few hits he is rattled. Put your stock in that.
[/quote]

I'll play ball with you because I too do not think Flacco is elite but I disagree with you saying he stares down the receivers and holds on to the ball too long.

IF THERE IS NO ONE OPEN WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE HIM TO DO WITH THE BALL?!?!

He is staring down receivers because he needs Someone to get open from their man coverage, he has to hold on to the ball because he can't throw and catch it himself and "Joe Cool" gets rattled? Dude takes hit after hit and never stays down. You are just hating on the QB when you should be hating on the receivers, offensive line, offensive coordinator, etc.

What about Ray Rice? Rice sucked that game! Why don't you talk about him or the other 9 guys on offense who didn't show up to play?

We will bounce back this week and I am excited to see Doss and Torrey get some action.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1316552346' post='799716']

I'll play ball with you because I too do not think Flacco is elite but I disagree with you saying he stares down the receivers and holds on to the ball too long.

IF THERE IS NO ONE OPEN WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE HIM TO DO WITH THE BALL?!?!

He is staring down receivers because he needs Someone to get open from their man coverage, he has to hold on to the ball because he can't throw and catch it himself and "Joe Cool" gets rattled? Dude takes hit after hit and never stays down. You are just hating on the QB when you should be hating on the receivers, offensive line, offensive coordinator, etc.

What about Ray Rice? Rice sucked that game! Why don't you talk about him or the other 9 guys on offense who didn't show up to play?

We will bounce back this week and I am excited to see Doss and Torrey get some action.
[/quote]
First question = RUN
Rice scored and gave the team hope. Keeping Joe cools numbers respectable in the process. The Check down and screen play king

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1316552346' post='799716']

I'll play ball with you because I too do not think Flacco is elite but I disagree with you saying he stares down the receivers and holds on to the ball too long.

IF THERE IS NO ONE OPEN WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE HIM TO DO WITH THE BALL?!?!

He is staring down receivers because he needs Someone to get open from their man coverage, he has to hold on to the ball because he can't throw and catch it himself and "Joe Cool" gets rattled? Dude takes hit after hit and never stays down. You are just hating on the QB when you should be hating on the receivers, offensive line, offensive coordinator, etc.

What about Ray Rice? Rice sucked that game! Why don't you talk about him or the other 9 guys on offense who didn't show up to play?

We will bounce back this week and I am excited to see Doss and Torrey get some action.
[/quote]
I have noticed on many occasions he has a chance to get out of the pocket to avoid the sack but stays in there instead..he appears to have some ability to run...just a thought.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1316552332' post='799715']
Blex what makes you a Pro? Have you ever even played football? High school, or otherwise, you internet guys are  funny as can be ignorant this and that ( play then talk.)
[/quote]
Why are you assuming someone hasnt played football again? Why is that your M.O.?

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1316552835' post='799729']
Why are you assuming someone hasnt played football again? Why is that your M.O.?
[/quote]
Sometimes it is necessary to let them know who they are talking to. If i assumed incorrectly im sure he will straighten that out. Because these guys play Madden at home they assume they know everything about the game. Most of them have never even seen a playbook, and that drives me crazy. Just really fed up with the calling comments ignorant that seem to sneak by the Mods weekly. Just use the negative rep button if you don't agree no need for the extra.

[Blex64]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1316552332' post='799715']
Blex what makes you a Pro? Have you ever even played football? High school, or otherwise, you internet guys are funny as can be ignorant this and that ( play then talk.)
[/quote]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi[/url]

Two logical errors at once! You go girl!

Jamie Dukes was an NFL player and I think this board can pretty much agree that his opinion is worthless.

That being said, you draw irrelevant conclusions from just about everything and you don't seem to understand that there are 22 starters and about 50 players on every football team, let alone possess the ability to analyze those players actions effectively. The biggest example jumping to mind is you saying every other post that he stared down receivers all day Sunday.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Most do not categorize Flacco as "ELITE", including myself! But so what! The "Elites" such as P.Manning, T.Brady, D.Brees ect. ect. were watching the superbowl at home last yr. You don't have to be "Elite" look at Rothlessbooger. Anyways point being Flacco is our QB who has taken us to three straight playoff runs, gave us three yrs with winning records, he wins really ugly sometimes but if the W's keep coming that's what matters. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]

[Mick0311]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1316551879' post='799694']
My man well written but missing facts, The fact is he is still doing some of the same things he has done in years past not to be considered elite. When you turn on game tape of this guy you are left scratching your head. Holds the ball, stares down receivers and i dont know how he got the nickname Joe cool because after a few hits he is rattled. Put your stock in that.
[/quote]


I may be missing those, but I recognize their existence. I just don't think they are enough to count the man out of the progressing argument. He is getting better, and I never expected him to be "elite" after three years. The list of QBs that reach "elite" after 3 years is extremely short.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1316552515' post='799722']
First question = RUN
Rice scored and gave the team hope. Keeping Joe cools numbers respectable in the process. The Check down and screen play king
[/quote]


That's odd considering that the coach just said that we ran more 9-routes than pretty much every team in the league last year. Check down and screen play king. I guess the coach probably never played football though.

[Marc2k6]

[quote name='jt3751' timestamp='1316379863' post='796760']

Not really a stretch. We have a long, contentious history with the Titans. Add Ray turning George into a pussycat, McNair coming to us, Chris Johnson, etc., etc., etc...........
[/quote]
AFC Central! When was the last time the Titans had to beat the Ravens to win their division? The history is what it is, great history but at this point in history the Ravens are not the Titans(steelers)!

[ratedr]

RBates is the most obsessive Flacco hater I've ever seen. You know it's bad when I'm saying it's too much.

[ratedr]

[quote name='Marc2k6' timestamp='1316559418' post='799845']
AFC Central! When was the last time the Titans had to beat the Ravens to win their division? The history is what it is, great history but at this point in history the Ravens are not the Titans(steelers)!
[/quote]
Hasselbeck was quoted saying that Munchiak rehashed the rivalry in the locker room to get the team fired up.

[Marc2k6]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1316559759' post='799850']
Hasselbeck was quoted saying that Munchiak rehashed the rivalry in the locker room to get the team fired up.
[/quote]
So what is it a every other year maybe in the playoffs rivalry!? LMAO!

[ratedr]

[quote name='Marc2k6' timestamp='1316559986' post='799853']
So what is it a every other year maybe in the playoffs rivalry!? LMAO!
[/quote]
I think they were just still mad about that 2009 game lol.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1316551879' post='799694']
My man well written but missing facts, The fact is he is still doing some of the same things he has done in years past not to be considered elite. When you turn on game tape of this guy you are left scratching your head. Holds the ball, stares down receivers and i dont know how he got the nickname Joe cool because after a few hits he is rattled. Put your stock in that.
[/quote]

How many years did Rodgers sit before he came onto the scene??

Fact 1.) Joe has won more games than any other QB in history in this time span.
Fact 2.) He has one a playoff game in his first 3 years, no other QB in history can say that.
Fact 3.) He has had make shift lines all but one year of his career.
Fact 4.) he has had the slowest receiving corps in the league foe 3 years (When Boldin comes in and is your fastest guy you have issues.)
Fact 5.) He has a less that impressive OC (that is being generous in my opinion, but I can compromise)
Fact 6.) he has had zero stability in the learning process, between hue Jackson, Jim Zorn, and now Cam Cameron how much can he retain.)
Fact 7.) We have had 2 of the toughest teams in the league against QB's for 3 years (Cinci and Pit)
Fact 8.) He has shown incredible improvement ( the numbers say that, not me)
Fact 9.) He was second last year in accuracy for shots down field (blows the screen and dump off king out of the water.)
Fact 10.) He is the winningest QB we have ever had.

Just a few things to think about.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316560592' post='799862']

How many years did Rodgers sit before he came onto the scene??

Fact 1.) Joe has won more games than any other QB in history in this time span.
Fact 2.) He has one a playoff game in his first 3 years, no other QB in history can say that.
Fact 3.) He has had make shift lines all but one year of his career.
Fact 4.) he has had the slowest receiving corps in the league foe 3 years (When Boldin comes in and is your fastest guy you have issues.)
Fact 5.) He has a less that impressive OC (that is being generous in my opinion, but I can compromise)
Fact 6.) he has had zero stability in the learning process, between hue Jackson, Jim Zorn, and now Cam Cameron how much can he retain.)
Fact 7.) We have had 2 of the toughest teams in the league against QB's for 3 years (Cinci and Pit)
Fact 8.) He has shown incredible improvement ( the numbers say that, not me)
Fact 9.) He was second last year in accuracy for shots down field (blows the screen and dump off king out of the water.)
Fact 10.) He is the winningest QB we have ever had.

Just a few things to think about.
[/quote]

Great post! But I'm afraid some are of the opinion that a QB has to be perfect to be a success.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='jt3751' timestamp='1316561220' post='799868']

Great post! But I'm afraid some are of the opinion that a[b] QB has to be perfect to be a success.[/b]
[/quote]
Well that sucks because in the last 70 years tehre have only been 35 perfect passer rating's, and only 20 in the last 25.
We could be waiting a while.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1316553356' post='799743']

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi"]http://en.wikipedia....noratio_elenchi[/url]

Two logical errors at once! You go girl!

Jamie Dukes was an NFL player and I think this board can pretty much agree that his opinion is worthless.

That being said, you draw irrelevant conclusions from just about everything and you don't seem to understand that there are 22 starters and about 50 players on every football team, let alone possess the ability to analyze those players actions effectively. The biggest example jumping to mind is you saying every other post that he stared down receivers all day Sunday.
[/quote]
Listen to Harbaugh's presser on why we lost case closed

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Mick0311' timestamp='1316557541' post='799817']


I may be missing those, but I recognize their existence. I just don't think they are enough to count the man out of the progressing argument. He is getting better, and I never expected him to be "elite" after three years. The list of QBs that reach "elite" after 3 years is extremely short.
[/quote]
We'll now, that i can agree with.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Mick0311' timestamp='1316557769' post='799819']


That's odd considering that the coach just said that we ran more 9-routes than pretty much every team in the league last year. Check down and screen play king. I guess the coach probably never played football though.
[/quote]
Doesn't mean that we converted more 9 routes than any other team in the league.

Act like Joe doesn't use his running back more in the passing game than any other Qb in football. Ray Rice after two games might be the leading receiver on the team.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1316560592' post='799862']

How many years did Rodgers sit before he came onto the scene??

Fact 1.) Joe has won more games than any other QB in history in this time span.
Fact 2.) He has one a playoff game in his first 3 years, no other QB in history can say that.
Fact 3.) He has had make shift lines all but one year of his career.
Fact 4.) he has had the slowest receiving corps in the league foe 3 years (When Boldin comes in and is your fastest guy you have issues.)
Fact 5.) He has a less that impressive OC (that is being generous in my opinion, but I can compromise)
Fact 6.) he has had zero stability in the learning process, between hue Jackson, Jim Zorn, and now Cam Cameron how much can he retain.)
Fact 7.) We have had 2 of the toughest teams in the league against QB's for 3 years (Cinci and Pit)
Fact 8.) He has shown incredible improvement ( the numbers say that, not me)
Fact 9.) He was second last year in accuracy for shots down field (blows the screen and dump off king out of the water.)
Fact 10.) He is the winningest QB we have ever had.

Just a few things to think about.
[/quote]

He sat behind Brett Favre.........no surprise there

1. Great defense

2. see number one.

3. Every year there are new players. No fault there on Joe's behalf, but this is the National Football league everybody can play.

4. Augmentative (Forty times, and field speed are different).

5. The offensive coordinator looked ok in the progression of Phillip Rivers.

6. No need to comment that is life at this level. Still only one coordinator not sure where you are going here.

7 None else seems to have a problem with Cinci. Ill concede to the fact that Pittsburgh is tough.

8. Improvement is stringing together good games, again he has not had a great game in his career (This i can deal with). But the inconsistency at the Qb position makes one wonder.

9. For being so accurate on the deep ball it has not translated into many big games for the second most accurate deep ball thrower in football has it. Just to be accurate Joe has thrown and completed 40 passes of 20+ yards good for 16th in the league, and 7 passes for 40+ good for 17th in the league. Listening to Harbaugh's presser can be a little misleading. He meant well though (Joe has thrown more nine routes than any team in the league with the second highest completion percentage. Great then he should throw more because judging by the numbers on the deep balls only, that is middle of the pack.

10. That is not saying much, our quarterbacks have been old or terrible. Before he got sick we where discussing starting Troy Smith. cmon man.

[lowrider]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1316713002' post='801091']

He sat behind Brett Favre.........no surprise there

1. Great defense

2. see number one.

3. Every year there are new players. No fault there on Joe's behalf, but this is the National Football league everybody can play.

4. Augmentative (Forty times, and field speed are different).

5. The offensive coordinator looked ok in the progression of Phillip Rivers.

6. No need to comment that is life at this level. Still only one coordinator not sure where you are going here.

7 None else seems to have a problem with Cinci. Ill concede to the fact that Pittsburgh is tough.

8. Improvement is stringing together good games, again he has not had a great game in his career (This i can deal with). But the inconsistency at the Qb position makes one wonder.

9. For being so accurate on the deep ball it has not translated into many big games for the second most accurate deep ball thrower in football has it. Just to be accurate Joe has thrown and completed 40 passes of 20+ yards good for 16th in the league, and 7 passes for 40+ good for 17th in the league. Listening to Harbaugh's presser can be a little misleading. He meant well though (Joe has thrown more nine routes than any team in the league with the second highest completion percentage. Great then he should throw more because judging by the numbers on the deep balls only, that is middle of the pack.

10. That is not saying much, our quarterbacks have been old or terrible. Before he got sick we where discussing starting Troy Smith. cmon man.
[/quote]
1. Wait the same great defense that was ranked 21st last year in pass defense and struggled with getting turnovers and pressure on the qb? Now don't get me wrong it is still a great defense, but definitely not what it used to be. And Tennessee definitely exposed that. It's not the same defense that any qb can just ride anymore

3. I agree that Flacco needs to overcome offensive line problems, but Flacco is the one of the most sacked qbs in the league the past couple years. Partly his fault because he doesn't deliver the ball fast enough but definitely some fault goes to the blame of the offensive line. Especially when you look at Tom Brady and Drew Brees and they are so successful because they have all day in the pocket which Flacco doesn't have

4. There hasn't been any explosive deep threats. And Lee Evans is hurt now. Housh and Mason were always possession guys especially late in their career. Boldin is good, but doesn't stretch the field.

5 and 6 I don't disagree with you

7. Cinci was just a bad matchup with us. Sometimes teams just matchup badly with other teams. Like how Indy was a bad matchup with say a Jacksonville or Tennessee. Those running games always seemed to give the Colts problems.

8. After week 2 last year, I believe, Flacco had the number two passer rating in the league. He is consistent. People don't give him credit when he is. If he wasn't consistent then we wouldn't have made the playoffs 3 years in a row.

9. I think the Wr's, the line, and Flacco are all to blame for the problems to blame for the lack of deep throws. We don't have a consistent deep threat. Its a problem. The line doesn't give Flacco the time that he needs. But also there have been opportunities that Flacco has missed this year.

10. Yeah I agree with you

The Ravens offense is a solid offense. It doesn't have all the weapons that the Saints or Packers have. But then again we have a better defense than they have. Ozzie built this team to be a solid unit and not to be unbalanced. For this reason our expectations of Flacco need to be different than the expectations set for the top 5 qb's in the league. Flacco isn't that caliber of qb in my mind. But I think his potential is definitely top ten. He will make another step this year to show that he can be the consistent leader of this team and that we can win with him. The Ravens unit isn't powered (at least at this time) to be that high scoring offense. And I think that is a misconception that people have about it, and Flacco gets blamed for it. When he doesn't have the WR's and explosive players that many offenses do. Its easy to get upset and blame Flacco for one bad game that the Ravens had as a unit. But over an entire season, one game does not show the whole picture of one player.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1316710906' post='801051']
Doesn't mean that we converted more 9 routes than any other team in the league.

Act like Joe doesn't use his running back more in the passing game than any other Qb in football. Ray Rice after two games might be the leading receiver on the team.
[/quote]


Talking about conversions is comparing apples to oranges. You called him the "Check down and screen play king" which implies a lack of attempts, not completions. If you check down, you didn't throw deep, which was your implication. Yes, he uses his RB quite a bit more than most, if not all, but if you don't think much of that is schemed, then you must have never played football as you would say. You get the ball to your playmakers, and Rice IS our playmaker, and perhaps the best receiving back in the league. That is schemed for a lot of the time, not just a checkdown.

You've got to stop with these strawman arguments, we are all on the same team here, and I think that is why you are rubbing a lot of people wrong here. I never acted like Joe doesn't use his RB a lot in the passing game. Not meant as a personal attack btw, just an observation.